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Newsweek ranks Brian Cowen among world's best leaders

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    #92
    sesna
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭sesna


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Has anyone starved yet? Jesus Christ have a look at the Pakistan floods and try get some perspective on life. Without those cuts and the opening up of credit, we'd be more fuked.

    I knew i'd get slated for what's a true statement but it makes me laugh to argue with people who've never even read an economics book.
    And i'm being made redundant in two weeks after working in a place for two years. I'm leaving the country in September so yea, I know what recession is.

    My perspective is fine. Is it a bad situation only when people start starving? Is that our new benchmark now?

    Sorry to hear that an economics expert like yourself is being made redunant. Maybe you should try losing some of that arrogance in your next line of employment, whereever that may be.


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    #93
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    Blarney92 wrote: »
    We're getting a lot of international praise. In fact chatting to some guys at work today who reckoned we'd have defaulted if we hadn't put in such tough policies when we did.

    Still along way to go but if our banking sector can recover then we should be ok.

    Think the government made the right calls overall and while no doubt painful are absolutely critical for our financial survival

    The policies shouldn't have needed to be put in place, and then there's the black hole sh1t machine of Anglo!


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    #94
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Fighting Irish wrote: »
    He is a crap leader, he made he buy an over priced house and made me take out huge credit card debt. My life is in tatters because of him. /sarcasm

    Exactly. A lot of people act like their local FF TD marched them into the bank at gunpoint to take out an obviously unserviceable mortgage on a clearly overpriced property or get another credit card to add to the 3 they already had.

    We need to take some personal responsibility for this as well. We were as bad as the government during the Celtic Tiger years. Money was no object because we could just borrow more. We were n-word rich and now we're turning around and blaming anyone we can for our own shortsightedness.


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    #95
    sesna
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭sesna


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Exactly. A lot of people act like their local FF TD marched them into the bank at gunpoint to take out an obviously unserviceable mortgage on a clearly overpriced property or get another credit card to add to the 3 they already had.

    We need to take some personal responsibility for this as well. We were as bad as the government during the Celtic Tiger years. Money was no object because we could just borrow more. We were n-word rich and now we're turning around and blaming anyone we can for our own shortsightedness.

    Luckily I dont have a house, but I do feel sorry for those in negative equity given the government cheerleaded the property bubble for years. Of course now the line is that it's nothing to do with them. See FF Donnie Cassidy in as late as April 2008 telling people there was excellent value out there, and prices would increase again by 30% in 12 months. Alot of closet FF hacks on this thread who cant admit Clowen and Bertie (with his mysterious London School of Economics degree) were at best lazy and incompetent. And of course we're not allowed to criticise Lenihan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RaNqMzVIE0


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    #96
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well done on being wrong. Don't you remember how bad the libor got? It's only better because of the collective efforts of the governments to free up capital.

    You're talking out your hat. I'm doing a PhD and you only have a Degree, so I should know. Have you even written a thesis? pffft.


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    #97
    KrazeeEyezKilla
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭KrazeeEyezKilla


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Exactly. A lot of people act like their local FF TD marched them into the bank at gunpoint to take out an obviously unserviceable mortgage on a clearly overpriced property or get another credit card to add to the 3 they already had.

    We need to take some personal responsibility for this as well. We were as bad as the government during the Celtic Tiger years. Money was no object because we could just borrow more. We were n-word rich and now we're turning around and blaming anyone we can for our own shortsightedness.

    They still cheerleaded the bubble. That isn't an excuse for people who took out big mortgages but the government still got it completely wrong. No-one forced TDs/Senators to claim prices were going to increase. The biggest lack of personal responsibility has come from the government/banks.


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    #98
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sesna wrote: »
    My perspective is fine. Is it a bad situation only when people start starving? Is that our new benchmark now?

    Sorry to hear that an economics expert like yourself is being made redunant. Maybe you should try losing some of that arrogance in your next line of employment, whereever that may be.

    Probably China or Japan. I think i'll keep it just to annoy people like you.


