Nationwide cycle path network

damoz

Any know what the story is with this. Heard it mentioned on several news bulletins this morning. A nationwide network of cycle paths in work - 2000km. NRA involved. Currently working on Dublin to Galway path.

Would be interested to see what the plan is for this, or the planning.

EDIT - found this : http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0820/1224277229259.html

neris

i heard that on newstalk today. going to be one in very county but poor longford doesnt get one. they made it sound like theres going to be a better cyclelane network then motor way network :rolleyes:

markcroninbsc

i think its gointa look somethin like this

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:9WFF-kwDATv8oM:http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/vivid_one/MTB/Poudre%20and%20Power%20Feb%202009/22309_Poudre_Prospect_Ponds3x.jpg&t=1

Morgan

markcroninbsc wrote: »

i think its gointa look somethin like this

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:9WFF-kwDATv8oM:http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/vivid_one/MTB/Poudre%20and%20Power%20Feb%202009/22309_Poudre_Prospect_Ponds3x.jpg&t=1

Looks good to me .

rebel.ranter

Any truth to the rumour that they will be tolled? Not sure where I could stick my toll tag....

Blowfish

damoz wrote: »

Any know what the story is with this. Heard it mentioned on several news bulletins this morning. A nationwide network of cycle paths in work - 2000km. NRA involved. Currently working on Dublin to Galway path.

Would be interested to see what the plan is for this, or the planning.

EDIT - found this : http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0820/1224277229259.html

From that article:

Each local authority will be responsible for developing their section of the network

This will be its downfall. The local authorities have been completely crap at providing 'world class' cycle facilities so far. Letting them get their hands on this is a bad idea.

feck sake lads

i hope to see it in my life time but i doubt it very much. i cycled from navan to drogheda yesterday on the new stretch of road which is fantastic but why couldn't they have put a cycle lane in instead of heavy gravel where the hard shoulder is another missed opportunity .
yip all just pie in the sky it will never happen:mad:

Beasty

A total cost for the network has yet to be quantified

- therein lies the problem ...

Once they cost it, I suspect it will fall down the priority list (which is understandable given the current state of the country's finances)

Hopefully, though, they will find some resource to kick this off, with a view to building the network. I suspect it will take some time though.

monument

Wow. IF nothing else the NRA has collected how much km of by an large poor cycle lanes we have. The figure excluding Dublin (have the Dublin figure somewhere else) is 4,060km on road and 855km more planned. While there's 83km off-road and 439km planned.

Study document at the end of this page:

http://www.smartertravel.ie/national-cycle-policy-framework/national-cycle-network

tomasrojo

I have somewhat of a bad feeling about this, given that the mandatory-use regulation is still in force.

Agree that giving responsibility for design and implementation to local authorites is the real Achilles' Heel.

However, the plan to use disused railway lines and canal routes sounds good to me.

tomasrojo

feck sake lads wrote: »

i hope to see it in my life time but i doubt it very much. i cycled from navan to drogheda yesterday on the new stretch of road which is fantastic but why couldn't they have put a cycle lane in instead of heavy gravel where the hard shoulder is another missed opportunity .
yip all just pie in the sky it will never happen:mad:

Or just not put gravel on the hard shoulder. Hard shoulders are just as good as cycle lanes, I think. Better in many cases actually, as they're a decent width.

victorcarrera

tomasrojo wrote: »

Or just not put gravel on the hard shoulder. Hard shoulders are just as good as cycle lanes, I think. Better in many cases actually, as they're a decent width.

+1 on that.
No point in building new cycle lanes if we don't maintain the existing ones to a standard which encourages cyclists to use them.
Yesterday I noticed a buried cycle lane being resurrected between Dublin airport and the N2. It was so overgrown they were using the front bucket of a JCB to find it and clear the surface.
The only way you are going to see a cycle lane between Dublin and Galway in 12 months time is a few buckets of paint on the old N4/N6 which is OK as I have cycled most of it already this summer. The hard shoulder (where it exists) is OK for a road bike and the right hand side of it is kept reasonably clear of debris by the heavy traffic. A few stretches along railways and canals would be nice though.
I think the funding would be better spent improving the hard shoulders on downgraded National primaries, bypass the local authorities to employ contractors to sweep and maintain them regularly and renew their annual contracts based on the quality of maintainance.

Captain Havoc

I don't know how this is going to turn out. The new motorways are fantastic and proof of what an excellent job they can do but a lot of the existing cycle lanes are just random lines drawn on the road. I've used the bike network in Switzerland and it's absolutely fantastic. I've also used the bike network in the UK and at times it's terrific and at times it was worse than anything any county council here could come up with. I think it's a case of "if you build it, they will come". If it's a paved cycle path from Dublin to Galway by the end of the year, I don't think we'd have much trouble getting a gang of us to test it out. If it's a quality route, I think you'd get frequent posts here about users travelling it.

L'Enfer du Nord

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I don't know how this is going to turn out. The new motorways are fantastic and proof of what an excellent job they can do but a lot of the existing cycle lanes are just random lines drawn on the road. I've used the bike network in Switzerland and it's absolutely fantastic. I've also used the bike network in the UK and at times it's terrific and at times it was worse than anything any county council here could come up with. I think it's a case of "if you build it, they will come". If it's a paved cycle path from Dublin to Galway by the end of the year, I don't think we'd have much trouble getting a gang of us to test it out. If it's a quality route, I think you'd get frequent posts here about users travelling it.

