USMLEs

A Neurotic

So having read many of the discussions on work conditions and treatment of Interns and NCHDs in Ireland on the Health Sciences forum, I'm prompted to think about my future after medical school. I'm going into second year this September, all going to plan.

Just wondering what the procedure for taking USMLEs is in Ireland? Is step 1 taken after 2nd year here like in the US? Would I have to be entirely independent in registering and taking the exams, or will some of it be done through my college? Do they require a lot of work beyond my coursework? Do many non-American students take them?

Any other general info would be appreciated. Thanks.

lonestargirl

Historically you were on your own to study for USMLEs, as far as I know RCSI are to introduce some USMLE orientated classes in the near future - they have a lot of North American students so there have always been informal study groups there. Step 1 + Step 2CK can be taken in Ireland - they cost about $750 each. Step 2CS must be taken in the US.

mardybumbum

lonestargirl wrote: »

Historically you were on your own to study for USMLEs, as far as I know RCSI are to introduce some USMLE orientated classes in the near future - they have a lot of North American students so there have always been informal study groups there. Step 1 + Step 2CK can be taken in Ireland - they cost about $750 each. Step 2CS must be taken in the US.

Most students would take the USMLE after 3rd year as that is when you will have finished your pathology, microbiology and pharmacology. You will also be questioned on biochemistry, physiology, anatomy and social sciences.
As far as I am aware, TCD is organising a test prep for step 1, although I have heard no more about it since June.
You can sit step 1 at the prometric centre in Dublin.
My advice would be to run into H&F and get your mitts on one of these.

Sitric

I think you have to be finished with path, micro and pharm before you are allowed sit the test, friend of mine wanted to take it early and application was rejected.

The Goljan audio lectures are excellent for pathology.

Brods

Why in god's name would anyone do a test that is 70% pathophysiology before they've even started the subject?!

If you fail you can resit, still logged in your NRMP application for residencies in the US that you failed. Worse though, if you do badly it'll preclude you from almost any reasonable jobs in The States.

A good few people do them in TCD anyway (or talk about doing them) ... I'm considering it so know a small bit about the process but ask a Canadian in your class about it and they'll have all the answers. You gotta get forms stamped and signed by college and apply for a testing window (3 month period) at least 6 months in advance...

As much as our exams beat the sh*t out of ya, apparently Step 1 is a massive undertaking and committment (especially as our course isn't geared towards the Exam and we aren't given any time off to study for it like they would be in America) so give it proper thought... Still totally doable though and with our school leaving exams geared so towards rote memorisation I imagine Irish people tend to do well enough in the exam.

Oh, and there's a talk organised by Kaplan every year about the USMLE. You'll get an email from the Med School if you're in TCD (or elsewhere I imagine) but it's advertised on the Kaplan website AFAIR.

OhOh and I'd go on forums.studentdoctor.net for info re: The US/Residencies/USMLEs etc ...

Echani

A Neurotic wrote: »

So having read many of the discussions on work conditions and treatment of Interns and NCHDs in Ireland on the Health Sciences forum, I'm prompted to think about my future after medical school. I'm going into second year this September, all going to plan.

Just wondering what the procedure for taking USMLEs is in Ireland? Is step 1 taken after 2nd year here like in the US? Would I have to be entirely independent in registering and taking the exams, or will some of it be done through my college? Do they require a lot of work beyond my coursework? Do many non-American students take them?

Any other general info would be appreciated. Thanks.

Step 1: as others have said, you take it after you've completed your pathology, micro etc. Depending on your course that might be after 2nd or 3rd year.

Step 2 CK: generally taken in your final summer before graduation, as it encompasses clinical med, surgery, paeds, ob/gyn, psych, etc.

Step 2 CS: when you take this depends on when you want to apply to the US, if ever. If you plan to go straight after graduating, most people would do it in the same summer as their CK. It has to be taken in one of 5 centres in the US - Chicago, Philadelphia, Atlanta, LA or Houston - book early to make sure you get the date and centre you want.

I'm an Irish student in a 4 year course and I've done all the above so far. It requires a lot of work outside your coursework. For step 1, I used some American board review texts throughout my 2nd year to help study for my coursework, then after exams studied for most of the day almost every day for 6 weeks (which is a relatively short amount of time, some spend all summer at it).

For CK, I took it 2 weeks after my 3rd year exams while all the paeds/obs/gyn/psych was fresh. I used the US Blueprints books to study for those during the year, then did USMLEworld questions and used First Aid for 2 weeks while polishing off my notes. Again that's a really short period of time to do the exam in - most of my US classmates had it hanging over them all summer.

