* All things "Re-check" ...

Healium

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It's interesting to see posts where papers have been correcting by the examiner and the head examiner. All posters so far have said something along the lines of 'Raging, the head examiner brought me down a mark so I got an A2 instead of an A1'. I notice nobody mentions when the head exmainer brings them up.

The head examiner is there to make sure the papers are corrected properly. Your original examiner may have added up their marks incorrectly or given you marks for something for which you were not entitled to marks. The re-check by the head examiner has rectified those errors to ensure you got the mark you DESERVE whether that is higher or lower. Like interest rates, marks can go up as well as down.

Will anyone be sending back their script because they were given 10 marks they didn't deserve because the examiner gave them marks for something that was incorrect?


As for going up points and being offered your first/higher choice. It's not set in stone whether you accept the place this year or next. If say it was a Business/Arts course, they can probably be accommodating and let you start this year because there is no need for any specialist equipment, no cap on numbers allowed in a lab, large numbers on the course anyway (if there's 400, 401 isn't going to make much difference) and plenty will drop out, not turn up to tutorials etc so fitting you in is not going to be an issue. On the other hand if there are only 25 places in Dentistry because there are only 25 dentists chairs to practice with, they cannot offer place no. 26 to someone this year as they don't have the facilities to accommodate them, so they do the next best thing and reserve a place for you next year.

The other side of it is by the time you are offered a place some colleges are 6 weeks into the course, some courses are hard to catch up on and some are not, depending on the workload, the subjects and possibly the subject combination you did in LC. So some colleges advise deferring until next year and some leave it up to the student to decide. One of my own students got Pharmacy about 5 years ago after 2 appeals. She started in November but worked her arse off to catch up. Another student would have taken the year out and started the following year.

Ooh, ooh, the Chief Examiner brought me up! TAKE MY STATISTIC!

TimeToShine

2 Marks off an A1 in maths, and that fúcking shít they did with the Line c part really screwed me over, lost 14 marks for no reason.

English, I got 320 out of 400, a B1, but two teachers saw it with me and say it was a guaranteed A1. I don't know if I should recheck because I'm afraid of going down, but the examiner seemed really careless to me, for instance every time he marks P C and L he always gave the same number, eg 16 16 16 or 21 21 21...I did a far worse paper for the mocks and got 95% and supposedly this was corrected by someone who'd been correcting for 20 years, Any advice on whether or not I should send it away?

PARARORY

Disgusted after viewing my script that the examiner made a complete balls of one of my papers.

Loads of words were circled (saying they were incorrectly spelled) when they weren't! Two questions that were meant to be marked out of 15 i only got marked out of 11.

Essay was perfect bar less than 5 spelling mistakes yet I got 85% ; It was over required length and the subject topic was bang on.

I got one of those white discrepancy reports to go mad at them

Maybe_Memories

TimeToShine wrote: »

2 Marks off an A1 in maths, and that fúcking shít they did with the Line c part really screwed me over, lost 14 marks for no reason.

Join the club - I was hung for that as well and lost 10 marks for one tiny error in the circle question. the "Hit/Miss" policy they had with the vector question was very unfair too.
I also lost 3 marks for not explicitly stating that a minus by a minus is a plus.

I'm 1 mark from an A1.

So it seems that in HL Maths, we get harshly penalised for tiny errors, and have to make it very clear we know how to do things from promary school...

implausible

TimeToShine wrote: »

English, I got 320 out of 400, a B1, but two teachers saw it with me and say it was a guaranteed A1. I don't know if I should recheck because I'm afraid of going down, but the examiner seemed really careless to me, for instance every time he marks P C and L he always gave the same number, eg 16 16 16 or 21 21 21...

That's fairly standard, sometimes an answer is just an obvious B or a C so the marks for P,C and L are the same. Send it off anyway, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

PARARORY wrote: »

Loads of words were circled (saying they were incorrectly spelled) when they weren't! Two questions that were meant to be marked out of 15 i only got marked out of 11.

