Newsweek ranks Brian Cowen among world's best leaders

PeterIanStaker

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

No, the govt have their own tame hacks in the Indo/Sindo to shrilly and incoherently defend everything they do, without having to outsource the bullsh!t.

Are you talking about The Independent? Cause if you are, you've clearly never read it..

Liam Byrne

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you talking about The Independent? Cause if you are, you've clearly never read it..

I presume he means the Irish Independent, which would make sense considering this is an Irish site ?

Sykk

I've said it before I'll say it again. Bertie was the one who fúcked up, he left when the place was in the shít and left Cowen with a poisoned chalice.

Cowen is doing a great job, he has made some decisions which HAVE to be made and clearly aren't going to make people happy.

If you think it's his fault we're in this state, you clearly know nothing about economics.

mickydoomsux

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you talking about The Independent? Cause if you are, you've clearly never read it..

Yeah the Indo gets critised a lot on here by people who clearly don't read it. It's actually the most fair and balanced newspaper out there.

Liam Byrne

Sykk wrote: »

I've said it before I'll say it again. Bertie was the one who fúcked up, he left when the place was in the shít and left Cowen with a poisoned chalice.

Cowen is doing a great job, and hasn't really done much but make some decisions which HAVE to be made and clearly aren't going to make people happy.

If you think it's his fault we're in this state, you clearly know nothing about economics.

Interesting, so you're claiming that those who named and shamed him in the recent report on why we're in this state "know nothing about economics" ?

There's no denying that Ahern caused a lot of the issues, but Cowen was Minister for Finance when we started to rely on one-off tax income from house sales for day-to-day income, and should be castigated accordingly.

He was also leader when that secretive banking meeting landed us with an Anglo bailout and NAMA.

He has done some good in improving matters, but it's too little and - more importantly - far too late; if he'd done his job while Minister for Finance then we would be climbing out of a reasonably-sized hole, and not a "journey to the centre of the earth".

Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I presume he means the Irish Independent, which would make sense considering this is an Irish site ?

That's the one I meant.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Yeah the Indo gets critised a lot on here by people who clearly don't read it. It's actually the most fair and balanced newspaper out there.

I prefer reading the irish times but have to read the indo in work.. Much of a muchness but the indo does feel a bit more tabloidy.

Dudess

This "we", collective responsibility lark is just a way of passing the buck by those whose fault it is.

Yakult

Cant wait for a new gov. to come in.
Get all these old overpayed farts out and bring in the new generation thats remotely on our planet.


What I dont get is why they switch current TD's around to different departments. What good is moving someone from the Finance department to health and so on so forth? Just seems retarded to me, like the politics in this country.

PeterIanStaker

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Yeah the Indo gets critised a lot on here by people who clearly don't read it. It's actually the most fair and balanced newspaper out there.

I do read it. Don't buy it, work has it, and yes I think its a pile of tabloid crap. Myers and Quinn in particular. The Times as well I feel has taken a sharp right turn under Kennedy the ex-PD, but thats no suprise.

mikom

Einhard wrote: »

I think most of us are, even those who didn't vote for FF or didn't bother vote at all. The reason the economy is in such a terrible state is because we have consistently shown ourselves to be more concerned about short term self-interest, rather than long term good governance.

Pardon my French, but fuck this "we" business.

Brendog

I agree with newsweek..






Unbeknownst to most people, Brian Cowen lets thousands of homeless people sleep under his bottom lip for warmth

brianthebard

Deleted User wrote: »

Has anyone starved yet? Jesus Christ have a look at the Pakistan floods and try get some perspective on life. Without those cuts and the opening up of credit, we'd be more fuked.

I knew i'd get slated for what's a true statement but it makes me laugh to argue with people who've never even read an economics book.
And i'm being made redundant in two weeks after working in a place for two years. I'm leaving the country in September so yea, I know what recession is.

Credit hasn't opened up, the recapitalisation money has just been horded by the banks to make themselves look better on paper. Well done on being condescending because of your studies though.

Einhard

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So what does that have to do with suggesting that - just as two examples - Dudess and myself have anything to do with it ?

I know I haven't, and given Dudess' reply, it appears that she doesn't either.

