problem with a priest

blueshed

1st=if this is the wrong place for this thread im sorry and please move asap.

myself and my wife want to get our 8 week old son christened in the parish just down the road from our village,its a different parish to ours.
the priest whom i know just a small bit said he would christen our son once we get a letter from our parish priest.
the problem is our parish priest refused to give us a letter to allow this to happen.
he said our son must be christened in his church by him end of story.
the same priest refused to sign some papers we needed to get married in a catholic church by a catholic priest on a greek island in 2006.
same story he would marry us in his church end of story.
we had to go back to our parents parish and got these papers signed no problem.
we moved to this parish in 2000.
my wife would attend church 2 or 3 times a month
i would only go 2 or 3 times a year.
we live in co meath.
is there anything we can do,can we go over his head.
i dont want this man to christen my son but i also dont want to lie to a different priest and give one of our parents address etc.
some info and help would be great
thanks.

philologos

What is the issue with baptising your son in your local parish?

blueshed

the problem is with the priest.
imo he not a very nice person,very cold,very old fashioned.
as i said in 2006 we met him to sign some papers for us and he was very rude to us and refused to sign the papers.
the 2 other priests we then had to meet had no problems signing the papers.
he even went as far to say all forigen marriges were a sham and the priest on the greek island was a fraud and our marriage would not be legal.

philologos

You mentioned your parents parish. Is that still an option?

I find such bureaucracy to be a pain in the neck personally. Perhaps if you started attending the other church, rather than the church in your parish, that might make the case easier?

Again, this is regrettable

blueshed

because i live in this parish i need the letter from my parish priest (the one i have the problem with )
it would not mater if i went to mass 7 days a week in the parish 5km down the road.
i just dont want this priest to baptise my son.
we could use my parents or my wifes parents address and get our son baptised in either church but we dont want to lie about it either.
a friend said that the priest we want may be able to use our parish church.

ballsymchugh

go above his station. i'm sure there's been plenty of marriages that have been done abroad that are less of a sham than some done in this country. i would find what he said pretty insulting to be honest. there's obviously a breakdown in trust there so you should contact the adm of the diocese and explain the problem.

The Smurf

I don't know the specifics of this case, but in order for a child to be baptised, there has to be a realistic prospect of the child being brought up in the Catholic faith. This means, among other things, that the child would be taught by word and deed, by the parents primarily, the Catholic faith, and would include attendance at Sunday Mass and preparation for the Sacraments in due course. To do otherwise is an injustice for the child.

I don't really know what rights people have within the Church. I'm not a Canon lawyer and I don't know anything about that. But as well as rights, we all have responsibilities too. I don't know anything about getting married within the Catholic Church abroad. As Christian parents, you have a special responsibility. I'd suggest you discuss, calmly and respectfully, what the issue is with this priest and what his specific concerns are. It is right that you should give him an opportunity to explain what's what, before you 'go over his head'. His concerns may be sincere and valid - he may not necessarily be just being awkward or difficult, though of course there are some priests who are just so. If that is the case, you can then take the next step.

This link may be helpful to you:

http://www.catholicparents.org/educating.html

ISAW

a lot of the rules about marriage are pratical e.g. about making sure people who have children out of wedlock or are adopted don't get into trouble down the line. One idea is that your children who may have different parents are well documented so if in future one of thenm gets married they are not marryong a sister or a brother.


forgive me in advance but I will point out what an administrator of a diocese might in my view think if a similar case came before them.

If you don't go to Mass then why are you so set in having your child baptised into a faith you don't practice? Do you pray or do you intend to teach your children family prayers and pray with them? Or is it just a ritual for you? Maybe that is the way the priest is thinking?

Anyway the actual sacrement does not require a priest. You can baptise a child yourself. They probably won't tell you this. I would not advise it though because you wont have any paperwork without witnessess.
then you are back into the baptismal cert when the child wants to get married or when you want to put the Child into a Christian school. There is a baptismal cert which actually states all the denominations which recognise the baptism . They probably won't mention that either. You could go to the parish next door and tell them you reaLLY WANT TO BAPTISE THE CHILD BUT HOW WOULD THEY BE CONVINCED OF YOUR COMMITTMENT TO BRING THE cHILD UP IN THE FAITH? But how also can they refuse a sacrament?


oops sorry about the caps . Hit caps lock by mistake. The parish priest next door is also bound by rules too to respect a parish priest of another parish.

I suppose you could approach the priest and tell him you are not happy and that your personal feelings or his don't come into this. You are talking about the sacrement of baptism for your child. Then you can expect to face the music - old style - because I expect he will say baptism demands commitment from you. In which case your humility will demand his respect.

I am now getting confused because if baptism is all that matters why don't you get it in your parish? And why do you want to use the parish next door? Why don't you ask the priest in your Parish to do the baptism in the other Church? Or the other priest to do it in yours? Or is it the ritual and surroundings that matter?

Failing that ( and why should it fail) you can appeal to a higher level but i would learn more about the sacraments and how they are administered first. You don't want to get into a canon law dispute and later find out all the implications for getting into schools etc. But maybe you don't care about school and are really serious about the sacrament? In which case i would have to say your admitted lack of interest in church attendance and personalising issues with a prelate doesn't help your case.

I hope and pray your resolve this issue.

Fanny Cradock

There might be better solutions, but as flippant as it might sound, I would ask to see the manager!

If this priest is being unreasonable and your attempts at going sideways to another a more accommodating and agreeable priest (in both senses of the word) are blocked then I think the only solution is to go above him and see what can be done. Just try to do it in a tactful manner.

Michael G

Your wife goes to Mass from time to time, and you seldom go. Why do you think you have the right to demand that the priest does this? He is not a public servant. The child himself is independent of you. He has the right to be baptised; or, rather, any Catholic or any other Christian has a duty to baptise him. But if you expect some kind of public ceremony, I think you expect too much.

The Big Red Button

Michael G wrote: »

Your wife goes to Mass from time to time, and you seldom go. Why do you think you have the right to demand that the priest does this? He is not a public servant. The child himself is independent of you. He has the right to be baptised; or, rather, any Catholic or any other Christian has a duty to baptise him. But if you expect some kind of public ceremony, I think you expect too much.

But the priest in question is perfectly willing to baptise the child, that's not the issue at all! He just won't let anyone else do it!

He sounds to me like a petty nasty old man, to be honest.

The Smurf

chatterpillar wrote: »

But the priest in question is perfectly willing to baptise the child, that's not the issue at all! He just won't let anyone else do it!

He sounds to me like a petty nasty old man, to be honest.

We simply don't know that. All we know is the one side of the story that has been presented.

It is the ordinary way of things that you have your child baptised by your PP.

It is not really on to be rejecting your PP. I mean, the baptism is valid, it is, like all the sacraments, definitely not dependent on the holiness of the priest to be valid.

So there would need to be some very good reasons why you would reject your local parish priest. We don't actually know there are any based on what we've been told. There might well be, but we don't know what they are.

I know very well there are difficult and faithless priests, but I also know that there are some very difficult lay people too. All I am saying is that we don't know either the priest, nor the couple, nor the specifics of the case.

The Big Red Button

The Smurf wrote: »

We simply don't know that. All we know is the one side of the story that has been presented.

It is the ordinary way of things that you have your child baptised by your PP.

It is not really on to be rejecting your PP. I mean, the baptism is valid, it is, like all the sacraments, definitely not dependent on the holiness of the priest to be valid.

So there would need to be some very good reasons why you would reject your local parish priest. We don't actually know there are any based on what we've been told. There might well be, but we don't know what they are.

I know very well there are difficult and faithless priests, but I also know that there are some very difficult lay people too. All I am saying is that we don't know either the priest, nor the couple, nor the specifics of the case.

Yeah, but from what we do know, the priest was an absolute a$$hole about the couple wanting to get married abroad. Which is a perfectly normal reasonable desire. If I was in the OPs position, that would be enough to put me off wanting the man to baptise my child.

Wacker

Michael G wrote: »

Your wife goes to Mass from time to time, and you seldom go.

Hang on, the OP said two or three times a month. That's not perfect for a Catholic, but it's certainly more than time-to-time. I'm confident that this priest being awkward will not halp raise this figure either.

Vinny-Chase

Could I be totally cynical and put it that the priest is miffed at missing out on the cash "donation" associated with marriage & baptism?

Why do you think you have the right to demand that the priest does this? He is not a public servant.

He is God's servant is he not? There to serve the church, not himself.

The Smurf

Vinny-Chase wrote: »

Could I be totally cynical and put it that the priest is miffed at missing out on the cash "donation" associated with marriage & baptism?

He is God's servant is he not? There to serve the church, not himself.

We all have rights and responsibilities in the Church. All Catholics are meant to keep the precepts of the Church.

The Seven Precepts of the Church


I. To attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation, and resting from servile works.

II. To observe the days of abstinence and fasting.

III. To confess our sins to a priest, at least once a year.

IV. To receive Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist at least once a year during Easter Season.

V. To contribute to the support of the Church.

VI. To obey the laws of the Church concerning Matrimony.

VII. To participate in the Church's mission of Evangelization of Souls.(Missionary Spirit of the Church

This is what it means to be a practicing Catholic. Become a parent, and you have additional responsibilities towards children. If a person is not living the Catholic life, it might be considered hypocritical for them to roll up and ask to have their child baptised, if there is no realistic prospect of the poor child being brought up in the faith. It's not fair on the child at all to be baptised, and then deprived of his spiritual inheritance.

Vinny-Chase

The OP said his wife attends church regularly. There's more to living a Catholic life than attending church.

I can guarantee I live a more Catholic life than most "holy rollers" that attend mass every week.

That priest to me represents the hypocrisy that I associate with the church.

The Smurf

Vinny-Chase wrote: »

The OP said his wife attends church regularly. There's more to living a Catholic life than attending church.

I can guarantee I live a more Catholic life than most "holy rollers" that attend mass every week.

That priest to me represents the hypocrisy that I associate with the church.

You're right. There is a lot of hypocrisy. A lot of people come to Mass for the wrong reasons, whether to be seen, to be viewed as a 'holy person', or just to please others.

But by coming to Mass, one shows that one has a basic commitment to the Catholic faith. How authentic that is is anybody's guess. We should leave the guessing to God. When they get to Mass, they should be taught and challenged to live a genuinely holy lifestyle. Two hot topics are modesty of dress and co-habitation, but you'll not hear those things mentioned by vast majority of priests. Nor will you hear about friendship with Jesus being the key, nor any mention of joy versus false gods in our lives. Most priests haven't a clue.

There are a lot of 'holy rollers' who are going to Mass for the wrong reasons. I blame the priests and bishops for not teaching the faith, but that is another matter.

The precepts merely provide an absolute bare minimum of what is required of Catholics. But simply keeping them does not mean one is at rights with God.

blueshed

thanks for all the replies etc.
just a quick update.
i meet my parish priest last nite and he has agreed to allow
us use his church with the priest of our choice.

Fanny Cradock

Good stuff!

Benincasa

This is what I expected would happen.

The reason why he insisted on the use of that parish was because you and your family live within that "jurisdiction" as it were. He is the one pastorally responsible for you. There is never (that I have heard of) a problem with another priest coming in to administer a sacrament, but permission must always be given by the parish priest.

It also makes it easier for people to trace records in the future. It doesn't sound important now, but roll on a few decades and it could end up very awkward if there were not baptismal records in the home parish.