Tax Cheat. Should I report him?

Tender Hoop

Jealous because he scores the chicks at the gigs??

I have nothing but the upmost contempt for people like you. You should mind your own business and get a life.

Everyone knows that gigs pay feck all and barely cover the cost of the gear.

If i was a big scam or something then yes report him, but for playing gigs?? You sir, are a looser.

Jesus Juice

But if you're in a band doesnt that mean in that states eyes you dont have to pay tax being an artist?Or has artists exemption from being taxed been abolished?

Crossection

Well if gigs pay feck all he wont have anything to worry about will he

You are the worst kind of person. Its all to easy to turn a blind eye. I pay tax why shouldnt anyone else.

As for the Chicks, well Im can hold my own there

temply

Tender Hoop wrote: »

Jealous because he scores the chicks at the gigs??

I have nothing but the upmost contempt for people like you. You should mind your own business and get a life.

Everyone knows that gigs pay feck all and barely cover the cost of the gear.

If i was a big scam or something then yes report him, but for playing gigs?? You sir, are a looser.

x2

well said.

a lot of anger there, he'd want to look at himself first. not cool

The Agogo

Elbi wrote: »

ah noooooooooooooooo !!!

I cannot believe OP reported him....

It was none of your business,

If he is a taxpayer then it IS his business

From the tone of this thread I'd guess most people are stealing a portion of the pie.

Good that you reported him OP. He is a thief regardless of whatever personal offences he has caused you.

curehead

Great stuff looks like my taxes will be less next year with this guy caught :rolleyes:
Seriously though we all know people like this it's not like they live in mansions and are taunting us is it ? We all see people driving into the dole office in their 09 reg cars' i mean if you can keep a car on the road should you get dole ?
They have houses and assets and big bank accounts make them sell the lot first before getting anything .Then you might see your tax reduced .

axel rose

I really wonder how many of the 'mind your own business', 'get a life', 'you're only jealous' heads that posted here - actually pay tax?

temply

axel rose wrote: »

I really wonder how many of the 'mind your own business', 'get a life', 'you're only jealous' heads that posted here - actually pay tax?

i've been paying tax since i was 16 years old, never once in my life have i had to sign onto the dole either.

zxcvbnm1

Tender Hoop wrote: »

You sir, are a looser.

Ok - i know this is off topic but for the life of me I cannot understand why so many people are unable to spell 'lose' correctly.

There's only one 'o' in lose !

And while i'm at it, another one that bugs me is when people say could of instead of could have !

Apologies mods - but it's been going on far too long at this stage. Someone had to step in and say something.

Cheap Thrills!

fungun wrote: »

lots of people i know have tax issues that are not quite spot on and if they knew anyone reported someone else they would just keep quiet around this person...and there would prob end up being quite a lot of bitching behind their back. So I wouldnt do it.

Or if you do it, do it anonymously.....

Think first OP. You've given enough specific information about him/his circumstances and how you know him here online in your post and used your own username. It will not be anonymous. He or anyone he knows who reads it will be able to work out who you are.

Silverfish

Off topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum,
Please read the charter and abide by it.

Thank you.

Anyone defending the tax-cheat in the OP has no right to ever turn around and complain about the misuse of public funds by politicians.

Ireland would be a much better place if people were reporting more tax cheats.

Sir Gallagher

Justice means minding one's own business and not meddling with other men's concerns- Plato

MysticalSoul

You did the right thing OP, and as other posters have suggested he may not be liable to pay tax depending on his circumstances, however at least, if he is, it should be followed up now.

I once had a housemate like this, and he, like the person you know, used to boast about it, until he foolishly boasted to the wrong housemate, who happened to work in Revenue

tenchi-fan

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Justice means minding one's own business and not meddling with other men's concerns- Plato

obviously a quote from a time social welfare handouts didn't exist

Sir Gallagher

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Justice means minding one's own business and not meddling with other men's concerns- Plato

But it's not "other men's concerns" unless of course you don't pay any taxes or you simply do not care that the country can't afford to pay for the actual unemployed, nevermind the people who are using the dole to supplement their income illegally.

