shotguns

bazza888

any views on these 2shotguns,would be used as an allrounder for vermin etc ? anyone have one of them?also can you get the pump action in 3shots so its not restricted?
http://www.shoot.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_23&products_id=168

http://www.shoot.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_23&products_id=67

Tackleberrywho

bazza888 wrote: »

any views on these 2shotguns,would be used as an allrounder for vermin etc ? anyone have one of them?also can you get the pump action in 3shots so its not restricted?
http://www.shoot.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_23&products_id=168

http://www.shoot.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_23&products_id=67

Both are good Guns in their own rights.
The double barrel will be more versatile as it has different chokes and can get 2 shots off quicker than the pump can.

having said that Pump guns are great fun

A Baikal will be bought second hand for much less than that.
A lumar has interchangeable chokes the baikal is multi choked so you have slightly more options.

As a starter package the Baikal is a good deal as 250 shells will keep you going for ages if he gives you hunting ammo (me thinks he will give you cheap trap shells though retails 25shells ~€4 total value ~€40 of ammo)

I'm guessing you are on a budget so the Baikal deal will have you shooting.
The Remington Pump Ask is the CHOKE removeable, as if you buy shells and a cheap Plano (made in China case) the deal is very similar.

Up to you after that

bazza888

i would have to get the pump blocked for only 3 shots also i dont want hassle of going restricted,so maybe baikal is the best option,wouldnt mind going second hand if you could get something 2nd hand thats better for roughly the same price

Tackleberrywho

bazza888 wrote: »

i would have to get the pump blocked for only 3 shots also i dont want hassle of going restricted,so maybe baikal is the best option,wouldnt mind going second hand if you could get something 2nd hand thats better for roughly the same price

For €700 you would pick up a second hand semi auto, (3 shot chamber) in top class condition.

You should take a look at second hand Lumar & Fabarm. For ~€600 you would get a reasonably good deal most places.

Always watch what is thrown in !
Hunting ammo is anywhere from €10 -35 a box for premium shells.
€10 being the average price.

Most fellas throw in ammo they can't shift.
Them plano cases are cheap.

try http://irishguntrader.openseason.ie/

it should give you more contrast.

It's no big deal to plug a semi or pump, piece of plastic in the tube is all, they come with the shotty so don't let that make a decesion for you.
A shotgun "to me" if in the field needs to be light yet recoil is acceptable, have a nice coloured bead on the end to see Daffy Duck in the winter sky, and be able to take 3" magnum shells at a min.
And REMOVABLE chokes!! Make sure they can be removed
if in a double barrel a trigger select is nice "sometimes if you flick th esafety on some shotty's left or right you can choose the barrel which will shoot ie: have a tight choke in one and an open choke in the other. Desirable but not essential

Shop around as there are thousands of shotty's in the country between all the dealers and licence holders to choose from.

Don't run out and buy the first thing you see in your budget

bazza888

what about the likes of this?
http://www.shoot.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_23&products_id=32

FISMA

Bazza,
TackleBerry's advice and response is sound, here's my two cents worth.

I have owned both and them to be fantastic. The Rem 870 is renowned for its functionality and reliability. It is the the pump that all other pumps look up to. Go to America and you will find one in most cop cars.

The 870's popularity is great when it comes to add-on's. You'll be able to pick up barrels like there's no tomorrow. If you want a long barrel, short barrel, choked barrel, deer/slug barrel, it's just a matter of putting it on. However, don't forget - we are not allowed the shotgun for deer.

The handicap is the pump. However, it is not much. I shoot a pump fine on the skeet course.

The IZH-27 is a fine gun too. The o/u will be more versatile than a bird gun - sxs. I could do without its auto-extractors and I dislike the safety that always resets - you can never turn it off completely like trap-skeet guns. Whenever you close the action, you're safe. Thus, it is a field gun.

What about an auto? If you want versatility, then IMHO, an auto is the way to go.

The CZ 712 is a no nonsense auto that you'll love. If you can afford the Italians or can bring in an American, work away. However, the CZ712 is a fine firearm.

I cannot speak to the auto Baikals. However, it should be fine. Just keep in mind that the Russians are exactly artisans. Don't expect the fit, finish, or the wood to be of the quality of the Italians. Baikals are grand field guns.

johngalway

FISMA wrote: »

I cannot speak to the auto Baikals. However, it should be fine. Just keep in mind that the Russians are exactly artisans. Don't expect the fit, finish, or the wood to be of the quality of the Italians. Baikals are grand field guns.

