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service charge of 12.5% will be added to parties of six or more
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just to get back to yous ask anyone who worls at this job do they get min wage you do not
if a person does not give you a tip there is something wrong with them
if i go out to eat i tip
i have dyslexia if you like to no0 -
samapple789 wrote: »just to get back to yous ask anyone who worls at this job do they get min wage you do not
if a person does not give you a tip there is something wrong with them
if i go out to eat i tip
i have dyslexia if you like to no
There are loads of people who work in the service industry that provide a service to me, many are on minimum wage that I dont tip. I guess neither do you.0 -
samapple789 wrote: »just to get back to yous ask anyone who worls at this job do they get min wage you do not
You should report your employer for breaking the law. I shouldn't have to subsidise your wages because your boss doesn't want to pay the minimum wage.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 30620
super_furry wrote: »You should report your employer for breaking the law. I shouldn't have to subsidise your wages because your boss doesn't want to pay the minimum wage.
Unfortunately I have to agree with this.
We overpay significantly for almost everything in this country- without so much as a peep. We might leave and then bad mouth the place, and vow never to return- but it is not the job of a customer to bring the wage being paid to any of the employees up to the minimum wage level. Even the dishwashers in the kitchen are entitled to minimum wage. The idea of a tip is to recognise outstanding service rendered- it is not a normal payment, nor is it standard. TIP stands for- To Insure Promptness- and in the US it used to be the case that regular patrons of local restaurants would leave a small gratuity to receive enhanced service on their next visit. That the original intent of the 'tip' has changed into a core component of a salary there- is totally irrelevant in an Irish context- at least we have significant legal minimum wages that all employees are entitled to- the federal legal levels in the state are just over 1/8 what the Irish levels are at.........0 -
Then it would be 'TEPS' To Ensure Prompt Service. This is the same as the Port Out, Starboard Home explanation of 'posh' -a backronym i.e. not true.0
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Some people go to a modern industrialised superpower and might have incorrectly assumed that in this day & age workers do get paid minimum wage, rather than this strange haphazard backward method of paying peoples wages -which also leads to high levels of tax evasion. I have read ~40% of tips are undeclared in the US.Its the height of ignorance for Brits, Australians and to a lesser extent Irish people to go there and not tip. So they get auto-grat'ed.
So if you are tipping in those states there there is no logical reason not to tip other services, checkout girls, guys in mcdonalds etc.Laws in the states of Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington require all employees to be paid at least minimum wage.
Ignorance is rife, just look at ignorant people using oxymorons like "automatic gratuity" to describe a mandatory service charge -its appalling what the schools are churning out these days.0 -
My problem with tipping in Ireland is that it's inexplicably linked only to waitressing and barwork. I work in retail and earn minimum wage. People come to me, basically give me an order, and I get everything they've requested. I can spend anything from 5 minutes to half an hour exclusively with the one customer. And do I get tipped? No. I've been a waitress too and the service I provided then wasn't a patch on what I do now. So I don't think tipping makes sense when we're all earning minimum wage - either you tip everyone who provides a service, or no-one.0
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Services charges are optional. You have no obligation to pay a service charge at the end of the bill.
Restuarants expecting their customers to tip (like in North America) are a complete disgrace. You're basically asking your customers to pay for the food and then pay your staff as well, while you pocket the profits on the food.
A couple of times I've not tipped at all in the States and only left basic tips (< 10%) for adequate service, and I'm not ashamed nor am I a skinflint. I will reward a conscientious, attentive and friendly waiter/waitress, because they're doing the job above what's required of them. I will not reward someone who just writes down an order and comes back with the food, because that's the minimum they should be doing.0 -
The bill is priced the way it is because of the way North American waitstaff and kitchenstaff get paid. I heard countless Brits and Australians comment on how cheap their bill was, then proceeding to leave out 20% of the expected payment, leaving the poor Canadian server who been breaking their necks to make sure the meal was a top experience bewildered and upset.nor am I a skinflint.
Its worse if they got stuck with one large table who didnt tip (it was foreigners 100% of the time, no Canadian would fail to leave a tip of less than 18%, they would be mortified in front of their party). This isnt "extra" money, its money they normally earn that they are losing when you dont tip. You can argue the semantics all you like, its a totally different situation to Europe. This guys were often trained experts in food and wine whose basic wage was about 1/4 of what youd earn in McDonalds here.
The server has to tip out the barstaff and kitchen from their tips, so you are taking money directly out of everyones pockets by not tipping them.
Ignorance is one thing, but believe me, "skinflint" is exactly how you are percieved if you dont tip there. Ive seen people pursued outside the restaurant by furious staff over this.0 -
Trust me, I'm not ignorant, I'm perfectly aware of how it works. I'm not going to tip someone for doing their job in the most basic manner possible. If someone breaks their neck, I'll reward them. But I refuse to become part of the ridiculous culture that ensures that employers can pay their staff little or nothing and expect their customers to do it for them.Ignorance is one thing, but believe me, "skinflint" is exactly how you are percieved if you dont tip there. Ive seen people pursued outside the restaurant by furious staff over this.
If someone ends up having to pay out of their own pocket because they're not very good at their job, then that's their problem, not mine.
No, food is not that cheap in the U.S. If it was, I would be more amenable to tipping the balance.0 -
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Seamus, I agree with your point if we are in Ireland. But in the US I have to agree with Ciaran. Do you not see that if you don't tip a waitress in the US, you are literally taking that service for free?I'm not going to tip someone for doing their job in the most basic manner possible
And you should tip the basic amount which is afair aprpox 17%. If you don't pay this tip in the US/Canada you are making the waitress/waiter bring you your food and serve you for nothing. Why would they do that?0 -
No, they are still getting paid by their employer to provide that service. The amount they get paid isn't really my concern; They don't have to work there for that amount of money.Seamus, I agree with your point if we are in Ireland. But in the US I have to agree with Ciaran. Do you not see that if you don't tip a waitress in the US, you are literally taking that service for free?
If the restaurant didn't pay their staff, but made it possible for me to order and collect my food myself, then yes I would tip them for providing that service. As it stands, I don't have any option except to use the waiter, therefore that is a service the restaurant pays for, not me.0 -
I also think it strange to have a fixed %. If you serve 2 identical tables but one orders a €20 bottle of wine and another gets a €520 bottle then the waiter on the €520 table gets €90 more if tipping 18% -what is that all about? waiters in expensive restaurants will be being paid more in general.My problem with tipping in Ireland is that it's inexplicably linked only to waitressing and barwork.
Yes, its bizarre they have such a haphazard system/method of payment, if staff are infact getting furious and upset you would think they would ask the restaurant to stop this crazy policy. I have heard some restaurants in the states have anti-tipping policies, the price is just included from the start like most other services. I don't see the reason to separate it out, if it is mandatory why even list it as 18%, why not just increase all the prices to 18% to stop all the unnecessary calculation which just reduces clarity of prices -like what they tried to do with airlines. If you think it is a good idea to separate it out then why not do it more?You can argue the semantics all you like, its a totally different situation to Europe.
Dinner $5
chef hire +10%
Light & heat +3%
Waiter +18%
Food costs +30%
Cleaning lady +3%
An no-tipping policy means staff are not in competition too, which was a reason some gave to introduce it, they also know what they will have in their pocket at the end of the week. I would hate to be paid less in my job and be told to expect to earn more from the customers I deal with -at their discretion.
Not in all states as I already showedBut in the US I have to agree with Ciaran. Do you not see that if you don't tip a waitress in the US, you are literally taking that service for free?
-so should service staff still be tipped in those states? and if so please explain how would you differentiate which service staff should get it, e.g. waiters, barmen, mcdonalds servers, dry cleaners, courier, dentist, doctor, checkout girl, sandwich maker.Laws in the states of Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington require all employees to be paid at least minimum wage.
