Why is it different?

ebmma

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I just saw this after my post, and needed to reply.. I'm guessing your son is still small, and a "baby" - minding a baby isn't fun. There's very little feedback from the baby. You give give give and it takes a while before you see any sign of gratitude - but as they get older, and can talk to you, and tell you exactly what they think of you (good and bad!) that's when the rewards come.

Minding a baby is a thankless job. It's hard work - it's exhausting - and it's definitely not "fun"!... minding a 2 or 3 year old is hard work, exhausting, but it's a bit more fun. Minding a 4 or 5 year old is fun and a bit of work (the exhaustion has usually passed by this stage, as they are a bit more independent!)

I can't comment after that, at the moment!

The first 3 - 4 years of a childs life is constant, constant work. They need you to do EVERYTHING for them! After that it gets easier.

If you can handle a few years of a hard work, then you'll breeze the rest of it!

Thanks :-) I knew what I signed up for to some extent and that I'm not really much of a baby person and looking forward to him getting older. There's a big difference in the level of feedback from a newborn and 6 month old even so there's light at the end of the tunnel hopefully.:D

the reason I was saying all that is that I come across 'absolutely loving being a mother-my baby is the best thing that ever happened to me-he/she is absolutely perfect' posts from new parents quite often and they can make one feel quite inadequate if your personal experience isn't quite so rosy.

Ickle Magoo

ebmma wrote: »

Thanks :-) I knew what I signed up for to some extent and that I'm not really much of a baby person and looking forward to him getting older. There's a big difference in the level of feedback from a newborn and 6 month old even so there's light at the end of the tunnel hopefully.:D

the reason I was saying all that is that I come across 'absolutely loving being a mother-my baby is the best thing that ever happened to me-he/she is absolutely perfect' posts from new parents quite often and they can make one feel quite inadequate if your personal experience isn't quite so rosy.

I hated the baby stage, it couldn't come to an end fast enough - my two are 4 & 5 now and I wouldn't go back to the nappies and sleepless nights if you paid me & I could never understand those that went gaga at little outfits and so on - but I'm loving this stage...hang in there!

Big Bag of Chips

I have 3, and I never enjoyed the first few months! I really don't like the newborn stage, and it's only at about 5 months or so, that I start enjoying them - when they are a bit hardier, and you're not afraid of 'breaking' them!!!

Even by the time I had my 3rd, I still hadn't changed my mind about the first few months.. I don't like them. I don't like bathing and dressing a new born!
But as Ickle Magoo says... hang in there, the "good times" (!) are on the way!

By the way - about the "rush of love" thing.. it wasn't instant for me either. I fell in love with my children. As soon as they were born I burst into tears at the relief that they were here, safe and sound, and I wanted to protect them and keep them out of harm.. but there was no "rush of love"!

metrovelvet

The first year seems interminable torture tbh.

dan_d

Interesting thread.

I'm in the OP's shoes, in that I'm 27, babies are coming into the lives of some of our friends, and I just don't understand the fascination.

I thought I wanted children at some point. But recently I can't help thinking to myself - why? The screaming, the tantrums, the sleepless nights, the arguing with teenagers, the repetitive conversations, the increasing bills, and (apparently), the worrying that doesn't stop until you die.

Why? I live next door to a couple with a 3 year old. While he's very good, there are a few tantrums, and I just can't help thinking - is that really what I want? I'm so intolerant of badly behaved children, I just cannot accept that a child can't learn manners from a very young age.I don't buy into this worship the child thing that we have going on in this country. Adults need time too. And as a woman...I want a life too! I don't want to simply become " a mother". I exist aswell, I want a job and a life.

I keep being told "it'll be different when they're your own". I've even been told "you can't talk about what you'll get children to do, they never behave the way you think they will"....it's not their behaviour I think about, it's mine. I know I'll insist on manners. I know the only TV in the house will be in the living room. I know whining won't be tolerated. I know that bedtime will be bedtime and adult time will be adult time. I know I won't be making 3 or 4 different dinners for fussy eaters. I know it will be a dictatorship, and not a democracy for several years.

From reading this thread I get the impression that while people like having their own kids - this notion that all women adore babies and that all these maternal instincts just automatically overwhelm you, and you love every second of their existence and are thrilled by it, as is peddled by the media, is not really all that true. And that people can't exactly put a finger on why it's different, but it is.

I'm glad there's other people out there that think about this stuff, because sometimes I wonder if I'm completely nuts thinking like this.

astra2000

dad d your not nuts I think a lot of people have their doubts before they have kids. I suppose you just have to accept parents point of view that it is different even though we cant really explain why. All the things you say you would want from your kids are reasonable I want it from mine I dont get it all the time of course as nobody is perfect but it is the norm. A parent has to be in charge not the child. when your a parent you see other parents allowing things that you would not tolerate in a million years and you see some doing things you would never have thought of in a million years but think is great. A degree of flexibility is needed but that applys to life in general. At the end of the day if someone decides they dont want children for what ever reason that is their decision and its not wrong and there is no need to justify it.

LegacyUser

I'm just not sure it's a risk I'm willing to take.

It may not be different when it's my own child.

I love babies, and get on wonderfully well with older children, but toddlers and young teenagers drive me to distraction!

Big Bag of Chips: As for pride, yes I can imagine feeling proud of genuine achievement (like doing well at school, getting a degree, being good at a sport, writing a book etc.). As for things like learning to walk/use a cup/use a potty, I'd worry if they didn't learn, but can't imagine feeling proud that they did - although I may feel relieved at the first occurence of these behaviours!

ebmma: Thank you for your honesty. Knowing it's not all Hallmark cards and fuzziness makes me feel less alien for thinking this way.

dan_d: Always a relief to see people thinking similarly!

Cat Melodeon: Your posts are very reassuring - I'll be reading them again if I ever decide to have babies!

astra2000 and Ickle Magoo: Thanks again for all the input.

I need to ask you all - how boring does it get? I mean, the constant washing up, the babyproofing, the singing the same song 500 times, the repetitive games, feeding babies, doing homework, potty training, making lunches... It seems like an awful lot of drudgery. I have mentioned this work/repetition to relatives who are parents (tactfully, with humour and when appropriate!), and they just smile indulgently towards their children and say that it's all worth it - which doesn't exactly help!

metrovelvet

Ellen B 58 wrote: »

I'm just not sure it's a risk I'm willing to take.

It may not be different when it's my own child.

I love babies, and get on wonderfully well with older children, but toddlers and young teenagers drive me to distraction!

Big Bag of Chips: As for pride, yes I can imagine feeling proud of genuine achievement (like doing well at school, getting a degree, being good at a sport, writing a book etc.). As for things like learning to walk/use a cup/use a potty, I'd worry if they didn't learn, but can't imagine feeling proud that they did - although I may feel relieved at the first occurence of these behaviours!

ebmma: Thank you for your honesty. Knowing it's not all Hallmark cards and fuzziness makes me feel less alien for thinking this way.

dan_d: Always a relief to see people thinking similarly!

Cat Melodeon: Your posts are very reassuring - I'll be reading them again if I ever decide to have babies!

astra2000 and Ickle Magoo: Thanks again for all the input.

I need to ask you all - how boring does it get? I mean, the constant washing up, the babyproofing, the singing the same song 500 times, the repetitive games, feeding babies, doing homework, potty training, making lunches... It seems like an awful lot of drudgery. I have mentioned this work/repetition to relatives who are parents (tactfully, with humour and when appropriate!), and they just smile indulgently towards their children and say that it's all worth it - which doesn't exactly help!

It gets really boring. Especially year one. And isolating. Its tough tough work. The hardest work you will ever do.

At the same time, I learn so much from my son. And he makes me laugh. I like the toddler years, though they can test your patience too. They will want to make you tear your eyes out and scream. Or cry. I remember bursting into hysterical laughter on the street after listening to about 20 minute non stop stream of ridiculous questions.

That's all I know about so far.

But there are moments, that may not have meaning to an outsider, but suddenly all your work seems like it was worthwhile. The only thing I can compare it to is gardening, where you work and toil, and then suddenly you see the beauty of what you cared for and created.