My very first gun, which I still have, is a Baikal MP-153. Nothing which I've loaded it with has failed to cycle. I've hit plenty of greycrows and foxes with it, a few magpies too. This season will be my first using it on Daffy. I'm 6'3 and I think it fits me OK, when I shoulder the gun I'm looking down the rib at the bead. Whether it fits me perfectly or not I can't say as I've never been fitted for a gun and neither have I been around people who'd know about that with it in my hands.

The only problem I had with it was the action lock (I think that's what it's called) broke due to a bubble inside the metal. This was replaced faster than immediately. I done in the magazine spring too but that was solely due to careless storage on my part and no fault of the guns operation or that particular part.

I'm not knocking them, I think they're good guns but I like owning a Baikal when I hear owners of more expensive guns complaining about a particular coat bubbling problem or God forbid they scratched their gun, blah blah blah.

Mine's for shootin', not looking at.

Grizzly 45

bazza888 wrote: »

i would have to get the pump blocked for only 3 shots also i dont want hassle of going restricted,so maybe baikal is the best option,wouldnt mind going second hand if you could get something 2nd hand thats better for roughly the same price

For the money and quality I would go the Remmy 870.It is more diverse platform that can be modified to pretty much anything you want.Nor would I be worried baout getting off a 2nd shot any slower.Once you practise with one of these guns,you will be just as fast.

johngalway

I shot one of those Baikal O/U's once, kicked like a donkey.

bazza888

cool,i must have a good root round see what 2nd hand ones are out there!the 870 new is very cheap so wasnt sure if it be that great!but all reports i see say it is a great gun!

CJhaughey

I have the 870 express supermag.
I bought it 2nd hand and have been very happy with its performance, bar extraction with some shells.
I polished the chamber and haven't had any hassle since.
Like John this year I would like to do some duck shooting for a change,
The finish on the express models is not refined but they aren't meant to be an expensive firearm, more of a working tool.
There are hundreds of parts and accessories available for them so if you don't like something about it, you can change it very easily and cheaply.

bazza888

how much was it 2nd hand if you dont mind me asking?

bazza888

Im going to have a look at a few remingtons today to see what they are like,what would i need to be watching out for on a 2nd hand remington 870 to make sure shes a good gun?

Grizzly 45

So long as it looks like it hasnt been dragged by a truck down four miles of highway,and then left for six months in a salt mud bath,it's a good 870:D.Very little goes wrong with these guns.Would make sure its action is smooth when you cycle it,with no binding points.And that the trigger mechanism functions cleanly.Usually the entire trigger mech might be full of crud if it hasnt been maintained properly.
Apart from that I cant say I've ever had any problems with the 870.

bazza888

I forgot most of the gunshops closed today,was given the price of 650e for a new rem 870 for the exact same new rem 870 duffys is doing for 495e! the normal basic model crazy diffrence in price

Tackleberrywho

bazza888 wrote: »

I forgot most of the gunshops closed today,was giving price of 650e new for the exact same new rem 870 duffys is doing for 495e!

Make sure Duffy is still using that price and won't try fob you off with some schpeel saying prices have increased.

If you want a shotty that you can have some fun building on then Remington are great for it.

Although if you want to do a lot of water fowling Duck/Geese go for the 3 1/2" Magnum shotty in 870 if available.

3 1/2" are supposed to be the bizz on foxes too.
I can only guess they are as my shotty is a 3" mag max capacity

johngalway

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

3 1/2" are supposed to be the bizz on foxes too.
I can only guess they are as my shotty is a 3" mag max capacity

To be honest, 3.5" 64gram BB carts won't kill a fox any deader than a 34 or 36 gram BB load in a smaller cart. What they will do is kick harder and take longer for the barrel to get back on target should a follow up shot be needed.

Besides teaching me the above and how to hold the gun properly - ouch - I have no further use for them with the shooting I do.

bazza888

rang duffys there he said 495 and he would take my old gun as trade in!he couldnt understand how someone be charging 650 for a normal 870 thats even more than hes charging for a the 887 nitro mag or 870super mag

bazza888

the 2 im looking at are 3" the more expensive guns go up to3.5"

J.R.

bazza888 wrote: »

I forgot most of the gunshops closed today,was given the price of 650e for a new rem 870 for the exact same new rem 870 duffys is doing for 495e! the normal basic model crazy diffrence in price

Are you sure he was quoting you for the 870 Express and not the 870 Wingmaster?

Wingmaster has better wood, & detail....(fancier)

bazza888

i asked was it the normal base model he said yeah,ill try him again tomorrow to make sure!you could be right hope its a missunderstanding!be nice buy it close to home

fodda

Dont know where you are but John O'Malley at Island Sports? in Castlbar has the 870 at the same price so i was told the other day.

