The Angelus on RTE - Should it be kept or not?

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Linguo wrote: »

While I'm not catholic and prefer having my own faith and not really subscribing to any religion I don't find the Angelus offensive. I think it's a nice moment to contemplate the day and be quiet whatever religion you are, so perhaps they could change it to a moment of reflection for whatever faith you are, or if you don't have a faith per se, to just think about the day and life for a moment.

I'm sorry but do you really "reflect" for one minute every day at 6 o'clock. How can you reflect when the banging noise anyway and what does "reflect" mean. I find that hard to believe.

Why does a television station have to give you this refelction time? If you're so keen on reflecting, why don't you do it yourself in your own time.

Linguo

hotmail.com wrote: »

I'm sorry but do you really "reflect" for one minute every day at 6 o'clock. How can you reflect when the banging noise anyway and what does "reflect" mean. I find that hard to believe.

Why does a television station have to give you this refelction time? If you're so keen on reflecting, why don't you do it yourself in your own time.

A tv doesn't HAVE to give me this reflection time, I'm simply saying often if it comes on I'll take the moment to think about the day, I don't find it offensive. I didn't say I do it every day, I said if it happens to be on if I'm on that station or at home at that time. Of course I reflect all the time, you seem to be missing the point. If you find that hard to believe, sorry for you.

hotmail.com

Linguo wrote: »

A tv doesn't HAVE to give me this reflection time, I'm simply saying often if it comes on I'll take the moment to think about the day, I don't find it offensive. I didn't say I do it every day, I said if it happens to be on if I'm on that station or at home at that time. Of course I reflect all the time, you seem to be missing the point. If you find that hard to believe, sorry for you.

I'm not missing any point. And you haven't bothered to describe what you mean by "reflect"?

If you "reflect" at other times, then presumably you're indifferent to the cancellation of the angelus because you don't need it to do this so called reflection (whatever that is).

Linguo

The thread is about people's opinion's on whether it should be kept or not, whether people find it offensive or not if you're not catholic. I'm saying I don't find it offensive and can still take something from it even if I'm not catholic. That's my opinion so let's leave it there shall we.

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Linguo wrote: »

The thread is about people's opinion's on whether it should be kept or not, whether people find it offensive or not if you're not catholic. I'm saying I don't find it offensive and can still take something from it even if I'm not catholic. That's my opinion so let's leave it there shall we.

Still haven't got what "reflect" actually means.

tomasocarthaigh

Yes, and Im not Catholic or offended by it.

A quick throw the eye analysis of the topic seems to suggest that 2/3 Catholics want it kept, while the same ratio of non Catholics want it gone.

Of the Dont Knows, 2/3 are Catholic(ish!!!)

What conclusions if any we can draw from this is that it is 50/50 in the overall population as to keep it or not, and so I for one cant see the harm in keeping it.

But thats just me... a humble poet!!!

easynote

I used to think it should be kept, then I thought it should be removed.

Now I think it is too late to get rid of it. It might as well be kept.

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tomasocarthaigh wrote: »

A quick throw the eye analysis of the topic seems to suggest that 2/3 Catholics want it kept, while the same ratio of non Catholics want it gone.

Of the Dont Knows, 2/3 are Catholic(ish!!!)

What conclusions if any we can draw from this is that it is 50/50 in the overall population as to keep it or not, and so I for one cant see the harm in keeping it.

But thats just me... a humble poet!!!

Same conclusion can be arrived at in terms of getting rid of it, it will do no harm.

AudreyHepburn

I am Catholic and personally think with the state the country is in at the moment worrying over 60s seconds of bells ringing is really silly.

You can change the channel easily if you don't want to hear it. But it really isn't doing any harm.

I hardly call 60 seconds of TV indoctrination or forcing religion down anyone's throats.

But then in my own opinion AI won't be happy until religion is completely abolished in this country so even this wouldn't please them.

Sharkey 10

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I am Catholic and personally think with the state the country is in at the moment worrying over 60s seconds of bells ringing is really silly.

You can change the channel easily if you don't want to hear it. But it really isn't doing any harm.

I hardly call 60 seconds of TV indoctrination or forcing religion down anyone's throats.

But then in my own opinion AI won't be happy until religion is completely abolished in this country so even this wouldn't please them.

No i dont think its doing any harm , but what did catholics do before the advent of rte? Surely one can look at their watch and recite the angelus.
the problems in this country can most definatley be partly acredited to religion and personally i would like to see a fully secular society here but that is not my choice.

AudreyHepburn

Sharkey 10 wrote: »

No i dont think its doing any harm , but what did catholics do before the advent of rte? Surely one can look at their watch and recite the angelus.
the problems in this country can most definatley be partly acredited to religion and personally i would like to see a fully secular society here but that is not my choice.

The problem I have with making things secular is where does it end?

