What to do - tenant leaving, room manky

HardyEustace

Just wondering what people do in the following situation:

If a tenant leaves a place but the room and kitchen presses that they used haven't been cleaned properly.

When they moved in, you could eat your dinner off the floor but they have left it in a horrible state. The first thing I saw was a toenail clipping on the en-suite floor (vom), there's black mould all around the plug hole that bleach hasn't removed. There must have been an inch of dust on the skirting boards. The fridge shelf they were using is dirty.

I'm currently spending my very sparse time scrubbing the house after them and feeling completely resentful. However, what's the solution?

I was glad to see the back of them and just gave back the deposit minus the bills (though I've since found out they broke a lamp shade and just propped it up and never told me). Mind you, now I'm just sorry that I didn't charge them forty euro for cleaning or something.

I can't believe how disgustingly they left the room, this is somewhat of a rant as well - sorry. But I am interested in hearing how people cope with the situation.

And when someone's as sloopy and messy as that, even though it's driving me nuts, I prefer to clean myself as I'd hate for my next tenant to move somewhere that's dirty. To be honest, I'd be absolutely morto if that happened.

The_Morrigan

HardyEustace wrote: »

Just wondering what people do in the following situation:

If a tenant leaves a place but the room and kitchen presses that they used haven't been cleaned properly.

When they moved in, you could eat your dinner off the floor but they have left it in a horrible state. The first thing I saw was a toenail clipping on the en-suite floor (vom), there's black mould all around the plug hole that bleach hasn't removed. There must have been an inch of dust on the skirting boards. The fridge shelf they were using is dirty.

I'm currently spending my very sparse time scrubbing the house after them and feeling completely resentful. However, what's the solution?

I was glad to see the back of them and just gave back the deposit minus the bills (though I've since found out they broke a lamp shade and just propped it up and never told me). Mind you, now I'm just sorry that I didn't charge them forty euro for cleaning or something.

I can't believe how disgustingly they left the room, this is somewhat of a rant as well - sorry. But I am interested in hearing how people cope with the situation.

And when someone's as sloopy and messy as that, even though it's driving me nuts, I prefer to clean myself as I'd hate for my next tenant to move somewhere that's dirty. To be honest, I'd be absolutely morto if that happened.

I feel your pain - I was renting out my spare room to a grown woman (mid 30's & older than me btw).
I also was delighted to see the back of her - I was aware of some habits I didn't like...like spilling makeup all over my pristine white bathroom, using a brillo pad to clean scrape the living hell out of my new hob (that only happened once - she never cleaned after that fiasco)
But when she left I found the duvet & pillows were stained from fake tan seeping through, the blinds had makeup and tan stains on them, the white walls, doors, wardrobes had hand prints again from her bloody obsession with fake tan - I was disgusted. Also noticed that she chipped tiles in the bathroom with her heels and broke the flusher on the toilet....
But to get her out the door I handed her deposit over minus bills and set about scrubbing my apt clean again. I've had to re-paint the apt though couldn't get the streaks and hand prints off the walls :mad:

HardyEustace

I suppose what I'm struggling with is the fact that you can hardly hand them a hoover, mop and bucket and tell them to start cleaning before they get their deposit.

I know that there are plenty of people that leave the house cleaner than when they came. However, while a little rant is good, it's not something I want to put up with again. I'm just wondering how other people dealt with it.

And I hope this doesn't seem like a spoilt post. This forum offers loads of good advice and I do appreciate it. The dust can be hoovered away. It's more stuff like the mould around the sink hole that I don't know if I'll ever shift that looks manky and things like that that are bothering me.

Just really wondering what else people have done.

The_Morrigan

General cleaning isn't an issue...as you said its anything over and above that, like the mould. I guess its just a hazard that comes from being a landlord or owner occupier.

the_syco

HardyEustace wrote: »

there's black mould all around the plug hole that bleach hasn't removed

Sounds like it's time to see if Cillet-Bang actually works?

