Staying on Scope With Bigger Rounds

FISMA

Lads,
Trying to keep good practices and was at the range the other day. Was using the scope on the 22, 223, and the 30-06.

Shot the 22 and the 223 and had no problems keeping my eye on the target through the glass and seeing the 22 impact and finding the 223 hole. At 100yards it is actually kind of funny how the recoil is over and then you see the impact of the 22 - time delay.

The 30-06 was another story. I cannot stay on the glass throughout the shot and see the impact. Just too much kick. If I hold the fore-grip tight, then there's more wiggle when I shoot off sticks.

My question is how many of you are able to stay on scope without ever losing sight of your game (or target) and what's the biggest round you are able to do so. Also, I am not really talking about bench rest here, but sticks. However, feel free to comment on either.

It's also hard to not blink when the 30-06 makes its exit.

Thanks

Tackleberrywho

FISMA wrote: »

Lads,
Trying to keep good practices and was at the range the other day. Was using the scope on the 22, 223, and the 30-06.

Shot the 22 and the 223 and had no problems keeping my eye on the target through the glass and seeing the 22 impact and finding the 223 hole. At 100yards it is actually kind of funny how the recoil is over and then you see the impact of the 22 - time delay.

The 30-06 was another story. I cannot stay on the glass throughout the shot and see the impact. Just too much kick. If I hold the fore-grip tight, then there's more wiggle when I shoot off sticks.

My question is how many of you are able to stay on scope without ever losing sight of your game (or target) and what's the biggest round you are able to do so. Also, I am not really talking about bench rest here, but sticks. However, feel free to comment on either.

It's also hard to not blink when the 30-06 makes its exit.

Thanks

Moderator is your only hope IMHO &/or a heavy set up.
Fierce recoil from a .30-06 in comparison to a .22
many a lad down the years got shooters eye as a result.

I have a .308 with a moderator on and I can still see the target (just) after the shot. Small bit of shake, but you see it drop or not

However fair play to lads with these slim fast barrels :D:D:D and traditional hard kickers

jwshooter

the main reason i use a mod on my rifle ,its so important to see the strike .

FISMA

Not fond of paperwork and the coveted "S." Also, I just have a problem with anyone modifying my barrel - just don't like the idea.

I am still staying pretty much on target and always automatically rack another round. So it's not a huge problem. Unless you are a purist, which I may be.:pac:

Was just wishing if I could handle the 30-06 like the 22, life would be grand.

Slan

Cass

I have a .22lr, .223, .308 and 30-06.

The .22lr is a baby. Free recoil rifle and a piece of p**s to shoot.

The .223, while having a larger kick, is still easy to shoot and the mod makes it all the more easier.

The .308 has a "nice" kick. However with the rifle weighing in at a smidge under 18lbs the recoil is not as bad as say a lighter barrelled one. Also the Sinclair bipod is that extra factor to help keep good battery and on target. I can fire the rifle, have the recoil come straight back, and be back on target in time to see the "splash".


Now the 30-06 is a whole other ball of wax. The rifles comes in at just over 9lbs or so, but has a heavier kick than the .308 cal. I must admit to being "caught" by the recoil once or twice as the rifle feels and handles as a .22lr would. However hard i try, i have yet to get "perfect" battery when firing especially off a bench when zeroning or trying new ammo. I have reduced muzzle hop/flip by practising (live firing) and dry firing. Trying different techniques for hold, position and how best to deal with the recoil. Unfortunately there is no real "solution" i could give to eliminate it only to how best to deal with it. Remember one thing, its a hunting rifle. Not a target rifle. It will not perform as a target rifle both in grouping and firing performance. Its designed to be carried and fired occassionally.

All i could suggest (as said above) is to practise your hold. Dry fire to learn the trigger. Attempt different positions and try not to "stop" the recoil (its just not possible) as it has to go somewhere. Try live shots of a bench, sticks, sand bag. Lying down, will or may have benefits other positions will not have, and vice versa. See if you can adopt the best from all positions and combine to get YOUR perfect fit.

