Bizarre/Illegal things on motorways

veryangryman

mfitzy wrote: »

Not really bizarre or anything but what the fcuk is it with the N7 between Naas and Newlands Cross. Really starting to hate this road, nobody has a clue how to use it. All hogging the middle overtaking lane constantly with the result traffic does not move as freely as it should at all.

Easy to explain..

1. Left lane can be dominated by people turning left.
2. Centre lane allows tourists and other unfamiliar with the road/lane structure to only need 1 movement if they are in the wrong lane.


The practice is done on most 3 lane highways in the UK. Cars entering/leaving the motorway, or just going at a slow speed use the left lane. Lane beside it used for regular traffic not using this junction.

I guess thats the logic. You must appreciate that with the huge numbers using the road, there is always going to be some that are unfamiliar. Have patience - the road will eventually be upgraded.

By the way (and im being pedantic here), Newlands aint no Motorway.

murphaph

veryangryman wrote: »

Have patience - the road will eventually be upgraded.

It already WAS upgraded but the extra capacity installed between Newlands and Naas (at huge cost to us taxpayers) has effectively been wasted as lane 1 remains mostly empty most of the time. We spent all that money for longer slip roads!

There should be a proper campaign to get people to drive on the left. The junction distances on the N7 are not like the Coventry Ring Road or M8 through Glasgow with junctions every few hundred feet.

veryangryman

veryangryman wrote: »

Easy to explain..

1. Left lane can be dominated by people turning left.
2. Centre lane allows tourists and other unfamiliar with the road/lane structure to only need 1 movement if they are in the wrong lane.


The practice is done on most 3 lane highways in the UK. Cars entering/leaving the motorway, or just going at a slow speed use the left lane. Lane beside it used for regular traffic not using this junction.

I guess thats the logic. You must appreciate that with the huge numbers using the road, there is always going to be some that are unfamiliar. Have patience - the road will eventually be upgraded.

By the way (and im being pedantic here), Newlands aint no Motorway.

I learned to drive in the UK and that is completely wrong, the left lane is the driving lane as written in the highway code. The middle-lane hogs were rooted out years ago, anyone who sits in the second lane is likely to be "pulled by the fuzz".

Lane discipline in this country is dreadful, the second lane cruising is an American concept for multi lane motorways with frequent junctions.

The exception being part of the M25 where it is two lanes under the bridges at junctions and three lanes elsewhere (like the M50 aux lane now), this may have been since upgraded as it was 20 years ago since I last used that particular section of road.

veryangryman

DolanBaker, that is all good and well... The problem is that the leftmost lane invariably (M50/N7/N4 near Dublin a good Example) can lead to the junction itself. And this in junctions a good few KM apart. Keeping left in these cases is borderline suicide as you end up weaving so much to dodge the exit when your going long distance.

veryangryman

veryangryman wrote: »

DolanBaker, that is all good and well... The problem is that the leftmost lane invariably (M50/N7/N4 near Dublin a good Example) can lead to the junction itself. And this in junctions a good few KM apart. Keeping left in these cases is borderline suicide as you end up weaving so much to dodge the exit when your going long distance.

Not at all, just go the same speed as the rest of the traffic watch out for weavers (who usually have to cross TWO lanes), sitting in the middle lane causes congestion!

L1011

ardmacha wrote: »

This statement is trite and misleading.

Go try a driving test and treat the limit as anything other than a target and you'll be failed for failing to make progress.

Effectively the limit IS a target on roads where the limits are applied properly. Of course, in non-urban Ireland, they rarely if ever are.

NITransport

People failing to drive the speed limit when possible are just a big a cause of rta's than those driving above the speed limit. It infuriates me the many people that drive 40-50 on the A5/A6 when conditions are good. This leads to increased frustration in drivers stuck in the queue behind and leads to some more immature drivers taking silly risks in order to pass the idiot at the front!

anyone who sits in the second lane is likely to be "pulled by the fuzz".

I like to think that sitting in the left hand lane masks the speed that you may be travelling at...

Thoie

veryangryman wrote: »

DolanBaker, that is all good and well... The problem is that the leftmost lane invariably (M50/N7/N4 near Dublin a good Example) can lead to the junction itself. And this in junctions a good few KM apart. Keeping left in these cases is borderline suicide as you end up weaving so much to dodge the exit when your going long distance.

