Iran unveils unmanned bomber

Steyr

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/08/23/346450/iran-unveils-unmanned-bomber.html

Defence
DATE:23/08/10
SOURCE:Flight International

Iran unveils unmanned bomber
By Arie Egozi

Iran unveiled its new unmanned aerial vehicle 22 Aug, a bomber largely based on the South African Skua target drone.

Israeli analysts say the Iranians have changed the location of the wing and engine but the basic design is of the target drone.

The Karrar was displayed carrying a 226.8kg (500lb) bomb. In another image it was shown armed with four Iranian-made Kosar anti-ship missiles, a copy of a Chinese missile. It is also said to be capable of carrying two 250lb bombs.

Tal Inbar, a senior researcher in the Fisher Brothers Institute for Aviation and Space in Israel, said that the Iranian UAV is powered by a Tulu jet engine. "This is probably a copy of an old TRI-60 French jet engine," he says.

In the images shown on Iranian television, there is no sign of a satellite communications system and therefore the aircraft would not be capable of real-time intelligence missions. Iranian TV also reported the drone has a maximum speed of 486kts (900 km/h) and a 900km range. Inbar and other Israeli analysts assess that the Karar may have a range of 1000km.

Inbar said that while the Karrar -- "striker" in Persian -- was presented as a long-range attack system, it is equipped with a recovery chute. The South african Skua on which it is based can be launched and recovered up to 20 times. The Skua also only has line-of-sight comminucations capablities.

Earlier this month, Denel Dynamics was awarded a 2.4 million rand ($329.3 million) contract to upgrade the Skua.

CokaColumbo

From the pictures I saw of The Ambassador of Death, I thought the drone looked pretty cheap and flimsy, i.e. that Iran are bluffing and trying to scare away any sort of military intervention in the country, but the video of the aircraft in action and the international assessment of its capabilities are pretty convincing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu2yUGXPZs4

johngalway

Steyr wrote: »

In the images shown on Iranian television, there is no sign of a satellite communications system and therefore the aircraft would not be capable of real-time intelligence missions.

That must seriously limit it's use against a modern military?

Would it need to be pre-programmed, or could it still be flown remotely I wonder?

Donny5

Steyr wrote: »

Earlier this month, Denel Dynamics was awarded a 2.4 million rand ($329.3 million) contract to upgrade the Skua.

2.4m R ≠ 329.3m USD

tac foley

johngalway wrote: »

That must seriously limit it's use against a modern military?

Would it need to be pre-programmed, or could it still be flown remotely I wonder?

Irans has no intention of using such a thing against a modern military.

All it has to do is to point it at Israel and hope for the best.

ALL of Israel is a target for Iran, military or civilian. Landing one anywhere in Israel is a success for them.

tac

BlaasForRafa

tac foley wrote: »

Irans has no intention of using such a thing against a modern military.

All it has to do is to point it at Israel and hope for the best.

ALL of Israel is a target for Iran, military or civilian. Landing one anywhere in Israel is a success for them.

tac

It does look rather reminiscent of a V2. I would have thought it would be pretty easy for the IAF to shoot this type of craft down.

tac foley

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

It does look rather reminiscent of a V2. I would have thought it would be pretty easy for the IAF to shoot this type of craft down.

In fact, Sir, it looks like the V1, many of which WERE shot down by the RAF, or simply 'tipped' by flying under a wing until the gyro flipped and they crashed.

However, I'd agree with you that the Hh'A could shoot them down.

tac

BlaasForRafa

tac foley wrote: »

In fact, Sir, it looks like the V1, many of which WERE shot down by the RAF, or simply 'tipped' by flying under a wing until the gyro flipped and they crashed.

However, I'd agree with you that the Hh'A could shoot them down.

tac

Gah, the V1 was what I meant to write, mea culpa.

Ping Chow Chi

It looked pretty rubbish to be honest, I dont think anyone in the ME will be too worried about this V1 remake.

RMD

Although it's a step forward in technology, it isn't a very potent weapon by the looks of things compared to that of the Western forces.

Anyone know what cruise missiles it would be using? Considering it can only hold a payload of 500 Ibs by the looks of things.

tac foley

As an aside.....The United States Navy has a stockpile of around 3,500 Tomahawk cruise missiles of all variants....

Range 900 - 1200 nautical miles.

Accuracy - 10m

Warheads - ALL very unpleasant, including the 900m range ship-killer.

Read also all about the AEGIS weapon system...

tac

tac foley

Well, seems we don't have to worry too much about the new device cooked up by our hooked-nose heroes - read the Wall Street Journal report from yesterday...

From Michael Leeden in the WSJ:

"The Iranian regime loves to boast of its military strength, international clout and hold on domestic power. Much of this is accepted by outside experts, but in fact the regime is in trouble. Iran's leaders have lost legitimacy in the eyes of the people, are unable to manage the country's many problems, face a growing opposition, and are openly fighting with one another.

A few weeks ago, according to official and private reports, the Iranian air force shot down three drones near the southwestern city of Bushehr, where a Russian-supplied nuclear reactor has just started up. When the Revolutionary Guards inspected the debris, they expected to find proof of high-altitude spying. Instead, the Guards had to report to Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei that the air force had blasted Iran's own unmanned aircraft out of the sky.

Apparently, according to official Iranian press accounts, the Iranian military had created a special unit to deploy the drones—some for surveillance and others, as President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad bragged on Sunday, to carry bombs—but hadn't informed the air force."

That cheered me up considerably on this morning of a soft rain...

tac

Ping Chow Chi

well seing as the Iranian airforce has really really old planes and they are able to shoot them down, it would suggest that the drones are really really rubbish.

the_syco

At 0.21 it shows a wooden structure. With wooden planks nailed to the "missile".