Sorry to hear people are so pessimistic about the plan. Maybe they have good reason but I was over the moon when I read about it. Its something I've been hoping for years. There seems to be a trend towards labour intensive capital projects getting approval, so fingers crossed.

If its to be off vehicle road the obvious rout for Dublin Athlone is Royal canal as far as Mulingar, then I think there's a disused railway line for Mulingar to Galway.

If this gets off the ground the important thing is to keep an eye on local authorities implementation plans, they are of course liable to do stupid things.

Its not impossible for Ireland to have a decent national cycling network, and it would attract tourists.

Dare to dream -

(Here's a map to help)

monument

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Sorry to hear people are so pessimistic about the plan. Maybe they have good reason but I was over the moon when I read about it. Its something I've been hoping for years. There seems to be a trend towards labour intensive capital projects getting approval, so fingers crossed.

Yes, there is good reason:

See the Documenting Dublin Cycle Lanes thread.

Also see the threads here and on the Dublin City board about the kissing gates on the recently opened section of the Grand Canal cycleway. You can't have kissings gates on a national route -- they are too restrictive for touring cycling with bags on their bikes.

EDIT: On a more neutral note: There's more maps and data in the PDF report if you follow the link in my last post.

L'Enfer du Nord

monument wrote: »

Yes, there is good reason:

See the Documenting Dublin Cycle Lanes thread.

Also see the threads here and on the Dublin City board about the kissing gates on the recently opened section of the Grand Canal cycleway. You can't have kissings gates on a national route -- they are too restrictive for touring cycling with bags on their bikes.

EDIT: On a more neutral note: There's more maps and data in the PDF report if you follow the link in my last post.

Thanks for the link, I agree that past experience doesn't inspire confidence, but 5 days a go there was no plan, now there's a plan surely thats the necessary first step.

Also I'd be interested to know if you think there's been any improvement in Dublin cycle lanes over the past 5 years? Certaily there's far more of them. Some of them are good, but as you have documented it usually isn't very long before there's a stupid obstocle or crazy junction. I remember cycling on a cycle path in Oostend on a busy road, I realised I was on edge every time I approached a junction. This was because I was so used to cycle pathpetering out or being poorly integrated. This never happened in Oostend where the path was really well designed, I could actually relax on the cycle path.

cdaly_

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

There seems to be a trend towards labour intensive capital projects famine roads getting approval

FYP

Blowfish

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Also I'd be interested to know if you think there's been any improvement in Dublin cycle lanes over the past 5 years?

Unfortunately it seems like the council hasn't learned anything. Brand new bridge only opened 6 months ago and it's still completely screwed up cycling wise. It's actually gotten worse since that article as they've dug up more of the lane along the north quay.

monument

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Thanks for the link, I agree that past experience doesn't inspire confidence, but 5 days a go there was no plan, now there's a plan surely thats the necessary first step.

Also I'd be interested to know if you think there's been any improvement in Dublin cycle lanes over the past 5 years? Certaily there's far more of them. Some of them are good, but as you have documented it usually isn't very long before there's a stupid obstocle or crazy junction. I remember cycling on a cycle path in Oostend on a busy road, I realised I was on edge every time I approached a junction. This was because I was so used to cycle pathpetering out or being poorly integrated. This never happened in Oostend where the path was really well designed, I could actually relax on the cycle path.

It's not past experience. Some of the worst examples of cycle lanes in Dublin and the rest of Ireland have been created in the last five years.

Current experience is a growing amount of poorer and poorer cycle lanes. Less and less priority for cyclists. Putting cyclists on footpaths where there's no room for them. Putting cycle lanes into traffic lanes which do not have the room for a cyclist and a car never mind truck. etc etc

Doctor Bob

It is disingenuous to use poor urban cycle infrastructure to condemn a programme of off-carriageway (largely) rural cycle routes.

There is one cycle route that opened in the recent past that has had, to the best of my knowledge, minimal criticism- the Newport to Mulranny route. As most of the routes under this programme would appear to be following that example, I'd suggest that there are grounds for optimism here.

Obviously the routes will have to go into/through urban areas, so there's still potential for parsimonious provision, but I think much of the criticism posted thus far is premature and ill-grounded.

@tomasrojo- I may be wrong on this, but I suspect that, as these routes are probably officially 'off-carriageway', then the mandatory use provision will not apply, i.e. they will not 'sterilise' the nearby roads for cycling.

tomasrojo

Doctor Bob wrote: »

@tomasrojo- I may be wrong on this, but I suspect that, as these routes are probably officially 'off-carriageway', then the mandatory use provision will not apply, i.e. they will not 'sterilise' the nearby roads for cycling.

Here's hoping!

monument

Doctor Bob wrote: »

It is disingenuous to use poor urban cycle infrastructure to condemn a programme of off-carriageway (largely) rural cycle routes.

I'm not condemning the planned programme, but I would be wary of it.

There's examples of poor cycle lanes outside built up areas too -- look at the treatment the N4 got, look at the Grand Canal. I was hopeful of the Grand Canal cycleway and look how badly that turned out. And as you said, parts of this will be urban.

Doctor Bob wrote: »

off-carriageway.

Some sections may be, others won't be.

ednwireland

Doctor Bob wrote: »

There is one cycle route that opened in the recent past that has had, to the best of my knowledge, minimal criticism- the Newport to Mulranny route. As most of the routes under this programme would appear to be following that example, I'd suggest that there are grounds for optimism here.

where as this was a total success (believe me all theyve done is stuck up a few signs on existing roads) i would expect something more like this

http://www.northwest-trail.com/

:rolleyes: