Man Citys Downfalls

Carcharodon

There has been some major changes at Man City since 2008 and it was inevitable that the club would undergo some scrutiny from footballing fans due to such an influx of wealth.
For me, I had no problem with this but what I have had a problem with is the way in which they have gone about their business in this short period of time.
Some may say there is no difference to what Man City are doing to what Chelsea did, there is an argument for that but for me Man city seem to have taken it to a different level as such and seem to lack any real knowledge of how a club works from the bottom up.
I feel sorry for the fans in some respects as these loyal supporters must take issue at the way players like Dunne, no matter what success is achieved, things like this must take issue with people.

I understand that clubs need to be run like a business but on the flip side, clubs are the souls of communities and it seems that Man City is lacking one at this moment.

If we take Chelsea as an example, they did bring in a lot of players initially but the rest was built over time with a strong manager at the realm.
It seem like Man City are just continuously buying in players without consideration for team building.
Since 2008 players like Jo, Bellamy, Given, Robinho, Ben Haim, Bridge, Lescott, Santa Cruz that have been recently purchased now have very uncertain futures. Former Man City players of the season Dunne and Ireland are either gone or are going.
Mark Hughes was shown the door for the glamorous Mancini.
I believe players are only going to be motivated by money in coming to City, Viera was a rather particular signing and now Balotelli, if people think Bellamy is trouble, wait and see for this guy.....

I have always liked Man City and their fans but it does seem the club is a bit lost in some ways.
I am not bitter or anything like that, it seems Man City have need to find a better way of doing business.

JohnnyRyan99

Am i the only one fed up with the numerous City threads??!?!

I'm listening

What's happening at City is a joke.... You can spend all the money in the world but it doesn't get you a solid team, it gets you 11 players playing on their own team, no passion just money (even though seems to be happening in most cases in the PL :mad:)

With Milner they will have 39 players and are allowed 25....funny really

ffs, there's only 1 game played of the season so far.

yahoo_moe

Carcharodon wrote: »

for me Man city seem to have taken it to a different level as such and seem to lack any real knowledge of how a club works from the bottom up.

Do you have this knowledge? I sure as hell don't so I'm not really in a position to judge. But what I can assess is their players - and I don't think there's any doubt that every transfer window that goes by gives them a stronger-looking squad with better players.

Chelsea had an excellent 'keeper in Cudicini and still replaced him with Cech. Duff was likewise moved on despite some good service, Hasselbaink and Gudjohnsen too. It's not pretty to watch certainly but City aren't doing much differently to my mind.

For me, the problem is that you claim that "clubs are the souls of communities". They're not - they're big businesses.

5starpool

rarnes1 wrote: »

ffs, there's only 1 game played of the season so far.

It has been so bad the last few years I nearly expected keys/gray to ask whether Arsenal/Liverpool/Man City were out of the title race now after drawing their opening game.

blueser

JohnnyRyan99 wrote: »

Am i the only one fed up with the numerous City threads??!?!

As a lifelong (45 years) City fan, born and bred in sunny (Ha!) Manchester, I'm finding it amazing how obsessed with us that fans of other clubs are. When we were s***e (when weren't we, more like!), other clubs' fans didn't mind us. Now we've got a few bob, people hate us. Ah well; c'est la vie!

mike65

Well of course you are hated now!

As for the way the club is being run, well they need a Peter Kenyon type figure. Love or hate him he knows what he is doing (or knew as he has moved on). Right now city are just throwing muck against the wall and seeing what sticks.

Mister men

Hilarious stuff. Man Utd where by far the richest club in England for donkey's years and won everything in sight because of having the wonga to buy the top talent and now City and recently Chelsea have that money everyone in complaining. Suddenly it's "disgusting" to be the richest club in the land. Also all this "soul of the community" stuff does'nt and has'nt existed for at least 20 years.

I'm listening

mike65 wrote: »

Right now city are just throwing muck against the wall and seeing what sticks.

Couldn't put it better

Cypher_sounds

mike65 wrote: »

Right now city are just throwing muck against the wall and seeing what sticks.

Bellamy was sticky muck last season, but still not sticking, whats the problem with that muck, too dirty?

Lukker-

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Bellamy was sticky muck last season, but still not sticking, whats the problem with that muck, too dirty?

Yeah and it smells like shít.