Southbound on the M50 I can think of only one place where the left most lane can surprise you by becoming the slip road to the junction itself (J13). In all other cases there are slip lanes on the left where appropriate, which are separated by different markings.

If you picture the right of your screen as the direction of travel it looks a bit like

slip
- - - - - - - - -
left (driving lane)
- - - - - - -
middle (overtaking)
- - - - - - -
right (overtaking)


Motorways in Ireland are always exited from the left, so you've nothing to lose by staying left. If you accidentally slip off the motorway, the majority of junctions will allow you to slip back on again after a minor pause.

veryangryman

MYOB wrote: »

Go try a driving test and treat the limit as anything other than a target and you'll be failed for failing to make progress.

Effectively the limit IS a target on roads where the limits are applied properly. Of course, in non-urban Ireland, they rarely if ever are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

Some testers are very anal if you are exceeding the limit by even 1K. No harm in going 40kph in a 50kph area (which usually is too busy for you to go any faster anyway)

marmurr1916

Deleted User wrote: »

I learned to drive in the UK and that is completely wrong, the left lane is the driving lane as written in the highway code. The middle-lane hogs were rooted out years ago, anyone who sits in the second lane is likely to be "pulled by the fuzz".

Not in my experience of driving in the UK. In fact, it's a constant complaint on Sabre. As for the police 'pulling' people for hogging the middle lane - I've never seen it happen.

In densely populated parts of the UK, practically every stretch of motorway will have a huge amount of heavy trucks, coaches etc moving at about 50-60mph in the left lane during busy parts of the day.

If you're on a busy section of motorway, and you're in the middle lane doing 70mph, then you're going to be moving faster than traffic (mainly HGV trucks) in the left lane.

That means you're effectively overtaking them. It's perfectly legal for you to drive in the middle lane as long as you're overtaking slower moving traffic in the left lane.

You do get some stretches (eg the southern section of the M74 in Scotland) where it's quiet enough and there isn't a constant stream of slow-moving traffic in the left lane, but that's not typical of those sections of the UK's motorway networks that pass through densely populated areas.

Take a look at this section of the M6 north of Birmingham: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Birmingham&hl=en&ll=52.564342,-1.993793&spn=0.001777,0.005284&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=14.066575,43.286133&t=h&z=18

The left lane is full of artics, vans etc. The only safe way to overtake a line of trucks like that is to stay in the middle lane. At busy times of the day, you will get 20 mile stretches of motorway where the left lane is full of trucks.

kiwipower

If I remember correctly from 10years ago:
In Queensland Australia between Brisbane and the Gold Coast they have 3-4 lanes for travelling the slip roads for on and off the motorway are kept seperate from the travelling lanes by a solid white line. The slip lane being continuous from the entrance lane to the next exit lane. (Similar to the junction on the North bound M50 coming upto the M7 exit.) Makes getting on and off the motorway easier, allows nervous/slow drivers to feel more confortable on the far left travelling lane.
One of the main problems with Irish Motorways is the lack of following distance between vehicles, making it difficult to impossible to merge lanes. Especially at busy junctions/slipways. For example the M7/N18/M20 Junction in Limerick. It doesnt matter which of the 3slip roads you join the begining of the M20 from (ie coming from Galway, Limerick or Dublin) getting onto the M20 is a disaster especially if you then want to take the next exit for Dooradoyle! (I think its exit 1)

marmurr1916

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Not in my experience of driving in the UK. In fact, it's a constant complaint on Sabre. As for the police 'pulling' people for hogging the middle lane - I've never seen it happen.

In densely populated parts of the UK, practically every stretch of motorway will have a huge amount of heavy trucks, coaches etc moving at about 50-60mph in the left lane during busy parts of the day.

If you're on a busy section of motorway, and you're in the middle lane doing 70mph, then you're going to be moving faster than traffic (mainly HGV trucks) in the left lane.

That means you're effectively overtaking them. It's perfectly legal for you to drive in the middle lane as long as you're overtaking slower moving traffic in the left lane.

You do get some stretches (eg the southern section of the M74 in Scotland) where it's quiet enough and there isn't a constant stream of slow-moving traffic in the left lane, but that's not typical of those sections of the UK's motorway networks that pass through densely populated areas.