Essay was perfect bar less than 5 spelling mistakes yet I got 85% ; It was over required length and the subject topic was bang on.

Are you 100% that the essay was perfect? The usual way of losing marks here is if the topic or purpose isn't bang on e.g. a personal essay that reads like a short story. Mind you, if you were marked out of the wrong figure, that should change even though it's only a potential 8 marks. The only reason you should've been marked out of 11 would be if your script is RA (for dyslexia, special centre, scribe).

English scripts tend to go up only if there are mistakes in the adding or if the marking scheme wasn't applied properly.

estadio

I checked my business H.L paper and it was marked poorly. There were some simple matriculation errors and some huge blunders in not adhering to the marking scheme. Even my teacher said i was marked harshly. Hopefully my A2 will go up but won't affect my course. On the other hand the chemistry marker was pretty generous, allowing marks which were a bit iffy. So it turns out the luck of the draw i.e which examiner you get can have an effect on a grade or 2.

Lawliet

estadio wrote: »

On the other hand the chemistry marker was pretty generous, allowing marks which were a bit iffy. So it turns out the luck of the draw i.e which examiner you get can have an effect on a grade or 2.

I wonder if chemistry was marked easier in general this year, it was a pretty horrible exam and I was shocked that I did so well in it. Kind of wish I'd gone in just to see how mine was marked now

i like pie

Lawliet wrote: »

I wonder if chemistry was marked easier in general this year, it was a pretty horrible exam and I was shocked that I did so well in it. Kind of wish I'd gone in just to see how mine was marked now

yup it was definitely marked easier, mine was corrected twice after the marking scheme had been adjusted and i went up a grade:)

dambarude

The chemistry marking scheme seemed to have been adjusted to bring grades up. The script I saw had lots of marks crossed out and brought up by the original examiner, and it was upgraded further by an supervising examiner.

PARARORY

Are you 100% that the essay was perfect? The usual way of losing marks here is if the topic or purpose isn't bang on e.g. a personal essay that reads like a short story. Mind you, if you were marked out of the wrong figure, that should change even though it's only a potential 8 marks. The only reason you should've been marked out of 11 would be if your script is RA (for dyslexia, special centre, scribe).

English scripts tend to go up only if there are mistakes in the adding or if the marking scheme wasn't applied properly.

Irish , not English!

spurious

Regardless of subject, scripts tend to go up only if there are mistakes in the adding or if the marking scheme wasn't applied properly.

implausible

PARARORY wrote: »

Irish , not English!

Sorry about that. You never mentioned the subject, so I just assumed it was English.

PARARORY

Sorry about that. You never mentioned the subject, so I just assumed it was English.

Sorry I thought I did , my bad :pac:

Niche market

I feel a bit lost in relation to my appeals.... i got an E in maths, went to view it there on Saturday, and struggled to see how the marks were not given. Anyway, i worked out that i got like 34.6% overall. But now im wondering if i should bother appealing since 5% is quite a big mark up, and i don't know if i'll get it!! But on the other hand, what do i have to loose???

Uuugggghhh!!!! confused.com

bleh!

Niche market wrote: »

I feel a bit lost in relation to my appeals.... i got an E in maths, went to view it there on Saturday, and struggled to see how the marks were not given. Anyway, i worked out that i got like 34.6% overall. But now im wondering if i should bother appealing since 5% is quite a big mark up, and i don't know if i'll get it!! But on the other hand, what do i have to loose???

Uuugggghhh!!!! confused.com

Did you do HL Maths? One of my teachers last year said that they pass people who get >38% (or something) in HL. But she was a Biology teacher so correct me if I'm wrong. :P

spurious

bleh! wrote: »

Did you do HL Maths? One of my teachers last year said that they pass people who get >38% (or something) in HL. But she was a Biology teacher so correct me if I'm wrong. :P

In Junior Cert., if a candidate gets to the equivalent of 38%, the examiner is supposed to go back and see is there any way they can be brought to a pass mark.
This may be where the stories about passing on 38% came from, but afaik it is not the case at Leaving Cert..

almostnever

spurious wrote: »

In Junior Cert., if a candidate gets to the equivalent of 38%, the examiner is supposed to go back and see is there any way they can be brought to a pass mark.
This may be where the stories about passing on 38% came from, but afaik it is not the case at Leaving Cert..