Helix

The community comment is a bit wide of the mark given the money the new owners have pumped into the local area in non football related ways

Kiwi_knock

Man City have made a target of themselves due to their reckless spending during these harsh financial times. While other clubs have cut down on spending, Man City have been the exact opposite and sent huge amounts of money. While other owners and boards have been miserly with money these last few years, the City owners have continued to plow huge amounts of money into the club. So fans look on with a bit of envy with the high levels of spending. I do not bemoan the spending power, if they have the money let them spend it, what I do not like is the high turnover of players. I think with such a high hopes of Europe, players have to make an automatic impact on the team. And even if you make that impact your place is still vulnerable. It is a worrying element in the game when your place is so insecure.

Carcharodon

rarnes1 wrote: »

ffs, there's only 1 game played of the season so far.

Well, my point actually dates back to 2008 and is not just based on this season, I think maybe some of the recent acquisitions and decisions have highlighted what is wrong with how some aspects are being run.

I would have to disagree with people thinking clubs are not massive parts of the community, because at the end of the day, if the money goes and things go bad, it will be the surrounding community and fans that will keep the club going.

I don't hate Man City, I just hate the way it is being run. It gives the club a poor image in my opinion.
Maybe it is a fundamental problem with football but Man City seem to be highlighting it.

Ush1

I think there is a long way to go but on the face of things, the team looks unbalanced. I'm unsure about what Mancinis plan really is.

Warper

This whole thing that money doesnt buy success is total bull. Of course it does. Since the Sheikhs took over, City have become better and better and thats a fact. This year is going to be their best season in donkeys years. Me thinks the other established teams and their fans are just plain jealous of the resources City have compared to their own. Plus the whole notion that clubs represent the people has been blown out of the water ever since the bigger clubs sold their souls and floated on the Stock Exchange.

astrofool

I think it's hilarious. It's a crazily expensive squad, but, to steal a Jamie Redknapp'ism, it's full of "top top" players, rather than great players. Players who weren't really making it elsewhere, and are looking for a large pay packet.

Gareth f*cking Barry, what were they thinking. Toure is about the only player I'd really rate (Adebayor as well, if he re-captures his Arse form), Johnson also has potential.

Their full squad list is funny: http://eurorivals.net/squad/man-city.html

flahavaj

I think City's downfall is the manager and his over-cautiousness. You just don't need de Jong, Toure and Barry in central midfield- itsover-defensive and lacking in creativity. He could well be sacked by mid-season, leaving City looking for their fourth manager in three seasons.

Ush1

astrofool wrote: »

I think it's hilarious. It's a crazily expensive squad, but, to steal a Jamie Redknapp'ism, it's full of "top top" players, rather than great players. Players who weren't really making it elsewhere, and are looking for a large pay packet.

Gareth f*cking Barry, what were they thinking. Toure is about the only player I'd really rate (Adebayor as well, if he re-captures his Arse form), Johnson also has potential.

Their full squad list is funny: http://eurorivals.net/squad/man-city.html

Tevez? De Jong?

brayblue24

JohnnyRyan99 wrote: »

Am i the only one fed up with the numerous City threads??!?!

Maybe you should start a new thread and find out:D

astrofool

Ush1 wrote: »

Tevez? De Jong?

Not a big Tevez fan, he was the focal point of their attack most of the season, so you'd expect goals, good player, plenty of work ethic, but never really seen him take a game by the scruff of the neck.

I thought the review of the dutch team describing it as 3 grand masters with 7 piano movers just about summed up De Jong

They're a good team, but if there was a way to spend 100's of millions of pounds and end up with a 'meh' squad, City have done it.

Ush1

astrofool wrote: »

Not a big Tevez fan, he was the focal point of their attack most of the season, so you'd expect goals, good player, plenty of work ethic, but never really seen him take a game by the scruff of the neck.

I thought the review of the dutch team describing it as 3 grand masters with 7 piano movers just about summed up De Jong

They're a good team, but if there was a way to spend 100's of millions of pounds and end up with a 'meh' squad, City have done it.

I agree with most of that but I do think they have got a sprinkling of top drawer players.

Lots and lots of meh with Lescott, Viera, Barry etc...but I think if I was to describe Tevez with a sound byte, it would be takes the game by the scruff of the neck. He was there main man in alot of games, particurlarly against Man. United.

