The Playstation 3 has been "jailbroken" MOD NOTE POST 220

Myrddin · 05-09-2010 7:10pm

R_H_C_P wrote: »

So, I dont have a clue about any of this, can someone tell me what pro's are there for this "Jailbreak"? Whats the point of it etc.

Tbh it's all in the first post, on page one.

Richard Dower · 07-09-2010 10:07am

Toldja! http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a273960/sony-issues-ps3-security-update.html

Daraa · 07-09-2010 10:24am

You get get around this using the proxy from the otheros mess.

gizmo · 07-09-2010 10:41am

And so begin the firmware wars, thanks a mill pirates, now we have to put up with all this **** because you're too cheap to buy games despite being able to afford the most expensive console on the market. :rolleyes:

Nice one out of Sony anyway, hopefully they find a way to close the last part of the loophole before CFW starts being released.

theothers108 · 07-09-2010 11:23am

You're being illegal

Inquitus · 07-09-2010 11:31am

gizmo wrote: »

And so begin the firmware wars, thanks a mill pirates, now we have to put up with all this **** because you're too cheap to buy games despite being able to afford the most expensive console on the market. :rolleyes:

Nice one out of Sony anyway, hopefully they find a way to close the last part of the loophole before CFW starts being released.

Pandora's box is open now, and there's nothing Sony can do to shut it. At best they can prevent anyone pirating games from online play and perhaps from playing the latest and greatest future game releases, at worst CFW will get round this and they can't do anything.

Anyone with a 3.41 or below firmware effectively has an open PS3, and ignoring piracy, this also means genuine benefits - ability to play MKVs for instance.

madmoe · 07-09-2010 12:04pm

Have ALWAYS wanted the ability to play .MKV on my PS3!!

Anyone got PSFreedom working on their Nexus One? Does it have to be rooted?

http://psfreedom.com/wiki/index.php?title=Device_compatibility_list

gizmo · 07-09-2010 12:46pm

Inquitus wrote: »

Pandora's box is open now, and there's nothing Sony can do to shut it. At best they can prevent anyone pirating games from online play and perhaps from playing the latest and greatest future game releases, at worst CFW will get round this and they can't do anything.

Anyone with a 3.41 or below firmware effectively has an open PS3, and ignoring piracy, this also means genuine benefits - ability to play MKVs for instance.

All true, I highly doubt they'll stop trying to plug the hole though.

As for the FW issue, doesn't the hack only work on 3.41 and not below?

Myrddin · 07-09-2010 12:54pm

gizmo wrote: »

As for the FW issue, doesn't the hack only work on 3.41 and not below?

I'd imagine they will try incorporate previous f/w's at a later stage. This is exactly how the PSP scene started out in a lot of ways, and we all know how that developed.

In some good news, one of the authors of NullDC & PCSX2 has stated he's getting back into coding on them...for the PS3. Maybe he can do a better job of PS2 compatability than Sony did with post-1st gen consoles. I wonder how well a Dreamcast emu would run on PS3 hardware.

See, some good non-piracy developments can also happen.

gizmo · 07-09-2010 1:13pm

EnterNow wrote: »

I'd imagine they will try incorporate previous f/w's at a later stage. This is exactly how the PSP scene started out in a lot of ways, and we all know how that developed.

True

EnterNow wrote: »

In some good news, one of the authors of NullDC & PCSX2 has stated he's getting back into coding on them...for the PS3. Maybe he can do a better job of PS2 compatability than Sony did with post-1st gen consoles. I wonder how well a Dreamcast emu would run on PS3 hardware.

Not very well I'd imagine unless they get some experienced Cell guys on the team. The possibilities are certainly interesting although the legalities are still up in the air since anything developed will have to use the leaked SDK which would make it an easy target for Sony.

EnterNow wrote: »

See, some good non-piracy developments can also happen.

While some interesting projects can spring from a development like this, I still don't think it's worth it for the harm it will cause.

Myrddin · 07-09-2010 2:45pm

gizmo wrote: »

Not very well I'd imagine unless they get some experienced Cell guys on the team.

The PsGroove 1.1 update will have an "exciting new feature for devs", and will be out today it seems. Oh the intrigue :pac:

Edit - It's out now, they've implemented the ability to dump ramspace, for code analysis & development. Also it seems they are developing a free toolchain/sdk...which means the leaked Sony one won't have to be used eventually.

gizmo · 07-09-2010 2:55pm

EnterNow wrote: »

The PsGroove 1.1 update will have an "exciting new feature for devs", and will be out today it seems. Oh the intrigue :pac:

Edit - It's out now, they've implemented the ability to dump ramspace, for code analysis & development. Also it seems they are developing a free toolchain/sdk...which means the leaked Sony one won't have to be used eventually.

Interesting indeed. In terms of the performance needed to emulate the DC though I'd imagine they'll need to be pretty handy with their Cell programming, hence my above comment.

Myrddin · 07-09-2010 3:01pm

gizmo wrote: »

Interesting indeed. In terms of the performance needed to emulate the DC though I'd imagine they'll need to be pretty handy with their Cell programming, hence my above comment.

I'm not sure if it's a complete re-write, or some kind of port with a Cell interpreter. Last I read up on it (a while ago), there are interpreters for porting programmes onto different hardware etc. Remains to be seen I guess, the Dreamcast & PS2 are tough cookies to emulate though, even the x86/x64 code is far from perfect.

gizmo · 07-09-2010 3:55pm

EnterNow wrote: »

I'm not sure if it's a complete re-write, or some kind of port with a Cell interpreter. Last I read up on it (a while ago), there are interpreters for porting programmes onto different hardware etc. Remains to be seen I guess, the Dreamcast & PS2 are tough cookies to emulate though, even the x86/x64 code is far from perfect.

Tough cookies is one hell of a euphemism for PS2 development, natively at least. While getting the emulators up and running is one thing though, having them run efficiently will be the biggest issue.

Varik · 07-09-2010 4:42pm

The proxy server bypass was used the last time with the otheros, why has Sony not prevented that from working this time.

Star Bingo · 07-09-2010 5:50pm

*snip*

madmoe · 07-09-2010 5:52pm

Star Bingo wrote: »

*snip*

The custom F\W when it comes out should do the job....

gizmo · 07-09-2010 5:56pm

madmoe wrote: »

The custom F\W when it comes out should do the job....

It's incredibly naive to think that Sony won't be able to detect CFW and just ban the console from PSN, proxy or not.

johnny_ultimate · 07-09-2010 6:02pm

OK guys, discussion of this topic is necessary, but please refrain from 'piracy' talk, like providing links or tips on how to play...ahem... 'backups'. I'm sure boards doesn't want to encourage this, and could ultimately get you and the site in trouble! Obviously big news, but talk about the topic as it develops as opposed to anything illegal!

Myrddin · 07-09-2010 6:03pm

gizmo wrote: »

It's incredibly naive to think that Sony won't be able to detect CFW and just ban the console from PSN, proxy or not.

Agreed, the sooner the better bannings start. Using this to pirate games & then use a free PSN service for multi-player enjoyment just deserves pain.

Star Bingo · 07-09-2010 6:13pm

i'd be petrified of em detecting custom firmware if it were possible and banning my a/c. i didn't chock up level 14 for nowt - as a 'potential pirate' that is; any one of the millions out there.

Varik · 07-09-2010 6:21pm

Star Bingo wrote: »

i'd be petrified of em detecting custom firmware if it were possible and banning my a/c. i didn't chock up level 14 for nowt - as a 'potential pirate' that is; any one of the millions out there.

They won't just ban the account they ban the ps3 as well.

Star Bingo · 07-09-2010 6:30pm

of course, that too - its just that 'merely' banning my a/c would have the same impact as a brick in said scenario, its not worth the potential risk. am sure many of the potential millions value their achievements just as much.. its a strong deterrent n i'd imagine they're glad they introduced em now

madmoe · 07-09-2010 7:02pm

Star Bingo wrote: »

of course, that too - its just that 'merely' banning my a/c would have the same impact as a brick in said scenario, its not worth the potential risk. am sure many of the potential millions value their achievements just as much.. its a strong deterrent n i'd imagine they're glad they introduced em now

I hear you. However for people like me who really only ever play single player I think it's worth the risk...

gizmo · 07-09-2010 7:33pm

Varik wrote: »

They won't just ban the account they ban the ps3 as well.

Pity they can't brick the console while they're at it. It's amazing how much people will complain when a company goes after their own stuff when said people couldn't care less who they steal from themselves.

Inquitus · 07-09-2010 7:40pm

gizmo wrote: »

Pity they can't brick the console while they're at it. It's amazing how much people will complain when a company goes after their own stuff when said people couldn't care less who they steal from themselves.

We the consumer get screwed left, right and center. TBH I have no issues with screwing the corporations back when the opportunity arises. Karma at work, and ultimately its their negligence which allows it to come to pass.

Myrddin · 07-09-2010 7:42pm

gizmo wrote: »

Pity they can't brick the console while they're at it. It's amazing how much people will complain when a company goes after their own stuff when said people couldn't care less who they steal from themselves.