I dont feel particularly proud when he learns to use a cup or spoon. And I will be very relieved when he finally learns to use the toilet. However, as much as I dont think these are that impressive, for the child it is a huge achievement, so it really forces you to put yourself in a world and take huge imaginative leaps to empathy. But I am impressed when he will walk up to me or someone he cares about and asks if they are happy, or when he told me he was dying and I asked him what the means and he tells me 'it means you're all gone' or today we made cupcakes and he actually waited for our guest arrive before eating them, and not because I made him, but because he wanted to. And he always says thank you. These things probably seem like mundane little mutterings to anyone else, but to me I see something different. And I think its the same for every parent, because no matter what, they see the child like no one else does, they see ever layer, every moment, every stage of development all echoing through the being who exists because of them.

But they will drive you mad. And you will be tired. And you will never sleep or listen the same way again.

astra2000

Hi again op well in answer to the question how boring does it get I wont lie I am glad the days of repetive epsiodes of barney are past how ever I am guilty of looking back at those days with nostilga not sure I will ever look back at Hannah Montanna with nostilga though! A lot of the mundane tasks are done on auto pilot you always have something on your mind. The singing same songs over and over is at times mind numbing but when it makes them smile or distracts them your glad youve done it. I would not have been able to understand it before I had kids either I dont know if anyone would tbh. I must be honest and say that now I dont have toddlers any more there are times when I find myself looking at my young nieces and nephews like they have ten heads!!! I agree that the worrying about them will never stop but I think once your sensible and dont let it become all consuming you get used to it. I suppose if you look at your own immediate family/siblings you may well see that you tolerate things from them that you wouldnt from friends there is a deeper love there even if you would never have chosen them as friends.
Your young only recently enough married you dont sound like you are ready yet to make a desision either way so I would say put it on the long finger enjoy your marriage and come back to the issue in a year, sometimes nature just takes over I went almost over night from " we will have them in a few years" to " I want a baby". dont know why had no real experience of kids it just happened. If you decide you dont want any so be it I am sure you will have a happy life either way best of luck. Remember somethings just cant be properly explained dont drive yourself mad looking for one.

Cat Melodeon

It's not at all intellectually stimulating, but it's not boring. I find real pleasure in many aspects of being a parent, just as I do in being a wife or a dog-owner. I like the gardening analogy too - weeding is the most boring work there is but I like having a nice garden. You can also think of it like a sport, say a running a marathon or something. It might seem boring to some people to put one foot in front of another for 3 hours, but the runners certainly don't think so. Nappy-changing and constant laundry is not exciting, but it is only a small part of having a child. For me, I think the emotional rewards are the pay-off. And children can simply be very entertaining in a non-cerebral way. I would be completely bored if my kid was the only person I hung out with, but I still have my husband, my friends, my colleagues, my life. It's only boring if you let it be.

Big Bag of Chips

OP, in your first post, you said you are asking about the negatives because the positives aren't an issue for you.

Can I ask what YOU think are/would be the positives, because going by the tone of your posts, I would be inclined to advise you away from children. Children need love, attention, encouragement, discipline to become happy, rounded, "normal" human beings. You sound as if you'd almost be indifferent to them... that will almost certainly get you the sort of child you detest.. bratty, spoilt, etc!

By the way, I don't mean that as dig at you - but you mention all the possible negatives, but haven't mentioned one positive that YOU yourself can think of.

If it's not for you, then it's not for you - it doesn't make you any better or worse than anyone else. Anyone who has the will or inclination can get a phd, but some people just aren't interested or bothered.. that doesn't make them any better or worse than you!

As with everything in life... If you are interested, you will enjoy it. If you are not interested, well then you're just not interested!

LegacyUser

astra2000: That's the thing - I wouldn't be more inclined to forgive family than friends. It's one of the things that make me question if I'm suited to this.

Big Bag of Chips:I definitely would not be at all indifferent, although I know I come across as more 'scientific' than many about this. I can think of lots of positives - I actually do get along very well with children, discipline is something I'm good at (and I certainly wouldn't spoil), I know how affectionate children can be (and would be more than happy to return the affection), I would give time without hesitation (it's one thing I haven't complained about during the thread - it's just repetitive tasks and 500 x Baa Baa Black Sheep that don't appeal). I like the idea of having children and grandchildren around in my old age (although not for them to look after me).