There was a document, rough guidelines for the process, where I was viewing my scripts and it referred to the "tradition" of assigning a pass mark at 38%. Up until then I thought it was one of those urban myths but according to that, it happens.

lctake2

Healium wrote: »

Ooh, ooh, the Chief Examiner brought me up! TAKE MY STATISTIC!

brought me up a grade in biology

Alison92

Hello! I just got my Geography paper reviewed today in my school and there was a blatant error. I was told i got C2 when infact i had gotten a B1.
Not only that but im 7marks off an A2..Thats a 25point boost so i was delighted/angry at the same time when i found out!!
With the rechecks i will definitely have enough points now for my first course in DCU.
How likely am i to be able to switch courses now that it turns out i actually got the points??

QueenOfLeon

Alison92 wrote: »

Hello! I just got my Geography paper reviewed today in my school and there was a blatant error. I was told i got C2 when infact i had gotten a B1.
Not only that but im 7marks off an A2..Thats a 25point boost so i was delighted/angry at the same time when i found out!!
With the rechecks i will definitely have enough points now for my first course in DCU.
How likely am i to be able to switch courses now that it turns out i actually got the points??

Depends on the course, some leave spaces for those who were brought up in rechecks, some will reserve a place on the course for next year. Theres a thread called "All things recheck" here, you'll get more info there.

implausible

Alison92 wrote: »

I was told i got C2 when infact i had gotten a B1.
Not only that but im 7marks off an A2..Thats a 25point boost

I don't mean to be harsh but I hope you're not relying on those last 5 points as there's no guarantee they'll bring you up to an A2.

It depends on the type of course it is. If there are limited places and it's full, then they mightn't be able to accommodate you, likewise if a lot of material has been covered by the time your new grades come through. I think you need to contact the college to find out.

MavisDavis

bleh! wrote: »

Did you do HL Maths? One of my teachers last year said that they pass people who get >38% (or something) in HL. But she was a Biology teacher so correct me if I'm wrong. :P

I'm almost 100% sure that in Ordinary Level maths, the pass mark is 38%.
I'm not sure that if that applies to HL maths too, though.

Ditzie

the pass mark for english and maths this year did drop to 38%.... it was all over the news a while ago.

Joe_Dull

Sent back my Music paper - the marking was an absolute shambles. Yer one had added up the marks for my harmony wrong (9 less than I got) and took huge marks off me for my melody and IM essay for apparently no reason. Was a bit shocked with an A2, but it looks like I'll go up after a recheck thank God!

felic

Its such a disgrace that mistakes can be made like this on the scripts marking! But congrats on the upgrade all the same.
Its really curious how this works actually. I mean, if such blatant errors are made that result in a person being upgraded, surely the opposite most also happen; whereby a student gets awarded an A1 but their script should really only have gotten a B2? But I bet thats doesnt go to the recheck stage! Instead of forcing students to go through this every year, they really need to recoordinate that whole marking process... the correctors are only human and get tired and lose focus... so it should be a panel correcting these papers... using those plastic sheets over the scripts to give the marks... not on the page.. and then say 3 people corrected it, take the average mark of those 3. Has to be a fairer less error prone system than whats currently there. Especially when its so important as a difference of one grade degree getting someone onto a course or missing out on it.

QueenOfLeon

felic wrote: »

Its such a disgrace that mistakes can be made like this on the scripts marking! But congrats on the upgrade all the same.
Its really curious how this works actually. I mean, if such blatant errors are made that result in a person being upgraded, surely the opposite most also happen; whereby a student gets awarded an A1 but their script should really only have gotten a B2? But I bet thats doesnt go to the recheck stage! Instead of forcing students to go through this every year, they really need to recoordinate that whole marking process... the correctors are only human and get tired and lose focus... so it should be a panel correcting these papers... using those plastic sheets over the scripts to give the marks... not on the page.. and then say 3 people corrected it, take the average mark of those 3. Has to be a fairer less error prone system than whats currently there. Especially when its so important as a difference of one grade degree getting someone onto a course or missing out on it.

Grades can stay the same or be brought down in a recheck aswel. Its just not as common as if the person brings a teacher with them to the viewing the teacher should be able to see that theres no point appealing.

dambarude

felic wrote: »

Its such a disgrace that mistakes can be made like this on the scripts marking! But congrats on the upgrade all the same.
Its really curious how this works actually. I mean, if such blatant errors are made that result in a person being upgraded, surely the opposite most also happen; whereby a student gets awarded an A1 but their script should really only have gotten a B2? But I bet thats doesnt go to the recheck stage! Instead of forcing students to go through this every year, they really need to recoordinate that whole marking process... the correctors are only human and get tired and lose focus... so it should be a panel correcting these papers... using those plastic sheets over the scripts to give the marks... not on the page.. and then say 3 people corrected it, take the average mark of those 3. Has to be a fairer less error prone system than whats currently there. Especially when its so important as a difference of one grade degree getting someone onto a course or missing out on it.

That won't happen because it would cost a fortune. Any medium to major problem in marking should be spotted by supervising examiners, and while assistant (normal) examiners may make a few slips, I don't think they happen often enough to warrant a complete overhaul of the marking process.

rainbowtrout

felic wrote: »

Its such a disgrace that mistakes can be made like this on the scripts marking! But congrats on the upgrade all the same.
Its really curious how this works actually. I mean, if such blatant errors are made that result in a person being upgraded, surely the opposite most also happen; whereby a student gets awarded an A1 but their script should really only have gotten a B2? But I bet thats doesnt go to the recheck stage! Instead of forcing students to go through this every year, they really need to recoordinate that whole marking process... the correctors are only human and get tired and lose focus... so it should be a panel correcting these papers... using those plastic sheets over the scripts to give the marks... not on the page.. and then say 3 people corrected it, take the average mark of those 3. Has to be a fairer less error prone system than whats currently there. Especially when its so important as a difference of one grade degree getting someone onto a course or missing out on it.

Are you having a laugh? I spent the month of July correcting 400 papers, as did all the other examiners who corrected my subject. I don't see where they would get three times as many examiners if every paper was to be corrected 3 times. To have a panel the SEC would then have to pay examiners to stay in/commute to one location, probably Athlone. It already costs and arm and a leg without that expense and I can't see any teacher wanting to move to Athlone to correct papers for the month of July.

Using plastic sheets over scripts wouldn't work either unless you made every paper a fill in the gaps type of exam which would make a farce of the whole LC. Students don't all do questions in the same order or write the same amount for each question.

I think people think there are widespread errors when there aren't. 57,000 people sat the LC this year. Most probably did 6-7 exams. A lot view their papers but only a proportion of those send them back. Not all are upgraded. I've corrected upgrades and very very few have enough errors that will carry them into the next grade band.

There will always be errors. Examiners are human and when you've read the same thing 400 times, mistakes are bound to happen. I've corrected questions plenty of times where I'll read the same answer 100 times in a row because every student has learned off a paragraph word for word from a revision book. It nearly comes as a shock then to see an answer that's different and it throws you out if you're expecting the standard answer that everyone else gave.

Just on your point that if low grades are given instead of high grades does it happen the other way around. To be honest I don't think it does. The errors where a student goes from a C2 to an A1 tend to be addition errors, or data entry errors. Most of the time they only go up by one grade in rechecks. If you are marking an A1 paper you know it very very quickly, the student knows everything, is precise, and gets full marks almost all the way through. it's very easy to correct. So if I was correcting a B2 paper and added up the marks and got an A1 grade, I'd sit there thinking 'that can't be right' they didn't do that good a paper. After correcting about two questions on a paper I can usually have a fairly good guess at what grade the student will come out with. It's easy to see from the standard of answering so if you've marked someone A1 by accident you will spot it. I would think 'but they didn't get full marks in all their questions, it couldn't be an A1'.

felic

Very good points made in response to my comment.
Ok, having the scripts marked say three times may seem futile and a wasted expense. But... I do think while many of the subjects out there have questions on the papers that you either have a right or a wrong answer, when it comes to exams like English and Irish, (two big ones in my opinion), where essays are required, I think more than one corrector should see the script. We all know that different teachers like different styles and if one particular corrector thinks you wrote something that they dont like, there will be another who thinks the same piece is fantastic. Thats just the way English works.

When the grade assignment errors are made due to mistakes in adding up the total... then maybe that needs to be reviewed. Maybe there should be a section for the correct to put in the marks but not have to sum it all up too?

I don't really know how the whole thing can be made better. But I do see your point on the 'learned off same answer over and over again' coming up. That must be annoying alright and I do hope such 'learn by heart' answering is also addressed because such answers don't demonstrate a students ability; they just reflect the fact that the LC system in whole can be beaten. I don't think such answers should be penalized... but i think such questions shouldn't even appear on the exam.
But as for not being enough teachers to facilitate marking scripts 3 times... why are they saying thousands of teachers are on the dole queue then? or can only get part time positions? But I do accept the expense of such an operation and the length of time it would take to process.
400 scripts is unreal!!!! Thats eye burn out for anyone! Especially when its the same thing over and over and over. I don't envy you.

rainbowtrout

felic wrote: »

Very good points made in response to my comment.
Ok, having the scripts marked say three times may seem futile and a wasted expense. But... I do think while many of the subjects out there have questions on the papers that you either have a right or a wrong answer, when it comes to exams like English and Irish, (two big ones in my opinion), where essays are required, I think more than one corrector should see the script. We all know that different teachers like different styles and if one particular corrector thinks you wrote something that they dont like, there will be another who thinks the same piece is fantastic. Thats just the way English works.

When the grade assignment errors are made due to mistakes in adding up the total... then maybe that needs to be reviewed. Maybe there should be a section for the correct to put in the marks but not have to sum it all up too?

I don't really know how the whole thing can be made better. But I do see your point on the 'learned off same answer over and over again' coming up. That must be annoying alright and I do hope such 'learn by heart' answering is also addressed because such answers don't demonstrate a students ability; they just reflect the fact that the LC system in whole can be beaten. I don't think such answers should be penalized... but i think such questions shouldn't even appear on the exam.
But as for not being enough teachers to facilitate marking scripts 3 times... why are they saying thousands of teachers are on the dole queue then? or can only get part time positions? But I do accept the expense of such an operation and the length of time it would take to process.
400 scripts is unreal!!!! Thats eye burn out for anyone! Especially when its the same thing over and over and over. I don't envy you.

There are thousands of teachers on the dole queue, but do appreciate the fact that many of these are newly qualified graduates straight out of college with no teaching experience. No disrespect to those teachers but when they possibly have had no experience of teaching the subject do you want them correcting your leaving cert paper. I'll give you an example. I'm qualified in ag science, biology and chemistry. I have never taught a biology class since i left college 10 years ago. So i'm not familiar now with the finer details of how the subject is examined or marked. Now biology is more clear cut as science and subjects like it have definite right or wrong answers, but as you quite rightly said English, particularly essays are subjective. Wouldn't you prefer a teacher who has had experience of teaching the subject and maybe had a few years experience correcting at Junior Cert level correcting your LC paper or just someone who has never taught the course but is qualified?

Also in some subjects there are a small number of teachers to begin with and it's hard to get examiners, let alone get them in triplicate. I sincerely doubt they would be able to get 3 times as many ag science examiners to correct as they currently have.