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    #99
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    sesna wrote: »
    Alot of closet FF hacks on this thread who cant admit Clowen and Bertie (with his mysterious London School of Economics degree) were at best lazy and incompetent. And of course we're not allowed to criticise Lenihan.

    You're allowed to criticise whoever you want, and I'd agree with you about the failures of Cowen and Ahern, although I think their greatest sin was in putting the desire to win re-election before the proper administration of the country. Which is worse, in my opinion, than either incompetence or indolence. I think Lenihan however has done a reasonable job under the circumstances.

    And btw, it's not unreasonable to expect people to hold differing points of view on an internet forum. Doing so does not make them "hacks" of one kind or another.


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    #100
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    brianthebard wrote: »
    You're talking out your hat. I'm doing a PhD and you only have a Degree, so I should know. Have you even written a thesis? pffft.

    So anyway, back to the libor since we're talking about credit in the market.. What's your thoughts on what happened it's rate after the crisis began?

    I mean if you're saying credit hasn't loosened up, you must have an opinion on it.


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    #101
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So anyway, back to the libor since we're talking about credit in the market.. What's your thoughts on what happened it's rate after the crisis began?

    I mean if you're saying credit hasn't loosened up, you must have an opinion on it.

    Strawman nonsense, this has nothing to do with whether the Irish banks are hording the recapitalisation money or not.


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    #102
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Strawman nonsense, this has nothing to do with whether the Irish banks are hording the recapitalisation money or not.
    And why would I be talking about that?


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    #103
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And why would I be talking about that?

    Because that's the topic of a post of mine you quoted and said I was wrong, and proceeded to talk nonsense about libor and your precious economics degree.


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    #104
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The very first thing you said in that post I quoted was that credit hadn't loosened up.. Which is where the libor comes in as the clearest indication of availability of credit.
    Anyways i'm tired of this.. I've a headache, a sore throat and i'm arguing shlte with someone online for no reason.


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    #105
    thebigbiffo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭thebigbiffo


    fianna fail are bad m'kay.

    all you people out there with an opinion different from the herd please line up against that red dashed wall over there
    >


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    #106
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The very first thing you said in that post I quoted was that credit hadn't loosened up..
    Anyways i'm tired of this.

    If you're that soft that you can't figure out what banks I'm talking about in a thread about Cowen on an Irish forum then its no wonder you're tired of this. brain drain indeed...


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    #107
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    So anyway....

    Cowen is one of the world's great leaders?

    Nah.

    Doesn't have the guts and appointed a self-destructive Tániste who was minister for EntEmp! (at least he partially fixed that)


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    #108
    thebigbiffo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭thebigbiffo


    brianthebard wrote: »
    If you're that soft that you can't figure out what banks I'm talking about in a thread about Cowen on an Irish forum then its no wonder you're tired of this. brain drain indeed...

    do you have to be so snotty and condesending? every time a thread with a link to government/fianna fail comes up your all over it like a kebab on kerry katona - any chance of showing an even slightly moderate opinion or some level of understanding for other peoples views?

    please note questions are rhetorical


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    #109
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    thebigbiffo wrote: »
    do you have to be so snotty and condesending? every time a thread with a link to government/fianna fail comes up your all over it like a kebab on kerry katona - any chance of showing an even slightly moderate opinion or some level of understanding for other peoples views?

    please note questions are rhetorical

    My posts so far have hardly touched upon FF but rant away there's a good lad, the irony of you asking for a moderate opinion on the government/FF is a laugh.


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    #110
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users Posts: 7,065 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    sesna wrote: »
    Luckily I dont have a house, but I do feel sorry for those in negative equity given the government cheerleaded the property bubble for years. Of course now the line is that it's nothing to do with them. See FF Donnie Cassidy in as late as April 2008 telling people there was excellent value out there, and prices would increase again by 30% in 12 months. Alot of closet FF hacks on this thread who cant admit Clowen and Bertie (with his mysterious London School of Economics degree) were at best lazy and incompetent. And of course we're not allowed to criticise Lenihan.

    So people shouldn't think for themselves?