Not sure where Brian has moved too but John's place dead easy at the end of the Dublin Road and no Galway traffic or any traffic:mad::mad::eek::eek:

bazza888

kildare,yeah duffys new place seems handy enough to get to so might make the trip if i cant get it for the same price round here,have check 2more shops here they were closed today

J.R.

I had a left - handed Remington 870 Wingmaster pump action for 23 years (yes they're around that long!)

I did a lot of rough shooting with it and it never let me down, except towrds the end. Great finish & after all that time the gun looked as good as new, even though it had gone through briars, hedges, mud etc.......great paint finish that doesn't wear. Saying that it was always maintained & cleaned thoroughly.

You asked how you'd check a good second hand 870. After having one for 23 years my answer is I don't know!!!! May sound strange but the reason is:

I had the pump for 23 years & was delighted with it. 5 years ago I noticed that it was 'missing' bringing up a shell after firing a shot. This only happened rarely.....may every 20 - 30 shots. When it happened I'd fire, pump, fire but nothing had come up....my guess is that the receiver was slightly worn and beginning to miss an odd time. Very annoying when it happened...even though it was rarely. On a winter fox shoot two foxes broke rrom cover ahead of the dogs....I fired and dropped one....pumped and fired.....nothing...cartridge hadn't come up....fox gone so decided there and then to trade it in. When I traded the gun in it was practically immaculate ...wood as good as new (besides a few slight scratches) and gun blueing still very good and fresh looking. I knew the gun dealer I was trading in to and told him the reason I was trading. I bought a left - handed Benelli Montrefeltro semi-auto. I always liked the pump but decided to go for a change.

Saying that I couldn't fault the 870. I fire 2,500 - 3,000 cartridges a year ( most of them crow & pigeon decoying) Over 23 years that's nearly 75,000 cartridges....no wonder it was showing so signs of wear!!! The gun dealer looked at the gun when trading in...lokked at wood, looked down the barrels,...opened the breech and remarked that the gun has been well maintained and looked after....it was then I told him the reason. Looking at that gun you couldn't spot signs of wear....so that's why I can't advise you what to look for.

I am delighted with the Benelli....can't fault it.

One thing I really miss about the pump is you could pump a shell out quickly if not required. What i mean is that often at on the Sunday fox shoot when the heavy cover has been done we would hunt surrounding hedges or bogland....chance of a snipe, pheasant or woodcock. I would have a 7 in followed by 2 BB Alphamax in case of a fox. If a fox broke I could pump out the 7 quickly and then fire the BB's.

You will be able to fire a pump practically as quick as as O/U or semi with practice. The trick is to be able to pump for the second shot while its still in your shoulder....some lads fire, take the gun down, pump and remount it to fire second shot...valuable seconds lot. When firing and holding the foreend with slight pressure it will start to come back (with practice) when shot fired, just pump it back quickly and you're ready again. In fact the pumping action tended to steady you and get you on line for next shot.

The reason I changed to a semi, even though I loved the pump for years, was that

1. many clay shoot (I'm not a clay shooter..just go to support clubs) didn't want to see them.

2.Also some landowners remarked that 'ye'er man' will shoot all around him with that 'yoke'!!!

3. The two above didn't really bother me but I liked the feel & fit of the Benelli & decided to go with a change.

CJhaughey

Bazza888
I paid around 300 for my 870, with black synthetic stock. It was a real credit to its former owner though.
The 887 is a lesson on not fixing what isn't broken. I am hearing reports on the polymer delaminating from the receiver.
The 870 will never win a beauty contest but it has been around for 60 years.
Not many firearms can boast that and still be in production.
If you don't need to shoot 3.5" shells don't bother with the supermag, it's not necessary you can still get 3" light magnum shells.

bazza888

ok not so bad thats a good price,sounds like the 870 is just right for me i want the synthetic tpe aswell,as per what you said about people not liking pumps do people still have that attitude?would it be hard get into aclub if they you were using a pump,they are all plugged for 3 shots now

CJhaughey

bazza888 wrote: »

ok not so bad thats a good price,sounds like the 870 is just right for me i want the synthetic tpe aswell,as per what you said about people not liking pumps do people still have that attitude?would it be hard get into aclub if they you were using a pump,they are all plugged for 3 shots now

To be honest if someone judges you on what kind of shotgun you use then you are probably better off not knowing them.
There are still people with that mentality but as Bunny Shooters recent thread on semi and pumps being banned arbitrarily from a club shoot shows it means nothing.
A safe firearms handler should be aware of their particular firearms safe operation. Safety is the responsibility of the shooter and a pump or semi is no more or less safe than a SxS or O/U shotgun.