Eircom - A Scam?

ironclaw

Hi Folks,

I've been with Eircom Broadband for about 3 years now. Was rather happy with the service and was looking forward to their NGB scheme which was rolled out in my area about 3 weeks ago. However, my new bill has changed my outlook.

I used to be on a package that gave me 30GB download allowance and an unlimited upload allowance. Unknown to me, and alot of other customers I would imagine, my package (and thus my contract) has changed. As a result this 30GB is now a combined upload and download total.

So if you downloaded 30GB and your upload was 3GB, your total is 33GB and your charged.

I was charged an extra €10 this month as a result of a 5GB over my download limit. What is interesting however is the Eircom stats. I was at 44% usage on Tuesday. By today (Wednesday) I'm at 58%. I haven't done any major downloading and at this rate my router will be off for the remainder of the month.

Eircom can say whatever they want about your download / upload usage because we, as end users, can't monitor it. The ESB gives you a meter so why can't Eircom give us the firmware router upgrade to monitor it.

Its not the €10, its the principal that my contract was changed and a very subtle wording change. Is that not illegal?

Thoughts?

dub45

ironclaw wrote: »

Hi Folks,

I've been with Eircom Broadband for about 3 years now. Was rather happy with the service and was looking forward to their NGB scheme which was rolled out in my area about 3 weeks ago. However, my new bill has changed my outlook.

I used to be on a package that gave me 30GB download allowance and an unlimited upload allowance. Unknown to me, and alot of other customers I would imagine, my package (and thus my contract) has changed. As a result this 30GB is now a combined upload and download total.

So if you downloaded 30GB and your upload was 3GB, your total is 33GB and your charged.

I was charged an extra €10 this month as a result of a 5GB over my download limit. What is interesting however is the Eircom stats. I was at 44% usage on Tuesday. By today (Wednesday) I'm at 58%. I haven't done any major downloading and at this rate my router will be off for the remainder of the month.

Eircom can say whatever they want about your download / upload usage because we, as end users, can't monitor it. The ESB gives you a meter so why can't Eircom give us the firmware router upgrade to monitor it.

Its not the €10, its the principal that my contract was changed and a very subtle wording change. Is that not illegal?

Thoughts?

I am pretty sure that there were posts on here about Eircom writing to people about the change over to the NGB. You should ask Eircom when you were notified about the changes in your Terms and Conditions as you are entitled to be.

there are often posts here about usage monitors that you can download and I am sure someone will link you to one of them.

However the first thing to do is ask Eircom when you were notified about the changes in your Terms and Conditions.

ironclaw

dub45 wrote: »

I am pretty sure that there were posts on here about Eircom writing to people about the change over to the NGB. You should ask Eircom when you were notified about the changes in your Terms and Conditions as you are entitled to be.

Thats a good point. I'm pretty sure I was never informed

there are often posts here about usage monitors that you can download and I am someone will link you to one of them.

Absolutely irrelevant now days. Laptops, iPhones and other net devices in the home can't be monitored. My point is the user cannot monitor their usage. So Eircom can effectively just say your usage was XGB's and you have no come back at all. Imagine they guessed your call time? Or the ESB guessed your usage continually? Eircom should offer at router usage meters as the DD-WRT firmware does at the moment.

dustin2

ironclaw wrote: »

Hi Folks,

I've been with Eircom Broadband for about 3 years now. Was rather happy with the service and was looking forward to their NGB scheme which was rolled out in my area about 3 weeks ago. However, my new bill has changed my outlook.

I used to be on a package that gave me 30GB download allowance and an unlimited upload allowance. Unknown to me, and alot of other customers I would imagine, my package (and thus my contract) has changed. As a result this 30GB is now a combined upload and download total.

So if you downloaded 30GB and your upload was 3GB, your total is 33GB and your charged.

I was charged an extra €10 this month as a result of a 5GB over my download limit. What is interesting however is the Eircom stats. I was at 44% usage on Tuesday. By today (Wednesday) I'm at 58%. I haven't done any major downloading and at this rate my router will be off for the remainder of the month.