I despair for Ireland when I read threads like this and the "Ah sure jaysus he's only skiving a few quid" attitude.

srfc19

I think its very harsh reporting this person for fraud.

Since I finished college in May I've been getting less than 100 euro a week on the dole, and if i could make a few extra quid playing gigs, I would.

If I was, I would be absolutely sickened if someone I knew reported me, especially if they are lucky enough to still have a job and live comfortably during these times.

People should keep themselves to themselves.

the_monkey

Crossection wrote: »

He has no problem telling anyone who cares that hes not declaring any of it. I just rang the tax office and shopped him. He deserves it. The leech has NEVER had a job or paid any taxes. So **** him

RAT !

TYpical Irish Begrudgery

blahblah06

Fraud is fraud. Especially bragging about it.

Exactly why the country is the way it is

girlyhappyface

the_monkey wrote: »

RAT !

TYpical Irish Begrudgery

Seriously, how are "grown ups" still calling each other rats?!

It's a simple thing. The OP knows someone who is committing a crime. This crime is affecting ALL of the taxpayers in the country. Yes, the person in question is only one in a long line of people diddling the Social, but it everyone knew someone doing it, and reported it, the country would save millions.

People should stop picking apart the information in the OP's post. It doesn't matter if the OP likes this fella, if the fella is earning loads or a little as a musician, or whether he'll be a millionaire in years to come. Right now, by STEALING tax payers money he's screwing me, you, our friends, our families, our neighbours and our colleagues.

Good on you, OP! I wish there were more like you

Nevyn

the_monkey banned for 1 weel for personal abuse and failing to heed mod warnings.

Unhelpful and off-topic posting will get you banned from this forum.
Do take time to read the charter which contains the rules and abide by them.
Have a nice day.
Thaedydal

LighterGuy

Apart from the only reason the op reported him was jealously and not out of doing the right thing ... it hypocrisy.

lets take these "morals" and look at other things...

What about those dodgy NTL boxes that were going around up until a year ago? ... loads of people had them. Stealing free digitial tv. How many people on this thread had them or knew a friend who did. Did your morals come into play them? oh because they were "stealing" from someone else (ntl)? and not "your tax money?" - thats ok?

Or what about the time you downloaded a song or movie? - majority have done it. Did you say to yourself then "its harmless" - where were your morals then aswell people?


I love the hypocrisy of people in this thread.
All these "moral crusaders" jump out of the woodwork because they feel its a personal attack if someone does something under the table while on the social welfare.... their "tax money"... but if they were in the same situation and they could. They'd do it and justify it. Or maybe half of the posts on here are just public "PC" answers?

Nevyn

LighterGuy banned for 1 month, you can not insult posters on this forum.

animaal

LighterGuy wrote: »

lets take these "morals" and look at other things...

What about those dodgy NTL boxes that were going around up until a year ago? ... loads of people had them.

Yes, most people have done something "dodgy" at some point. However, if I did something of that nature, I'd know it's wrong. I'd do it with a sense of guilt. If I was to get caught, I'd know there's nobody to blame but myself. How could it be somebody else's fault?

I'm guessing there's a thread somewhere on Boards concerning a certain politician's expenses. And I bet almost nobody was criticising those who reported the alleged fraud. How is this different? Just because one alleged scammer is wealthier than the other? Who gets to decide where that line get drawn? I'm sure anybody who's caught (even a politician) would feel he's small fry compared to somebody else.

All the OP did was report a suspicion. If there's no fraud, nobody will be in any trouble. If there is a small amount of fraud, there'll be a a rap on the knuckles. If there's fraud, and it's on a big scale, there'll be more serious consequences. It's hardly unfair.

curehead

Thaedydal wrote: »

LighterGuy banned for 1 month, you can not insult posters on this forum.

A bit harsh there i didn't see him insult anyone ???

Ickle Magoo

As per the forum rules, any problems with the moderators then feel free to PM us or take it to one of the CMods.