De Jong is more artisan than artist, but he certainly can move a piano!:pac:

L'prof

Carcharodon wrote: »

Man Citys Downfalls

Thought you meant something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5o42F5B0GE

Johner

Ush1 wrote: »

I think there is a long way to go but on the face of things, the team looks unbalanced. I'm unsure about what Mancinis plan really is.

3 weeks he says it will take to gel.

Pfft didn't take the new players at Blackpool three weeks to gel now did it. :cool:

Lukker-

L'prof wrote: »

Thought you meant something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5o42F5B0GE

Haha, thats exactly what I expected.

Carcharodon

A previous poster hit the nail on the head when he said they are just throwing mud at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Instead of just buying a few core players and letting the manager work with them and gradually build on that team.

What was wrong with Dunne ? Not glamorous enough for them, did city fans have any grievance with that ?

One has to question the players now going there, is there any reason other than money to go there, vast amount of signings seem to be on the outside looking in now.

Xavi6

Carcharodon wrote: »

Well, my point actually dates back to 2008 and is not just based on this season, I think maybe some of the recent acquisitions and decisions have highlighted what is wrong with how some aspects are being run.

I would have to disagree with people thinking clubs are not massive parts of the community, because at the end of the day, if the money goes and things go bad, it will be the surrounding community and fans that will keep the club going.

I don't hate Man City, I just hate the way it is being run. It gives the club a poor image in my opinion.
Maybe it is a fundamental problem with football but Man City seem to be highlighting it.

If you really knew anything about City currently you would know that things have never been better for the fans or the community.

Transfers aside, as they can be debated, the club is being run superbly.

Xavi6

astrofool wrote: »

Not a big Tevez fan, he was the focal point of their attack most of the season, so you'd expect goals, good player, plenty of work ethic, but never really seen him take a game by the scruff of the neck.

Out of interest how many full City games did you watch last season?

Off the top of my head I'll offer Chelsea away, Wigan at home and Blackburn at home as three games to counter your above point.

Carcharodon

Xavi6 wrote: »

If you really knew anything about City currently you would know that things have never been better for the fans or the community.

Transfers aside, as they can be debated, the club is being run superbly.

I can hold my hands up and say I am wrong in that respect. maybe I am more concerned about their image than City fans are, not that they should be, it just seems from the outside that it is purely money being thrown around without much substance.

I still think the way they are doing business on the transfer side of things is rather outragous and not good for the game, call me naive or lame
but that is what I think

JohnnyRyan99

Carcharodon wrote: »

I can hold my hands up and say I am wrong in that respect. maybe I am more concerned about their image than City fans are, not that they should be, it just seems from the outside that it is purely money being thrown around without much substance.

I still think the way they are doing business on the transfer side of things is rather outragous and not good for the game, call me naive or lame
but that is what I think

Now dont get me wrong.. I dont believe City are a terrific team as things stand.. Its obvious we havent clicked... The players seem alien to one another and we just dont have that fluidity needed to really cause big teams trouble.... But u forget before last year we were beaten 8-1 by MIDDLESBROUGH!! For Christ sake and finished in mid table mediocraty... Last year we came within 1 game of The Champs League... Not only this but people are chastising us for the recent Spurs game.... We lost that fixture 3-0 last year!! I no we easily could of lost, but we didnt, we were kicked off the field for 45 minutes without doubt, but last year we were anihalated for 90 minutes... City are making mistakes and there has been hits and misses but we are improving... Maybe not as much as we should be for money spent, But we're in a major transition stage for City at the moment and im sure there will be many more mistakes.... People seem to forget this is all new for City we havent been tryin for Champs League football for the last 15 years!

Sirsok

Mister men wrote: »

Hilarious stuff. Man Utd where by far the richest club in England for donkey's years and won everything in sight because of having the wonga to buy the top talent and now City and recently Chelsea have that money everyone in complaining. Suddenly it's "disgusting" to be the richest club in the land. Also all this "soul of the community" stuff does'nt and has'nt existed for at least 20 years.

Man u became such a rich club due to being so succesfull. The Premier League came along and pumped more money into all the clubs, with of the most money goin to the champions of the league.....so the view is man u have earned their money and succes where as city and chelsea haven?

homerjay2005

the thread title is misleading. do they not have to go up, before the fall down?

