The Angelus on RTE - Should it be kept or not?

tomasocarthaigh

What do you think of the debate started by Atheist Ireland that the Angelus should not be broadcast by RTE?

I myself think it should be kept, my reasons outlined in my poetry video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHlaXOmjC-4

(With thanks to Fr. Sean Crombie of Tullamore for his informative answer to the probing of the interviewer in Midlands Radio 3's programme today.)

Manic Preacher

Let the Catholic Church pay for advertising it like everyone else, then it can stay, right now it's just free advertising for the church. Bloody ridiculous

passive

Your poll is broken.

No, it should not be kept. I'm not Catholic, nor am I "offended" by it...

DublinWriter

No opinion, and am Catholic

I'm not convinced by your poetry.

As someone who pays the same amount of money for the TV licence as you, why should your particular superstitious beliefs be given more credence than mine or the lack of such beliefs on the part of any other TV licence payer?

Michael Nugent

No opinion, and am Catholic

I have voted for option four as it is the nearest to my position, but I agree with the point made by passive that being offended is not the only reason for a non-Catholic to want the Angelus removed from RTE.

The reason that we in Atheist Ireland are seeking this outcome is not that we are offended by the bells or the idea of people praying, but because it is inappropriate that the State broadcasting authority should broadcast a call to prayer from any religion.

Recent attempts to soften its impact, by illustrating it with nonreligious images and rebranding it as a pause for reflection, simply make it worse. This suggests that people of all religions and none can unite under a Roman Catholic call to prayer.

If RTE was to broadcast a minute of atheist propaganda at prime time every day, most people would intuitively realise that this would be inappropriate. And the problem would be made worse by illustrating atheist propaganda with religious images.

In a religious State, the State broadcasting system would be promoting religion; in an Atheist State, the State broadcasting system would be promoting Atheism. In a secular State, it would do neither, and that is what Atheist Ireland wants to see happen.

As an aside, the Angelus is broadcast at a prime time for advertising rates, and is effectively a free advert for the Roman Catholic Church.

tomasocarthaigh

Yes, and Im not Catholic or offended by it.

Michael Nugent wrote: »

I have voted for option four as it is the nearest to my position, but I agree with the point made by passive that being offended is not the only reason for a non-Catholic to want the Angelus removed from RTE.

The reason that we in Atheist Ireland are seeking this outcome is not that we are offended by the bells or the idea of people praying, but because it is inappropriate that the State broadcasting authority should broadcast a call to prayer from any religion.

Recent attempts to soften its impact, by illustrating it with nonreligious images and rebranding it as a pause for reflection, simply make it worse. This suggests that people of all religions and none can unite under a Roman Catholic call to prayer.

If RTE was to broadcast a minute of atheist propaganda at prime time every day, most people would intuitively realise that this would be inappropriate. And the problem would be made worse by illustrating atheist propaganda with religious images.

In a religious State, the State broadcasting system would be promoting religion; in an Atheist State, the State broadcasting system would be promoting Atheism. In a secular State, it would do neither, and that is what Atheist Ireland wants to see happen.

As an aside, the Angelus is broadcast at a prime time for advertising rates, and is effectively a free advert for the Roman Catholic Church.

I have yet to meet anyone who turned Catholic by watching the Angelus.

"Oooh, those bells are lovely. To hell with Martin Luther... Im throwing my lot in with the Catholics".

- Orange Ollie, The Front Gate of the Kirk, Druncree

"Listen to the beauty of those bells... thats it... Im giving up the auld Jihad and turning Catholic".

- Taliban Taheed, Toa Bora Caves

"Those bells, those bells, those seductive bells... that Jesus dude must have been the Messiah after all and not the shlong we took him to be all this time. Im turning Catholic now".

.
- Yitsak bin Yitsak, Wailing Wall, Jerusalem

I cant imagine any of the former happening!

Also, R.T.E. gets no money for the broadcast - prehaps the best way is for the RTE website to launch a poll (where only people who quote their licence number can vote) to decide the issue?

@ Dublinwriter: Your not convinced? I appreciate that 100%. Its just my view ;-/

sundaypapers

Keep it. It's their best programme. A repeat, naturally.

evenmicheal

Think it should be removed. Trying to make in a minute of reflection for every religion is stupid.

PeterIanStaker

No opinion, and am Catholic

Hearing the Angelus bells is beneficial for me, as it reminds me of the important things in life - The Simpsons

Fuinseog

Yes, and Im not Catholic or offended by it.