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    #111
    thebigbiffo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭thebigbiffo


    brianthebard wrote: »
    My posts so far have hardly touched upon FF but rant away there's a good lad, the irony of you asking for a moderate opinion on the government/FF is a laugh.

    i'm on record as saying brian cowen should have resigned

    this was treated by you in the same snotty, derisive manner - so there's no irony, only selective memory on your behalf probably because of my ill advised user name


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    #112
    sesna
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭sesna


    Fighting Irish wrote: »
    So people shouldn't think for themselves?

    Of course people can think for themselves, and should take a certain proportion of the blame. However, one would expect the regulator and Minister for Finance to simply do their jobs, not repeat the mantra that the "fundamentals are sound" Donnie Cassidy style.

    What is a government, regulators etc there for - going round singing in pubs, or eating caviar at Galway races ? Let's not forget the responsibility of media over the past 10 years who were complicit in pushing the same line while receiving vast property supplement revenues.

    The price of my TV licence is controlled by law, so is my rail/CIE ticket. yet the builder mafia could raise the price of a house, by anything they liked from time of booking to signing contract. I knew one couple who had price of their house raised by 24,000 on two separate occasions, total 48,000.

    Its an Irish thing to have a place to live (maybe that does not need to be revised). Its not like betting on a horse which some in FF try to say now, or others who proclaim those that try to own their own home were somehow greedy.

    On Frontline last November, an unfortunate girl was complaining that her apartment in Kildare was built on a flood plain and was swamped.She had invested in it to get a roof over her head. Name of estate was " Waterways". Our esteemed Minister for Environment John Gormley was on the panel also, and what did he say to her- she should have known better than to buy in an estate with a name like that.

    I suppose the unfortunate woman in question was supposed to examine Ord. Survey maps to see if her new home was subject to flooding. Afterall this would be thinking for herself. There is or is supposed to be planning authorites to examine all matters with flooding problems, radon gas, etc. Hardly the job of a young couple who go to an auctioneer to buy a house.


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    #113
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    thebigbiffo wrote: »
    i'm on record as saying brian cowen should have resigned

    this was treated by you in the same snotty, derisive manner - so there's no irony, only selective memory on your behalf probably because of my ill advised user name

    Saying Cowen should have resigned suggests you don't think he should have to any more, and you certainly haven't blamed FF for the collapse of the economy. Sacrifices have to be made to keep the FF machine moving, and just because you made the 'big step' of saying he should have resigned doesn't suddenly make you a moderate voice. Regardless, I'm not bothered that my posts on FF annoy you, in fact I'd feel aggrieved if I thought you read any of my posts related to politics and weren't annoyed.


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    #114
    Calibos
    Registered Users Posts: 7,806 ✭✭✭Calibos


    The recession may have been the Hurricane which Cowen et al had no control over but they at least could have made the house economy out of matchsticks instead of cards. The Canadians weathered the hurricane because they built their house of balsa wood......ok analogy stretched to breaking point :D


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    #115
    thebigbiffo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭thebigbiffo


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Regardless, I'm not bothered that my posts on FF annoy you, in fact I'd feel aggrieved if I thought you read any of my posts related to politics and weren't annoyed.

    dont hurt yourself when you fall off that high horse


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    #116
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    thebigbiffo wrote: »
    dont hurt yourself when you fall off that high horse

    High horse to be an average sized pony following next budget.


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    #117
    ART6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭ART6


    Sykk wrote: »
    I've said it before I'll say it again. Bertie was the one who fúcked up, he left when the place was in the shít and left Cowen with a poisoned chalice.

    Cowen is doing a great job, he has made some decisions which HAVE to be made and clearly aren't going to make people happy.

    If you think it's his fault we're in this state, you clearly know nothing about economics.
    LookingFor wrote: »
    This will go down well locally, I'm sure...

    He's placed in their top 10 'head of the class' world leaders, labelling him 'The Fiscal Taskmaster'.

    http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/16/go-to-the-head-of-the-class/the-fiscal-taskmaster-brian-cowen.html



    Elsewhere, they rank Ireland as the 17th best place in the world to live.

    http://www.newsweek.com/feature/2010/the-world-s-best-countries.html

    Going back to the OP above, we are told the government and particularly Cowen and Lenihan have gained international respect for their swift actions in dealing with the crisis.