JohnnyRyan99

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the thread title is misleading. do they not have to go up, before the fall down?

Hardy harr harr!!:mad:

Carcharodon

JohnnyRyan99 wrote: »

Now dont get me wrong.. I dont believe City are a terrific team as things stand.. Its obvious we havent clicked... The players seem alien to one another and we just dont have that fluidity needed to really cause big teams trouble.... But u forget before last year we were beaten 8-1 by MIDDLESBROUGH!! For Christ sake and finished in mid table mediocraty... Last year we came within 1 game of The Champs League... Not only this but people are chastising us for the recent Spurs game.... We lost that fixture 3-0 last year!! I no we easily could of lost, but we didnt, we were kicked off the field for 45 minutes without doubt, but last year we were anihalated for 90 minutes... City are making mistakes and there has been hits and misses but we are improving... Maybe not as much as we should be for money spent, But we're in a major transition stage for City at the moment and im sure there will be many more mistakes.... People seem to forget this is all new for City we havent been tryin for Champs League football for the last 15 years!

All good valid points and you are spot on in what you say but do City fans not feel like it could be a continuous cycle of mistakes.
I wonder how much real influence Mancini has over transfers, it kind of baffles me as to some of the decisions being made.
I am sure City will improve and the transfer deadline will do them the world of good but come Jan will it start again when they potentially are in fifth or sixth.

Xavi6

Carcharodon wrote: »

All good valid points and you are spot on in what you say but do City fans not feel like it could be a continuous cycle of mistakes.

Absolutely but give me a Robinho type mistake over a Lee Bradbury one any day.

Third_Echelon

I'd agree with most of the sentiments in the posts so far about City... and to be honest, what is happening to city is my biggest fear about Sheikh/Abramovich type owners coming into clubs. It's now their toy and they are running it their way... They buy the players and give them to the manager (not always the case though)..

Call me old fashioned, but the manager is the only person that should decide on what players he needs or wants... at city.. i just wonder how many of the transfers are manager sanctioned vs 'board' sanctioned etc..

It will take the team a while to gel as we have seen for city throughout pre-season and the first game against spurs. The 3 defensively minded midfield players is overkill.. At most you play 2. 1 is really all you need.. and they are losing Stephen Ireland (not the only reason of course) because of this. He would be perfect in that team sitting in beside/in front of Yaya Toure...

One thing I suppose is that other premier league clubs will benefit from cut price players going out the exit door of man city to boost their squads.

Optimalprimerib

I have a feeling the rotating door policy at city and the " football community" nonsense is the new "but rafa spent this much compared to" theme on this forum. Let me know how it pans out im off to find or create a grass growing forum

Gillington

Just leave us be will ya's! We've suffered last day relegations,yo-yo club status with us going down to the old Second Division,hammering's by our bitterest rivals,shíte players,shíte managers,8-1 thrashings,our goalkeeper given an outfield jersey and put up front ,Sven Goran Eriksson/Thaksin Shinawatra etc etc etc and all this in the last 20 years!!

Let us be,if we implode and find ourselves the new Leeds United then come back and laugh at us until then,enjoy the soap opera!

Boskowski

While they're driving up the prices and the crazy wage spiral which is certainly not a good thing overall they also shake things up a bit. Premiership has gone a bit stale with the same teams again and again playing for the top spots. I know it's the same in the most leagues that the sames team continue to dominate but look at this forum even - all we ever talk about is who makes fourth spot as the top three are more or less predetermined. A bit of fresh air is needed.

While I'd prefer to have a team of refreshing young newcomers to come out of nowhere to take the league by storm in todays game that is just not going to happen and if it was that team would be flogged to pieces in year two anyway by the rich clubs. Today the only way to break into the top spots seems to be by having loads of money. And the league is also all about money. And really we do love it don't we? We want our Sky+ and Super Sunday and 3D pubs and Ronaldo crashing 300k cars and Ashley shagging 1000k hookers and all the hype and all that. Because it's exciting. But its on the back of big time commercialism and we cant have it both ways. And secretly we would also love to have that kind of money in our own club and be talking about Kaka and Balotelli and godknowswho.

So leave'em alone and let them enjoy this. I think they're alright and they deserve a good spell as much as any other team.

PHB

I think Mancini is doing what has to be done. Right now, he has been buying an awful lot of players who might have made it in top 3 teams, but didn't or havent' had a chance yet.