That's another thing - I don't want anyone to feel that they have to care for me in my old age.

CathyMoran

My son is only 20 weeks old now so I may get bored yet...so far I have been totally fascinated with this little human being, from watching him sleep to reading the same book 100 times...I did not think that I would like it but I love it. You love them in a different way to your spouse but you do love them totally. Seeing my husband being a great daddy like my daddy has been just makes me love my husband more. Yes you have less time and holidays are a challenge but you get to help this little person grow.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to be a parent - it is just something that for me I always wanted to do.

NamelessPhil

As a parent with a science background it is possible to see your kids as an ongoing science experiment. What they can't do this week they will be able to next. It's about pushing your boundaries and theirs.

You don't have to sing Baa Baa black sheep x 500, it can be whatever song comes to mind, ska, reggae, pop, AC/DC whatever. There's nothing funnier than watching a 6 month old rocking in time to Bob Marley. You can challenge yourself as well as them. If you have an inquiring mind then working out what makes a child tick can be very rewarding, as with any experiment if it's not working then change the variables.

As many other posters have mentioned, repetitive tasks are a fact of life. It just means you're doing it for someone else as well as yourself. If you can afford it or have lots of family support, parenting doesn't have to be full time. You can put the child in a creche/with a childminder/grandparent while you work or do stuff for yourself. This does not make you a selfish person, just realistic if full time parenting is not for you.

Communication with your partner is crucial. There is no point in wrapping yourself in the baby while the other half goes out to work or training with you feeling resentful. Make time for yourselves and each other. Everything should be up for discussion both before and after you have the child. Having a child is not done in isolation. I take my hat off to any single parent.

Like many other posters you would have to pay me danger money to do the first three months again. I didn't like it but got through it, The first six weeks were the longest but there is light at the end of the tunnel, the baby grows, it's not so dependent, it sleeps better and so do you.

This a lifetime relationship you are developing, and as a wise person once said "Children are like farts, you can just about stand your own!"

BTW, there is only one TV in the house, the child eats the same meals as us (baby led weaning FTW), it does not have to be a dictatorship.

Ickle Magoo

NamelessPhil wrote: »

...as a wise person once said "Children are like farts, you can just about stand your own!"

I'd never heard that one before - that's BRILLIANT! :pac::pac::pac::pac:

eviltwin

Part of the problem is that society makes us feel we have to want to have kids and that we are unnatural if we don't.

I didn't put any thought into having kids, I got pregnant when I was in my teens and found it really hard work and very unrewarding. It was constant worry but it wasn't the child that was the problem, it was me and my lack of faith in my own abilities as a parent. It was only when I got to leave my family home when my daughter was 5 and I was doing it for myself that the joy really came into it.

She's 13 now and she's got her moments, days when she's the biggest pain in the world but that's life. If you live with someone day in day out chances are somedays they are going to wind you up.

Overall though she is the most amazing thing in the world to me and looking at this young woman I've helped create is its own reward. I look back on the last 13 years and the most amazing moments are all to do with her, nothing else I thought was important really matters. I'm so excited to see what she becomes and what her mark on the world will be and its exciting to be a part of it. And I'm looking forward to doing it all over again with my youngest.

stovelid

Always find these posts a little strange, only in my opinion and not a barb, OP. What do people want to hear: that raising children is stress-free and a walk in the park? A Coca-Cola advert? Even before I had children, I knew that that would never be the case.

I think the experience of parenthood is utterly subjective and there is no way around that. And It's a perfectly valid and normal feeling not to want children in your life.

I liked (and like) children, always did, even before I had them, but the feelings I have for my own are totally different. Not to mention that they won't be children forever, as much as I enjoy that. You're going to know your children as adults - hopefully friends - too.

We couldn't be in a worse place as regards child-related stress, tiredness and hard work at the minute but it doesn't mean that I regret having them for a minute. The rewards are incredible even if I still often miss my old life. The other day summed it up for me as I had the house to myself for a few hours. I loved every single minute of it (and can't wait for the next time), but the house also felt somehow empty as well.

I think that for people who do want children: you are missing the intensely subjective element that reconciles the "misery" and joy of child-rearing.