You want religion removed from the public sphere so you start by taking religion from schools, from the media but what next? If religion should be a private thing should the churches, cathedrals and chapels be gotten rid of? What about grave yards? Or any building that bears any kind of religious mark? Should we be forced to remove any religious emblems from our homes just in case a non-religous person sees it and becomes offended? Do you exact punishment whenever some-one says in public 'Oh my god' or 'Jesus, Mary and Joseph'. Do you stop people having weddings, funerals and christenings? Do we stop celebrating Easter, Christmas etc? Do we stop people wearing crosses around their necks?

Where does it stop. Once the Angelus goes something else will end up in the line of fire.

It sounds drastic but to me it's only a short stop from making things secular to pushing religion underground completely and making it something that you have to hide and be ashamed of.

That's my worry and I do think there are people who would like to see that happen.

onlyrocknroll

As an atheist, I've always thought that my fellow atheists are a little dogmatic and perhaps go on about their beliefs (or lack there of) a little excessively. My attitude is: Why upset people who think differently to me? That Richard Dawkins fellow ought to relax.

That's until I read through this thread.

Somebody asks the fairly innocuous question of whether we should retain the Angelus on Rte and suddenly there's an avalanche of paranoid atheist bashing. (Not from every pro-Angelus poster I admit).

Aren't some of these charges a little hysterical and reactionary?

We're obsessed with religion?
We think atheism is new but it's not?
This is a Catholic country, if you don't like it f**k off? :eek:

And my favourite
We contribute nothing to society?

Sharkey 10

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The problem I have with making things secular is where does it end?

You want religion removed from the public sphere so you start by taking religion from schools, from the media but what next? If religion should be a private thing should the churches, cathedrals and chapels be gotten rid of? What about grave yards? Or any building that bears any kind of religious mark? Should we be forced to remove any religious emblems from our homes just in case a non-religous person sees it and becomes offended? Do you exact punishment whenever some-one says in public 'Oh my god' or 'Jesus, Mary and Joseph'. Do you stop people having weddings, funerals and christenings? Do we stop celebrating Easter, Christmas etc? Do we stop people wearing crosses around their necks?

Where does it stop. Once the Angelus goes something else will end up in the line of fire.

It sounds drastic but to me it's only a short stop from making things secular to pushing religion underground completely and making it something that you have to hide and be ashamed of.

That's my worry and I do think there are people who would like to see that happen.

Your second paragraph is going way over board. Have a look at my post i never suggesting any of this or even hinting at it. I said i would like a secular society but im not going to infrige on anyones freedoms as that is what i rejected when i left spirituality behind me.
As for religion in schools , I believe it should be thought in history class .Yes there are probably people who would like to see all religion eradicated. These people do so when they see certain religious activities infringing on other things and this is where broadcasting the angelus or mass on telly comes in.

Someone else may be able to answer this , im sure i heard years ago that there was to be no religious broadcast on rte?

onlyrocknroll

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

You want religion removed from the public sphere so you start by taking religion from schools, from the media but what next? If religion should be a private thing should the churches, cathedrals and chapels be gotten rid of? What about grave yards? Or any building that bears any kind of religious mark? Should we be forced to remove any religious emblems from our homes just in case a non-religous person sees it and becomes offended? Do you exact punishment whenever some-one says in public 'Oh my god' or 'Jesus, Mary and Joseph'. Do you stop people having weddings, funerals and christenings? Do we stop celebrating Easter, Christmas etc? Do we stop people wearing crosses around their necks?

...

That's my worry and I do think there are people who would like to see that happen.

Slippery slope arguments like this are inherently silly. In other countries that have followed secular paths nobody has knocked down religious buildings or anything of that type. Turkey had (at least until recently) one of the strictest secular governments and is a thoroughly Islamic society.

Actually the only historic examples that I can think of of religions being discriminated against in the way that you've described are...
a) Totalitarian (mainly communist) regimes.
b) By other religions, ie. from Lutheran iconoclasm to the Mayo librarian case.

Dominant religions tend to be far more discriminatory towards minority faiths than secular minded people are.

Mike 1972

KittyMcGee wrote: »

I was born Catholic.

No you werent !

Cú Giobach

I'm not catholic (anymore) and am not offended by it, (why the f*ck would someone's religious call to prayer offend someone else ).
I hope the people who voted that they are offended, are offended by all religious "moments" like this equally. Is this like that idiocity of wishing people "happy holidays" so as not to "offend" non Christians at christmas.
I'm totally atheistic and think this is just a case of people being offended for the sake of it. (Get over yourselves).
I couldn't care less whether it stays or goes. It's got nothing to do with me.
I'm one of those lucky people who has the amazing ability to turn off something on the telly that I'm not interested in, instead of being offended by it. :rolleyes:

Fergus Quinlan

I have spent some time in Kupang, Indonesia, the city is 80% christian and 20% Muslim, the country is predominantly Muslim. Five times a day beginning 04.00 in the morning the high minarets called for prayer, not as originally by a human voice but now by hundreds of watts of speakers and amplifiers. During Ramadan it was not just a five minute call to prayer but they would broadcast the whole hour of service. The noise and intrusion were ghastly and carried over the entire city and into every room, it was impossible to avoid. The Christians with whom I spoke were angry and offended by it. They joked that the reason the minarets with their loudspeakers were so high was to avoid Christian rocks. However they explained that at least now there was peace, as a few years ago the Muslims had soaked the priest in petrol and burnt him. The Christians had reacted by burning out a load of Muslim cars and houses. All a bit too familiar I thought!