Tackleberrywho

FISMA wrote: »

Not fond of paperwork and the coveted "S." Also, I just have a problem with anyone modifying my barrel - just don't like the idea.

I am still staying pretty much on target and always automatically rack another round. So it's not a huge problem. Unless you are a purist, which I may be.:pac:

Was just wishing if I could handle the 30-06 like the 22, life would be grand.

Slan

Modifying a barrel is no big deal, a competent gunsmith will do a fantastic job on threading & Crowning. Whether to instal a break or a mod.

If you are a target "purist" if not I'd go with a mod. Easy get, relatively chaep and worth their weight in gold.
Imagine shooting a .30-06 with out being deafened and being more consistant and accurate as you are more erlaxed (my view anyway)

SpringerF

Ezridax's last post leads us onto "How tight should you hold your rifle" .

I once read an amusing story about an Officer cadet who asked his shooting instructor "how tight should I hold my gun".

Big mistake

After several minutes of eye popping spittleful shouting about what he should call his w****n the instructor said

To answer your question

Imagine your on the bank of an alligator infested river.
You have your sleeping baby daughter in your arms.
There is a bear charging down at you from behind.
The only way across is to run across the backs of the alligators.

How tight would you hold your baby daughter ?

Cass

SpringerF wrote: »

............."How tight should you hold your rifle" .................

This question is as old as the hills and has as many answers. Some will say death grip others will say barely touch it. It all depends on the rifle and the type of shooting obviously.

Examples of my preferences (which can change):

Benchrest .22lr - Set up rest and rifle on target. After that no further contact with the rifle. Thumb is behind the trigger guard and index finger on the trigger. Studying wind flags and watchful eye on the scope/target. Touch of the trigger and fire. Basically 2 finger hold.

.223/Varmint rifle - Firm grip, but not a death hold on the stock. Also firm grip on the forend of the stock. Never hold too tightly as you will have so much pressure on a tight grip you will end up shaking very soon after putting rifle to your shoulder. Stock firmly pulled into shoulder, but movement to freely move.

.308 target rifle - Firmly up against my shoulder. Rifle is on bipod and rear bag. Last 3 fingers (middle to baby) wrap around the grip. Thumb along top of grip aiming towards the back of the bolt. Index finger gentle touching the trigger. Using the three fingers on the grip i pull the rifle into my shoulder, enough to secure and keep steady, but not enough that i "cramp" under the pressure. No tension in my shoulder and fire.

30-06 Hunter - Good tight grip, again though, without squeezing to death. Pulling strongly into shoulder. Thumb around the back of the grip for extra grip. Leaing slightly into the shot allowing the body motion to absorb some of the recoil.

Pistol - I'm still trying with this so bear with me. Main hand (in my case right) around the grip. Three fingers around grip, thumb around back of the grip and index along trigger guard until ready to fire. Left hand cupping (on the outside) the right hand. Three fingers (again middle to baby) cover the three of the right hand. Index along the slide , but under it so as not to loose the finger or around the front of the trigger guard. (personal preferene) Thumb of left hand lying along left side of the pistol also under the slide. Good pressure, but not too much. Again you are fighting your natural body movement and cannot remain perfectly still. So try find a subtle movement that allow to remain on target will not putting yourself under too much strain or tension.

Shotgun - For clays i pull the gun into my shoulder. I have the grip of the stock well held, but AGAIN not grasped to death. Both arms are out from my body with the left hand along the forend stock but not under it. Onlythe 3 fingers (middle to baby) are under the forend the thumb and index are along the side of the forend stock. Leaning forward into the shot and allowing the shoulder and body to absorb the recoil without trying to fight against it.
The same basics apply for game shooting. Arms are in a different position, but most of the clay shooting grip and hold is the same.

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

This question is as old as the hills and has as many answers. Some will say death grip others will say barely touch it. It all depends on the rifle and the type of shooting obviously.

Examples of my preferences (which can change):

Benchrest .22lr - Set up rest and rifle on target. After that no further contact with the rifle. Thumb is behind the trigger guard and index finger on the trigger. Studying wind flags and watchful eye on the scope/target. Touch of the trigger and fire. Basically 2 finger hold.

.223/Varmint rifle - Firm grip, but not a death hold on the stock. Also firm grip on the forend of the stock. Never hold too tightly as you will have so much pressure on a tight grip you will end up shaking very soon after putting rifle to your shoulder. Stock firmly pulled into shoulder, but movement to freely move.

.308 target rifle - Firmly up against my shoulder. Rifle is on bipod and rear bag. Last 3 fingers (middle to baby) wrap around the grip. Thumb along top of grip aiming towards the back of the bolt. Index finger gentle touching the trigger. Using the three fingers on the grip i pull the rifle into my shoulder, enough to secure and keep steady, but not enough that i "cramp" under the pressure. No tension in my shoulder and fire.

30-06 Hunter - Good tight grip, again though, without squeezing to death. Pulling strongly into shoulder. Thumb around the back of the grip for extra grip. Leaing slightly into the shot allowing the body motion to absorb some of the recoil.

Pistol - I'm still trying with this so bear with me. Main hand (in my case right) around the grip. Three fingers around grip, thumb around back of the grip and index along trigger guard until ready to fire. Left hand cupping (on the outside) the right hand. Three fingers (again middle to baby) cover the three of the right hand. Index along the slide , but under it so as not to loose the finger or around the front of the trigger guard. (personal preferene) Thumb of left hand lying along left side of the pistol also under the slide. Good pressure, but not too much. Again you are fighting your natural body movement and cannot remain perfectly still. So try find a subtle movement that allow to remain on target will not putting yourself under too much strain or tension.

Shotgun - For clays i pull the gun into my shoulder. I have the grip of the stock well held, but AGAIN not grasped to death. Both arms are out from my body with the left hand along the forend stock but not under it. Onlythe 3 fingers (middle to baby) are under the forend the thumb and index are along the side of the forend stock. Leaning forward into the shot and allowing the shoulder and body to absorb the recoil without trying to fight against it.
The same basics apply for game shooting. Arms are in a different position, but most of the clay shooting grip and hold is the same.

I did some shooting Via a Sagittarius Thales rig

This showed your grip pressure, before and after the shot, and your trigger pressure before and after the shot.
It also showed your cant.
My cant and grip pressure were perfect, however I released the pressure off trigger after .5 of a second after the shot.

I've worked on this since, Technology can help

Cass

Its an action i've been guilty of myself. Pulling the trigger slowly and carefully then as soon as the shot was fired releasing the trigger quickly as though it were on fire. I too have rectified this by purposely holding the trigger for a second or two after the shot has been fired and concentrating more on hold, recoil and target retention.










PS- Tack, a polite request not meant to insult, but could you just use the "Post Reply" tab rather than quoting the entire previous post. A pet peeve of mine. Thats why i rarely view the "picture thread". Too many use the quote tab and use enitre posts and pictures when replying when it is not necessary.

Tackleberrywho

I will Ezri!

I can't help it! I use anywhere from 15-30 pcs PDA's to reply to Boards.ie

More addictive than cigarettes

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

.......... I use anywhere from 15-30 pcs PDA's to reply to Boards.ie

SEEK HELP

:D:D:D:D

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

SEEK HELP[/COLOR



I must

It wasn't me!

I will usually see the strike with my .25-06. Beyond that, it's just not going to happen for me. I set the gun up so there's no tension in the bipod and it's not twisted at all and hold it firmly in my shoulder, while keeping the shoulder itself relaxed. Lean into the shot. Anything bigger than that, no way I'm going to see the shot, just too much flip and too much recoil. Now, on live game, I'd still see the reaction to it, but I'm not going to see the impact itself.

jwshooter

or just shoot it from the hip

FISMA

JWS,
I'll have to wear a 10 gallon hat and some cowboy boots when I am shooting from the hip.

Knew a young fella that could break clays from the hip all day long: trap, skeet, and modern.

Tackleberrywho

FISMA wrote: »

JWS,
I'll have to wear a 10 gallon hat and some cowboy boots when I am shooting from the hip.

Knew a young fella that could break clays from the hip all day long: trap, skeet, and modern.

I have a Ten Gallon Hat you can borrow!:D

FISMA

Camo or blaze orange TackleBerry.

Tackleberrywho

FISMA wrote: »

Camo or blaze orange TackleBerry.

Black! I'm a Johnny Cash Fan!!

Tackleberrywho

The importance of a firm grip!

4gun

When I'm holding my .308 the pulse in my fingers moves the crosshairs all over the place, not a problem with the .223...
this is because I have a tighter grip on the .308 to keep controll of the flip
any suggestions

Tackleberrywho

4gun wrote: »

When I'm holding my .308 the pulse in my fingers moves the crosshairs all over the place, not a problem with the .223...
this is because I have a tighter grip on the .308 to keep controll of the flip
any suggestions

Moderator or break.

I hold .308 no different than .223. I give them all a firm grip and make it the normal/

I have even noticed after installing 2 timneys I could never go back to the old soggy triggers now

LongRifle

4gun wrote: »

When I'm holding my .308 the pulse in my fingers moves the crosshairs all over the place, not a problem with the .223...
this is because I have a tighter grip on the .308 to keep controll of the flip
any suggestions

Learn to slow your heart rate by taking a deep breath, hold it for about ten seconds and then let it out as slow as you can. When your heart is beating nice and slow and rhythmic, take three natural breaths and pause at the bottom of the third. Begin to squeeze the trigger while in this pause and then break the shot between your heart beats.

Sounds like a lot to be doing and thinking about while taking the shot but after a bit of practice you'll find you can slip into this little bubble of calm quite quickly and easily.

FISMA

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

The importance of a firm grip!

Tackleberry,

Someone should put a firm grip on the throat of that kid's father or whomever claimed to be in charge.

I've seen this one and it was so painfully obvious what was going to happen. Her form was so bad, you knew the stock was going to slip.

I have no idea what the idiot-in-charge was thinking.

A scope in the eye - that's a great way to encourage the next generation.

They obviously have no idea just how vulnerable the eye socket area is. How easily it can be cut open, or fractured.

The worst is that if you were to fracture the back of the eye (probably not gonna happen in this case) when the fracture heals it sometimes grabs a nerve - not good.

Eye protection?

"Cover her ears" - are you serious? Did you hear them say that?

Embarrassing and worse, unsafe.

tac foley

The Rifle Grip, by Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock USMC, one of the finest shots - in both target rifle and and military sniping - of the last century, and a man who knew something about it.

'Adopting the prone position, and otherwise correctly positioned, with your left hand grasp the forend of the rifle firmly in the left hand. Take the wrist/pistol grip of the rifle firmly in the right hand, and, without placing the finger on the trigger, try to rotate the forend of the rifle in a clockwise direction and at the same time, try and rotate the pistol grip of the rifle in an ANTI-clockwise direction. In effect, you must try and imagine that the rifle can actually be unscrewed into two separate pieces somewhere between your gripping hands.

Try with your best effort to accomplish the task of 'unscrewing' the rifle - make your hands work hard at the effort - and then, just as you start to tremble with that effort, relax slightly so that the tremor stops.

THAT is the grip on the rifle.

This will serve to steady the rifle in your grip - so practice it until it becomes second nature.'

Try it or ignore it. But don't blame me for whatever happens. It just happens to work for me.

tac

Tackleberrywho

FISMA wrote: »

Tackleberry,

Someone should put a firm grip on the throat of that kid's father or whomever claimed to be in charge.

I've seen this one and it was so painfully obvious what was going to happen. Her form was so bad, you knew the stock was going to slip.

I have no idea what the idiot-in-charge was thinking.

A scope in the eye - that's a great way to encourage the next generation.

They obviously have no idea just how vulnerable the eye socket area is. How easily it can be cut open, or fractured.

The worst is that if you were to fracture the back of the eye (probably not gonna happen in this case) when the fracture heals it sometimes grabs a nerve - not good.

Eye protection?

"Cover her ears" - are you serious? Did you hear them say that?

Embarrassing and worse, unsafe.

1 idiot born every minute

On Topic
I have seen to date 3 fellas get shooters eye, all were .22lr heads who got complacent with holding.