I was making the point that far more people than just those who voted for FF have to bear some of the responsibility for the mess we're in. It's vert telling I think that, in 2007, with a recession looming, ALL the main parties announced manifestos which essentially sought to bribe the electorate. Nobody ever gets rewarded in this country for good governance or fiscal prudence, and that's always been the case. Jack Lynch got elected in '79 based on a give away manifesto that we couldn't afford, and Alan Dukes got no electoral reward from the Tallaght Strategy. We all like to go on about how the Scandinavians have such a wonderful system, yet were we to adopt anything like their tax burden, we'd have people in the streets and burning the national ear on Joe Duffy. Perhaps yourself and Dudess are exempt, and other individuals certainly, but the immaturity amongst the Irish electorate goes far deeper than FF voters. The one silver lining to the recessionary cloud may be that people finally cop onto the fact that there's more to good administration than give away budgets and election time bribery. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

No, the govt have their own tame hacks in the Indo/Sindo to shrilly and incoherently defend everything they do, without having to outsource the bullsh!t.

Seriously, did the Indo burn your house down and kill your parents? Your hatred of the group borders on the irrational. There are countless examples of both papers lambasting the government. Didn't the Indo break the Ivor Callelly thing? And the furore over use of the government jet? Hasn't Gene Kerrigan been attacking governments week in and week out for the past 15 years?

Einhard

Dudess wrote: »

This "we", collective responsibility lark is just a way of passing the buck by those whose fault it is.

It's my fault? I'm passing the buck?

mikom

Einhard wrote: »

It's my fault? I'm passing the buck?

Correction. "we" are passing the buck.

Einhard

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

I do read it. Don't buy it, work has it, and yes I think its a pile of tabloid crap. Myers and Quinn in particular. The Times as well I feel has taken a sharp right turn under Kennedy the ex-PD, but thats no suprise.

I like the Indo precisely because I rarely agree with Myers and never with Quinn, but I expect good journalism to make me consider my opinions and stances, and think about why I hold them, rather than slavishly re-inforce them. That's what I like about the Independent group, and why, even though I admire their writers, I don't buy the Times. You see to hold a different opinion, that a newspaper should tell us only what we want to hear. I don't really see the point of that. If I wanted my own opinion confirmed every day, I'd save myself the €2 and just talk to myself in the mirror.

mikemac

Sykk wrote: »

I've said it before I'll say it again. Bertie was the one who fúcked up, he left when the place was in the shít and left Cowen with a poisoned chalice.

Minister of Finance is one of the most important jobs in the country.
Come budget time it probably is the most important.
A lot of problems happened on his watch I'm afraid and if he was on top of his brief and taking advice from his senior civil servants then nothing should be a shock and a plan in place for every scenario, however unexpected.
An example is this Section 21 scheme, clogging up rural villages with ugly estates of houses nobody wants, locals won't buy and left to rot. Worthy of tax breaks? Just one minor example and not even that important compared to others.
To be fair, I do think Section 50 which was to provide modern student accommodation was a good idea and worked well. More good ideas and less bad ones would be great

And it seems the Newsweek is a well known magazine, I never heard of it before this thread

Dudess

Einhard, while I empathise with criticism of FF, I don't have time for people whingeing about them morning, noon and night either - it can be extremely ****ing tedious, especially when a lot of those whingers really flourished during the boom.

But re Independent Newspapers: when Harris got into the Senate, on Bertie's endorsement, it was pretty appalling stuff.

PeterIanStaker

Einhard wrote: »

Seriously, did the Indo burn your house down and kill your parents? Your hatred of the group borders on the irrational. There are countless examples of both papers lambasting the government. Didn't the Indo break the Ivor Callelly thing? And the furore over use of the government jet? Hasn't Gene Kerrigan been attacking governments week in and week out for the past 15 years?

Kerrigan is the "token liberal" - he's like the guy in Aliens saying "kill me, please".

The Callely thing is simply chess tactics - you have to sacrifice a pawn now and then to protect the king. I mean, he's a senator, he's a nonentity.

The government jet is a middle finger to the public. It was reported but has anything been done about it? Nope

And finally I dont "hate" the Indo - they're just **** who to me represent the worst aspects of this little former colony turned Vatican outpost.

So I'll give out about them as often as I like.

PeterIanStaker

Dudess wrote: »

But re Independent Newspapers: when Harris got into the Senate, on Bertie's endorsement, it was pretty appalling stuff.

Indeed, that was just sickening. Mind you the Phoenix had a great take on it
- "Eldery Cork Man Wins Political Lottery"

opinion guy

AnonoBoy wrote: »

How to Troll real life by Newsweek.