I did my CS at the end of an elective in the US; doesn't require as much study as the above, but it does require a lot of practice to get used to the format and the time restrictions.

Some colleges support their students better for the USMLE. RCSI have introduced a mandatory Kaplan diagnostic exam if you want to sit it, and you need to get a minimum score before they'll sign off on your application. I personally think that's a terrible idea as it delays your application at a time when people should be focusing on their coursework rather than USMLE study, but at least they're thinking about it. Once you've done that, they provide your access to the Kaplan QBANK for Step 1 for a month. They also provide some revision lectures focused on the exam during the months beforehand, and the students have set up a peer-led teaching program which also has some USMLE-focused tutorials.

Echani

Also, in terms of the timeline of your application - you should be trying to apply about 6 months before you intend to sit the exam. This takes a while because your college have to sign off on the application, but you want plenty of time so you can get a date that's suitable for you. You pick a 3-month eligibility window, and within that you can shift your date around for free up to a certain cut-off - you'll have to pay if you change it within 7-14 days of the exam or something. There's only one centre in Ireland, so be sure to register early. I nearly had to go to London to do my Step 2 CK, but found a cancellation by luck in Dublin just before I booked my flights

lonestargirl

Also, in terms of the timeline, if you are applying for 'the match' for residency you really need to have all USMLEs completed and be ECFMG certified by the time you are applying (Sept before a July start).

bythewoods

Do you have to sit these within med school?

Despite not wanting to stick it out in Ireland, I never bothered looking into doing them or anything. Only going into 2nd med as well like, so it's not like I've missed out or anything, I always just thought, for some reason, they were done after college.

lonestargirl

You can do the USMLEs whenevr you want. It may be a good idea to do step 1 when still in medical school as it's stuff you will have covered recently - it would be painful to go back to biochem 4-5 years out of college. Also, if you want to do residency in the US you will start as an intern regardless of your previous qualifications so if you want to go to the US for good it makes sense to leave straight out of medical school.

isahau

I am an Irish med student and I am hoping to do residency in the US. If I were to go without doing an an intern year in Ireland, after completing residency in America would I have to do an Irish internship in order to be eligible to practice in Ireland? Or is there a loop hole once you've been the American system? Just wondering if anyone knows...

Echani

I am an Irish med student and I am hoping to do residency in the US. If I were to go without doing an an intern year in Ireland, after completing residency in America would I have to do an Irish internship in order to be eligible to practice in Ireland? Or is there a loop hole once you've been the American system? Just wondering if anyone knows...

It's difficult to get a straight answer out of the Irish Medical Council about it, but for an internship completed abroad to be recognized it needs to be 12 months long, and include at least 3 months of medicine and 3 months of surgery. As internship in the US generally is either medical or surgical, it won't fit into that category unless you fulfil the requirement through a transitional year or something.

Internships that don't fulfil those criteria are currently being approved on an individual, retrospective basis, so there's no guarantees that you'll be approved on that basis. The general advice for those of us graduating in 2011 is, even if you've got good US prospects, and even if internship here seems like a training wasteland, still to do internship in Ireland.

lonestargirl

If you are in a position in your personal circumstances where you could save a lot of your intern income then that may also be something to consider. We were used to living on my income so my husband saved almost all his intern income (+ it's 12 months work but spread over 2 tax years so you get a rebate when you leave the country).

The main costs are:

1) The Interview Process
Nov-Jan prior to the July you are going to start. Interviews are held in the US and costs can add up quickly.

2) Moving Over
You will have no credit therefore you will need 2-3 months deposit for accommodation, deposits for utilities and you will probably have to buy a car for cash.

Dr Nic

Just want to bump this...
Thinking about sitting USMLE soon. Next year is final med for me. I dont want to work in the states but neither do i want to slave here for 10+ years...

One of my classmates got 99th percentile usmle and apparently he can get anything he wants in the US now...

How do you know what is best to apply for? Is there like a CAO board from previous years so you can see what score was accpeted where?

Thanks!

lonestargirl

Dr Nic wrote: »

One of my classmates got 99th percentile usmle and apparently he can get anything he wants in the US now...

Not quite..

Dr Nic wrote: »

do you know what is best to apply for? Is there like a CAO board from previous years so you can see what score was accpeted where?

No, it doesn't work like that. You apply a bunch of places and they interview the candidates they like. ONE factor in determining who they will interview is your USMLE score. Both the program and the candidate then rank all the candidates/places they interview in order of preference and then the magic match computer spits out the place you get (which is legally binding). A good score will help get good place for interview but your grades, your LORs and the interview itself are very important also.