Barry could have easily gone to Liverpool (a few years ago ), Boeteng could have easily gone to Chelsea, Silva could have gone to any top 3 team at least on a squad level, Adebayour used to play for Arsenal, as did Toure, Yaya Toure played for Barca, Balotelli played for Inter, Robinho played for Madrid.

Bellamy, Santa Cruz, Jo, etc. were never in that class imo.
They spent a ****load of money on buying ****e player for a bit, especially with hughes in charge. Now they've got Mancini. He can attract a much higher quality. So he's attracting them.

These guys will form the core of the squad for years to come. He will most likely ship off a lot of bad buys, i.e. not good enough for a PL competing team, like Bellamy etc. As such, it will be a big old waste of money, but he doesn't care, money isn't important.
Once September 1st hits, he'll have the core of his squad. It will take about a month imo, for a team to come out of that. However come October, November, I fully expect them to start hitting some form. If that form can get them 4th place, it will allow them to push on next season and buy the next Torres or the next Aguero. From that, they will then be able to compete for the league. Frankly, I don't really see a better transfer plan than the one I think that they are pursuing. The only thing that I can hope for is that they don't get 4th, panic, fire Mancini, and then the new manager does a similar thing that what Mancini is doing. Come on Spurs, build up a solid lead in the first two months while they are still struggling.

Keano

The only thing that I can hope for is that they don't get 4th, panic, fire Mancini

That's a given if they don't finish in the top 4. He won't be there next season if they fail.

SeanKev

Last season we bought many players, we were told that our team wouldn't gel, we wouldn't play well together because we have mercenaries. etc.

We missed out on Champion League football by one game. That is improvement. That speaks for itself.

Our highest premier league finish. We're not a huge team, never have been but we have dreams, and I for one would love to see a team sabotage the top 4 and fight for the title. The added bonus is that after all the years of misery, it's my club that will be doing it. I have never put down Chelsea for their spending because I would of loved to be in their situation, now I am.

Who won the league last season? Hmm.

I'm going to Manchester on monday and I have true belief that we can win the game, oh how times have changed.

eagle eye

SeanKev wrote: »

Last season we bought many players, we were told that our team wouldn't gel, we wouldn't play well together because we have mercenaries. etc.

We missed out on Champion League football by one game. That is improvement. That speaks for itself.

Our highest premier league finish. We're not a huge team, never have been but we have dreams, and I for one would love to see a team sabotage the top 4 and fight for the title. The added bonus is that after all the years of misery, it's my club that will be doing it. I have never put down Chelsea for their spending because I would of loved to be in their situation, now I am.

Who won the league last season? Hmm.

I'm going to Manchester on monday and I have true belief that we can win the game, oh how times have changed.

Tottenham did it last season.

SeanKev

eagle eye wrote: »

Tottenham did it last season.

Was that a sly dig? I know they did, fair play to them, especially since they spent nothing. :rolleyes: *
But not only qualify for the top 4, compete for the title, which they are far from doing.

Emphasis on the :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:*

Hank Scorpio

City are a disgrace imo

For all the loyalty and committment Ireland and Dunne showed during there duration at the club they get ran out and forgotten about

Stupid Stupid move from Milners pov, he`ll rot on the bench at times and end up at a low league side in a couple of seasons

Id say Irelands value is around 10/12 million so Villa got a great player and also 18 million. Milner worth 30 million quid? lolz.

DazMarz

It will take some time, but eventually a certain formation will click, something will gel and then, by fúck, watch out... Cos if/when City hit upon that killer lineup finally (and I think they were agonisingly close last season), they will be a huge force to be reckoned with:

a) cos they have the financial backing
b) cos they'll have the players
c) cos there's every chance they'll get Champions League football

I also believe that the one and only reason they did not get Kaka (they were, if I remember correctly, offering €100,000,000 to AC Milan and offering Kaka £500,000 per week) was simply due to the fact that they would not be in the Champions League. It was clearly not City not ponying up the readies, or perhaps it was something else... But I'm convinced that if City had been in the CL (or getting into it the following season) when they went for Kaka, they'd have gotten him.

It's when City break the Top 4 and get into the CL, that's when we'll see the greats flocking to them, for the money and the European Football. But until then, it will be difficult.