Think we have it bad commuting in Dublin ??

Junior

I came across this site via twitter this morning http://101wankers.tumblr.com/ and her associated article in the Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2010/aug/18/cycling-sexist-abuse-female

Well worth a read and her site is well worth a bookmark !

Lumen

I cannot possibly judge this woman's work without knowing what she looks like.

Jawgap

What a whinger! My message to her would be:-

(a) get over yourself

(b) when you do get some "abuse" directed at you......

TinyExplosions

Lumen wrote: »

I cannot possibly judge this woman's work without knowing what she looks like.

Google will tell you that... find her name, then find out her flickr page -simples

daragh_

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Google will tell you that... find her name, then find out her flickr page -simples

Interweb Stalking 101

http://fforphilistine.wordpress.com/

Junior

Jawgap wrote: »

What a whinger! My message to her would be:-

(a) get over yourself

(b) when you do get some "abuse" directed at you......

So what's real abuse by your standards then ?

doozerie

I think her site is a great idea. Personally I find her accounts of the incidents entertaining, but most importantly she says herself that she finds posting about these idiots a constructive response to the kind of grief she gets subjected to on the bike.

As a male cyclist I find it tough to respond to pure aggression with anything other than frustration or potential aggression on my part, neither of which leaves you feeling any better afterwards. And ignoring idiots is difficult when they are imposing on your personal space and/or safety. As a female cyclist it appears that she is faced not just with the usual aggression, but also with a big dollop of misogyny thrown in for good measure, which must make it even more difficult to contend with such people. Fair play to her for finding an outlet for her understandable frustrations, and in doing so she also serves another purpose of raising awareness of ignorant and obnoxious behaviour which can only help in the fight against it. Good for her!

poochiem

Jawgap wrote: »

What a whinger! My message to her would be:-

(a) get over yourself

(b) when you do get some "abuse" directed at you......

she did better than smile and wave though, no? Taking a photo of the reg of one partcularly nasty gent's van and reporting him to his company, I say fair play to her.

Jawgap

Junior wrote: »

So what's real abuse by your standards then ?

Anything physical - if somebody shouts something nasty at you, why would you let them upset you?

I would say the best response is to completely ignore them - that leaves them wondering if they've been heard and if they shout a second time and you still ignore them, it leaves them looking stupid.

I'd also suggest just laughing at them - having worked in various jobs were you dealt with aggression I often found the best way to knock someone who is being aggressive back on their heels is to laugh at them - meeting their aggression with more aggression only escalates the situation.

Finally, if you're a journalist / writer living in London there must be better things to write about and if your blogging about cycling there are certainly better things to write about.

doozerie

Jawgap wrote:

I'd also suggest just laughing at them - having worked in various jobs were you dealt with aggression I often found the best way to knock someone who is being aggressive back on their heels is to laugh at them - meeting their aggression with more aggression only escalates the situation.

I agree that laughing in the face of someone's aggression can deflate both them and the situation but it doesn't work every time and not everyone is always in the right frame of mind for that to be their reaction. And, of course, not everyone who is being aggressive perceives what they are saying or doing as being an act of aggression (it really is the case that some men that utter the likes of "Phwooarrr" at passing females actually believe that females enjoy that kind of attention - the men in this case presumably see themselves as Brad Pitt and like to believe that every women craves the attention of men like that) - laughing in the face of the "aggressor" in that scenario might not elicit the same response as it would with someone a bit less self-delusional.

And, as a male there is the unknown female aspect to this as well. Male aggressors respond differently to reactions from males versus females. How would a male aggressor respond to laughter from a female "victim"? I don't know, but as a lot of aggression is based on an assumption on the part of the aggressor that they are in the dominant role, a laughter response from a male might make them wonder whether this potential male victim is more capable of dealing with their aggression than they guessed and might make them fear that they've picked on someone dangerous - if the target of the aggression was a female, the neanderthal aggressor might assume they retain the dominant role simply by being male (someone who casually harasses a female because she is female probably doesn't stray far from the ignorant view that all women are submissive) in which case a laughter response could actually escalate things.

BostonB

Jawgap wrote: »

Anything physical - ...

