Unsigned Bands in Dublin

OkComputerGirl

I would like to get everyone's opinion on the Dublin music scene. Personally i think its very stagnant and full of copy cat bands who prefer style over substance and originality..

Opinions?

Malice

Are you looking for answers from other musicians or just from people in general?

Waking-Dreams

...i think it's very stagnant and full of copy cat bands who prefer style over substance and originality.

This is a phrase which has been used throughout the decades.

Every music scene has always had some degree of this. It's not going to change either. There will always be copy cat bands.

off.the.walls

OkComputerGirl wrote: »

I would like to get everyone's opinion on the Dublin music scene. Personally i think its very stagnant and full of copy cat bands who prefer style over substance and originality..

Opinions?

I find most bands starting out will have alot of covers in their set list but as time goes no their originality grows and this in turn lets them become more original and then new bands coming out may see the band at a later stage in their successfull carreer and think "if we sound like them we will make it in the music industry".

But i don't think that its completely full of copycats.

MilanPan!c

The problem most bands have is that they don't have even one strong creative talent, much less two or three... They're passionate about music, but don't necessarily have a vision... That leads to lots of same-y songs and mediocre idol worship.

IMO IMO.

And WD is right; same as it ever was.

OkComputerGirl

off.the.walls wrote: »

I find most bands starting out will have alot of covers in their set list but as time goes no their originality grows and this in turn lets them become more original and then new bands coming out may see the band at a later stage in their successfull carreer and think "if we sound like them we will make it in the music industry".

But i don't think that its completely full of copycats.

IMO the majority of the bands i have seen in dublin (and thats hundreds) are together years and still are **** and going nowhere. Why is there so much talent in one city and very few quality bands.. Bands like The Brothers Movement are totally going on style, they sound like theyre a cover band to BRMC, The velvet underground etc. Fight like apes brought something new to the table. What bands (not a few months old) are different and catch your attention. Id love to find a band that is really promising. But over the past 2 years I really am having trouble in seeing anything worth going to see again.

Rigsby

OkComputerGirl wrote: »

IMO the majority of the bands i have seen in dublin (and thats hundreds) are together years and still are **** and going nowhere. Why is there so much talent in one city and very few quality bands.. Bands like The Brothers Movement are totally going on style, they sound like theyre a cover band to BRMC, The velvet underground etc. Fight like apes brought something new to the table. What bands (not a few months old) are different and catch your attention. Id love to find a band that is really promising. But over the past 2 years I really am having trouble in seeing anything worth going to see again.

Firstly, IMO a lot of people like to hear covers of the music they like. These cover bands are merely providing, where there is a demand. Your last sentance answers the question as to why there are so many copy cat bands.

waltersobchak

Tbh the problem i have with the Dublin music scene, is its full of either Metallica clones, or shi*ty indie band clones, and very very few orginal and indeed interesting bands, basically there's a lot of mediocrity imho..

Waking-Dreams

waltersobchak wrote: »

Tbh the problem i have with the Dublin music scene, is its full of either Metallica clones, or shi*ty indie band clones, and very very few orginal and indeed interesting bands, basically there's a lot of mediocrity imho..

Can you name a year when this wasn't the case? It just sounds like people are discovering this fact for the first time and are acting surprised or dissapointed by it, like there was some kind of "good old days" where the ratio of great bands to bad ones was better. It really wasn't... there have always been lousy bands, maybe it's just a bit more noticeable now because more people are playing music and have the means to get it heard.

waltersobchak

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

Can you name a year when this wasn't the case? It just sounds like people are discovering this fact for the first time and are acting surprised or dissapointed by it, like there was some kind of "good old days" where the ratio of great bands to bad ones was better. It really wasn't... there have always been lousy bands, maybe it's just a bit more noticeable now because more people are playing music and have the means to get it heard.

Well 10 years ago it was mediocre Pop/Punk bands and Singer/Songwriters.. Now its mediocre Metal and Indie bands, maybe its just that the majority of Dublin musicians are sheep and jump on whatever trend is most popular at the time, in the hope of "getting signed"

r0nanf

You should check out The Barley Mob, great folk-reggae sound and uniquely Irish lyrics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rxcz0Aqs7Y

Waking-Dreams

Musicians will mimic their surroundings in some way usually. For instance, no one is going to try and start a polka/bosa nova band because there just isn't a noticeable presence of such bands.

