Mascherano - Keep or Flog?

mike65

Warper wrote: »

When you see a donkey like Poulsen playing in his role, how can they sell Mascherano. Poulsen was an awful signing. I saw him play lots of times for Juve last year and he didnt play well once.

and he was within a wrong refereeing decision of opening his account for his new club having not played football since the WC tonight!

SM01

I'd like him to be stay and be happy to play for the club but if he's adamant about leaving, well, I think Steven Defour and £3-5 million for additional signings would soften the blow so it's akin to a 6 month old's karate chop. If the requisite funds aren't forthcoming, I'd like LFC to stand firm and be sticklers on their valuation price.

d22ontour

Liverpool thread tbh

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

It's strange, out of all the names that I recognise from those who voted no, I consider all but one to be complete idiots.

Yawn.

Maybe the other 19 of us should report you for personal abuse. :rolleyes:

curry-muff

Liverpool thread tbh

d22ontour wrote: »

Yawn.

Maybe the other 19 of us should report you for personal abuse. :rolleyes:

Was quite tempted, just getting insulted for my own personal opinion. I know he's going to turn this around, united fan bla bla but I picked no for my own reasons firstly being the fact that that I do see Mascherano as an overrated player, certainly in terms of the price Liverpool are looking for him. Secondly with the acquisition of Poulsen, I dont believe you will see as much of a difference in the team with him gone. And finally because as other people have stated, this year will be the best year to get such a high amount for him, he clearly isn't getting any younger.

Ill save reporting for one of the other 18 people he offended.

jesus_thats_gre

No

d22ontour wrote: »

Yawn.

Maybe the other 19 of us should report you for personal abuse. :rolleyes:

Work away. Ironically enough, you were the one.

Carcharodon

Liverpool thread tbh

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

It's strange, out of all the names that I recognise from those who voted no, I consider all but one to be complete idiots.

:rolleyes:

Great informative post there, keep up the good work :rolleyes:
That says more about you than it does the people you are trying to insult via the internet.

jesus_thats_gre

No

Carcharodon wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Great informative post there, keep up the good work :rolleyes:
That says more about you than it does the people you are trying to insult via the internet.

Thanks. You turning it around on me like that has really shown me.


It goes withou saying to be honest. If you can't see the value in a player like Mascherano, you need to get your head checked. Argue all you want whether is worth nearly 30m but he is one of the best in the world at what he does and loosing him would be a significant dent in the clubs ambitions to win titles or cups.

Carcharodon

Liverpool thread tbh

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Thanks. You turning it around on me like that has really shown me.


It goes withou saying to be honest. If you can't see the value in a player like Mascherano, you need to get your head checked. Argue all you want whether is worth nearly 30m but he is one of the best in the world at what he does and loosing him would be a significant dent in the clubs ambitions to win titles or cups.

One can obviously see the value of having him there, no one is really arguing against that but there are other considerations to take into account.
I feel he is overrated, that is not to say he is bad but people seem to always believe in the hype ever since he came here, for me he can be careless on the ball and he may throw himself around the pitch but it is not always in the most efficient manner. He is very good and extremely effective at times but not up there with some of the greats over the years, I will have to see more of him too as I found it tough to watch some of the Liverpool games in recent years.

I am also of the opinion that if a player wants out for whatever reason then let him go, obviously for the right price.

jesus_thats_gre

No

And I did say "of the names I recognise".

d22ontour

Liverpool thread tbh

curry-muff wrote: »

I picked no for my own reasons firstly being the fact that that I do see Mascherano as an overrated player, certainly in terms of the price Liverpool are looking for him

I said no looking at his personal life aspect of it.

From a footballing viewpoint it would be a no brainer.Would be pretty hard to replace a quality player like him as i feel he is one of the best DMs about.
My biased view would be to sell him as Pool losing a world class player would only be a good thing. :pac:

Carcharodon

Liverpool thread tbh

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

And I did say "of the names I recognise".

So now I am a nobody

Wish I was part of the clique :pac:

LuckyLloyd

No

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

It's strange, out of all the names that I recognise from those who voted no, I consider all but one to be complete idiots.

lol, I bet we're thinking of the same dude too!

Xavi6

d22ontour wrote: »

I said no looking at his personal life aspect of it.

Why not? Clearly it's a factor in where he plays so it should be a factor for the club trying to keep him. It can't just be discredited.

Re: him being worth c. 30 million, he's only worth what someone is willing to pay and the only ones who may stump up the cash (City and Madrid) are already stock piled with DMCs.

It realistically only leaves Inter in terms of interest from big hitters so they can afford to lower their valuation.

Liverpool will never get close to 30 million for him so it's really a moot point.

adox

No ones enquired about him yet as far as I know so he may well end up staying.

After the Ireland match he more or less said goodbye to Liverpool. Its hard to have a player who doesnt want to be there. Having said that, hes still put in a couple of great performances for Liverpool since those comments.

I`d sell him if he wants to go. The fixation with DM is really becoming an irritant in the last few years and I think they are hugely overvalued.

Should Liverpool sell him? Yes
Will they sell him? Probably not as I dont see anyone paying big money for him.

LuckyLloyd

No

adox wrote: »

No ones enquired about him yet as far as I know so he may well end up staying.

After the Ireland match he more or less said goodbye to Liverpool. Its hard to have a player who doesnt want to be there. Having said that, hes still put in a couple of great performances for Liverpool since those comments.

I`d sell him if he wants to go. The fixation with DM is really becoming an irritant in the last few years and I think they are hugely overvalued.

Should Liverpool sell him? Yes
Will they sell him? Probably not as I dont see anyone paying big money for him.

O Rly?

Please elaborate on this statement, and provide numerous examples of successful teams during the past 10 years who have succeeded without them. Failing that, comment on current tactical approaches of the better coaches / teams in the world, and contextualize why DMs are not integral to what they are doing. Thanks in advance.

adox

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

O Rly?

Please elaborate on this statement, and provide numerous examples of successful teams during the past 10 years who have succeeded without them. Failing that, comment on current tactical approaches of the better coaches / teams in the world, and contextualize why DMs are not integral to what they are doing. Thanks in advance.

Try reading the post again,especially the part you have in bold. Hugely overvalued are the words I used. I didnt state anywhere in my post that they arent needed.

Thanks in advance.

LuckyLloyd

No

adox wrote: »

Try reading the post again,especially the part you have in bold. Hugely overvalued are the words I used. I didnt state anywhere in my post that they arent needed.

Thanks in advance.

Eh yeah, and I'm saying you're wrong. Particularly when consideration is paid to the relative depth of world beaters who play the position.

Warper

Liverpool thread tbh

mike65 wrote: »

and he was within a wrong refereeing decision of opening his account for his new club having not played football since the WC tonight!

Wow-wee. Marlon Harewood scored twice last weekend too.

I take it you know nothing about him so with a ridiculous comment like that. Ask any one that keeps an eye on Serie A and they will tell you the guy is very average. He couldn't even make the starting XI in the Juve team last year and that was one of the worst seasons Juve ever had. They were woeful, when he came on they got even worse - a shocking buy for a team like Liverpool.

Warper

Liverpool thread tbh

Btw the question was would you rather see Mascherano as a Liverpool player. I chose No as I hope they get rid of him and Barca take him instead.

Mascherano would be imo in Liverpool's Top 3 players, behind Torres and Gerrard (Reina would be close too). They should do everything in their power to keep him, which im sure they are. I didnt see the game last night, did he play? If so that is a good sign as his value is lessened due to being cup-tied.

stumpypeeps

Warper wrote: »

Wow-wee. Marlon Harewood scored twice last weekend too.

I take it you know nothing about him so with a ridiculous comment like that. Ask any one that keeps an eye on Serie A and they will tell you the guy is very average. He couldn't even make the starting XI in the Juve team last year and that was one of the worst seasons Juve ever had. They were woeful, when he came on they got even worse - a shocking buy for a team like Liverpool.

Seen a lot of him with Sevilla, he was a good player. Did particulalry well in his first year there. Didn't see much of him for Juventus but I think he had issues with the coach.

I think he started most of Juve's league games by the way. Despite the coach asking him to leave.

He is a useful player who knows how to play in the centre of midfield. Likes a tackle too.

stumpypeeps

Warper wrote: »

Btw the question was would you rather see Mascherano as a Liverpool player. I chose No as I hope they get rid of him and Barca take him instead.

Mascherano would be imo in Liverpool's Top 3 players, behind Torres and Gerrard (Reina would be close too). They should do everything in their power to keep him, which im sure they are. I didnt see the game last night, did he play? If so that is a good sign as his value is lessened due to being cup-tied.

If you knew much about football you'd know Mascherano would be cup tied for the Europa league. Something that wouldn't affect his move to Inter or Barca.

Warper

Liverpool thread tbh

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Seen a lot of him with Sevilla, he was a good player. Did particulalry well in his first year there. Didn't see much of him for Juventus but I think he had issues with the coach.

I think he started most of Juve's league games by the way. Despite the coach asking him to leave.

He is a useful player who knows how to play in the centre of midfield. Likes a tackle too.

He didnt start most of Juve's games last year and when he did, more often than not he was taken off. There must be some Juve fans on here or at least people that would have seen him play to verify this guy's quality. The guy is very average as Liverpool fans will see pretty quickly. Why is it that Liverpool fans hardly ever criticise anything that Liverpool do? You can go on believing that Poulsen is a good player if you want, you will convince yourself in time.

Regards, the Cup-tied thing, thanks, I honestly forgot about that. I thought playing in a European comp meant that you couldnt play in either of the Euro comps.

stumpypeeps

Warper wrote: »

He didnt start most of Juve's games last year and when he did, more often than not he was taken off. There must be some Juve fans on here or at least people that would have seen him play to verify this guy's quality. The guy is very average as Liverpool fans will see pretty quickly. Why is it that Liverpool fans hardly ever criticise anything that Liverpool do? You can go on believing that Poulsen is a good player if you want, you will convince yourself in time.

Regards, the Cup-tied thing, thanks, I honestly forgot about that. I thought playing in a European comp meant that you couldnt play in either of the Euro comps.

I watched Poulsen for two years at Sevilla. I'm using that as a basis for my judgement. He may turn out to be poor but if he recaptures his form from Spain I think he'd be a good squad player. £5 million for him, we're not expecting Pele.

LuckyLloyd

No

Poulsen sucks. He's on the downslope of his career. Unfortunately I feel that last season will be the benchmark for his form going forward.

stumpypeeps

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Poulsen sucks. He's on the downslope of his career. Unfortunately I feel that last season will be the benchmark for his form going forward.

How much of him did you watch last season? I doubt you seen him kick a ball.

Warper

Liverpool thread tbh

stumpypeeps wrote: »

If you knew much about football you'd know Mascherano would be cup tied for the Europa league. Something that wouldn't affect his move to Inter or Barca.

Can someone clarify this? If a player plays in the Europa League does that mean that he can play in the CL? Just reading there the reason that Hodgson didnt play Aquilani last night was the fear that he would be cup-tied as he is planning on loaning him back to Italy. I dont know which team.

Warper

Liverpool thread tbh

stumpypeeps wrote: »

If you knew much about football you'd know Mascherano would be cup tied for the Europa league. Something that wouldn't affect his move to Inter or Barca.

UEFA club football regulations state that, with very few exceptions, players who play in a European Club competition are subsequently cup-tied with respect to all European football for the remainder of the season.

niallo27

No

Warper wrote: »

Can someone clarify this? If a player plays in the Europa League does that mean that he can play in the CL? Just reading there the reason that Hodgson didnt play Aquilani last night was the fear that he would be cup-tied as he is planning on loaning him back to Italy. I dont know which team.

99.9% sure that if you play Europa you can't play CL so it would affect any transfers if he played last night

stumpypeeps

niallo27 wrote: »

99.9% sure that if you play Europa you can't play CL so it would affect any transfers if he played last night

If you get knocked out of the Champions League then all your players are cup tied for the Europa cup. Harsh.

Further, as per Champions League regulation 17.18, one player per club who would normally be cup-tied can be registered and eligible to play, so long as his previous club did not field him in the same competition, meaning that this player can represent two different clubs in the UEFA Cup and Champions League.

Essentially your right. However, its possible to play one player in both competitions. So Mascherano would be ok to play in the Champions league.

Warper

Liverpool thread tbh

stumpypeeps wrote: »

If you get knocked out of the Champions League then all your players are cup tied for the Europa cup. Harsh.



Essentially your right. However, its possible to play one player in both competitions. So Mascherano would be ok to play in the Champions league.

So essentially you were wrong.

stovelid

Flog.

With a cat-o-nine-tails.

stumpypeeps

Warper wrote: »

So essentially you were wrong.

Essentially. I'll eat my underpants.

LuckyLloyd

No

stumpypeeps wrote: »

How much of him did you watch last season? I doubt you seen him kick a ball.

:rolleyes:

I watched him play all three of Denmark's games at this world cup, and saw him in action at least six times for Juventus last season (Seria A is covered on ESPN). Particular low points were abysmal performances against Milan and Sampdoria, and he was also horrendous when brought on at half time against Bayern Munich in the Champions League.

He sucks.

eagle eye

No

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I watched him play all three of Denmark's games at this world cup, and saw him in action at least six times for Juventus last season (Seria A is covered on ESPN). Particular low points were abysmal performances against Milan and Sampdoria, and he was also horrendous when brought on at half time against Bayern Munich in the Champions League.

He sucks.

I severely doubt Roy Hodgson brought in somebody who sucks unless he feels he has a lot to offer. I'm not claiming to know anything about him by the way but I thought he played well the other night.

carlop

Liverpool thread tbh

I voted no, as in they should sell him, simply because they have already bought Poulsen, and it makes little sense having Poulsen, Lucas and Mascherano in the same squad. Had they not already bought Poulsen, then it would be a different story.

In big games such as a match against one of the 'big 4' or a big champions league game, I think Mascherano is the most effective player in world football. If Liverpool's short-term objective is to challenge for top-level honours, he has to stay.

However, if the short-term objective is to restore a bit of stability and aim for fourth, I think as a Liverpool fan I'd be willing to accept an offer of 20m + if the funds would be reinvested in the playing squad.

To finish fourth, Liverpool don't need to beat the Chelseas and Uniteds, they need to consistently pick up three points against the likes of Stoke and Wolves. While Mascherano is a great player, these aren't the games he excels in, and I feel the money could be put to use improving other parts of the squad.

On a side note, having witnessed what appears to be one of the worst bits of business I've seen in a long time, Aquilani for a year and 4.5 mil for Poulsen, there's no reason to believe any money raised would be spent wisely!

therokerroar

Liverpool thread tbh

carlop wrote: »

In big games such as a match against one of the 'big 4' or a big champions league game, I think Mascherano is the most effective player in world football.

:pac:

That's surely a wind-up?

Essien is the correct answer.

Mr Alan

No

Essien has played **** all in the last 2 seasons. He is a prime example of someone living off their rep.

carlop

Liverpool thread tbh

therokerroar wrote: »

:pac:

That's surely a wind-up?

Essien is the correct answer.

Not a wind-up. Maybe actually I'll stretch it to one of the most effective, but certainly top 5.

therokerroar

Liverpool thread tbh

Mr Alan wrote: »

Essien has played **** all in the last 2 seasons. He is a prime example of someone living off their rep.

Essien is twice the player that Mascherano is, IMO.

If he's 'living off his rep' as you say, it's for good reason.

Then again, football is all about opinions.

mike65

mike65 wrote: »

and he was within a wrong refereeing decision of opening his account for his new club having not played football since the WC tonight!

Warper wrote: »

Wow-wee. Marlon Harewood scored twice last weekend too.

I take it you know nothing about him so with a ridiculous comment like that.

Eh? I just stated what happened, nothing else. Don't throw your toys out of the pram.

Handsome Bob

No

Keep him, watching him against Arsenal last week just reminded me how good the chap is. Also, one would hope we'll be filthy rich in two years time so I wouldn't be worried about him running down his contract. :pac::pac::pac: