Food before training?

shipwreck

Im looking for a bit for advise for pre-gym eating food.

For the last few weeks I work out with a PT twice a week.
After my monday session in which before hand I had sugar-free granola, nat yougurt, banana,big salad and soup, I was fecked by the end of the session...nearly passed out!
What would be good to eat so that I have loads of energy for the hour....and I need lots of energy..my trainer is hardcore!!!
Im trying to take it easy on the carbs if poss!

Thanks

Mellor

Personally I don't like to eat a whole lot before a big session. I find it uncormfortable.
Maybe a bananna and some protein a hour before

gavtron

From the stickies:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67563426&postcount=38

martialarts

trying to stay away from carbs is not an option,after all its what the body needs for energy,personally i have about 1 hour beforehand a bowl of oats,then maybe a bout half hour beforehand a big orange with a protein drink.

the orange and oatmeal are slow digesting carbs,so taking them an hour and a half hour beforehand should hit you at the right time,unlike white bread sandwich or something like that which is full of fast acting carbs,which usually doesnt last very long and there is usually a crash of the body afterwards.(feeling tired,fatigued)

hope this helped.

Mellor

martialarts wrote: »

trying to stay away from carbs is not an option,after all its what the body needs for energy,personally i have about 1 hour beforehand a bowl of oats,then maybe a bout half hour beforehand a big orange with a protein drink.

Of course staying away from carbs is an option. Carbs aren't the bodies only energy source. There is also protein, if you must eat something, or the body's fat stores are another fuel option if you feel ok avoiding food.

Giggipaws

Hello,

I do not recommend large meal in the last 4 hours before exercise either. However, I do recommend carbohydrates 2-3hrs before your exercise but the meal should not be big - I usually would have sunflower/rye bread sandwich, with some light stuff in it (no eggs for example, as to digest yolk takes a while and it is considered a heavy food), and some fruits, or yogurt drink with muesli, etc
Also, it is very important to drink at least 400 ml of water in the last 2hrs before exercise - being well hydrated makes a huge difference!

I do not think that protein shake will give you too much of energy because:
- 90% proteins are digested in small intestine - so they start to be digested 4-8hrs after you ate them, no use for you to eat protein before exercise
- more importantly, proteins are NOT a source of energy - their main function is to provide material for growth and repair. For your body to start to use them as energy source you would need to be starving - after no carbohydrates and fat left in your body your muscle mass would be 'processed and digested' - but by that stage you really do not exercise anymore

The primary source of energy for your muscles is glycogen - which is synthesized from carbohydrates (sugars, starchy foods, etc). It is important to refill glycogen stores after they were depleted during your workout session. Anything you eat 4 hrs before your exercise is NOT what gives you the energy for that exercise, unless your exercise lasts more than 90 minutes... Today energy comes from what you ate yesterday!

If you learn how to manage properly your glycogen stores, you are on the best way to enjoyable exercising without 'almost pass out' moments.

If you are interested to know bit more about types of food to eat before and after exercise, see my post on low and high Glycaemic index.

Happy exercising
Giggi

martialarts

Giggipaws wrote: »

Hello,

I do not recommend large meal in the last 4 hours before exercise either. However, I do recommend carbohydrates 2-3hrs before your exercise but the meal should not be big - I usually would have sunflower/rye bread sandwich, with some light stuff in it (no eggs for example, as to digest yolk takes a while and it is considered a heavy food), and some fruits, or yogurt drink with muesli, etc
Also, it is very important to drink at least 400 ml of water in the last 2hrs before exercise - being well hydrated makes a huge difference!

I do not think that protein shake will give you too much of energy because:
- 90% proteins are digested in small intestine - so they start to be digested 4-8hrs after you ate them, no use for you to eat protein before exercise
- more importantly, proteins are NOT a source of energy - their main function is to provide material for growth and repair. For your body to start to use them as energy source you would need to be starving - after no carbohydrates and fat left in your body your muscle mass would be 'processed and digested' - but by that stage you really do not exercise anymore

The primary source of energy for your muscles is glycogen - which is synthesized from carbohydrates (sugars, starchy foods, etc). It is important to refill glycogen stores after they were depleted during your workout session. Anything you eat 4 hrs before your exercise is NOT what gives you the energy for that exercise, unless your exercise lasts more than 90 minutes... Today energy comes from what you ate yesterday!

If you learn how to manage properly your glycogen stores, you are on the best way to enjoyable exercising without 'almost pass out' moments.

If you are interested to know bit more about types of food to eat before and after exercise, see my post on low and high Glycaemic index.

Happy exercising
Giggi

thank you for this information i second this.

Khannie

Mellor wrote: »

Of course staying away from carbs is an option.

It should be banned. If I were the gym moderator I would ban it. Carbs are great.

/me waits for Eileen

Will Heffernan

Mellor wrote: »

Of course staying away from carbs is an option. Carbs aren't the bodies only energy source. There is also protein, if you must eat something, or the body's fat stores are another fuel option if you feel ok avoiding food.

It is true that staying away is an option....it is just not a very good option.

I've seen people do this a lot...whether they are just on the whole 'carbs are the devils work' kick or whatever the latest diet trend is...personally I just think it's...how should I say this....unwise (how is that mods? I didn't say dumb or retarded or anything like that...I think I am getting the hang of this whole interweb thing).

You can absolutely get through a session without 'carbs'....but why would you just 'get through' a session.

People do this and their sessions just suck...yes, they finish it...but if they had just fueled themselves properly prior to training they'd have gotten a lot more work done and the quality of the work would be better...how could that not beat....just getting through a session?

Will Heffernan

Giggipaws wrote: »

Hello,

I do not recommend large meal in the last 4 hours before exercise either. However, I do recommend carbohydrates 2-3hrs before your exercise but the meal should not be big - I usually would have sunflower/rye bread sandwich, with some light stuff in it (no eggs for example, as to digest yolk takes a while and it is considered a heavy food), and some fruits, or yogurt drink with muesli, etc
Also, it is very important to drink at least 400 ml of water in the last 2hrs before exercise - being well hydrated makes a huge difference!

I do not think that protein shake will give you too much of energy because:
- 90% proteins are digested in small intestine - so they start to be digested 4-8hrs after you ate them, no use for you to eat protein before exercise
- more importantly, proteins are NOT a source of energy - their main function is to provide material for growth and repair. For your body to start to use them as energy source you would need to be starving - after no carbohydrates and fat left in your body your muscle mass would be 'processed and digested' - but by that stage you really do not exercise anymore

The primary source of energy for your muscles is glycogen - which is synthesized from carbohydrates (sugars, starchy foods, etc). It is important to refill glycogen stores after they were depleted during your workout session. Anything you eat 4 hrs before your exercise is NOT what gives you the energy for that exercise, unless your exercise lasts more than 90 minutes... Today energy comes from what you ate yesterday!

If you learn how to manage properly your glycogen stores, you are on the best way to enjoyable exercising without 'almost pass out' moments.

If you are interested to know bit more about types of food to eat before and after exercise, see my post on low and high Glycaemic index.

Happy exercising
Giggi

I could write a article on all that is wrong with this post This is the usual...little bit of information is a dangerous thing issue.

Today energy comes from what you ate yesterday!

Really? Are you sure about that?

If anyone is really interested in all the other things that are wrong in this single post I'm quite happy to go through it in detail.

G86

Will Heffernan wrote: »

It is true that staying away is an option....it is just not a very good option.

You can absolutely get through a session without 'carbs'....but why would you just 'get through' a session.

I like you already.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

If anyone is really interested in all the other things that are wrong in this single post I'm quite happy to go through it in detail.

Work away....

Will Heffernan

G86 wrote: »

I like you already.

That's a first

Work away....

Too time consuming....better to just ignore it and move on.

Bit's are right....bits are wrong...just not great advice. Better to just forget it and move on. I wouldn't even know where to start.

davmol

Will Heffernan wrote: »

That's a first

I wouldn't even know where to start.

At the start is always a good spot

Will Heffernan

davmol wrote: »

At the start is always a good spot

OK

Giggipaws wrote: »

Hello,
I do not recommend large meal in the last 4 hours before exercise either.

WTF?

How is that for a start?

brianthebard

Will Heffernan wrote: »

People do this and their sessions just suck...yes, they finish it...but if they had just fueled themselves properly prior to training they'd have gotten a lot more work done and the quality of the work would be better...how could that not beat....just getting through a session?

I like most of your posts but this particular issue is just way to subjective/personal to make a pronouncement on it one way or the other. I've trained after fueling up with carbs, 20 minutes after eating, 2 hours after eating, while low carbing, and while fasted, and it doesn't make any difference. I hit a front squat pb fasted, that's how little it matters - to me at least.
I don't find I have any less or more energy if I'm low carbing or fasted when training, it just feels the same from start to finish, where I sometimes felt more fatigued by the end of a session where I ate beforehand. Its a personal reaction and the op and others would be better off experimenting with what they eat rather than just guessing that one thing is the best based on other people's posts.
The only thing that postively impacted the energy I have while training is having a good whack of caffeine beforehand or having a sports drink while training.

Will Heffernan

brianthebard wrote: »

I like most of your posts but this particular issue is just way to subjective/personal to make a pronouncement on it one way or the other.

That's why I said....of course you can...but why would you.

I fight...I've done sessions in every conceivable state....from fully loaded to way beyond complete glycogen depletion and everything in between.

This is one of those topics where the OP should probably clarify whether they are talking about doing:
a) 60 mins of Oly lifting.
b) 60 mins of Power Lifting
c) 60 mins of Body Building
d) 60 mins of Intervals
e) etc etc etc.

I've done pure strength/power sessions fully depleted...no problem at all...but if I was doing an MMA session that Barry was putting me through...you want to bet you house that session is not getting finished without proper fuelling.

I've trained after fueling up with carbs, 20 minutes after eating, 2 hours after eating, while low carbing, and while fasted, and it doesn't make any difference. I hit a front squat pb fasted, that's how little it matters - to me at least.

Have no problem with that at all. A pure strength/power session can be done that way without it being detrimental to the session itself...where I see the problem is in the recovery from the session in this case...if you were tio remain depleted etc...but I agree...with the session you are describing it would make little difference at the actual time of the session.

I don't find I have any less or more energy if I'm low carbing or fasted when training, it just feels the same from start to finish, where I sometimes felt more fatigued by the end of a session where I ate beforehand.

Session dependent I'd say...it could be that you actually just trained harder when you were fully fuelled which goes to the point I was making.

Its a personal reaction and the op and others would be better off experimenting with what they eat rather than just guessing that one thing is the best based on other people's posts.

Experimenting is good....but there are certain things about physiology that are pretty much just fact.

The only thing that postively impacted the energy I have while training is having a good whack of caffeine beforehand or having a sports drink while training.

Mood altering substances are good? Is that what you are saying?

Khannie

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I've done pure strength/power sessions fully depleted...no problem at all...but if I was doing an MMA session that Barry was putting me through...you want to bet you house that session is not getting finished without proper fuelling.

I would like to fully and completely agree with this. At "full" fighting fitness (i.e. very fit) I have done a pads session fully glycogen depleted and it was hilariously bad.



Dear Carbs,

I love you.

Sincerely,

Khannie.

brianthebard

Will Heffernan wrote: »

That's why I said....of course you can...but why would you.

Well that's what I was getting at, I would because it doesn't affect my training. But if another person does find it affects their training then clearly as you say, don't do it.

I fight...I've done sessions in every conceivable state....from fully loaded to way beyond complete glycogen depletion and everything in between.

This is one of those topics where the OP should probably clarify whether they are talking about doing:
a) 60 mins of Oly lifting.
b) 60 mins of Power Lifting
c) 60 mins of Body Building
d) 60 mins of Intervals
e) etc etc etc.

I've done pure strength/power sessions fully depleted...no problem at all...but if I was doing an MMA session that Barry was putting me through...you want to bet you house that session is not getting finished without proper fuelling.

Absolutely, op needs to give more info. More examples of how depending on your training the last meal you had might not be as big as deal in one instance versus the other.

Session dependent I'd say...it could be that you actually just trained harder when you were fully fuelled which goes to the point I was making.

I don't think so (at all), but neither of us can prove our point in this instance - unless of course you're offering to monitor me for a few months as a scientific experiment.

The above might open another tin of worms however in that people might feel mentally better haven eaten before training, while another person might not have the same association and jsut get on with it, and not have it affect their session. Same as if someone felt they couldn't train without their red bull beforehand or their pwo shake afterwards.

Mood altering substances are good? Is that what you are saying?

Lol you bet.

Also just to clarify in case anyone starts to misinterpret me, I'm not against however you decide to organise your eating and training, I'm just saying its a personal and subjective thing and we shouldn't make too many statements on it without considering the conditions of each person in question.

Will Heffernan

brianthebard wrote: »

Well that's what I was getting at, I would because it doesn't affect my training. But if another person does find it affects their training then clearly as you say, don't do it.


Absolutely, op needs to give more info. More examples of how depending on your training the last meal you had might not be as big as deal in one instance versus the other.



I don't think so (at all), but neither of us can prove our point in this instance - unless of course you're offering to monitor me for a few months as a scientific experiment.

The above might open another tin of worms however in that people might feel mentally better haven eaten before training, while another person might not have the same association and jsut get on with it, and not have it affect their session. Same as if someone felt they couldn't train without their red bull beforehand or their pwo shake afterwards.

Lol you bet.

Also just to clarify in case anyone starts to misinterpret me, I'm not against however you decide to organise your eating and training, I'm just saying its a personal and subjective thing and we shouldn't make too many statements on it without considering the conditions of each person in question.

I won't go through each point...I'll just making some sweeping generalisations instead

1. I've seen what some posters here consider 'hard' sessions...I hate to break it to them...but they're not hard...as an aside...we had someone come in to Informed Performance that did the warm up....went home...and came back 2 days later and told me how sore they were....ALL they did was the warm up.

2. Bring your carb depleted self into the gym and you can do a training session with Dean...I'd be willing to bet there are very few posters here that could hang with him in any of his sessions for 10 mins...let alone the entire workout even if they had a month to prepare....let alone do it carb depleted. That's not me bragging...that's just a fact. People's perception of workout intensity differs GREATLY.

Then you can come back and do it having eaten....he'll still destroy you but at least you will have something solid to throw up

the drifter

I would love to get into this discusssion but im low carbing and havent got the energy...

Will Heffernan

the drifter wrote: »

I would love to get into this discusssion but im low carbing and havent got the energy...

LOL.

TheZ

Will - what is the physiology (is that the word) that causes people to throw up after intense exertion.

I have a friend who competed internationally in athletics and he told me that what you don't see on TV is all the athletes (middle distance) throwing up after races in the changing rooms.

Will Heffernan

TheZ wrote: »

Will - what is the physiology (is that the word) that causes people to throw up after intense exertion.

I have a friend who competed internationally in athletics and he told me that what you don't see on TV is all the athletes (middle distance) throwing up after races in the changing rooms.

Can be caused by a few things...simplest cause though....do any intense activity that involves shunting of blood to the musculature and away from the internal organs...for internal organs read stomach...and bingo...there's your breakfast, lunch or dinner on the track.

You also get a massive surge of endorphins....which can cause you to puke...the same ones that make people puke when they get nervous...whether your are running flat out...or standing back stage about to belt out I'm Every Woman on X-Factor and thinking that you want to run flat out....those chemicals are telling your body to purge the cylinders before taking off.

I hope that wasn't to sciency

Will Heffernan

If anyone is really interested in all the other things that are wrong in this single post I'm quite happy to go through it in detail.

Hello,

Please go on with details
Thank you,
Giggi [/QUOTE]
I already kicked it off.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67700132&postcount=14

1. I train twice a day...when can I eat a 'large' meal?
2. What do you define as being a large meal?
3. Why can't I eat a large meal within 4 hours of exercising?

That's just the folly that comes from your first sentence....the rest of your nonsense isn't much better...you are giving advice on a subject that you only have a partial understanding of....which is fine...forums are all about that...you are perfectly entitled to....just as I'm entitled to say that it's not advice to be followed.

Like I said...I've not the time to pick that one post apart 1 sentence at a time...it should just be ignored and we can all just move along and get back to talking about what drugs we take before training.

Giggipaws

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Hello,

Please go on with details
Thank you,
Giggi

I already kicked it off.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67700132&postcount=14

1. I train twice a day...when can I eat a 'large' meal?
2. What do you define as being a large meal?
3. Why can't I eat a large meal within 4 hours of exercising?