I accept that the problem with the Angelus is not as bad as that. However lessons about how people of different belief systems are offended by impositions by others should be learned. Our Republic, with its Green, white and Orange flag a symbol for peace between diversity should be enlightened enough to recognize that one system, even if the majority must not show triumphalism over others. Our main radio station should not support this position.

On another front I am the proud father of two wonderful daughters, I find the Angelus, its words and its icon-ism offensive to them and to females in general (50% of our nation ) as it elevates the inanities of virgin birth and thus casts a slur on normal replication. It is offensive to me. The imposition of such triumphalism should cease, RTE please act. The Catholic church could do itself a favor and it needs all the favors it can get by requesting it demise.

Lennonist

Simple answer to this one. Yes of course The Angelus should be removed from the public service airwaves. Not everyone in Ireland is or has been a Catholic.

UDP

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I am Catholic and personally think with the state the country is in at the moment worrying over 60s seconds of bells ringing is really silly.

Should we not take an interest in the 60 seconds even more considering the state the country is in? I think any 60 second slot that is watched by 318,000 viewers is going to be worth a bit of money - money that both RTE and the government desperately need.

Lennonist

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I am Catholic and personally think with the state the country is in at the moment worrying over 60s seconds of bells ringing is really silly.

You can change the channel easily if you don't want to hear it. But it really isn't doing any harm.

I hardly call 60 seconds of TV indoctrination or forcing religion down anyone's throats.

But then in my own opinion AI won't be happy until religion is completely abolished in this country so even this wouldn't please them.

That is not the answer to this issue. Yes of course there might be more grave concerns to be attending to, but that doesn't mean the archaic and silly practise of playing the angelus on the national airwaves should continue in this day and age. It's well past the time that it should be abandoned.

delthedriver

As a multicultural country I think it is time the Angelus is dropped from RTE.
It serves little purpose, nothing similar appears on BBC, ITV or SKY, why should it appear on our National Station? Perhaps it may be offensive to nonCatholics, be they Muslim , Jewish, or Protestant.

Bodhran

delthedriver wrote: »

As a multicultural country I think it is time the Angelus is dropped from RTE.
It serves little purpose, nothing similar appears on BBC, ITV or SKY, why should it appear on our National Station? Perhaps it may be offensive to nonCatholics, be they Muslim , Jewish, or Protestant.

Songs of Praise every Sunday on BBC1?

delthedriver

Bodhran wrote: »

Songs of Praise every Sunday on BBC1?

The Angelus is somewhat different to Songs of Praise.
Songs of Praise is a Programme , not dissimilar to Mass or Morning Service on RTE 1 on Sunday morning.:)

DublinWriter

No opinion, and am Catholic

The management at RTE seem to be deeply conservative Catholic - just look at how Dave Fanning was sidelined by the organisation after his rant about the church on his film review slot on the Marianne Finucane show back in 2010.

delthedriver

DublinWriter wrote: »

The management at RTE seem to be deeply conservative Catholic - just look at how Dave Fanning was sidelined by the organisation after his rant about the church on his film review slot on the Marianne Finucane show back in 2010.

RTE need to remember that they are being subsidised by the license payers.
It is time for them to wake up and realise that we are in 2012. The playing of the Angelus was perhaps acceptable 50 years ago, Ireland has changed , we are a multicultural state now. I feel the Angelus is a little insulting to Non Catholics living in this country.

mopi

Will someone please take the microphone off George Hook when the topic is anything to do with religion

Elmo

There are so many other problems with broadcasting in Ireland that the Angelus pales in significance.


The failure of Saorview to provide a free alternative to UK subscription channels
The waste of money on the DSO/ASO campaign in 2010, 2011 and 2012
The debt write down given to TV3 by NAMA
The fact that it took the Minister Rabbitte 13 months not to make a decision on RTÉjr's move from RTÉ TWO
The money spent on TG4HD but the fact its not available on all platforms including Saorview
The list is endless.

fryup

most importantly perhaps......

DOES ANYONE out there ACTUALLY PRAY DURING THE ANGELUS ?????

i reckon its .00000000001% of the population

PS - is rte the only station in Europe that shows it?

Green Giant

I want the Angelus kept for one simple reason...my village is featured in it! It's the one with the stone monument being polished and the grass being cut along by the river

jimd2

fryup wrote: »

most importantly perhaps......

DOES ANYONE out there ACTUALLY PRAY DURING THE ANGELUS ?????

i reckon its .00000000001% of the population

PS - is rte the only station in Europe that shows it?

I think that you need to go back to school....

1% of the population is about 45,900 people. So .00000000001% of the population is about 0.000000459 of a person.

I think that you are a little out there.;)