Eircom can say whatever they want about your download / upload usage because we, as end users, can't monitor it. The ESB gives you a meter so why can't Eircom give us the firmware router upgrade to monitor it.

Its not the €10, its the principal that my contract was changed and a very subtle wording change. Is that not illegal?

Thoughts?

You Must be downloading Alot of movies and music .. 35GB is alot . you must be downloading 24/7 :eek:

Sanitarium

dustin2 wrote:

You Must be downloading Alot of movies and music .. 35GB is alot . you must be downloading 24/7

35GB a month isn't a lot when you consider HD video streaming, gaming and general day to day browsing. It leaves you with just over 1GB a day and that could easily be reached by watching one too many HD videos on YouTube etc..

dub45

ironclaw wrote: »

Thats a good point. I'm pretty sure I was never informed



Absolutely irrelevant now days. Laptops, iPhones and other net devices in the home can't be monitored. My point is the user cannot monitor their usage. So Eircom can effectively just say your usage was XGB's and you have no come back at all. Imagine they guessed your call time? Or the ESB guessed your usage continually? Eircom should offer at router usage meters as the DD-WRT firmware does at the moment.

You are correct about the "multi downloading" of course. For anyone interested, as a by the way. I notice that the Netgear WNDR3700 has a built in download meter so you would not need to change your firmware.

ironclaw

Sanitarium wrote: »

35GB a month isn't a lot when you consider HD video streaming, gaming and general day to day browsing. It leaves you with just over 1GB a day and that could easily be reached by watching one too many HD videos on YouTube etc..

I have to agree. Not in my defence but I don't download music or video that often. And if I do, I'd know about it. I'd be very net savvy.

jor el

dustin2 wrote: »

You Must be downloading Alot of movies and music .. 35GB is alot . you must be downloading 24/7 :eek:

35GB is nothing. Downloading 24/7 at 8Mbps would do 35GB in less than a day.

Did you migrate the NGB automatically or did you request the change? Can you be put back on the old package?

watty

I have OpenWRT on router and its data usage monitor and graphs agree with the ISP. If anything suggesting slightly higher.

35Gbyte isn't anything like 24/7

2,500 Gbyte is what you would use full belt on a mix of upload and download totalling 8Mbps for a Month.

jay93

Sanitarium wrote: »

35GB a month isn't a lot when you consider HD video streaming, gaming and general day to day browsing. It leaves you with just over 1GB a day and that could easily be reached by watching one too many HD videos on YouTube etc..

35GB aint alot these days with the internet using more flash based websites youtube etc rips through your alllowance

fayer

One question this raises is calibration? If you are using a piece of equipment to meter the usage of a service or product this equipment had to be, in former years, by law certified by the old department of weights and measures (interesting enough even the old pint gases had an individual seal, the sand blasted stamp).

I do not know the current standard, but surly this kit need to be calibrated, if not nothing is stopping firmware bugs in routers screwing customers, or even a rouge operator.

ironclaw

All good points folks, especially the calibration. However my arguement isn't usage, its how its monitored.

1) Eircom gives the end consumer no effective method of verifying their bill.

2) They changed my package with no prior notice and subtly changed from separate to combined upload / download calculations.

ED E

They told us, 3 weeks after the upgrade.

Just got a bill for €16. Which is weird cause we're 24GB over this month (checked 2 days ago) and 80GB over last month. If we were to be billed for last month that'd be almost €160 on a €45 standing bill....

EDIT: We were told in April. Well done Dad reading your mail.

thefinalstage

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

They told us, 3 weeks after the upgrade.

Just got a bill for €16. Which is weird cause we're 24GB over this month (checked 2 days ago) and 80GB over last month. If we were to be billed for last month that'd be almost €160 on a €45 standing bill....

EDIT: We were told in April. Well done Dad reading your mail.

The max they can charge including broadband is 49.99 a month.

ED E

thelastangryman wrote: »

The max they can charge including broadband is 49.99 a month.

Yeah, but excess is on top of that.

ironclaw

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

They told us, 3 weeks after the upgrade.

Just got a bill for €16. Which is weird cause we're 24GB over this month (checked 2 days ago) and 80GB over last month. If we were to be billed for last month that'd be almost €160 on a €45 standing bill....