I don't think it's a phenomenon exclusive to just Dublin.

waltersobchak

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

Musicians will mimic their surroundings in some way usually. For instance, no one is going to try and start a polka/bosa nova band because there just isn't a noticeable presence of such bands.

I don't think it's a phenomenon exclusive to just Dublin.

Well look at any musical explosion, whether its Punk, Grunge, Thrash Metal or whatever..All those bands developed from a scene that exploded in a certain area, but that will never happen in Dublin because there's nobody willing to be orginal..

Waking-Dreams

I wouldn't say it's that they're not willing (ask any band if they think they're original and they'll say "sure we are") but that they haven't figured out how to innovate, and are still stuck in the immitate phase. It's not really a skill you can teach either. 'tis what separates the good bands from the not so good ones.

OkComputerGirl

waltersobchak wrote: »

Tbh the problem i have with the Dublin music scene, is its full of either Metallica clones, or shi*ty indie band clones, and very very few orginal and indeed interesting bands, basically there's a lot of mediocrity imho..

Yes i agree with ya

OkComputerGirl

Rigsby wrote: »

Firstly, IMO a lot of people like to hear covers of the music they like. These cover bands are merely providing, where there is a demand. Your last sentance answers the question as to why there are so many copy cat bands.

why are you bringing cover bands into this discussion?
I never mentioned cover bands... i said that there is no originality and that bands SOUND like cover bands.. I go to gigs like 3 times a week but i think theres a lot of wasted talent in dublin. I have friends in cork and galway and theres loads of really interesting and cool bands there. I have been in a few pretty well known bands in dublin and its all about clicks(circles of friends) and image. Id like to find a band that arent stuck up there own arse and a band who is in it for the music and not for any other reason. Maybe i should forget about dublin and look else where.

MilanPan!c

OkComputerGirl wrote: »

why are you bringing cover bands into this discussion?
I never mentioned cover bands... i said that there is no originality and that bands SOUND like cover bands.. I go to gigs like 3 times a week but i think theres a lot of wasted talent in dublin. I have friends in cork and galway and theres loads of really interesting and cool bands there. I have been in a few pretty well known bands in dublin and its all about clicks(circles of friends) and image. Id like to find a band that arent stuck up there own arse and a band who is in it for the music and not for any other reason. Maybe i should forget about dublin and look else where.

a few things:

• I played in the NY/Boston scene for years (and toured the US and lived in London for years) - most bands everywhere were pretty crap and would fit your description. The reason a lot of scenes seem better is that the bands that make it out of those scenes and come to your attention are the best of the crop. Go to a normal venue in NYC or Boston or LA on a Tues night and you'll see the same lame crap you see here.

• The media here is largly responsible for the prevalence of the poopiest bands. If the media promoted a wider variety of sounds we'd have a different impression of the scene.

• Clique, not click.


IMO IMO IMO IMO

stevood

MilanPan!c wrote: »

• The media here is largly responsible for the prevalence of the poopiest bands. If the media promoted a wider variety of sounds we'd have a different impression of the scene.

•

I agree with this. I find for ourselves we can put on a gig and attract a large 150-250 on a really big pushed gig and the feedback will be excellent. However we're not the mainstream indie-esque genre but more rock and are over looked by radio and media alike.

One of the finest bands Glyder, who are big throughout Europe are relatively unknown here. They are excellent but rock like lizzie and thats not the "in thing" at the moment.

Rigsby

OkComputerGirl wrote: »

Personally i think its very stagnant and full of copy cat bands

OkComputerGirl wrote: »

why are you bringing cover bands into this discussion?

I assumed by "copy cat" bands that you meant cover bands... as in a band "copying" (i.e. "covering", therefore not original ) a song.

MilanPan!c

stevood wrote: »

I agree with this. I find for ourselves we can put on a gig and attract a large 150-250 on a really big pushed gig and the feedback will be excellent. However we're not the mainstream indie-esque genre but more rock and are over looked by radio and media alike.

One of the finest bands Glyder, who are big throughout Europe are relatively unknown here. They are excellent but rock like lizzie and thats not the "in thing" at the moment.