Take a look at this section of the M6 north of Birmingham: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Birmingham&hl=en&ll=52.564342,-1.993793&spn=0.001777,0.005284&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=14.066575,43.286133&t=h&z=18

The left lane is full of artics, vans etc. The only safe way to overtake a line of trucks like that is to stay in the middle lane. At busy times of the day, you will get 20 mile stretches of motorway where the left lane is full of trucks.

Yes, when the left lane is full as it usually is in the UK you can use the middle lane instead as a main driving lane, it's the use of the middle lane when the left lane is empty that's the problem!

etchyed

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Not in my experience of driving in the UK. In fact, it's a constant complaint on Sabre. As for the police 'pulling' people for hogging the middle lane - I've never seen it happen.

In densely populated parts of the UK, practically every stretch of motorway will have a huge amount of heavy trucks, coaches etc moving at about 50-60mph in the left lane during busy parts of the day.

If you're on a busy section of motorway, and you're in the middle lane doing 70mph, then you're going to be moving faster than traffic (mainly HGV trucks) in the left lane.

That means you're effectively overtaking them. It's perfectly legal for you to drive in the middle lane as long as you're overtaking slower moving traffic in the left lane.

You do get some stretches (eg the southern section of the M74 in Scotland) where it's quiet enough and there isn't a constant stream of slow-moving traffic in the left lane, but that's not typical of those sections of the UK's motorway networks that pass through densely populated areas.

Take a look at this section of the M6 north of Birmingham: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Birmingham&hl=en&ll=52.564342,-1.993793&spn=0.001777,0.005284&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=14.066575,43.286133&t=h&z=18

The left lane is full of artics, vans etc. The only safe way to overtake a line of trucks like that is to stay in the middle lane. At busy times of the day, you will get 20 mile stretches of motorway where the left lane is full of trucks.

Of course what you've described is absolutely fine. You seem to have entirely missed the point about what middle lane hogging is.

marmurr1916

etchyed wrote: »

Of course what you've described is absolutely fine. You seem to have entirely missed the point about what middle lane hogging is.

I know what middle lane hogging is. I have pointed out that what some people perceive as middle lane hogging is not necessarily the case.

Just because somebody drives in the middle lane of a motorway for an extended period doesn't mean they're hogging the middle lane, although some people complain that it is.

This is despite the fact that, on a busy section of motorway, it is safer for a driver to stay in the middle lane than to weave in and out of the left lane to overtake slow moving traffic.

Where there are quiet stretches of motorway, staying in the middle lane is not necessary, a point I made above.

However, it is increasingly rare to find such stretches of motorway in densely populated parts of the UK, unless you do most of your driving at 3am.

marmurr1916

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, when the left lane is full as it usually is in the UK you can use the middle lane instead as a main driving lane, it's the use of the middle lane when the left lane is empty that's the problem!

A problem which is rarely encountered in Ireland outside of Co. Dublin, since there aren't that many sections of D3 roads in other counties.

Any time I've ever used the D3 routes in or near Dublin, the left lane has been full of slow moving traffic, making middle lane driving the safest and most sensible option.

Unless you to spend your time weaving in and out of the left lane...

You also made the point that middle lane hogging seems not to be a problem in the UK. That's not true. Take a trip through Cumbria on a quiet stretch of the M6 sometime and you'll encounter plenty of idiots doing just that - the cops in the UK don't take action against it, not in my experience anyway.

L1011

veryangryman wrote: »

Some testers are very anal if you are exceeding the limit by even 1K. No harm in going 40kph in a 50kph area (which usually is too busy for you to go any faster anyway)

Calling someone wrong when you are in fact the one that's wrong isn't a good idea

40k in a clear 50k zone is failure to make progress and will fail you if kept up.

niloc1951

MYOB wrote: »

Thinking this is true will fail you your driving test.

The last time I did a driving test (HGV 4 years ago) it didn't fail me and in over forty years of driving I've never received negative comment about such thinking, until now :eek::eek::eek:

niloc1951

MYOB wrote: »

Calling someone wrong when you are in fact the one that's wrong isn't a good idea

40k in a clear 50k zone is failure to make progress and will fail you if kept up.

There are many many stretches signed 50KmPH which are quite unsafe at that speed,think schools, churches, multiple junctions, road width. Compared to for example France we are sadly lacking 30KmPH signed areas.

L1011

niloc1951 wrote: »

There are many many stretches signed 50KmPH which are quite unsafe at that speed,think schools, churches, multiple junctions, road width. Compared to for example France we are sadly lacking 30KmPH signed areas.

Read the word "clear" in my post.

Also, most schools have timed 30km/h zones when deemed needed.

niloc1951

MYOB wrote: »

Read the word "clear" in my post.

Also, most schools have timed 30km/h zones when deemed needed.

Perhaps you might read page 50 of This RSA Document and see the phrase "Be aware that speed limits are an upper limit only and not a target speed.
On reflection, why not read the whole document.

zuroph

niloc, fair enough, but can you define "failure to progress" as in the test then please?

Cookie_Monster

zuroph wrote: »

niloc, fair enough, but can you define "failure to progress" as in the test then please?

whatever the instructor feels like it should be...
far too subjective IMO

L1011

niloc1951 wrote: »

Perhaps you might read page 50 of This RSA Document and see the phrase "Be aware that speed limits are an upper limit only and not a target speed.
On reflection, why not read the whole document.

Why would I read a training document for unqualified drivers when I have a full Irish licence and have passed the UK ADI test?

I suspect you'll find reference to maintaining progress in it, though. As well as "impeding", which is another reason you will fail your test for going significantly below the limit on a clear road. This is also one you'll find the road traffic acts - the actual law on this issue.

"the limit is not a target" is just yet another completely useless buzz phrase, wrong in its entirety.

Amtmann

Driving south to Corkonia this morning on the M8 I spied a cyclist between junctions 17 and 18 southbound. He was in no hurry at all, and looked rather like a hippy. I beeped at him as I drove by and phoned him in to Traffic Watch, for all the good I'm sure it did.

-Corkie-

Tremelo wrote: »

Driving south to Corkonia this morning on the M8 I spied a cyclist between junctions 17 and 18 southbound. He was in no hurry at all, and looked rather like a hippy. I beeped at him as I drove by and phoned him in to Traffic Watch, for all the good I'm sure it did.

:D

I have seen this guy too. That stretch of the M8 must be the busiest cycle lane in the world..

Ringing that 1890 number is a waste of phone credit I think.

niloc1951

MYOB wrote: »

Why would I read a training document for unqualified drivers when I have a full Irish licence and have passed the UK ADI test?

To answer your question
Because it's not 'a training document for unqualified drivers', it's a syllabus for ADI's and other stakeholders involved in driver training.

DWCommuter

From the news tonight;

Elsewhere, gardaí are investigating the death of a woman after what is being described as a tragic accident on the Dublin to Galway Road this afternoon.
It is understood the woman who died drove down an exit ramp from the westbound carriageway near Moate in Co Westmeath.
She proceeded to drive in an eastern direction meeting traffic travelling in the opposite direction.
A garda traffic car, which was on a motorway at the time, passed the vehicle and tried to warn traffic travelling in the opposite direction.
The gardaí then made an unsuccessful attempt to stop the vehicle. The motorist slowed down, but then continued to drive on in an eastern direction on the westbound carriageway of the M6.
Moments later the car was involved in a head-on collision with another car.
The driver of the car which was travelling in the wrong direction died.
The driver of the other car - a woman in her 30s - is in a critical condition hospital in Tullamore General Hospital.

Accident on the M6.

zuroph

poor woman in the other car. fingers crossed for her.

AugustusMinimus

Tremelo wrote: »

Driving south to Corkonia this morning on the M8 I spied a cyclist between junctions 17 and 18 southbound. He was in no hurry at all, and looked rather like a hippy. I beeped at him as I drove by and phoned him in to Traffic Watch, for all the good I'm sure it did.

As I've said before, there is constantly cyclists on this stretch of motorway. Hardly ever see a tractor on it.

L1011

niloc1951 wrote: »

To answer your question
Because it's not 'a training document for unqualified drivers', it's a syllabus for ADI's and other stakeholders involved in driver training.

None of which I am ever going to be (ADI means something very different in the UK).