Dacelonid

HardyEustace wrote: »

I suppose what I'm struggling with is the fact that you can hardly hand them a hoover, mop and bucket and tell them to start cleaning before they get their deposit.

Why not, any time I have rented a house or apartment, part of the agreement was that the place had to be clean when I moved out and any cleaning costs would come out of my deposit.

dory

This has happened to me a few times. One family left all their broken childrens toys all over the garden and inside the house looked like it had been broken into and ransacked. That was a few years ago and the house has never been the same since.

It's a horrible feeling but now I just factor hiring a cleaner for a day after they move out into the rent. You can also mention to them before they move out that that kind of thing would be mentioned in any reference they were looking for in the future.

HardyEustace

Dacelonid wrote: »

Why not, any time I have rented a house or apartment, part of the agreement was that the place had to be clean when I moved out and any cleaning costs would come out of my deposit.

Well, I think that I'd feel that they'd do a terrible job.

I should really have tackled it straight on but didn't know how to go about it. I've just started renting out to people so am still learning the ropes. Next time I won't be so timid about the whole thing.

I guess I'm just wondering what other people did so I can see the best approach.

silja

HardyEustace wrote: »

I suppose what I'm struggling with is the fact that you can hardly hand them a hoover, mop and bucket and tell them to start cleaning before they get their deposit.

Well, you can certainly withhold deposit if the place has damage (not the usual hoover, as you say). What I did is that I met the tenant at our flat when they left. I saw the place was clean, and they handed me both sets of keys, so they got their deposit cheque right there and then, and everyone is happy. I wouldn't give back a deposit unless I had inspected the place.

HardyEustace

silja wrote: »

Well, you can certainly withhold deposit if the place has damage (not the usual hoover, as you say). What I did is that I met the tenant at our flat when they left. I saw the place was clean, and they handed me both sets of keys, so they got their deposit cheque right there and then, and everyone is happy. I wouldn't give back a deposit unless I had inspected the place.

I had inspected the room, it was only afterwards that I realised how utterly manky it was. I was so busy checking the big stuff - floors, doors, en-suite bathroom, electric shower that I didn't notice the broken lampshade.

I could see the place was filthy. It was only afterwards I just thought "Jesus, you're some bloody mug to be cleaning up after this manky b*stard". I know you can't turn back the clock but I'm just thinking what I'd do differently if the situation arose again.

I didn't notice the plug hole until later on. And to be honest, it wasn't until I had soaked it in bleach for a few hours and nothing budged that I thought "uh-oh".

I'd had to have a few words with them when they were a tenant about keeping the place clean so at this stage I think i was a bit weary of the whole situation. Which I'll fully hold my hand up and say I wasn't as on the ball as I should have been but at the same time - what would you do in the future?

I wouldn't be happy for this person to have cleaned as I know they wouldn't have done it properly and probably would've knocked the ****e out of the walls and skirtings while hoovering etc..

Equally I am out of pocket now due to the cost of getting the room back to the standard it was previously.

The last tenant that left also didn't clean properly either, and due to covering up the vent left mould on the walls. Once again, I scrubbed the place clean. Obviously, I want to change this situation if it arises again.

Kimia

I understand your frustration and it must be awful to have to clean up after a manky tenant like your description! However as someone else said, that comes with being a landlord. It's illegal to withhold money from the deposit for cleaning but out of common courtesy they should leave the place spotless. If they don't, there's not much you can do.

You should always give it a going over anyway once an old tenant moves before the new one moves in - that's part of your landlord reponsibility because who's going to rent from you if the room is manky? It's ultimately on your shoulders.

HardyEustace

Kimia wrote: »

I understand your frustration and it must be awful to have to clean up after a manky tenant like your description! However as someone else said, that comes with being a landlord. It's illegal to withhold money from the deposit for cleaning but out of common courtesy they should leave the place spotless. If they don't, there's not much you can do.