EDIT: We were told in April. Well done Dad reading your mail.

Thats the same as me. I was quite over in June but didn't get charged under the old broadband package.

You downloaded 80GB of data above your limit! I thought I was over at 4GB over. But I can see how easy it is with the likes of Sky AnyTime, YouTube HD etc.

Solair

I'm on Smart Telecom at the moment and their caps are pretty reasonable 170GB as standard, you can add another 100GB to that for 6.50/month or another 250GB for 12.50/month.

Also, if you exceed your cap they just throttle the connection until you ask to have it reset (for a small fee).

I know they used to be totally unlimited in theory, but it's *far* better than eircom!

UPC have a theoretically unlimited package too.

I think Magnet have something like that as well.

You might be better off changing ISP rather than sticking with eircom driving you mad with very small caps.

ED E

3 heavy users in the house. The account is a business one based in the office adjacent to the house, but we ran a cable across to the house years ago. The business uses a good bit, and me and the other user pick up the rest.

With holidays and all that we went 80GB over the limit, which is currently 30GB btw but due to change it seems.

Lots of youtube, gaming, Soundcloud, internet radio, steam demos, VOIP, bit of uploading too(now included). All adds up.

And yes, we are addicted to the net.

Solair

Heavy internet users really should just ditch eircom though, if at all possible.

If you're in an area with UPC Cable or Smart or Magnet DSL (LLU [unbundled]) I wouldn't think twice about dumping eircom.

30GB is way too small a cap for heavy use.

We've been with Smart for a few months, and other than one outage due to a major fault with a fibre optic cable to our local exchange, we have never had any downtime. The service is spot on, and there's decent support through their forums.
Paying for 12mbit/s and getting it.
Only downside is that they don't do voicemail so we had to use a cordless with an answering machine.

Doom

ironclaw wrote: »

Hi Folks,

I've been with Eircom Broadband for about 3 years now. Was rather happy with the service and was looking forward to their NGB scheme which was rolled out in my area about 3 weeks ago. However, my new bill has changed my outlook.

I used to be on a package that gave me 30GB download allowance and an unlimited upload allowance. Unknown to me, and alot of other customers I would imagine, my package (and thus my contract) has changed. As a result this 30GB is now a combined upload and download total.

So if you downloaded 30GB and your upload was 3GB, your total is 33GB and your charged.

I was charged an extra €10 this month as a result of a 5GB over my download limit. What is interesting however is the Eircom stats. I was at 44% usage on Tuesday. By today (Wednesday) I'm at 58%. I haven't done any major downloading and at this rate my router will be off for the remainder of the month.

Eircom can say whatever they want about your download / upload usage because we, as end users, can't monitor it. The ESB gives you a meter so why can't Eircom give us the firmware router upgrade to monitor it.

Its not the €10, its the principal that my contract was changed and a very subtle wording change. Is that not illegal?

Thoughts?

Did you opt in to the NGB or did it happen automaticly?

ED E

Solair wrote: »

Heavy internet users really should just ditch eircom though, if at all possible.

We are, probably for BT/Voda. UPC dont support our area for anything other than TV and TV+. Drives me nuts.

Doom wrote: »

Did you opt in to the NGB or did it happen automaticly?

Its automatic.

chopperbyrne

In the letter they send out to inform you of the move to NGB, they include a link to download a usage meter to install on your PC.

Also, you might not think you're downloading much, but with sites like youtube now in HD, it's very easy to download a few gig in a day without noticing.

Doom

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

We are, probably for BT/Voda. UPC dont support our area for anything other than TV and TV+. Drives me nuts.



Its automatic.

can you opt out?
I got a call a few weeks ago, asking was I happy with my package or would I like to upgrade for free.....I said No

ED E

Doom wrote: »

can you opt out?
I got a call a few weeks ago, asking was I happy with my package or would I like to upgrade for free.....I said No

Either way, if they've started charging we're changing provider, but thats an interesting question.

Baneblade

once your automaticly moved you cant go back, they remove the old packages from your exchange.
when i put my number into their site to see whats available i only get the ngb packages and the 24mb one.