I do not like the choice you offer in the poll.it seems to be constructed with a bias towards one particualr view, almost like when the state holds an EU referendum.

most christians pause and reflect at some stage during the day and that does no harm. 60 seconds is not a tragedy for those trying to change christian ireland into secular ireland.

atheists tend to be extremely self centered and represent the mefeinism that will drag down this country. they also never shut up about God.

loike

i think it should be removed, but i dont think i would like the news not being called the 6 1 lol

Tom Fiat

It has gotta go period
what century is this afterall

Fuinseog

Yes, and Im not Catholic or offended by it.

Tom Fiat wrote: »

It has gotta go period
what century is this afterall

what has centurz got to do with anything. majority of irish are catholic. this is a catholic countrz. if atheists don't like it they should f off. they contribute nothing to society anyway.

JuliusCaesar

No, and Im Catholic

Michael Nugent wrote: »

The reason that we in Atheist Ireland are seeking this outcome is not that we are offended by the bells or the idea of people praying, but because it is inappropriate that the State broadcasting authority should broadcast a call to prayer from any religion.

Recent attempts to soften its impact, by illustrating it with nonreligious images and rebranding it as a pause for reflection, simply make it worse. This suggests that people of all religions and none can unite under a Roman Catholic call to prayer.
....
In a religious State, the State broadcasting system would be promoting religion; in an Atheist State, the State broadcasting system would be promoting Atheism. In a secular State, it would do neither, and that is what Atheist Ireland wants to see happen.

As an aside, the Angelus is broadcast at a prime time for advertising rates, and is effectively a free advert for the Roman Catholic Church.

Do you know, AtheistIreland, I was born (over 50 years ago) and brought up atheist (by atheist parents) in Ireland, and have now brought up a mainly atheist family. I am sick sore and tired of 'atheists' ranting on about the Catholic church in this country. All it shows is how emotionally effected they are - it's like someone ranting on about an ex 5 years after the breakup.

I like the Angelus! Take what you want from it! Mostly I don't see it - not watching TV at that time - but when I do, I appreciate the stimulation to think about the larger issues. On the radio, it's a time-check for whatever watch/ car clock I have.

GET OVER IT!

Yous are a bunch of anti-Irish-version-of-Catholicism as far as I can see. There's nothing like an ex-Catholic atheist - but it's not necessarily what the rest of atheists are like. You think atheism is new - but we have always been there! Not necessarily ranting about it. Yous are like the opposite of Born-Again Christians, whereas everyone else is just getting on with life. There's no harm in thinking about whatever people regard as spirituality - which to me is anything larger than practicality or consumerism. (and no, I don't believe in the 'universe' (as in the universe will provide) or any other kind of ****e. Me and my everyday concerns vs me as part of nature, as a tiny bit of the universe, the end point of my ancestors, the kind of world we're handing on to our kids = my version of spirituality.)

beans

Fuinseog wrote: »

what has centurz got to do with anything. majority of irish are catholic. this is a catholic countrz. if atheists don't like it they should f off. they contribute nothing to society anyway.

Tarring all athiests with one brush is no better than I saying that "all catholics support child-abuse", or some other ludicrous statement. Now more than ever, Irish people need to come together - not to be driven into opposing camps and factions. I contend that the above statement is the kind of thinking that contributes nothing to society.

United we stand, and all that. Better to direct our attention at what's happening at the top of the power system in the country than focussing on what deity I believe in. These divisions keep us weak as a populace.

On topic - I think the angelus should stay up until the point where there is a new constitution drawn up, one that removes Christian God's central position wrt the state. Until then, it may as well stay, since the Irish Republic will remain 'a catholic countrz' in effect. Religion and statehood should be kept separate for the good of catholics and non-catholics alike.

KittyMcGee

No, and Im Catholic

I was born Catholic. Even though I'm not anymore, the angelus always had special meaning to me. I don't care what minorities think of it, it's a tradition here in Ireland and whether you're Catholic or not, it's a call for not just prayer but silence also. It should be respected.
The fact that it's been changed sickened me. We're a Catholic country, for God's sake.

Go on. Hate on me for enjoying an old tradition I don't even believe in.

jdivision

No we're not a Catholic country. And no the minority religions do not oppose it, in fact they support it.

whatdoicare

Yes, and Im not Catholic or offended by it.

I thought I voted to get rid of the angelus but think I voted wrong.......anyho, should be a choice, keep it = no tv license. Asking everyone to pay for it is unfair.

KittyMcGee

No, and Im Catholic

jdivision wrote: »

No we're not a Catholic country. And no the minority religions do not oppose it, in fact they support it.