It's amazing isn't it. Now that everything has quietened down to an extent, the whole scene has turned into a greed fest. The accounts & hardware should be perma-banned, the console crippled like the 360 Hard Drive installs, and all future games made incompatable with it.

That would give the kids something to moan about.

Myrddin · 07-09-2010 7:44pm

Inquitus wrote: »

We the consumer get screwed left, right and center. TBH I have no issues with screwing the corporations back when the opportunity arises. Karma at work, and ultimately its their negligence which allows it to come to pass.

In fairness, to run the exploit you have to have BOUGHT a PS3, used or otherwise, the console was still sold. And I would imagine there's been a substantial upsurge in console sales last week. It's the 3rd party game devs I pity, that's where the losses occur.

Inquitus · 07-09-2010 7:47pm

EnterNow wrote: »

In fairness, to run the exploit you have to have BOUGHT a PS3, used or otherwise, the console was still sold. And I would imagine there's been a substantial upsurge in console sales last week. It's the 3rd party game devs I pity, that's where the losses occur.

I guess ultimately the amount of piracy will be proportional to the ease of doing it. My Xbox360 is not modded at all, no drive firmwares no nothing. My PSP is softmodded as is my Wii, and likely my PS3 will be too. The ultimate irony is I have 3 kids under the age of 6 and the last game I played was Red Dead Redemption (PS3) in June!

gizmo · 07-09-2010 7:56pm

Inquitus wrote: »

We the consumer get screwed left, right and center. TBH I have no issues with screwing the corporations back when the opportunity arises. Karma at work, and ultimately its their negligence which allows it to come to pass.

The only people you're screwing are the developers, those people who work insane hours under large amounts of pressure to develop the titles you seem happy to steal, that's a great example for your kids. :rolleyes:

And no, it's not "their negligence" which caused this it's cheap ***** who can afford PCs, HDTVs, consoles and all the rest yet will probably make the excuse that they can't afford to pay for all of these games and they wouldn't have bought them if they couldn't pirate them. Stop making excuses, you're stealing software whether you want to admit it or not.

Also, on a side note, it's highly ironic that people will complain about corporate greed when the first iteration of this hack cost $150 yet is now available for free for use on a wide range of devices. :rolleyes:

Myrddin · 07-09-2010 7:56pm

Inquitus wrote: »

I guess ultimately the amount of piracy will be proportional to the ease of doing it. My Xbox360 is not modded at all, no drive firmwares no nothing. My PSP is softmodded as is my Wii, and likely my PS3 will be too. The ultimate irony is I have 3 kids under the age of 6 and the last game I played was Red Dead Redemption (PS3) in June!

Exactly, that's why these piracy in a box type solutions bother me so much. June? Get gaming man, before your flamed :pac:

Myrddin · 07-09-2010 8:00pm

gizmo wrote: »

The only people you're screwing are the developers, those people who work insane hours under large amounts of pressure to develop the titles you seem happy to steal, that's a great example for your kids. :rolleyes

He only said his PSP & Wii are soft-modded, how does that mean he's screwing anyone? Mine are soft-modded too, but not used for piracy...does that mean I'm screwing someone over?

You'll see I agree with nearly all of your previous points on the matter, but modding doesn't necessarily = piracy. If it did, there would be no forum on boards.ie for me to moderate.

gizmo · 07-09-2010 8:04pm

EnterNow wrote: »

He only said his PSP & Wii are soft-modded, how does that mean he's screwing anyone? Mine are soft-modded too, but not used for piracy...does that mean I'm screwing someone over?

You'll see I agree with nearly all of your previous points on the matter, but modding doesn't necessarily = piracy. If it did, there would be no forum on boards.ie for me to moderate.

Given his posts in the thread thus far I suppose one could call it an educated guess that they're being used to play "backup" games. That being said it was more of a general "you" directed at people using the modified version of the jailbreak to play "backup" games.

Myrddin · 07-09-2010 8:11pm

gizmo wrote: »

Given his posts in the thread thus far I suppose one could call it an educated guess that they're being used to play "backup" games. That being said it was more of a general "you" directed at people using the modified version of the jailbreak to play "backup" games.

Ah I see, my mistake

Someone just released an FTP server, with read/write access to nearly everything. Sorry Inquitus, shameless newsbreak theft there

Varik · 07-09-2010 8:12pm

gizmo wrote: »

Pity they can't brick the console while they're at it.

Don't see why they can't, the licence(which is what any software is) was voided as soon as a person uses one of these and any right you have to uses the PS3 OS is gone.

gizmo · 07-09-2010 8:17pm

Varik wrote: »

Don't see why they can't, the licence(which is what any software is) was voided as soon as a person uses one of these and any right you have to uses the PS3 OS is gone.

Terms of Use violation for the OS is an interesting one actually. The reason I didn't think they could get away with it was because, up until a few minutes ago, I could have sworn Apple got stung legally for attempting this on the iPhones a few years ago. Evidently they didn't and, on the contrary, are still developing methods to remotely disable them.

Inquitus · 07-09-2010 8:18pm

gizmo wrote: »

Given his posts in the thread thus far I suppose one could call it an educated guess that they're being used to play "backup" games. That being said it was more of a general "you" directed at people using the modified version of the jailbreak to play "backup" games.

My PSP was dug out of a cupboard having gathered dust for 3 years about 6 mths ago and modded for the craic, I just used it to play capcom old arcade ROMS from when I was a kid, its again gathering dust. Carrier Airwing and SFII were ftw thought

The kids play the Wii, though I did install games I owned to the usbloader, mainly because kids + CD's = disaster. They are too young to need more than a few games, and I don't have time for the Wii myself, so I have never downloaded any.

I have nothing against Piracy though, all the development houses are now massive corporations, the same as BP and co. The days of small dev houses are long gone with games costing millions up front, and they screw every last penny out of us anyways. I buy my games on Steam due to the kids destroying DVDs issues, and I resent being charged a premium on a shop price for what is a digital copy with none of the associated costs of a shop sale.

Myrddin · 07-09-2010 8:23pm

Varik wrote: »

Don't see why they can't, the licence(which is what any software is) was voided as soon as a person uses one of these and any right you have to uses the PS3 OS is gone.

Why would they want to brick it though? I reckon they'd much rather cripple some features, meaning you had to buy any future games used on the console. At least they'll still get 1st party rights/3rd party royalties etc.

Inquitus · 07-09-2010 8:27pm

I also forgot to add I take great umbrage at games etc. being deliberately sold on fragile media prone to degrading over time and easily destroyed by simple accidents.

Varik · 07-09-2010 8:28pm

gizmo wrote: »

I buy my games on Steam due to the kids destroying DVDs issues, and I resent being charged a premium on a shop price for what is a digital copy with none of the associated costs of a shop sale.

Steam is cheaper than a shop most of the time and have frequent sales with ridiculous value, the only reason other like Sony and MS have the price the same or greater than shops is because they can't undercut them without pissing off the people who sell the consoles.

Inquitus · 07-09-2010 8:30pm

Varik wrote: »

Steam is cheaper than a shop most of the time and have frequent sales with ridiculous value, the only reason other like Sony and MS have the price the same or greater than shops is because they can't undercut them without pissing off the people who sell the consoles.

Steam is cheaper for old games, always more expensive than the cheapest shops for newly released games, mainly for the same reason you mention above.

gizmo · 07-09-2010 8:30pm

Inquitus wrote: »

I have nothing against Piracy though, all the development houses are now massive corporations, the same as BP and co. The days of small dev houses are long gone with games costing millions up front, and they screw every last penny out of us anyways. I buy my games on Steam due to the kids destroying DVDs issues, and I resent being charged a premium on a shop price for what is a digital copy with none of the associated costs of a shop sale.

Ah, what we have here is simply a lack of understanding then. Development houses are far from massive corporations unfortunately, what you are thinking of, in the context of your description anyway, are the small number of large publishers worldwide. These are the companies which fork out the huge development costs for the latest games, whether they are internal studios or third party studios. In either case if a game does not preform as well as expected for whatever reason, it is the developers who will get the axe, not upper management. These are the people who are affecting every time you download a game.

As for the cost of digital sales, it may seem odd that they are not cheaper however remember that whatever saving is made on cutting out the retailer, wholesaler and packaging, it is replaced with the fact that you can redownload the game over their service as many times as you'd like, automatically patch it whenever you need to and purchase it from the comfort of your own home. Those benefits to me, are completely worth it.

Inquitus · 07-09-2010 8:36pm

gizmo wrote: »

In either case if a game does not preform as well as expected for whatever reason, it is the developers who will get the axe, not upper management. These are the people who are affecting every time you download a game.

To coin a Donald Rumsfeld quote, Piracy is a "Known Known" and is factored into sales expectations on any platform. Devs will lose their jobs when they write a poor game which fails to meet expectations. Jailbreaking an iPhone is easy, but only 1 in 10 are jailbroken, PS3 piracy is going to be harder than iPhone piracy, at the end of the day its probably not going to be that material.

Varik · 07-09-2010 8:41pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Why would they want to brick it though? I reckon they'd much rather cripple some features, meaning you had to buy any future games used on the console. At least they'll still get 1st party rights/3rd party royalties etc.