Please keep replies on topic and helpful to the OP.

Many thanks

Ickle

LegacyUser

I've worked very hard for many years and paid a large amount of tax all the way through. I've also lived through leaner times and was very briefly on the dole (maybe six months) after leaving college (before the tiger economy kicked in, when, like now, there was little gainful employment to be had). I understand that the dole is peanuts and very difficult to live on.

I was a musician but never made anything more than the price of a couple of pints during a gig, and struggled to come up with rent for rehearsal space and the cost of a packet of guitar strings all the time. Being a musician was a labour of love and an expensive hobby.

Youngfellas playing a few gigs here and there and maybe putting on an odd show would generally make very little, and usually end up spending what they make on equipment anyway.

These are not people who can afford an accountant to "put their affairs in order".

If we were talking about someone living a flash lifestyle at the tax payers expence then I could understand it, but reporting some kid getting cash in hand for strumming a guitar on the street or down the local an odd time seems petty and downright mean to me.

Maybe I'm just out of touch.

I must assume the OP doesn't download mp3's for free (which takes money from the pockets of musicians and puts them on the dole) or accept copies of albums, movies or software from friends or acquaintances without paying the legally neccessary royalties.

Crossection

I feel once again I need to clarify something. The person I reported WORKED as a musician and gigged two or three nights a week. But they also WORKED as a promoter providing DJs and organising club nights and tents at music festivals up and down Munster for the last few years. They weren’t some struggling hobo busking on the side of the road. But a professional musician and promoter, running a very real business and not paying any dues.

CdeC

shouldn't have reported him. I enjoy live music and gigs and I know that there's not a lot of money in it at the lower levels.

Also its the system that is at fault, I do not hat people who if signing on supplement it with casual work. Sure better than sitting at home scratching.

Just stay out of it. If it pisses you off than stay away from him.

tenchi-fan

Working Dude wrote: »

I was a musician but never made anything more than the price of a couple of pints during a gig, and struggled to come up with rent for rehearsal space and the cost of a packet of guitar strings all the time. Being a musician was a labour of love and an expensive hobby.

Youngfellas playing a few gigs here and there and maybe putting on an odd show would generally make very little, and usually end up spending what they make on equipment anyway.

In that case, maybe they should dedicate less of their time to their expensive hobby and more time to gainful employment. If they really are that badly off playing music in a pub maybe they should pull pints instead?

If they are running a business, it's pretty simple. Income less Expenditure = taxable profit! In this case, it's not a case of tax evasion but a case of welfare fraud.

There are some social welfare benefits which ARE available to people who work part-time, including rent supplement, family income supplement, and jobseekers benefit using the X and O sheets.

The op states that the person he reported makes a lot more than the price of a couple of pints. I don't think there should be any distinction because it's impossible to draw the line. If someone claims €200 on welfare and earns say €150 to spend on their hobby (equipment) and the price of a few pints .. the only difference between them and a minimum wage worker is that the min wage worker did not claim any benefits and instead worked a 40 hour week.

These dole cheats need to lose their self of entitlement. If they can't afford an expensive hobby maybe they should get a job instead.

excellent post tenchi-fan

Motley Crue

Crossection wrote: »

He doesn’t declare ANY of this income and is still signing on. Should I report him?

Yes

Declaring income is a legal necessity if he is registered self employed. If he is unemployed and earning this extra income, even if he can support the fact that he does not use a penny of it for himself, he still needs to declare that money.

I would also contact CAB for matters concerning unexplained wealth

Unless you expect a reward or you're doing it out of revenge, jealously or some petty minded squabble...in which case you should just continue with your own life and ignore him

pj9999

The guy is stealing from the people... from us. He is brazen about it.

There are people on here who from the sound of it would give him a pat on the back.

Well done OP on reporting it.

LegacyUser

tenchi-fan wrote: »

In that case, maybe they should dedicate less of their time to their expensive hobby and more time to gainful employment. If they really are that badly off playing music in a pub maybe they should pull pints instead?