    So what have they done? They have ruthlessly cut public sector salaries (well no -- they imposed levies but....).
    They are making unpopular cuts in services, but since they only affect those who don't have the clout to fire back that's OK.
    They have spent billions of taxpayer's money on attempting to save a commercial (ie not retail ) bank that was already insolvent and beyond saving, but it had to be done to avoid the bank's bondholders losing their money (tough s**t - don't invest what you can't afford to lose. Fundamental rule of investment).
    They have increased taxes but they hid them under the guise of environmental protection and will add more claiming the need to reduce the country's dependance on fossil fuels. They will introduce domestic rates as it is appropriate to tax people for something they already own and have paid for with already taxed income.

    But what haven't they done? Well, they haven't got rid of the hundreds of quangos that are absorbing over €13 billion a year (oh, couldn't do that -- good ol' Pat is a friend and my regular partner at our golf club, and I appointed him chairman of ****).
    They haven't sorted out the money sink that the HSE has become, and they didn't even look like doing so when they appointed a professor of paediatrics as the chief executive instead of hiring a top class international business manager.
    They haven't tested their programme for recovery by taking it to the electorate, even at three by-elections that are long overdue.
    They didn't do anything to control the property bubble even when residential property prices were escalating way beyond the potential buyer's ability to pay, and when the evidence of what could happen was readily available from the UK experience in the early 1990s. Instead they revelled in the fact that the Irish growth was the highest in Europe when it was actually based on a mirage.
    They didn't (and haven't) done anything to cut down the wild and incompetent government overspending on infrastructure projects (It's simpler to just cancel them boy. We'll only make another b*****s of them if we try to finish them).
    They didn't sell off the government jet, when it is clearly a luxury the
    country cannot afford (but we can't expect our ministers to book flights on Ryanair or Aerfungus like the common folks, can we?). A PR disaster.
    They ignored, and in some cases rubbished, the warnings of expert economists claiming that the government knew better, even though it's Finance Minister was a lawyer and there were only (apparently) two qualified economists in the Department of Finance.
    They spent millions in hiring consultants for almost every aspect of government, without ever (apparently) questioning whether their civil service could supply the same information. Then when they received the consultant's reports they ignored them.

    Wasn't this all on Cowen's watch when he was Minister for Finance?

    It's odd. I have spent most of my career in business management, in the marine and engineering industries, but these people are making me more left wing by the day. Much more of this and I will become an anarchist:D


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    #118
    Elevator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭Elevator


    Rubik. wrote: »
    Cowen & Co. kept telling us it wasn't their fault, we are a small open economy being dragged down by a global economic crises. Then a report they commissioned ,to look at the causes of the crises, concluded that only 25% of our our problems are related to outside factors, the remaining 75% was created domestically.

    Their latest mantra is - "we are unpopular because we are making difficult decisions". Conveniently ignoring their role in creating the need to make these "difficult" decisions in the first place.

    gotcha!!! link below to counter your claim

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0609/banks.html


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    #119
    Elevator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭Elevator


    sesna wrote: »
    The man is an intellectual powerhouse, master of his brief and economics genius.
    He and St Lenihan will guide us out of this mess.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8F-9nmZ5I

    this is the extent of brian cowens intelligence, "i brought ye a swimming pool to clara!" and the place goes mad

    i have no reason to stay in this country any longer

    give me my €100,000 and i'll be off thanks


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    #120
    poppyvalley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭poppyvalley


    aDeener wrote: »
    what an apt username :rolleyes:

    FCA... farmers carrying arms


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    #121
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Elevator wrote: »
    this is the extent of brian cowens intelligence, "i brought ye a swimming pool to clara!" and the place goes mad

    He doesn't need intelligence. All you need to do to get votes in Ireland is get someone their 'medjical card' or help them out with a bit of planning.

    The parish pump is where these people win their seats still because Irish people are small minded and only care about getting theirs rather than improving our society and nation as a whole.


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