I don't get it, how would crippling features make you need to buy new games. New games will probably be unable(for a while) to be played on modded consoles as there will be newer security for them.

there will be a few kinds of people that will use this

1: fully hombrew who don't care about psn or retail games.

2: gamers who have real games already and really do just want to back them up.

3: pirates who buy some games (online)

4: pirates who buy no games.

5: most of the above.

Starting off with 4 & 1, What do Sony care they won't be getting more money off the pirate/homebrewers so the chance to make them buy a new ps3 is good for them.
Number 3 and 2 have an investment on the ps3 and would probably buy a new one given that they must know the risks of modding, kinda the same way 360 users keep buying after rrod.

gizmo · 07-09-2010 8:46pm

Inquitus wrote: »

To coin a Donald Rumsfeld quote, Piracy is a "Known Known" and is factored into sales expectations on any platform. Devs will lose their jobs when they write a poor game which fails to meet expectations. Jailbreaking an iPhone is easy, but only 1 in 10 are jailbroken, PS3 piracy is going to be harder than iPhone piracy, at the end of the day its probably not going to be that material.

The supposition that it is factored into sales figures is unfortunately false. On a related note, with the introduction of piracy on the PS3 do you think these companies will be forecasting lower sales for their titles? Do you find this fair?

No, developers lose their jobs when the game doesn't sell. It could be an extremely well received game critically but if it doesn't sell, they're ****ed.

Given that the PS3 can now be cracked using everything from a mobile phone to a calculator, I wouldn't class it as hard at all unfortuantely.

Myrddin · 07-09-2010 8:48pm

Varik wrote: »

I don't get it, how would crippling features make you need to buy new games.

Well for a start, if a "term of use violation" could be made stand up in court, a simple background patch to disable to consoles USB ports could be an option, as a consequence of the violation. Then it's a case of update to play the latest games, or don't (assuming future games have mandatory requirements). Your more likely to buy a new game, than a new console. Crippling will NOT happen.

I doubt any of the above will happen though, it's a hardware & account ban, like it or not kinda thing which I assume will be the route they go.

Myrddin · 07-09-2010 8:49pm

gizmo wrote: »

Given that the PS3 can now be cracked using everything from a mobile phone to a calculator, I wouldn't class it as hard at all unfortuantely.

I tend to agree, it's WAY too easy. If a PSP port ever happens, it's the DS flash cart thing all over again.

Inquitus · 07-09-2010 8:57pm

gizmo wrote: »

No, developers lose their jobs when the game doesn't sell. It could be an extremely well received game critically but if it doesn't sell, they're ****ed.

Just because a game is critically well received doesn't mean it will sell well. Piracy's impact on game sales is not as high as one would think. It's likely no matter what, that PSN will not be in-scope for pirates, MW2 is what an 8 hour game without online play? It will be a massive disincentive to pirates

Given that the PS3 can now be cracked using everything from a mobile phone to a calculator, I wouldn't class it as hard at all unfortuantely.

You need rooted Android phones to do it, when it's released on the iPhone it will take a jailbroken iPhone to do it etc. It requires some technical knowledge to complete, and to maintain is going to require lots of fecking about with CFW etc, its not going to be like an R4 is on a DS.

All you have to do to jailbreak an iPhone is go to a webpage and yet still only 1 in 10 have done it, stats tell us. This is far harder than that, and imo will see far less take-up, couple in the lack of online play and the loss of trophy whoring etc. and I don't think you'll see anything more than a couple of % of Playstations playing pirated games.

Out of interest does anyone have any stats on what % of Wii's are softmodded? I would put the PS3 exploit on a par with that difficulty wise in broad brush estimation.

Varik · 07-09-2010 8:58pm

gizmo wrote: »

The supposition that it is factored into sales figures is unfortunately false.

So hotels don't account for theft either

, I'd better stop stealing towels then and you know.......TVs.

Myrddin · 07-09-2010 9:01pm

Inquitus wrote: »

It requires some technical knowledge to complete, and to maintain is going to require lots of fecking about with CFW etc, its not going to be like an R4 is on a DS.

For now yes, but I wouldn't expect that to remain the case if any of these clones see the light of day. Opening the box it arrives in will be the most technically challenging thing about it. Ok it won't be like the flash card scene, but it's definitely too easy to do and will have more people doing it than say, an xbox 360 jtag or a drive flash.

The Playstation 3 has been "jailbroken" *MOD NOTE POST 220*

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The Playstation 3 has been "jailbroken" MOD NOTE POST 220