Also they are being paid in the other states, if all customers are not paying enough they should really ask for an anti-tipping policy -but from what I hear some have a very good thing going and can earn an absolute fortune and evade tax too. I know lads in college who went over to work a single day in bars on st.patricks day, the tips alone paid for their flights.
It is ridiculous that a waiter would be paid €90 more to open a €520 bottle of wine.0 -
Well thats kind of the point, they dont "work there for that amount of money", they work for tips. They get a nominal amount for showing up, then start to earn.They don't have to work there for that amount of money.
Reading this, Im pretty glad I applied an auto-grat to all Irish in the restaurants I worked in. Id have had some craic explaining to the kitchen and barstaff where their money was. Sure Paddy and his mates dont have to tip. Or telling my local barman I didnt have to tip either, Id have been ****ed out of the boozer on my ear.0 -
He is saying they do not have to work there full stop. If people are getting furious and chasing customers out the door perhaps they might be suited to a different job where they know what they will be paid. Or if it is happening a lot ask the owner to introduce a no-tipping policy and just pay the proper wage.Well thats kind of the point, they dont "work there for that amount of money", they work for tips.
It is their choice to work there, so they know the deal and take the risk. It would be like a busker taking a risk expecting payment from the public rather than being hired out by a pub for the night.
Some of your comments seem very snide. Would you not be even more glad if there was no need for your oxymoronic "auto-grat" at all, that you just charged the correct price from the start and cut out all this unnecessary nonsense.Reading this, Im pretty glad I applied an auto-grat to all Irish in the restaurants I worked in.
Would they not be happier to be just paid like any other people in other jobs? I think it would be quite strange trying to explain to people in my company that their wages were to be cut and that they would become dependent on tips from customers. There would be outrage and from your posts it seems to be quite a touchy subject -so why do they not just cop-on and ask the boss to stop this ridiculous tipping system.Id have had some craic explaining to the kitchen and barstaff where their money was.0 -
Ah so I should have just single-handedly reformed the entire industry across an entire continent, why didnt I think of that! Track down the investors and owners of each restaurant, and say "Here this business model youve been using for the past 100 years, its not working out for me". Get real will yaWould they not be happier to be just paid like any other people in other jobs?
Seriously people, dont be a douchebag, just tip.0 -
Seriously people, dont be a douchebag, just tip.
The 'douchebags' are the ones who tip even when the service is rubbish. Tipping a taxi driver in New York is expected, right? So should I have tipped the taxi driver who didn't know which terminal was which when dropping me to the airport? Not a chance. Same goes for bad service in any restaurant or bar or anywhere else where tips are expected. I'm not paying the wages. That's the job of the employer.0 -
OMG, you ARE paying the wages. Thats how the system works over there. Just because you dont think its ideal, doesnt mean you get to opt out of it without people thinking you are a complete prick. Why is this so hard to understand?I'm not paying the wages. That's the job of the employer.
If I bring my car to a mechanic and I get a bill for parts and labour, can I just leave the labour off it if I want? No I cant, thats not how it works.0 -
No, they are still getting paid by their employer to provide that service. The amount they get paid isn't really my concern; They don't have to work there for that amount of money.
Seamus, they don't get paid at all. The only amount they get paid is the amount you decide to leave as payment for them bringing you your food. As I've stated, if you don't do this, you pay them (and the restaurant pays them) nothing.
I too don't understand why you are all finding this so hard to understand. There is NO minimum wage over there, my american buddies got paid something like 15 dollars a week being a waitress/waiter. If you don't tip, you don't get served. That's pretty much it. Why should they serve you for free?0 -
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Is it the fault of the customer that they are working in a job that pays $15 a week? There are prices on the menu, they are the prices that you have to pay. A tip is at the discretion of the customer, and no one should tip for bad service. I don't get why that is so difficult to comprehend.0
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Tipping is part of their culture, it's widely known and not a shock to anyone visiting the US, and to not tip because you don't agree with it on principle is simply bad manners tbh. Go ahead and don't tip, but don't expect to be greeted, seated and served again in the same establishment, and don't expect the manager to stand up for you because they won't.
However, as stated before, I have a different view in Ireland.0 -
The only reason I would not tip is if the service was bad. If the service was good enough, I would tip. I do the same in Ireland. If I didn't tip then I wouldn't be going back anyway as the service was obviously not up to scratch. I couldn't give a monkeys whether the manager is going to stand up for me or not. If the manager cannot employ someone who can provide proper service then that's his/her problem.Tipping is part of their culture, it's widely known and not a shock to anyone visiting the US, and to not tip because you don't agree with it on principle is simply bad manners tbh. Go ahead and don't tip, but don't expect to be greeted, seated and served again in the same establishment, and don't expect the manager to stand up for you because they won't.
However, as stated before, I have a different view in Ireland.0 -
My response was based on the assumption that the service received was good.0
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Did you really think I said that, maybe trying reading it again, s.l.o.w.l.y.Ah so I should have just single-handedly reformed the entire industry across an entire continent,
If people are getting so upset over it that they are running down the road in a furious rage, do you not thing they should say something? Seriously waiters, don't be an arsehole all your life and at least suggest it if it upsets you so much, or get a new job if you cannot hack it.Seriously people, dont be a douchebag, just tip.
There are plenty of links on google to places in the US changing this ridiculous system, as it is obviously not working out for them. Maybe one day they will change to metric too, they really do themselves no favours, they are a laughing stock to many other countries."Here this business model youve been using for the past 100 years, its not working out for me".
This one makes the same point as I did about the wine.
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/09/05/050905ta_talk_surowiecki
Strange they say 80% prefer tipping to a set charge, I suppose it does give control if service was bad they do not have to pay so there is that aspect, it would be like me saying I would like to get to decide how much my dentist should be paid for her labour. And why did they not ask if the waiter should simply be paid a reasonable wage, and not have service based on the cost of the meal you choose. I wonder how they were questioned about this, esp. after reading this one.Thomas Keller is one of the world’s most respected chefs, a best-selling cookbook author, and the owner of four successful high-end restaurants. Until a few weeks ago, he seemed a model of entrepreneurial rigor. Then news broke that Keller had decided to abolish tipping at his New York restaurant Per Se, starting this month, and replace it with the kind of fixed service charge that’s common in Europe. Now some people are calling him un-American for scrapping a system in which waiters are rewarded on the basis of their individual performance.
Restaurant workers in the United States make more than twenty-five billion dollars a year in tips, so it’s natural that people think of the custom as quintessentially American. But it wasn’t always. Tipping didn’t take hold here until after the Civil War, and even as it spread it met with fervent public opposition from people who considered it a toxic vestige of Old World patronage. Anti-tipping associations were formed; newspapers—including the Times—regularly denounced the custom. Tipping, the activists held, fostered a masterservant relationship that was ill suited to a nation in which people were meant to be social equals. William R. Scott, in his 1916 polemic “The Itching Palm,” described the tip as the price that “one American is willing to pay to induce another American to acknowledge inferiority”; Gunton’s Magazine labelled the custom “offensively un-American,” arguing that workers here should seek honest wages “instead of fawning for favors.” The anti-tipping campaigns were so effective that six states actually banned the practice.
The opponents of tipping got some important things right. They saw that tipping was an aberration in a freemarket economy, and that tips had a lot in common with gifts. They also understood that economics alone could not explain why customers were willing to tip. What they missed was that the very things they thought made tipping un-American—the waiters’ need to cultivate a relationship with the customer, and their reliance on that customer’s largesse—were exactly what would eventually make tipping a powerful social norm.