If they are running a business, it's pretty simple. Income less Expenditure = taxable profit! In this case, it's not a case of tax evasion but a case of welfare fraud.

There are some social welfare benefits which ARE available to people who work part-time, including rent supplement, family income supplement, and jobseekers benefit using the X and O sheets.

The op states that the person he reported makes a lot more than the price of a couple of pints. I don't think there should be any distinction because it's impossible to draw the line. If someone claims €200 on welfare and earns say €150 to spend on their hobby (equipment) and the price of a few pints .. the only difference between them and a minimum wage worker is that the min wage worker did not claim any benefits and instead worked a 40 hour week.

These dole cheats need to lose their self of entitlement. If they can't afford an expensive hobby maybe they should get a job instead.

If, as the OP has clarified, this person is making a living wage on regular basis then they should not be getting dole, or anything of the sort. I agree.

However, if someone gets €150 for playing a gig and spends that on equipment/rehearsal space then even in your example that can be considered a business expence and therefore they have made no income, which was my point.

I have known plenty of musicians in my time and the overwhelming majority have made no money from it. The overwhelming majority also had part time or full time, taxed, jobs in order to be able to continue making music.
Some people do things for the love of it, profit is not always the goal.

I'm not defending tax cheats or welfare fraudsters, merely pointing out that in most cases musicians spend at least as much as they are paid on what they do so appearances can be deceptive.

The world would be a more unpleasant place if people only spent time on things they were paid for.

SerialComplaint

Working Dude wrote: »

However, if someone gets €150 for playing a gig and spends that on equipment/rehearsal space then even in your example that can be considered a business expence and therefore they have made no income, which was my point.

As a self-employed person, he would only be taxed on his legitimate profits. Expenses such as equipment and room rental would be deducted from his income before calculating any tax due.

Penn

At the end of the day, since the OP reported this guy, his income and expenditures will be investigated. If he really is earning so little that nothing comes of it, then fair enough, he has nothing to worry about. But if he is claiming for benefits that he is not entitled to get, then he should rightfully be punished. We don't know his full expenditures or incomes. But that's what is going to be investigated and established.

charlatans

well done,i also want to report a very greedy tax evader how do i do it

tenchi-fan

charlatans wrote: »

well done,i also want to report a very greedy tax evader how do i do it

If the person is claiming benefits and not disclosing their income (endemic in ireland!), tipping off the social welfare office is your best bet. I'm sure they will pass his details on to the revenue commissioners if he's also evading tax.
https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

I absolutely despise the amount of tradesmen making the most of the recession by claiming the dole and receiving €80-100+ a day cash in hand for "nixers"

If the person is just evading tax you should phone the local tax office, or if you're a bit nervous about this just type out an anonymous letter and post it.

whatsamsn

Ok everyone seems to be on one side or the other. But lets ask the question ... is it really right to report someone because you dont like them more so than breaking the law? (as the op opnely admitted he was jealous of the man)


What I mean is, lets say for example, I work with techi-fan above.
Lets say he is taking a few small items from the office. Which is stealing. But, the thing is in this example I hate tenchi-fan. I cant stand the guy say. So I report him based on my feelings towards him. Because I dont like him. Rather than my moral objection to stealing.

Is that really ok in your average users opinion in this thread?
Is it ok to do something out of hate or spite but as long as I slap a moralistic reason on it... that makes it ok?

tenchi-fan

whatsamsn wrote: »

Ok everyone seems to be on one side or the other. But lets ask the question ... is it really right to report someone because you dont like them more so than breaking the law? (as the op opnely admitted he was jealous of the man)


What I mean is, lets say for example, I work with techi-fan above.
Lets say he is taking a few small items from the office. Which is stealing. But, the thing is in this example I hate tenchi-fan. I cant stand the guy say. So I report him based on my feelings towards him. Because I dont like him. Rather than my moral objection to stealing.

Is that really ok in your average users opinion in this thread?
Is it ok to do something out of hate or spite but as long as I slap a moralistic reason on it... that makes it ok?

Do you have a reason for hating me :eek:

Well my view is, if I hate someone it's for a good reason. They might be a bad person in ways which are not illegal, so I would punish them by reporting them for something else rotten they are doing.
If someone gives me a lot of crap and I find out they are pushing up their income by €10k a year with ill-gotten benefits, too right I'll report them.

On the other hand, if I like the person I'd probably keep out of it, but I would not feel overly sorry for them if someone else reported them.

whatsamsn

tenchi-fan wrote: »

Do you have a reason for hating me :eek:

not yet tenchi... not yet (gives evil eye) lol. only messing

tenchi-fan wrote: »

Well my view is, if I hate someone it's for a good reason. They might be a bad person in ways which are not illegal, so I would punish them by reporting them for something else rotten they are doing.
If someone gives me a lot of crap and I find out they are pushing up their income by €10k a year with ill-gotten benefits, too right I'll report them.

On the other hand, if I like the person I'd probably keep out of it, but I would not feel overly sorry for them if someone else reported them.

Thats probably one of the most honest posts in this thread so far. Alotta of people would not openly say they wouldnt report someone they like.

And I think there lies the true issue with people reporting on people.

Personally I think all this reporting (especially in the op's case) has nothing to do with morals or doing the right thing. Its from jealously, hate or even spite.

Guess its a statement to how much hypocrisy there is in life.

tinkerbell

Right, I haven't read the whole 7 pages but the OP's "friend" is getting dole, is in a band doing gigs and is a promoter earning money, doesn't declare his income and is doing fraud by claiming welfare when he shouldn't be.

OP, good for you on reporting him, you were dead right. There is so much social welfare fraud going on in this country, and I for one am disgusted that the huge amount of taxes I pay every month goes towards scumbags like this fool who is claiming benefits which my tax pays for, when he shouldn't be.

The more people like you in this country, the better I say. Maybe then we wouldn't have such high incidence of welfare fraud. So fair play to ya.

JonathanAnon

tenchi-fan wrote: »

Do you have a reason for hating me :eek:

Well you were stealing pens, allegedly...

I agree with whatsamsn above.. OP ostensibly did the right thing for spiteful reasons ...

However, I would add one appendage though... you have no definite information on this man's earnings.. He could have been bragging to you about earnings that he had never in fact made, because of pride or ego or whatever. How many of your male friends "talk up" their wages??

OP did not give this man the benefit of the doubt.. I mean if he was working in the proper job (paye, paid every month by employer) and OP knew that he was also claiming, then I would say fair game.. But you have taken it upon yourself to play god for spiteful reasons...

Some day, at some stage in your life, somebody will sit in judgement on you, and karma may come back to haunt you.

sam34

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Well you were stealing pens, allegedly...

I agree with whatsamsn above.. OP ostensibly did the right thing for spiteful reasons ...

However, I would add one appendage though... you have no definite information on this man's earnings.. He could have been bragging to you about earnings that he had never in fact made, because of pride or ego or whatever. How many of your male friends "talk up" their wages??

OP did not give this man the benefit of the doubt.. I mean if he was working in the proper job (paye, paid every month by employer) and OP knew that he was also claiming, then I would say fair game.. But you have taken it upon yourself to play god for spiteful reasons...

Some day, at some stage in your life, somebody will sit in judgement on you, and karma may come back to haunt you.

how has the op "played god"?

reporting to revenue is not playing god

if the guy has nothing to hide, then revenue will see that very quickly and case will be closed

no big drama

AP_MAN

I know a guy whos has 2 jobs..

Job 1. working full time job (paying tax etc..)

Job 2. Evenings and weekends i.e. 7 days a week more than 40 + hours per week, he is working cash in hand jobs i.e. no tax paid.

He has a rented 2 bed house, and he gave 1 bed to sharing. But he is claming full rent tax relief...

He has Medical card because he is entitled based on his full time job income where his other evening weekend job earnings are not declared.

Is this not tax fraud?