That's just the folly that comes from your first sentence....the rest of your nonsense isn't much better...you are giving advice on a subject that you only have a partial understanding of....which is fine...forums are all about that...you are perfectly entitled to....just as I'm entitled to say that it's not advice to be followed.

Like I said...I've not the time to pick that one post apart 1 sentence at a time...it should just be ignored and we can all just move along and get back to talking about what drugs we take before training.[/QUOTE]

Hi Will Heffernan,

My advice was covering just the basic rules of Sports nutrition. They are right unless you really take your time to explain what is so wrong with them, why etc (e.g. quoting the sources of your info would be great, I love to learn new stuff in case it is really scientifically proven ).
If you don't, that's fine with me too but I do not find it very serious if you criticize without being able to explain yourself.

I am a professional in Sports nutrition to say just very little about myself. I am ready to discuss matter-of-factly what is wrong in my post - not to discuss your personal preferences (because - if the original question was be 'what and when I should eat if I want to train twice a day, then my post would be different!) but what is wrong with this post as a reply to the original question, and say from the scientific point of view.

As a large meal I refer to a typical lunch (starter, main meal, drink) - majority of population would seriously compromise their CV performance if they eat this 2-4 hrs before their exercise (with the average of 3hrs prob). Again, this is a general rule for 90% of population, everyone then looks for their own limits. That's at least one of the answers to your questions....

Please take your time and explain what is so wrong with info I posted this morning

Thank you.
Have a good day.

Giggi

cc87

Has this being posted yet?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67563426&postcount=38

Will Heffernan

Giggipaws wrote: »

Hi Will Heffernan,

My advice was covering just the basic rules of Sports nutrition. They are right unless you really take your time to explain what is so wrong with them, why etc (e.g. quoting the sources of your info would be great, I love to learn new stuff in case it is really scientifically proven ).
If you don't, that's fine with me too but I do not find it very serious if you criticize without being able to explain yourself.

I am a professional in Sports nutrition to say just very little about myself. I am ready to discuss matter-of-factly what is wrong in my post - not to discuss your personal preferences (because - if the original question was be 'what and when I should eat if I want to train twice a day, then my post would be different!) but what is wrong with this post as a reply to the original question, and say from the scientific point of view.

As a large meal I refer to a typical lunch (starter, main meal, drink) - majority of population would seriously compromise their CV performance if they eat this 2-4 hrs before their exercise (with the average of 3hrs prob). Again, this is a general rule for 90% of population, everyone then looks for their own limits. That's at least one of the answers to your questions....

Please take your time and explain what is so wrong with info I posted this morning

Thank you.
Have a good day.

Giggi

Cool.

shipwreck

Loving the discussion here....Thanks guys gonna absorb it all, cos I need to eat right.....as for what Im doing, well its weights.....dead-lifting, bench pressing, low row, plank, lunges with weights, etc.....dunno what you call that!! someone mentioned lots of fancy names...I just call it hard work!!!!!

Mellor

Khannie wrote: »

It should be banned. If I were the gym moderator I would ban it. Carbs are great.

/me waits for Eileen

I wasn't advising it for everyone, or any one, but I said it's an option, gor done.
There is a big difference between somebody who is looking to lose a lot if body fat and somebody with pretty intense training (say MMA work as mentioned)

I vary my carbs around training depending on mood, WO and deficit

TommyKnocker

Mod Note

Hi All

I have deleted some posts on this thread that to my mind were off topic and adding nothing to the thread.

Topic of the thread is "Food before Training" so let's try to stay on topic, shall we.


M

Will Heffernan

B-Builder wrote: »

Mod Note

Hi All

I have deleted some posts on this thread that to my mind were off topic and adding nothing to the thread.

Topic of the thread is "Food before Training" so let's try to stay on topic, shall we.


M

Why do I always get the feeling that you feel compelled to chlorinate any thread I post in?

Quite easy to point to some of the very best threads and discussions that have been had here on boards which have been so far off topic that you would be able to find them if you searched for them.

I suppose I'll just leave this thread to the sports nutrition professionals....good luck with that.

I'll go drag another thread off topic....see if it gets cleansed.