Steyr wrote: »

Earlier this month, Denel Dynamics was awarded a 2.4 million rand ($329.3 million) contract to upgrade the Skua.

Donny5 wrote: »

2.4m R ≠ 329.3m USD

Decimal fail, actually. 2.4m R = 0.328188m USD (according to xe.com)

tac foley

the_syco wrote: »

At 0.21 it shows a wooden structure. With wooden planks nailed to the "missile".

Decimal fail, actually. 2.4m R = 0.328188m USD (according to xe.com)

Sounds a lot more in dog dollars though... DD$2.9M.....

Woof. := )

tac

Avgas

All UAVs, except maybe fast or high flying jet powered ones, are fairly easy to shoot down, unless maybe their really low, stealthy, or jet powered to be fast...more like a cruise missile. The Serbians shot down well over a dozen and I think closer to two dozen in the Kosovo war 1999. Iraqi's also shot down at least one BA tactical UAVs in 2003.

Regarding guidance, AFAIK, radio guidance would limit itself to about 400km before the nature of our spherical planet messes with radio signals too much, although maybe a radio relay service could boost that if they had an aerial platform. Its probably using then some form of inertial guidance if they are pretending to threaten Israel. Yes they could be shot down by the IDF, however it would cause no end of panic for them if say a few hundred were fired at them.

Expect the Israelis to get more and more interested in next generation automatic air-defence cannons. Given the Qassm plague, the puzzle is why their not deploying such systems in bulk already?

Liberalbrehon

Yeap, it's pretty much a V2 design. Easy to shoot down, problem is if they make thousands and launch quickly, aimed at Tel Aviv, they could do real damage, also could cloud the anti-missile defence shield, when launching their fewer bigger ones. It's a cheap way to circumvent sophisticated anit-missile systems.

BlaasForRafa

Liberalbrehon wrote: »

Yeap, it's pretty much a V2 design. Easy to shoot down, problem is if they make thousands and launch quickly, aimed at Tel Aviv, they could do real damage, also could cloud the anti-missile defence shield, when launching their fewer bigger ones. It's a cheap way to circumvent sophisticated anit-missile systems.

If Iran launched thousands of these at Israel then the IDF would absolutely pummel Iran even if just by conventional means. The IRIAF would not be able to handle a full scale assault by the IAF, they would be torn from the sky and then the IAF could bomb the crap out of Iranian cities....if thats what they wished to do.

Capt Blackadder

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

If Iran launched thousands of these at Israel then the IDF would absolutely pummel Iran even if just by conventional means. The IRIAF would not be able to handle a full scale assault by the IAF, they would be torn from the sky and then the IAF could bomb the crap out of Iranian cities....if thats what they wished to do.

If Iran launched thousands of such devices against Israel, hitting major infrastructure like population centres, communication and military instalations, who can say Israel would be capable of responding in a manner you have mentioned? It's something I sure as hell don't want to see happen at any rate.

Ping Chow Chi

Capt Blackadder wrote: »

If Iran launched thousands of such devices against Israel, hitting major infrastructure like population centres, communication and military instalations, who can say Israel would be capable of responding in a manner you have mentioned? It's something I sure as hell don't want to see happen at any rate.

Israel would just nuke Iran if their major population centres where hit by 1000's of Iranian missiles.

I'm pretty sure that Iran wouldn't do such a thing though, unless of course it's existance was already in threat of being wiped out.

Avgas

Ping Chow Chi wrote: »

Israel would just nuke Iran if their major population centres where hit by 1000's of Iranian missiles.

I'm pretty sure that Iran wouldn't do such a thing though, unless of course it's existance was already in threat of being wiped out.

Maybe. But the threshold for using nukes is very high even for a state like Israel. What if the Iranians starting lobbing V1 clones in batches....say three dozen one day...another five dozen a few days later then ....truce....then start it up again.....a few weeks later....or a swarm attack where the fire off 300 in one day?

It is worth recalling that in the 2003 Gulf War the Iraqis successfully fired a Chinese Silkworm anti-ship missile at Kuwait and it took out...a shopping market (apparently) . Yeah okay...hardly devestaing prowess....BUT the point is that even such a relatively low tech approach evaded US patriot batteries and other air defences. So low-low-low type attacks can work, assuming the guidance issue is somehow sorted. I think the major problem would the range such missile would have to travel.....it would give Israeli, US and maybe Saudi AWACs and other assets a bit of time to spot such VI clones....but what if they passed on the weapon to Hamas and it was fired much nearer?

Moreover, the point of such weapons is to DETER Israeli attacks in the first place. Its a game of bluff. The Iranians are saying 'we have some sort of more than rudimentary capability to strike Israel...yes its not very high tech but we could do it enough to make Israel think twice about hitting our nuke project sites.....'.

In these political uses, this is already a successful weapon for the Iranians.

Ping Chow Chi

Avgas wrote: »

Maybe. But the threshold for using nukes is very high even for a state like Israel. What if the Iranians starting lobbing V1 clones in batches....say three dozen one day...another five dozen a few days later then ....truce....then start it up again.....a few weeks later....or a swarm attack where the fire off 300 in one day?

I'm sure that if Iran where to start lobbing a few of these weapons at Israel that Israel would fly their nice fancy planes over Iran and bomb the crap out of a few high value targets.

I actually think that we are mainly in agreement by the way, I think that these v1 clones are an attempt by the Iranians to say 'look if you attack us, we might be able to hurt you also'. But I doubt that they would be very effective, but I could be wrong.