Catholicism is the most practiced religion in Ireland. The constitution of Ireland states that the state recognises this but accept the practice of other religions.

And I think that the poll above will prove you wrong on that comment.

jdivision

No, you're wrong. The State is a Republic, it is not a Catholic country. And some random poll doesn't change that.

KittyMcGee

No, and Im Catholic

jdivision wrote: »

No, you're wrong. The State is a Republic, it is not a Catholic country. And some random poll doesn't change that.

Yes. It is a Republic. And you have failed to notice that Ireland is mostly Catholic? Gosh, I bet you're one of those people who don't care for the fact that Ireland is loosing it's culture. I'd bet anything you don't care about Irish either? But that's a different argument.

And the poll says a lot. You can hardly turn around and tell me that all the other non-Catholics you've met have sat down and told you they were not offended by the Angelus?

jdivision

I think you've made your viewpoint very clear. It's generalistic and lacks facts. The other major religions ALL support the Angelus because it's a time for spiritual reflection. Do I agree with it? No. Just because a country is majority Catholic doesn't make it Catholic. The implication is very very different.
And you don't know anything about me

KittyMcGee

No, and Im Catholic

jdivision wrote: »

I think you've made your viewpoint very clear. It's generalistic and lacks facts. The other major religions ALL support the Angelus because it's a time for spiritual reflection. Do I agree with it? No. Just because a country is majority Catholic doesn't make it Catholic. The implication is very very different.
And you don't know anything about me

I'd like to point out that you have been very factual either. The reason why the Angelus was changed was because it showed religious symbols and offended people. So quite obviously, people didn't appreciate it as being only a time for spiritual reflection.

Fattes

I AM NOT A CATHOLIC AND I AM NOT OFFENDED BY IT, Can we have this option addded?

It needs to go it is a relic of a by gone age when the church tryied to rule Irish lives and Buggered its youth.

How about RTE leave it there as long as it is followed by an islamic call to prayer.

Ireland is not a catholic country, based on the church there are allot of a la carte catholics and those who only turn to the church for Weddings,Funerals etc

Taltos

No opinion, and am Catholic

Personally I am offended by all religions so voted for it to be removed. They never really bothered me - but seeing the movement in the US against the theory of evolution, or seeing how the catholic church spins from one paedo priest in the US to Ireland and now to Belgium - think we really just need to close the door on all that fluffy crap.

However for those of you who enjoy the daily reminder of how sinful you are and how you must spill your guts to your local priest go ahead listen to it - or better yet play it on headphones and pray that when you are kneeling in the confession box shamefully whispering how you lusted after Mrs. O'Donnell's shiny white wellies that you are not asked to come and play with a candle in the sacresty.

FYI - I am not an atheist, nor am I agnostic. In fact I refuse to be labelled by these little boxes. Instead I am a human and I dream of the day when we finally break free of all misguided shackles - catholic - protestant - muslim - scientologist (trust a sci-fi author to create a religion to prove that humans are gullible and enjoy handing over money to any institution)...

If you want to attack me - go ahead, I don't mind. It is a free country (provided you agree with the consensus) after all.

jdivision

KittyMcGee wrote: »

I'd like to point out that you have been very factual either. The reason why the Angelus was changed was because it showed religious symbols and offended people. So quite obviously, people didn't appreciate it as being only a time for spiritual reflection.

Who didn't? Your point is nonsensical. Show proof or GTFO. your points are all in your own head. Please provide some factual basis.

KittyMcGee

No, and Im Catholic

jdivision wrote: »

Who didn't? Your point is nonsensical. Show proof or GTFO. your points are all in your own head. Please provide some factual basis.

Oh I see now. -sigh- Get back to 4Chan.

tim_holsters

Manic Preacher wrote: »

Let the Catholic Church pay for advertising it like everyone else, then it can stay, right now it's just free advertising for the church. Bloody ridiculous

Good point, never thought of the advertising angle.

dave1982

No problem whatsoever with it.Ireland is mainly a catholic country its a minute of tv a day.If you don't want to watch it switch over the channel.

SparrowTown

Fuinseog wrote: »

what has centurz got to do with anything. majority of irish are catholic. this is a catholic countrz. if atheists don't like it they should f off. they contribute nothing to society anyway.

rubbish

Linguo

While I'm not catholic and prefer having my own faith and not really subscribing to any religion I don't find the Angelus offensive. I think it's a nice moment to contemplate the day and be quiet whatever religion you are, so perhaps they could change it to a moment of reflection for whatever faith you are, or if you don't have a faith per se, to just think about the day and life for a moment.