Next week........ claiming Coldplay are the ultimate edgy indie band!

Very good young AnonoBoy! Very Good!

Terry wrote: »

Nobody wants to hear it, but PAYE needs to rise.
Slate me all you want, but most of you will only be down about a tenner a week. It needs to be done.

To be honest - PAYE never should have fallen as low as it did in the first place. They should have kept it about 2 cent higher and used that cash to invest in the country. But - would a should a could a not much help now.
I agree with you thou - it should rise a little. Certainly would have been fairer than levee's than only hit a subset of the population

brianthebard

brianthebard wrote: »

Credit hasn't opened up, the recapitalisation money has just been horded by the banks to make themselves look better on paper. Well done on being condescending because of your studies though.

Well done on being wrong. Don't you remember how bad the libor got? It's only better because of the collective efforts of the governments to free up capital.

Dudess

I hate Independent Newspapers passionately - they're reprehensible. Remember the Irish Ferries saga? Bullies of the highest order.

Dudess

Dudess wrote: »

I hate Independent Newspapers passionately - they're reprehensible. Remember the Irish Ferries saga? Bullies of the highest order.

Well then go start a thread about it.

Kepti

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Yeah the Indo gets critised a lot on here by people who clearly don't read it. It's actually the most fair and balanced newspaper out there.

I'd suggest against using the Fox News tag line when defending anythings' integrity.

markesmith

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Yeah the Indo gets critised a lot on here by people who clearly don't read it. It's actually the most fair and balanced newspaper out there.

Are you getting paid for each positive reference to that rag?

enda1

Its easy to raise taxes and slash pay. These are short term countermeasures however and don't solve the core economic and fiscal problems.

A good leader would look where its necessary to examine and tackle the giant problem of public sector reform.

They need to re-examine the role of the public sector. Continue with privatisation of services and increasing competition in the sectors.

There will be large redundancies resultant, but this is unavoidable if you look at the productivity of the groups.

I believe public sector reform is a much higher priority then cutting the dole for example. How a country treats those at a low in their life tells a lot about itself. We should look at creating a more competitive environment for foreign investment and home grown growth. We priced ourselves out of the market and forgot our core strengths.

These topics are what needs to be tackled, not the tax basis.

Fighting Irish

He is a crap leader, he made he buy an over priced house and made me take out huge credit card debt. My life is in tatters because of him. /sarcasm

Einhard

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Kerrigan is the "token liberal" - he's like the guy in Aliens saying "kill me, please".

The Callely thing is simply chess tactics - you have to sacrifice a pawn now and then to protect the king. I mean, he's a senator, he's a nonentity.

The government jet is a middle finger to the public. It was reported but has anything been done about it? Nope

And finally I dont "hate" the Indo - they're just **** who to me represent the worst aspects of this little former colony turned Vatican outpost.

So I'll give out about them as often as I like.

You're perfectly entitled to criticise them as often as you long, and you certainly do, but I'm equally entitled to hold a contrary view and assert that. Every day I read the Indo, or the Sindo, there are articles criticsing the government, or detailing blunder or incident that FF would rather kept covered up. So I don't really understand how they can be portrayed as political stooges.

As for Eoghan Harris' appointment to the Seanad, I think it was a mistake to accept it, and quite often I read his articles with incredulity, but again they make me think and question my own point of view. I don't really see the point of buying a paper just to have your own opinions laid out for you in print. It's why I read david McWilliams and Gene Kerrigan too, and Robert Fisk in the Indo, even though I rarely agree with what they have to say. I'd also point out that Harris is as entitled to his opinion as you, and that they were formed in good faith, and not on the pretext of getting a a Seanad seat.

I think that a lot of the criticism of the Sindo/Indo comes down to nothing more than media snobbery. I'm not saying that's the case with you or Dudess, but several times friends have dismissed both papers, and when I ask why they're of that opinion, they can give no more than the most vague reasons, usually involving Kevin Myers, who, I seem to remember, was once a columnist for the Irish Times.

Anyhoo, probably getting a bit off topic here so I'll leave it at that (which generally means the opposite!!)

Einhard

Kepti wrote: »

I'd suggest against using the Fox News tag line when defending anythings' integrity.

Actaully the "News" part of Fox News is surprisingly fair and balanced. It's the talk shows and the likes of O'Reilly and Hannity you have to look out for.