Ireland's a funny place.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

twas a sad day when classic rock became a no go area :(

id have given me left ball to be in deep purple

ClutchIt

Rigsby wrote: »

I assumed by "copy cat" bands that you meant cover bands... as in a band "copying" (i.e. "covering", therefore not original ) a song.

No they mean unoriginal bands when they say "copy cat". As in they are copying the style and sound of a band without actually covering their songs.

Waking-Dreams

stevood wrote: »

I agree with this. I find for ourselves we can put on a gig and attract a large 150-250 on a really big pushed gig and the feedback will be excellent. However we're not the mainstream indie-esque genre but more rock and are over looked by radio and media alike.

Don't take it personally because there's lots of bands who can pull 150-250 punters too, and they are overlooked. You should be aware that the media and radio are only in business to profit from what's already popular, not cater to every single taste there is. It's like buying a newspaper expecting to get an objective analysis of news; when really you're going to be reading something that is designed to provoke a reaction from certain people, get them talking about it. Newspapers are guilty of spoon-feeding what their readers want to read about. For a while there was one English newspaper that when it mentioned anything to do with asylum seekers, it was always a negative story, because their dominant readership believed all asylum seekers were bucking the system.

Ireland will never shift its focus to “alternative” music because the current pop market is just too profitable. Radio is dead, musically. Talk radio is the only think keeping it alive, which means any music that is played is the oldies people know and love, or it's top 40 hits. But as a means for checking out new bands, it's just much easier to find online radio stations which cater to more niche tastes. I really wouldn't worry about your band not getting airplay in this country; chances are you would reach more listeners at one of your gigs or by spending the evening with your computer.

stevood wrote: »

One of the finest bands Glyder, who are big throughout Europe are relatively unknown here. They are excellent but rock like lizzie and thats not the "in thing" at the moment.

Maybe because it's a bit dated too, no? I find the lizzy worship a bit much personally, it's 2010 - to still be riffing off what lizzy were doing best over 30 years ago...

But anyways, haven't every rock band, even U2, had to leave Ireland and establish a fan base elsewhere before the people at home really take notice?

Orando Broom

Ireland is a town of 4 million people. It's on the outer fringes of europe. We are influenced in almost everyway by television from the US (diaspora) and England (colonialisation, diaspora). Irealnd historically does not have it's own identity so to speak. That is the product of our past, having being a colony). If we did not have these influences our pop/rock scene would be more akin to Scandinavia or Eastern Europe. To start with English would not be our first language!

With every scene that you are a part of you will see the dross and the detritus that litters it. You travel to and live in any major city the majority of bands on that scene are crap. The cream rises to the top in every scene. Dublin I think has one of the most vibrant music scenes with loads of novel interesting bands producing highly original music. What I find sad is the jerking off about one or two bands whilst ignoring the two dozen others who are as worthy of comment.

but bear in mind Dublin is a tiny, tiny pond. It only takes one or two voices to control the scene. This is inclined to happena nd bands are inclined to fall in behind what they may perceive is the groundswell in the hope that they are seen to be doing it better than every other band.

A friend of mine had a band on the go for several years and they struggled to get any recongition (despite the band having possibly two of the best guitarists in Dublin) purely because they did not fit the asthetic of what was considered cool by the key players. It's unfortunate but it's life and it's the reality of the music business. Would a metal band in Manchester have gotten any kudos circa 1994?

odonopenmic

I'm amazed! IMO Dublin has never been healthier or had the diversity of bands and venues there are now. I don't mean to be rude here but OP, if you are going to gigs three times a week and can't find a gig, where are on earth are you going or what exactly are you hoping to find? Personally, I can't count the number of good bands around at the moment and I think it's terrible if others can't see that either. Given that most bands play other cities too, I don't really see that there's a significant difference between the music scenes within Ireland.

Have to say as well, I'm also surprised OP, that you would bemoan bands that put style over substance and nearly in the same sentence praise Fight Like Apes??!

novarock

It is definitely down to population size, there are only 4 million on this island, there is around the same number in Manchester alone, and there are several more cities that size in the uk..

Even if you do build a huge fanbase in this country it will only get you so far, and every band has to look abroad if they ever plan to make anything of themselves. Also getting onto radio/into magazines is not difficult at all in ireland, neither is getting gigs all over the country. provided your show/material is good enough.