She mentions physical stuff in other blogs, I assume it was prior to starting this new blog.

poochiem wrote: »

she did better than smile and wave though, no? Taking a photo of the reg of one partcularly nasty gent's van and reporting him to his company, I say fair play to her.

+1

Jawgap

I think this is being way over-analysed......

You're on a bike - someone says something gratuitously offensive you can
(a) stop and remonstrate with them (and thus provide them with the attention they crave and were obviously deprived of as infants);
(b) ignore them;
(c) react in a completely unexpected way......

My preferred option is (b), except for the time when a couple of girls shouted "nice arse" at me - in which case I felt compelled to stop and demand that they not objectify me when I barely knew them and that such comments would only be accepted if they were accompanied with a phone number:)

The reporter in question, obviously went for option (d) - brood on it and write at length about it as a form of catharsis. If it helps her enjoy her cycling more, good luck to her, but it doesn't strike as being a positive response.

BostonB

I think the level of "comment" you'd get as a girl would be vastly beyond anything a guy (even brad pitt) would get.

Lumen

Jawgap wrote: »

The reporter in question, obviously went for option (d) - brood on it and write at length about it as a form of catharsis. If it helps her enjoy her cycling more, good luck to her, but it doesn't strike as being a positive response.

She is not a reporter, she is a "blogger and activist". Her blog is called "Politics, London and Militant Cycling". The cycling comes last.

I don't know what it's like to be a woman. I often think about it, in quiet moments of reflection.

Chips Lovell

Pulling a woman's top down on the street counts as physical abuse, in my book at least.

Lumen

el tonto wrote: »

Pulling a woman's top down on the street counts as physical abuse, in my book at least.

It's probably assault. Unless you argue that it was "in the circumstances such as is generally acceptable in the ordinary conduct of daily life".

Jawgap

Lumen wrote: »

She is not a reporter, she is a "blogger and activist". Her blog is called "Politics, London and Militant Cycling". The cycling comes last.

I don't know what it's like to be a woman. I often think about it, in quiet moments of reflection.

How does one cycle militantly? Is she the political wing of the Tooting Popular Front or the People's Front of Tooting; or the Popular People's Front of Tooting.......

el tonto wrote: »

Pulling a woman's top down on the street counts as physical abuse, in my book at least.

I'd agree - technically I'd think it would count as assault so I was wondering why she reported the numpty in the van for his loutish language but is there anyhting to suggest she contacted the Met following the assault?

Jawgap

Lumen wrote: »

It's probably assault. Unless you argue that it was "in the circumstances such as is generally acceptable in the ordinary conduct of daily life".

Damn! Beaten to the "assault" definition.......

doozerie

Jawgap wrote: »

I think this is being way over-analysed......

You're on a bike - someone says something gratuitously offensive you can
(a) stop and remonstrate with them (and thus provide them with the attention they crave and were obviously deprived of as infants);
(b) ignore them;
(c) react in a completely unexpected way......

My preferred option is (b), except for the time when a couple of girls shouted "nice arse" at me - in which case I felt compelled to stop and demand that they not objectify me when I barely knew them and that such comments would only be accepted if they were accompanied with a phone number:)

The reporter in question, obviously went for option (d) - brood on it and write at length about it as a form of catharsis. If it helps her enjoy her cycling more, good luck to her, but it doesn't strike as being a positive response.

An alternative view is that you are dismissing something that is a real issue. Ignoring such aggressive and hostile behaviour by others won't make it go away (and does absolutely nothing to make the same aggressor less likely to do or say the same again to someone else), and I would imagine that it would wear anyone down eventually given the frequency with which she describes it as occurring no matter how nonchalantly they decided to deal with it. There is a reason for the likes of verbal racial abuse being illegal, as it is a form of assault, and just as difficult for many people to simply ignore or deal with.

Of the options you outline above, I see her approach to dealing with hostility as a combination of options (b) and (c), and I see it as very positive response.

Incidentally, your reference to the "nice arse" comment that you received above is very much a male-centric one in my view. Sounds like you didn't see the person who uttered the comment as in any way threatening, and instead took the comment as a compliment. Swap the sexes around and the tone can atmosphere can potentially be completely different.