shoulder patch flag orientation

lg123

just watched an interview with gen david patraeus on tv, he was in the baggy uniform you see them wearing while in iraq. i spotted the us flag on his right shoulder was in the wrong direction, as in the square blue bit with the stars was in the top right corner rather than the left. does this mean something? i'm hoping for his countrys sake some spanner didnt sew it on the wrong way.

Irish_Army01

lg123 wrote: »

just watched an interview with gen david patraeus on tv, he was in the baggy uniform you see them wearing while in iraq. i spotted the us flag on his right shoulder was in the wrong direction, as in the square blue bit with the stars was in the top right corner rather than the left. does this mean something? i'm hoping for his countrys sake some spanner didnt sew it on the wrong way.

He is not a spanner (whomever sewed it on)and yes it means something.. They wear the Flag like that when outside of the US on deployment..

Victor

Its worn the same way as if it was flown from a moving vehicle - the stars are always face forward.

lg123

Irish_Army01 wrote: »

He is not a spanner (whomever sewed it on)and yes it means something.. They wear the Flag like that when outside of the US on deployment..

is that just a US thing or do all countries do that?

Victor wrote: »

Its worn the same way as if it was flown from a moving vehicle - the stars are always face forward.

would this not mean the stars were at the end of the flag, i.e backwards?

Victor

The stars are always at the pole. http://www.flagsbay.com/flag/2007/12/06/properly-lowering-us-flag-to-half-staff/

lg123

Victor wrote: »

The stars are always at the pole. http://www.flagsbay.com/flag/2007/12/06/properly-lowering-us-flag-to-half-staff/

yes of course, but going back to my first post the general had his patch on backwards with the stars to the right. i dont understand your moving vehicle thing?

either way i think irish_army has answered my question.

Manic Moran

lg123 wrote: »

yes of course, but going back to my first post the general had his patch on backwards with the stars to the right. i dont understand your moving vehicle thing?

Imagine that you are standing to the right of someone or something so that you can see their right arm who is advancing with a US flag on a flagpole, with the flag streaming in the wind. You will note that the Union is to the viewer's right.




This is not unique to the military.

They wear the Flag like that when outside of the US on deployment..

It is worn like that in the US as well. Just sometimes on deployment they use an IR reflective variant vice the full colour.

is that just a US thing or do all countries do that?

You don't need to look too far. Check out the tricolors on the tails of these Irish military aircraft.



NTM

lg123

thats what i thought victor meant but didnt see how it was relevant as it would depend on what side of the car you were on.

what would it mean on these irish aircraft? i'm guessing the plane wouldnt be on extended overseas deployment long enough to put a new sticker on?

Manic Moran

didnt see how it was relevant as it would depend on what side of the car you were on.

Yes, but that's the point. On the US uniform, the flag is worn on the right shoulder only. If the flag were worn on the left shoulder, it would look 'normal'.

i'm guessing the plane wouldnt be on extended overseas deployment

[Brief pause while I recover from laughing]

More seriously, what would it mean on these irish aircraft

It's not an issue of a 'meaning', it's just having the 'flagpole' side to the front. Obviously they won't put an -actual- flag on a small pole on the aircraft, the painted one simulates it, and the effect of what it would look like from the starboard side had it been one. On the port side, it looks 'normal'


NTM

lg123

i'm glad i'm entertaining you .

thanks for the explainations, i get what you mean but i cant articulate it.

while were on this topic, i remember when the iraq invasion was on tv, the tanks had a greater than (>) or less than (<) symbol on the side, what does ths mean?
i found this example


ps. i dont have some obsessive disorder towards this kind of thing, they just caught my eye and i thought, why?

Victor

I think there is an infrared identification panel there.

Also note the orange stuff on top of the vehicle on the right to aid blue-blue targeting identification.

lg123

interesting, something like a barcode?

xflyer

As other pointed out, the US patch is worn that way deliberately, even though it looks wrong. Something to do with advancing forward as if on a flagpole. It's the same with US aircraft. Even though the convention generally is to view flags left to right. The Irish army get round it by only wearing the flag on the left arm.

There is often a difference of opinion on aircraft too. Aer Lingus for example paint their tricolour left to right, so that the orange is forward on the right side. Ryanair have green to front on both sides.

As for the vehicle photos, Victor is correct. The arrow symbols indicate allied vehicles. That would be most useful for ground vehicles in identifying friendly forces. The bright orange panel on top is for aircraft. Incidentally this went right back to WW2 when allied vehicles had orange sheets to stop them being strafed by allied fighters. And of course at night the infrared identification panels would show up well on thermal images. So as you can see, they weren't taking any chances.

Manic Moran

To further confuse matters, in the US and Israeli militaries, the orientation of the chevron helps to tell which unit the tank is in. It's a platoon marking in the US, I think it's a battalion marking in Israel.

NTM

tac foley

Manic Moran wrote: »

To further confuse matters, in the US and Israeli militaries, the orientation of the chevron helps to tell which unit the tank is in. It's a platoon marking in the US, I think it's a battalion marking in Israel.

NTM

The markings on IDF tanks indicate the battalion, company and platoon.

The battalion is indicated by the rings on gun barrel, one ring = first battalion, two ring = second battalion, et al.

The company is indicated by the chevrons (the V's) V = 1st company, > = 2nd company, ^ = 3rd company and < = 4th company.

The platoon and the number of the tank in the platoon is indicated by a Hebrew letter [Aleph, Bet, Gimmel, Dalet = Platoon A, B, C or D] and number, 1, 2,3. They are normally indicated on panels at the rear of the turret.

These insignia can often be seen on the mudguards and also include a geometric symbol [star, circle, square, rhomboid] that can be used to identify the regiment.

They also have a habit of changing the markings on the tanks to create confunglement to an observer.

tac

Irish_Army01

lg123 wrote: »

is that just a US thing or do all countries do that?

I doubt it as most other Flags are the same backwards ..

tac foley

Irish_Army01 wrote: »

I doubt it as most other Flags are the same backwards ..

Not so, Sir.

Flags that are layered vertically certainly are, but many flags are barred left to right, or simply assymetric. Norway, Sweden and Finland are the first assymetic flags to come to mind, plus

Andorra
France
Bosnia & Herzogivina
Liechtenstein
Moldova
Montenegro
Serbia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Greece
Iceland
Czech Republic
Wales
Cyprus
Italy
Spain
Portugal
UK -subtle, but detectable
Belgium
Belarus

...and that's just Europe north and south.

As for the rest of the world, well -

Algeria, American Samoa, Angola, Anguilla, Aruba, Australia, Azerbaijan, Benin, Bermuda, Bhutan, Brazil, British Antarctic Territory, Brunei, Burma.....ALL have assymetric flags that only go one way around.....and I heven't finished the 'B's' yet....

tac