Also of all the places in ireland to play dublin has to be the worst. There are very few venues in the city that realise that people dont want to go see a band at 8pm, and that at weekends bands should be on late as it is elsewhere in the country. Also there are very few people that will go to a gig for the sake of going to a gig. They only go to see the band they know. Get yourself outside of dublin, and you will meet people and gain fans just because they go to a venue at a weekend to see bands.

Countless 'bigger' gigs I have been to the support bands play to no one, and they are excellent, and deserve a crowd to play to. Case in point the problem with the dublin 'scene' is not the bands, there are a lot of good bands from dublin, the problem is many of them fall to the lack of people to play to.

MilanPan!c

Sadly, it's true that Ireland can't, on it's own, support more than a handful of major bands... that's just economies of scale...

From the get-go my band has been aiming at the US/Europe/UK, because we knew/know those are the only real options... very depressing for me, but a reality.

drumdrum

IMO, every band that there is out there is influenced by others. Its what gets us into music in the first place. Sometimes its more obvious than others, but the influence is still there. There is no such thing as 100% originality anymore. Anyone who isn't a fan can easily dissect a bands song and find a similar chord progression used by some other band, or a singer with a similar style. Depends on how "pernickety" you are willing to get.

Irish radio and media, as has been mentioned before, is there solely for the purpose of making money. They do this primarily by attracting the largest listener base they can and sell advertising time. Therefore, they put out songs that they think THE MASSES will like.....ie, whats "in" at the moment whether that by Arcade Fire or Lady Gaga. Its a bit of a crap spiral in the sense that by putting the music on their station in the first place, they influence what the common person wants to hear, then they attempt to hold on to them by playing the same stuff to them.

Its a huge issue IMO that completely influences what the live scene is like. Most musicians here and elsewhere are unfortunately in the "niche" end of things. Bottom line is, is you want to make money from "original" music in Ireland, unless your willing to conform to the media standard, your better off trying your product in a market thats there for you. Thinking that you are going to form a new rock band that will change the Irish scene is just naive. Personally, Im sick of metal bands that assume that because they play metal that they are instantly better than less heavier bands. They think that technical playing outweighs good songwriting and that they are so original. Ive not seen a good original metal band (bar one) in Ireland. Most Ive seen all sound the same, usually playing a venue with poor sound, a "vocalist" who growls into a mic, and a drummer who over uses a double kick pedal. Its a pity as I love metal, but I just think that Irish metal bands go about it all wrong.

As for the Dublin scene, personally, I think its pretty boring, harsh with too much sense of entitlement and a bad work ethic. I know of bands that jam once a week in a rehearsal room and do a few gigs a year who think that they deserve to play webley! Dubln bands do not support each other anymore. Its gotten too competitive. I went to a gig on Saturday, and by the time the "headline" band came onstage, the previous 2 bands had already left with most of their friends. That sort of malarkey is not on IMO, though its done at most gigs I go to.
I think that if we want a scene in Dublin for the niche bands, we need to work together to create one ourselves. We probably wouldnt see the benefits from our efforts until the next generation though.....

MilanPan!c

drumdrum wrote: »

IMO, every band that there is out there is influenced by others. Its what gets us into music in the first place. Sometimes its more obvious than others, but the influence is still there. There is no such thing as 100% originality anymore. Anyone who isn't a fan can easily dissect a bands song and find a similar chord progression used by some other band, or a singer with a similar style. Depends on how "pernickety" you are willing to get.

Irish radio and media, as has been mentioned before, is there solely for the purpose of making money. They do this primarily by attracting the largest listener base they can and sell advertising time. Therefore, they put out songs that they think THE MASSES will like.....ie, whats "in" at the moment whether that by Arcade Fire or Lady Gaga. Its a bit of a crap spiral in the sense that by putting the music on their station in the first place, they influence what the common person wants to hear, then they attempt to hold on to them by playing the same stuff to them.

Its a huge issue IMO that completely influences what the live scene is like. Most musicians here and elsewhere are unfortunately in the "niche" end of things. Bottom line is, is you want to make money from "original" music in Ireland, unless your willing to conform to the media standard, your better off trying your product in a market thats there for you. Thinking that you are going to form a new rock band that will change the Irish scene is just naive. Personally, Im sick of metal bands that assume that because they play metal that they are instantly better than less heavier bands. They think that technical playing outweighs good songwriting and that they are so original. Ive not seen a good original metal band (bar one) in Ireland. Most Ive seen all sound the same, usually playing a venue with poor sound, a "vocalist" who growls into a mic, and a drummer who over uses a double kick pedal. Its a pity as I love metal, but I just think that Irish metal bands go about it all wrong.

As for the Dublin scene, personally, I think its pretty boring, harsh with too much sense of entitlement and a bad work ethic. I know of bands that jam once a week in a rehearsal room and do a few gigs a year who think that they deserve to play webley! Dubln bands do not support each other anymore. Its gotten too competitive. I went to a gig on Saturday, and by the time the "headline" band came onstage, the previous 2 bands had already left with most of their friends. That sort of malarkey is not on IMO, though its dont at most gigs I go to.
I think that if we want a scene in Dublin for the niche bands, we need to work together to create one ourselves. We probably wouldnt see the benefits from our efforts until the next generation though.....

It's a good goal... I think part of the problem, and this isn't Dublin specific, but happens in ALL scenes, is that there's so basic unspoken rules that bands live by, that are all BS... these rules create little boxes for bands to slot into and create a huge number of same-y bands...

It's a topic for another thread, but really, bands in a scene are kinda trapped by a lot of convention that is hard to ignore... that's one reason we decided to record a record before jumping into the scene, to try our best to bypass and short-circuit a lot of that, before it happened...

Orando Broom

It could be worse lads....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcibYABRm9E

drumdrum

Orando Broom wrote: »

It could be worse lads....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcibYABRm9E

Ah dude you've just brightened up my day!!
Thats hilarious!!

Heres another one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjeMDvCdrtc

MilanPan!c

Orando Broom wrote: »

It could be worse lads....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcibYABRm9E

That gives Sonic Youth a run for their money!

AMAZING!

Orando Broom

drumdrum wrote: »

Ah dude you've just brightened up my day!!
Thats hilarious!!

Heres another one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjeMDvCdrtc

Holy Jaysus!!! hahahaaa!! The keyboard!!

maccored

though completely urelated, I always thought this was hilarious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IagcDon-ZJk

bassbomber

on a more related note i feel that the scene here in dublin has far too many problems for an unsigned band to get any sort of real fanbase. im in an unsigned band and were liked enough for people we dont know to turn up, we do get an ok crowd but yet still we lack a decent amount of new fans were seeing the same people turn up. half the problem is dublin lacks any good venues and second many of the ones we do play are aimmed at people who make an effort to go see bands but yet the only people willing to do that are people who are already fans of a band. pub gigs are mainly for cover bands and in most cases a no go zone for people who want to show any sort of originallity. basically dublin is too small for a band to get big. for most of us in unsigned bands this is very frustrating. Advertising for gigs is almost disgraceful this is why bands are not getting signed here because no one knows where the hell to find the good bands.

ok my rant is over u may continue the awesome youtube vids XD

Orando Broom

bassbomber wrote: »

on a more related note i feel that the scene here in dublin has far too many problems for an unsigned band to get any sort of real fanbase. im in an unsigned band and were liked enough for people we dont know to turn up, we do get an ok crowd but yet still we lack a decent amount of new fans were seeing the same people turn up. half the problem is dublin lacks any good venues and second many of the ones we do play are aimmed at people who make an effort to go see bands but yet the only people willing to do that are people who are already fans of a band. pub gigs are mainly for cover bands and in most cases a no go zone for people who want to show any sort of originallity. basically dublin is too small for a band to get big. for most of us in unsigned bands this is very frustrating. Advertising for gigs is almost disgraceful this is why bands are not getting signed here because no one knows where the hell to find the good bands.

ok my rant is over u may continue the awesome youtube vids XD

This is an good point. There is a distinct lack of passing trade in pubs in Dublin that cater for the original band scene. The ordinary 5/8 tend want to hear the 'hits'. Pubs want to cater for this. They have no interest in having an original band. I can make more money playing covers of Don't stop Belivin' than I can doing original music (This may be about to change). Pubs tend to favour DJ's or cover bands to provide the live entertainment.

An interesting aside, Revenue is going to start pursuing musicians who are nixering (the lads who do the pub covers circuit) in a big way. It might put a lot of the original bnads competition out of business.


Now the bands themselves also have to share the blame. How many of your peers do you know have gone round to pubs not normally associated with the scene and offered their services for free? Pubs are running into trouble and have several quiet nights. How many have stepped outside the scene bubble and tried to expand their audience in different pubs. Dublin bands tend to be very passive and expect the corwd to come to them. Maybe they need to work a little harder.

I would also suggest that bands try to eschew the family and friends brigade and force themselves to work for thier audience. It's nice to support your siblins/mates etc. but you have to wean them off the tit at some point.

Waking-Dreams

Orando Broom wrote: »

They have no interest in having an original band.

Pubs have no interest in supporting original bands that don't bring in the punters. They are a business and can't thrive on half empty lounges just for the sake of giving some musicians a place to play for their own gratification. If cover bands can bring in the punters (for obvious reasons) this is not the fault of the pubs for going with what will keep them in business. They supply entertainment to keep their clientele entertained. If original bands aren't as entertaining, what choice do they have? Maybe when the economy comes back to what it was then original bands will have a better chance.

---

OT, but I absolutely LOVE those shred videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipy58SaIRhs&feature=related

maccored

theres no point in bands blaming venues. if you have an original band and cant get a gig in a venue, play one online or organise one in someones gaff - do something rather than throw the hands up in the air giving out.

OkComputerGirl

Rigsby wrote: »

I assumed by "copy cat" bands that you meant cover bands... as in a band "copying" (i.e. "covering", therefore not original ) a song.

Cover bands and original (well original for lack of a better word) bands are totally different..
Copy cat bands as in they all copy each others image and sound.. nothing original...

OkComputerGirl

odonopenmic wrote: »

I'm amazed! IMO Dublin has never been healthier or had the diversity of bands and venues there are now. I don't mean to be rude here but OP, if you are going to gigs three times a week and can't find a gig, where are on earth are you going or what exactly are you hoping to find? Personally, I can't count the number of good bands around at the moment and I think it's terrible if others can't see that either. Given that most bands play other cities too, I don't really see that there's a significant difference between the music scenes within Ireland.

Have to say as well, I'm also surprised OP, that you would bemoan bands that put style over substance and nearly in the same sentence praise Fight Like Apes??!

Trust me when i say ive seen pretty much every band in dublin. Im not a great fan of Fight Like Apes but in fairness to them, they do stand out. Theres **** all bands that stand out, thats what im trying to say. They all blend into the scene, none of them being special or anything. What bands would you recommend? Im looking forward to the HWCH festival... Im sure there'll be a few at that hopefully.

novarock

OkComputerGirl wrote: »

Trust me when i say ive seen pretty much every band in dublin. Im not a great fan of Fight Like Apes but in fairness to them, they do stand out. Theres **** all bands that stand out, thats what im trying to say. They all blend into the scene, none of them being special or anything. What bands would you recommend? Im looking forward to the HWCH festival... Im sure there'll be a few at that hopefully.

I really doubt you have seen every band in Dublin. I think you are being a bit close minded.

Orando Broom

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

Pubs have no interest in supporting original bands that don't bring in the punters. They are a business and can't thrive on half empty lounges just for the sake of giving some musicians a place to play for their own gratification. If cover bands can bring in the punters (for obvious reasons) this is not the fault of the pubs for going with what will keep them in business. They supply entertainment to keep their clientele entertained. If original bands aren't as entertaining, what choice do they have? Maybe when the economy comes back to what it was then original bands will have a better chance.

---

OT, but I absolutely LOVE those shred videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipy58SaIRhs&feature=related

I'm afraid you're wrong. If pubs aren't hosting them now they definately won't when the and if the economy comes back. Pubs in dublin are the greediest most self serving group in the country. You just need to see their attitude (away from music) to get an idea. A price freeze was their answer to the recession. It was conveinent that the price froze at the high point. that is jsut one example. You will never get venues like you would in Chicago or London as two examples because of the template for a 'successful' pub that has been laid out by the pub trade itself. This template is backward thingking and anti progression and not would owner would take the chance of running a Tuesday or wednesday night for live original music. you wander the city you'll find few if any Lounges heaving with punters. a band paying for free with twenty punters having an average of three pints would be a boost to profits. However with the shower of old fogeys that run the show the chances of it happening are practically zero. The young bar owners are only interested in opening trendy bars along the lines of Krystal or Dandelion to get their fizog's on Showbiz Ireland.

By the way I spent eight happy years in the trade and I can guarantee you were I ever in a position to open a pub I can assure you it would be the O'Donoghues of Merrion Row for the live original Irish rock scene in this century. Whatever my crowd would be would be.

And what's further more I'd turn a profit. A big profit.

drumdrum

Orando Broom wrote: »

Now the bands themselves also have to share the blame. How many of your peers do you know have gone round to pubs not normally associated with the scene and offered their services for free? Pubs are running into trouble and have several quiet nights. How many have stepped outside the scene bubble and tried to expand their audience in different pubs. Dublin bands tend to be very passive and expect the corwd to come to them. Maybe they need to work a little harder.

I would also suggest that bands try to eschew the family and friends brigade and force themselves to work for thier audience. It's nice to support your siblins/mates etc. but you have to wean them off the tit at some point.

I agree with this sentiment. In my experience bands as a whole are quite lazy. They dont put enough time into promoting their band, bring the same few mates to every gig, dont try and get feedback and blame the promoters for playing to a half empty venue. In my experience, the self-promotion way for bands ONLY pays off in the long term. Putting posters in town wherever you can about your gig is a great way to get your name out there. More than likely 99% of the people who walk by wont bother going to the gig, but more gigs and more posters and more exposure to your name and suddenly you get a "huh...Ive heard of those guys somewhere...." sort of respect and the chances of the person going to your gig or at least checking out your myspace first increases.
Yeah it sucks spending time and money printing out posters and putting up online adverts and then playing to half empty venues, but if you stick with it, you at least give yourself a proper chance in the long term. Word of mouth, especially in a scene as tiny as Dublin, is vital and can make or break a band.

Lastly, Id say that if the radios played more independent Irish music and even expanded their genres a little, pubs and such would be more open to putting on unsigned bands. WD does have a point though....pubs have bills to pay and half empty lounges arent going to pay them!

Waking-Dreams

Well, there was plenty of slots for original bands before the recession, but now that people are going out less, what do you expect these businessmen to do? Yes, some pubs will cater to original bands because there is a specific market for that, and that will be their niche. So for bands, it's a case of finding those particular places to play. However, you will have every other original band trying to get their foot in the door too. So it comes down to competition, which will always be the case. The same bands all fighting for their piece of the gig-going crowd.

A band paying for free with twenty punters having an average of three pints would be a boost to profits.

I do agree but don't bands want the fri/sat night slots? So, they will have to expect they are going to find less and less venues who will give them such a slot over cover bands for obvious reasons.

It's just business at the end of the day.

Waking-Dreams

drumdrum wrote: »

In my experience Irish bands as a whole are quite lazy. They dont put enough time into promoting their band, bring the same few mates to every gig, dont try and get feedback and blame the promoters for playing to a half empty venue.

It's true of bands in every country. We only think it's Irish bands that are worse because we live here and see it on a regular basis but it occurs globally. Saw it in Vancouver and all over Canada. You'll find examples everywhere I guess.

Can I put a suggestion out there to bands and say maybe you should work on making your gigs more of an "event", and maybe play a little less often? If you play too regularly what incentive will people have to go to your latest gig, “ack, they're always playing; I can check them out another time”... and watch as your attendences start to dwindle when everyone thinks that way.

The other thing is that people ARE going out less. They're more picky about what gigs to go to as well. I haven't attended a local gig in a year or two and I love music. But I have lots of other things I love too and I've spent more years watching local shows than I care to remember, so I'm alot more choosey about where I go. I would probably only go to a special event or if it was to meet some friends. Of course, I'm just one example, but I wonder how many people act the same way. They like live music but they just have way too many commitments and other interests. Something has got to give. As people get jobs and begin earning again, I'm sure it will bounce back. This recession is quite a nasty one but there have been others in the past remember.

drumdrum

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

It's true of bands in every country. We only think it's Irish bands that are worse because we live here and see it on a regular basis but it occurs globally. Saw it in Vancouver and all over Canada. You'll find examples everywhere I guess.

I know......guess I came across a little naive there. Old post edited!!

I agree about the going out thing.....and on another note, a lot of people that do "go out" dont necessarily drink that much. Off-licence trade has kept well in this recession with a lot of people "pre-drinking" in someones house before they hit the town, especially on a Fri / Sat night. Especially as pubs charge upwards of E5 for a pint or glass of wine. You can get a cheap full bottle of wine or six pack of beers from the off-licence for about E7/E8 these days. May taste like **** but it gets the job done.
My point is that people are even drinking less when they go into town, and they are going in later. Most places dont hit their peal until about midnight or so. A lot of venues have been offering late night slots mostly to cover bands to cater to these peaks. So not only is the scene changing but so are peoples attitudes to gigs. Ive been to many of these such places with late live bands and the **** Ive seen some of the bands having to put up with from drunked loutes is unbelievable!!

Einstein

OkComputerGirl wrote: »

I would like to get everyone's opinion on the Dublin music scene. Personally i think its very stagnant and full of copy cat bands who prefer style over substance and originality..

Opinions?

Dublin (or Ireland more specifically) doesn't have a scene. They have underaverage venues, a national broadcaster who has no interest in playing up and coming bands...and a populous who generally have no interest in Live music.

Hence, why any decent bands, who genuinely want to do something, will leave the country and head for The UK or Germany.

Waking-Dreams

drumdrum wrote: »

I know......guess I came across a little naive there. Old post edited!!

I agree about the going out thing.....and on another note, a lot of people that do "go out" dont necessarily drink that much. Off-licence trade has kept well in this recession with a lot of people "pre-drinking" in someones house before they hit the town, especially on a Fri / Sat night. Especially as pubs charge upwards of E5 for a pint or glass of wine. You can get a cheap full bottle of wine or six pack of beers from the off-licence for about E7/E8 these days. May taste like **** but it gets the job done.

My point is that people are even drinking less when they go into town, and they are going in later. Most places dont hit their peal until about midnight or so. A lot of venues have been offering late night slots mostly to cover bands to cater to these peaks. So not only is the scene changing but so are peoples attitudes to gigs. Ive been to many of these such places with late live bands and the **** Ive seen some of the bands having to put up with from drunked loutes is unbelievable!!

Nasty that. Nothing worse than a drunken heckler, because even when you do point out how much of an knob they are, over the PA with dry wit for the amusement of others, they're usually like, "what did you say? huh? Gimmie that mic there..."

Oh yeah, there's €4.99 bottle of red wine that Aldi do which does it for me.

Here's another thought.

Many people are also just going out to score. Yes, they might love music too but if you were to remove the possibility of them meeting someone, their motivation could change and any band's live show and music alone will not be as appealing (unless they're really amazing). I know lots of couples still go out too or people who already have a gf/bf and still enjoy going out with mates, but I'd wager a decent percentage of the bodies that make up an audience are single and would not be there if it weren't for the chance of meeting someone.

Is it possible, once people are in a comfy relationship they start going out less often? Speaking from experience, I'd say it's quite possible, and the older they get even moreso. Nights-in with a DVD and a take-away and off licence probably beat heading into town, more often than before.

You could say, live music is dependent on lots of single people who are there to meet others while checking out bands.

Waking-Dreams

Einstein wrote: »

Dublin (or Ireland more specifically) doesn't have a scene. They have underaverage venues, a national broadcaster who has no interest in playing up and coming bands...and a populous who generally have no interest in Live music.

Hence, why any decent bands, who genuinely want to do something, will leave the country and head for The UK or Germany.

I could honestly say the same thing about Canada, except I don't agree with your statement; I think you're only half right. There's a mix of different venues, there's also a mix of different people who like live music and those who could care less. Making generalisations doesn't help.

Broadcasters are also owned by big media corporations, and driven by their traditional economic logic; sell advertising space.

It is not in their interest to play up and coming bands, only approved playlists of top 40 artists. But anyways, you're forgetting that no one really listens to much radio except for the talk radio shows, so what's the problem? Do you think if a band doesn't get radio play they are at a big disadvantage? Explain then how lots of non-mainstream type bands who would never get radio play still manage to establish huge followings. There's more than just radio.

bassbomber

maccored wrote: »

theres no point in bands blaming venues. if you have an original band and cant get a gig in a venue, play one online or organise one in someones gaff - do something rather than throw the hands up in the air giving out.

very true alot of us need to get off our arses but even still its a massive uphill struggle which few get very far with

The Volt

It seems to me like Homestar Runner came out (I actually like these) and then dozens of bands tried to mimmick them but ended up sounding like Blink-182 with diarrhoea