Bruno2010

chopperbyrne wrote: »

In the letter they send out to inform you of the move to NGB, they include a link to download a usage meter to install on your PC.

Also, you might not think you're downloading much, but with sites like youtube now in HD, it's very easy to download a few gig in a day without noticing.

Hi,

Yeah, you can get it on www.eircom.net/usagemeter
It's near realtime (within 3hrs) so you can track your usage easily and it let you know if you're approaching your limit etc.

The excess usage has a cap ... sooo ... if you're on (for example) 10GB NGB you'll only get charged up to 12GB (€24) and if you're on 30GB NGB you'll only get charged up to 10GB (€20). The unlimited is 250GB FUP

Solair

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

We are, probably for BT/Voda. UPC dont support our area for anything other than TV and TV+. Drives me nuts.

Vodafone at home gets pretty disasterous reviews from users at the moment. Read their boards.ie forum before switching. My relatives have it in Cork City suburbs and it's ridiculously bad compared even to their previous eircom connection.
YouTube, RTE player and 4OD are unusable at peak times as is voip! They're stuck with it in a 12 month contract but will be going to UPC asap

I'd go with an LLU provider if it's possible in your area ie Smart or Magnet.

If voda have "enhanced broadband" which is just eircom's NGB equipment routing your data back into vodafone's network, it might be usable.

If you can get Smart or Magnet LLU they're far better broadband options.
There is no advantage to their bitstream products though (where they use eircom equipment)

ironclaw

Bruno2010 wrote: »

Hi,

Yeah, you can get it on www.eircom.net/usagemeter
It's near realtime (within 3hrs) so you can track your usage easily and it let you know if you're approaching your limit etc.

The excess usage has a cap ... sooo ... if you're on (for example) 10GB NGB you'll only get charged up to 12GB (€24) and if you're on 30GB NGB you'll only get charged up to 10GB (€20). The unlimited is 250GB FUP

Its true, apparently the max excess charge is a total to the next package. So if I go over 30GB, I'll be charged a maximum of €10 which equates to the unlimited bundle. How convenient, I'll have to upgrade...:rolleyes:

The usage meter is useless. It just rehash's the webpage. And there is still no measured mile, its taking Eircom results NOT the usage by your PC. My argument is Eircom should provide an effective method of data usage monitoring in my house so I can verify my bill.

On a side note, how does Eircom monitor usage if they don't monitor Internet usage?

eircom would like to reassure customers that:

• eircom will not monitor customer’s activities at any stage, nor will it place any monitoring equipment or software on its network in order to facilitate this block.
  
• eircom will not provide personal details or any information relating to customers to any third party, including the record companies.

Bruno2010

ironclaw wrote: »

Its true, apparently the max excess charge is a total to the next package. So if I go over 30GB, I'll be charged a maximum of €10 which equates to the unlimited bundle. How convenient, I'll have to upgrade...:rolleyes:

The usage meter is useless. It just rehash's the webpage. And there is still no measured mile, its taking Eircom results NOT the usage by your PC. My argument is Eircom should provide an effective method of data usage monitoring in my house so I can verify my bill.

On a side note, how does Eircom monitor usage if they don't monitor Internet usage?

Just to clarify a point above ... on the 30GB product the max charge is €20 ...

Re your comment on usage monitoring, this is an entirely different thing. The Usage Meter takes note of your bandwidth usage on the network ... not content.

ironclaw

Bruno2010 wrote: »

Just to clarify a point above ... on the 30GB product the max charge is €20 ...

Re your comment on usage monitoring, this is an entirely different thing. The Usage Meter takes note of your bandwidth usage on the network ... not content.

Your correct about the charges. I just couldn't articulate it.

Bandwidth: a data transmission rate; the maximum amount of information (bits/second) that can be transmitted along a channel

So the usage monitor doesn't monitor bandwidth, it monitors data transfer. To monitor data transfer you'd have to monitor the quantity and size of packets being transferred.

vibe666

Solair wrote: »

UPC have a theoretically unlimited package too.

they say they do, but it's actually got a 250gb AUP (combined upload & download) which isn't hard at all to reach on a 30mbps connection.