You should always give it a going over anyway once an old tenant moves before the new one moves in - that's part of your landlord reponsibility because who's going to rent from you if the room is manky? It's ultimately on your shoulders.

Thanks K,
I do always give the room a once over and am very happy to absorb the cost of say, giving the room a quick paint so that it's sparkling for the next tenant.

However, the deposit is given on the understanding that the tenant will leave the room as they found it minus normal wear and tear. It seems like the only way to get around the mould problem is to remove the seal, remove the mould and reseal the plug. This is all extra expense.

Out of the two tenants I've had move out, this has happened each time. I'm just interested to know how other people deal with it. As I really, really don't want to have be in this situation again.

00112984

Sadly, I think it just boils down to the fact that 90% of people have zero respect for something that's not their own.

It absolutely sucks but all you can do is learn to guage future tenants and maybe have a thorough inspection a week before they leave to point out things you feel should be corrected before the deposit is returned. In this case, the broken lamp would be above standard wear and tear.

To try and remove the mould, get a small grout-cleaning brush from a hardware shop and scrub with a paste made of baking soda with a little bleach. Might take off a little bit of paint but it'll be localised.

Carolanne..

try a pumice stone it works great with removing it all, and wont scratch it as prcelain is a weaker substance
Can I just ask while I am here , I am renting a place from my landlord and have just given my notice after 6 months- we got on fine and everything is been sorted out , but he just got windows in after i moved in to update hes BER rating or some thing, but he never painted it again and theres plaster there that is is not covered. i asked him if he was going to paint over it and he said he didnt have time and i said i would but never got around to it and now hes claiming that its me that has to do it before I move out, all he did was show me a bucket of paint that he had used before and he possibly bought a new paint brush, I dont think its my obligation to do any thin like painting before i move out , the walls arent dirty apart from normal wear and tear and I will leave the place in great condition
plus what can I do if he tries to keep deposit from me?

OS119

it does suck, but its just part of being a landlord.

the 'solution' is two pronged - have a series of photos for the tenant to reference so they can be 'reminded' of what condition the property was in when they moved in. this sounds daft, but i've found it gives a clearer view of what i expect and it genuinely makes it easier for the tenant to comply. have a structured list as well - mine is in the shape of a 'how to move out and get all your deposit back story'.

have a meeting/inspection two weeks before they move out - this allows you to identify issues, sort out the practicalities of handover, and (subtley) re-inforce your expectations. by and large tenants want their deposit back, they would far rather have the opportunity to adress a problem than just get 'fined' for it on the day of handover.

other than that i just factor in a two day contractor clean (shampoo carpets and upholstery, sugar soap/flash all sufaces and paintwork, deep clean of kitchen and bathrooms), 3 days of DIY decorating and a trip to the tip into each lease - usually it requires nothing like that - but i err on the side of caution and most of the time am pleasantly surprised.

Treehouse72

Properly cleaning a rental property between lettings is an age-old and utterly standard practice for landlords. It has ever been thus, so I am non-plussed that this seems to come as such an unpleasant surprise to some landlords here. Cleaning is a standard downside to being a landlord - an occupational hazard - and moaning about it is a bit like a swimmer complaining about getting wet.

I am also rather dismayed that people would rent out a property that has not been professionally cleaned. Aren't you concerned about health and safety and with the long term maintenance benefit of a proper clean once a year? If it was my property I'd want it nigh-on disinfected from floor to ceiling between tenants. I'm surprised more of you landlords don't, especially considering how cheap such services are nowadays.

Also, some landlords seem to view tenants as glorified house-minders for the landlord's property. This is an overly sensitive and amateurish attitude to a business arrangement. To remind you landlords, while someone is renting your property it is de facto no longer fully your property (this is true in law and in practice). So to expect tenants to keep it as you would is not part of your agreement. They have a right to live as they please, as long as they don't break things or cause harm beyond normal wear and tear. Since those are flexible concepts, professional landlords need to be flexible.

Finally, there are certain premiums to renting. Among them, that you don't have to keep the place as pristine as if you owned it, and that acceptable "wear and tear" is part of the terms of the lease and so is built in to one's contract with the landlord. If renting out a property brings benefits to the landlord, should not the landlord expect that the arrangement also brings benefits to the tenant? Or do you expect it to be a one way street, all win-win for the landlord? Don't work like that I'm afraid.

HardyEustace

If you're an owner occupier, then it's a slightly different scenario. The house is kept to an extremely high standard.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone to leave a room as they moved into it.

I do think the idea of having a "pre-inspection" is a very good one. Also outlining what you expect to be done in order to happy with how the room is left.

@Treehouse72, I do agree that it's standard to have to do a "deep clean" the room in between tenants. As I mentioned before I've no problem absorbing the cost of re-painting the room (even though it was only painted a year ago), I've steam cleaned the en-suite from ceiling to floor and will literally be scrubbing floors to ensure that the room is immaculate before someone else moves in.

I do however have a problem with someone assuming that I'm their maid and will happily spend their evenings cleaning their pubes from the shower and their toenails from the bathroom floor.

legra

You should state in the lease that the property must be cleaned by professional cleaners before deposit will be returned. I rented a house recently and this was the case, when we moved out I didnt get prof cleaners as we couldnt afford it, but I cleaned and cleaned the house, we left the house sparkling and the landlord was very happy with it and we got the full deposit back.
When we moved into current house, it was filthy, rubbish still in the bin, floors not washed, dust everywhere and I spent days cleaning it. I was too shy/foolish to complain to the letting agent but, I when we move out shortly, we will not be leaving it immaculate, I will do a basic clean but that will be it!

Distorted

I own and manage 3 properties and every time tenants move out, I clean it throughly. I don't use contract cleaners and prefer to do it myself because I know where the dirt lurks that they miss. And I have to say I have never yet had a tenant who is clean to the standard that I am myself in my home - and I'm not manic about cleaning all the time, I just like it tidy.

OP - your tenant does sound discourteous in not cleaning the property before she left but she's by no means the worst. Unfortunatley when properties don't get cleaned at all during the lease, things tend to get damaged. I had to throw out 3 valuable rugs this summer after one lot moved out.

Other things I've had to cope with due to dirty tenants-

- communal hallway covered in empty beer bottles and broken glass after tenants dismantled the lock because they lost their keys (and didn't tell me).
- wallpaper set fire to
- carpets have to be changed every 3 years or so due to stains
- skirting boards so dusty its easier to wash and repaint them to make them look presentable
- ditto repainting of doors and most walls every year
- loads of their belongings that they no longer want left behind - like broken picture frames, boxes, clothes, etc..

I do holiday lets in the summer months and then students. And guess what? The students never cause so much damage as some of the holiday lets.

Plus be wary of the seemingly perfect female tenant - I've actually evicted two of them (and I've never evicted any other tenants in my life). One because she was just absolutely filthy and the room was becoming damaged (although I couldn't see the floor by that point) and the other because she constantly broke things and demanded rudely that they be instantly fixed.

One thing I've noticed is that tenants are worse than 10 years ago. Probably because you now get more spoilt brats with helicopter parents that do everything for them.

monkeypants

Hire a cleaner and take the cost out of the deposit before returning it. Be up front about it as well and they'll leave the place cleaner in the first place.

Kimia

monkeypants wrote: »

Hire a cleaner and take the cost out of the deposit before returning it. Be up front about it as well and they'll leave the place cleaner in the first place.

Monkeypants, seriously, this has been covered time and time again. Cleaning costs cannot be taken out of the deposit.

HardyEustace

Kimia wrote: »

Monkeypants, seriously, this has been covered time and time again. Cleaning costs cannot be taken out of the deposit.

In that case, what recourse do you have? Does that mean that tenants can leave the place absolutely manky with no consequences? That doesn't seem right?

@Distorted - the tenant in this case was male. The previous one was female.

@monkeypants - I think in future that I'll tell any tenant moving out that I'll do a pre-inspection if they like about a week beforehand but that I will be prepared to take money from the deposit for cleaning.

Sir Oxman

HardyEustace wrote: »

In that case, what recourse do you have? Does that mean that tenants can leave the place absolutely manky with no consequences? That doesn't seem right?

@Distorted - the tenant in this case was male. The previous one was female.

@monkeypants - I think in future that I'll tell any tenant moving out that I'll do a pre-inspection if they like about a week beforehand but that I will be prepared to take money from the deposit for cleaning.

http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=241

professore

This amazes me. I first thought that the place had been really trashed - but the worst thing is some mold around a plughole ???? FFFSSS ???

OK they SHOULD have cleaned the place properly - BUT by the same token you should clean the place thouroughly after each letting REGARDLESS of what cleaning the previous tenants have done. What if hotels had the same attitude ?

Maybe a visiting kid broke the lampshade and put it back together and didn't tell anyone ? I would consider this wear and tear in any event. The tenant would probably have replaced it had you asked. I have seen occasions of landlords keeping € 100 + for a € 10 item.

monkeypants

Kimia wrote: »

Monkeypants, seriously, this has been covered time and time again. Cleaning costs cannot be taken out of the deposit.

Really? I've had small amounts taken out of mine a couple of times over the past decade and a bit.

What is a landlord expected to do then if I leave the place in a heap?

Kimia

HardyEustace wrote: »

In that case, what recourse do you have? Does that mean that tenants can leave the place absolutely manky with no consequences? That doesn't seem right?

@Distorted - the tenant in this case was male. The previous one was female.

@monkeypants - I think in future that I'll tell any tenant moving out that I'll do a pre-inspection if they like about a week beforehand but that I will be prepared to take money from the deposit for cleaning.

But then they can report you to the PRTB. Maybe someone else can clarify but afaik you are not entitled to take any money out of the deposit for cleaning.

derdider

I had my house rented out to a family years ago thinking that a mother would kids would want to keep the house clean and as a suitable place for children to grow up.

How wrong i was.

The grass in the back garden was literally 4 feet high even though he was supplied with a lawnmower and advised that maintaining the garden was his resposibility.

They let their children draw and colour all over the walls with markers and crayons and stick up stickers on all of the walls and doors

There was mould growing everywhere inside. You could hardly see out the windows. The smell was unbelievable

"Luckily" for me, they cracked the bath but said nothing so everytime they showered or bathed the kids the water would flood into the kitchen leading to the presses all rotting, the ceiling bowing and basically the whole kitchen and bathroom being rotted and destroyed.

I say i was lucky because the damage was so extensive the insurance paid for it all to be gutted and re-built which would have had to be done anyway. The whole house had to literally be gutted, cleaned, re-plastered, re-painted, new doors, floors, beds, tables, counter-tops etc... Took me months to do and cost me thousands (and thats aside from what the insurance paid). The garden still isnt right after being left go so much

Youd say something if i had rented it out to bunch of 20 year old college students or something but youd think a family with young kids would have more cop-on.

The worst part is when they left the Dept of Social Welfare got them a brand new house down the road (this isnt a council estate by the way) and for weeks i could see the council doing up the garden for them, putting in new windows, painting it etc...for when they moved in. :rolleyes: Totally sickening.

professore

derdider wrote: »

I had my house rented out to a family years ago thinking that a mother would kids would want to keep the house clean and as a suitable place for children to grow up.

How wrong i was.

The grass in the back garden was literally 4 feet high even though he was supplied with a lawnmower and advised that maintaining the garden was his resposibility.

They let their children draw and colour all over the walls with markers and crayons and stick up stickers on all of the walls and doors

There was mould growing everywhere inside. You could hardly see out the windows. The smell was unbelievable

"Luckily" for me, they cracked the bath but said nothing so everytime they showered or bathed the kids the water would flood into the kitchen leading to the presses all rotting, the ceiling bowing and basically the whole kitchen and bathroom being rotted and destroyed.

I say i was lucky because the damage was so extensive the insurance paid for it all to be gutted and re-built which would have had to be done anyway. The whole house had to literally be gutted, cleaned, re-plastered, re-painted, new doors, floors, beds, tables, counter-tops etc... Took me months to do and cost me thousands (and thats aside from what the insurance paid). The garden still isnt right after being left go so much

Youd say something if i had rented it out to bunch of 20 year old college students or something but youd think a family with young kids would have more cop-on.

The worst part is when they left the Dept of Social Welfare got them a brand new house down the road (this isnt a council estate by the way) and for weeks i could see the council doing up the garden for them, putting in new windows, painting it etc...for when they moved in. :rolleyes: Totally sickening.

Not THATS what I call bad tenants !!!!!!

monkeypants

Kimia wrote: »

But then they can report you to the PRTB. Maybe someone else can clarify but afaik you are not entitled to take any money out of the deposit for cleaning.

Will the PRTB then investigate the state of the property?

HardyEustace

professore wrote: »

This amazes me. I first thought that the place had been really trashed - but the worst thing is some mold around a plughole ???? FFFSSS ???

On the one hand I can see your point - yes, the main fixtures and fittings were fine. But on the other hand, the room was not left in the same condition that it was let at. The plug hole was absolutely manky as was a lot of room. Damage had been caused as a result of not cleaning. The toilet was stained and took a lot of cleaning as the tenant obviously didn't clean it on a regular basis. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a decent level of cleanliness.

professore wrote: »

OK they SHOULD have cleaned the place properly - BUT by the same token you should clean the place thouroughly after each letting REGARDLESS of what cleaning the previous tenants have done. What if hotels had the same attitude ?

I do this each time. As I mentioned I'm fully happy and prepared to accept the cost and time of repainting the room and ensuring that it is cleaned to the highest standard. However, I've a massive problem with picking someone's toenail clippings off the en-suite floor.

professore wrote: »

Maybe a visiting kid broke the lampshade and put it back together and didn't tell anyone ? I would consider this wear and tear in any event. The tenant would probably have replaced it had you asked. I have seen occasions of landlords keeping € 100 + for a € 10 item.

I doubt that happened. The lampshade was very obviously organised in order to disguise the fact that that it had been broken. And we've all heard good and bad stories about landlords. Just because another landlord kept back 100euro for a lampshade doesn't mean I don't have the right to be annoyed over something being broken.

monkeypants wrote: »

Really? I've had small amounts taken out of mine a couple of times over the past decade and a bit.

What is a landlord expected to do then if I leave the place in a heap?

See that's my point.

Kimia wrote: »

But then they can report you to the PRTB. Maybe someone else can clarify but afaik you are not entitled to take any money out of the deposit for cleaning.

I think it's if the money is used for things like painting and/or carpet shampooing. However, I do think that if the room is not to the standard the tenant moved in, there must be some form of recourse.

makeorbrake

@OP: I've been doing the rent a room gig for the past 5 years. I'm afraid there is no solution to the problem you mention. As others have pointed out NOBODY treats someone elses property like they would their own. Your mileage will vary - and even though first impressions might guide you - you never really know the individual until they've moved in. I've had all ends of the spectrum.

As regards having to do a clean up after someone moving out, i'm afraid that you will either have to learn to accept this or else stop renting - it's as simple as that. Some of the stuff you mention is par for the course.

The broken lamp - its disappointing but most people won't want to own up to these kind of things. Again - get used to it. Inspect everything as much as you can before giving deposit back.

Otherwise, the only other thing you can do is to tell them before they move in whats important to you. That way, they can't claim they don't know what the deal is.