People tip even though they don’t have to. Since they tip after they’ve been served, they’re not buying good treatment in advance. Nor are they just buttering up their regular waitresses—studies show that people tip about as well at out-of-town restaurants as they do at their local Bennigan’s. Americans are paying money that they do not have to pay, then, while receiving no obvious benefit as a result.
So why tip? When people are asked, they usually say that they tip to reward good service. Yet how much people tip is determined mainly by how much their meal cost, and the cost of a meal at a given restaurant is usually only tenuously connected to the work required to serve it. (It’s just as easy to open a hundred-dollar bottle of wine as it is to open a thirty-dollar bottle.) In an extensive survey of tipping studies, Michael Lynn, a professor at Cornell, found only a weak correlation between the quality of service that people report receiving and the tips they give. On average, exceptional service raised tips by about 1.5 per cent, which, Lynn argues, is too small for waiters to notice. And countries where there’s no tipping—like Australia and Japan—don’t have worse service than the United States.
It’s instructive to consider the sort of things that tippers actually respond to. In one study, a waitress received fifty per cent more in tips when she introduced herself by name than when she didn’t. In another, waiters sharply increased their tips by giving each member of a dining party a piece of candy and then, seemingly spontaneously, offering each person a second piece, too. Squatting by the table instead of standing, writing “Thank you” on the back of checks, and touching customers on their shoulders all measurably improved tips. And waitresses at an upscale restaurant who simply put flowers in their hair boosted their tips by seventeen per cent.
These tricks may seem cutesy, but they help personalize the relationship between the customer and the server, which tells you something important about the nature of tipping. The practice really belongs to what sociologists call a gift economy rather than to a market one. The free market, at least in theory, is all about impersonal exchange—as long as you have goods to sell and I have money to buy them, we can make a deal, regardless of how we feel about each other. But, when it comes to tipping, who we are and how we feel matter a lot, because a tip is essentially a gift, and we give better gifts to people we like than to people we don’t. Tippers aren’t trying to drive hard bargains or maximize their economic interests; they’re trying to demonstrate their status and to reciprocate what they see as good behavior.
This is, on both sides, a more uncertain process than a simple service charge would be. But that uncertainty—that freedom to exercise discretion, to leave as little or as much as you wish—is why tipping has flourished as a social institution. (In the same spirit, Americans prefer giving charity privately rather than through their government.) Diners—eighty per cent of whom say that they prefer tipping to a set service charge—like the power that the ability to tip gives them. Waiters like tipping because it gives them the chance to distinguish themselves from the crowd and to score an occasional windfall. Tipping, curiously, has gone from being the antithesis of individualism to its apotheosis. That’s not because tipping has changed. It’s because America has.
http://www.entrepreneur.com/magazine/entrepreneur/2009/march/200038.html
I don't know why they put the service charge in, and why it is based on what the meals cost. I wonder if they pay the chef more if he is cooking more expensive cuts of meat? Do they guys in the back putting wine in fridges get paid more if the wine is more expensive? its utter nonsense, and most of these gobshites don't even question it! Why does he not declare his own wages on the menu, does he really think people are that interested? just put the price you want to be paid on the menu and be done with it.Ever feel like tipping has lost its charm? Tip jars are plentiful, and everyone from the bellboy to the barista expects a little something. Now some restaurant heavyweights are weighing in. Chefs Thomas Keller and Alice Waters have discouraged tipping by implementing a fixed service charge at their restaurants. Meanwhile, Jay Porter is taking it one step further at his San Diego farm-to-table restaurant, The Linkery. Not only did he set a service charge of 18 percent, but he also started an "anti-tipping laboratory," outright banning tips after observing that they were creating negative competition among his staff. "Within six weeks of making the switch, the e-mail feedback from our guests regarding service had a 180-degree change in tone," says Porter, 38, who started the experiment in 2006 and reports that sales have increased fivefold since then.
But will anti-tipping ever go mainstream? Michael Lynn, professor of consumer behavior at the Cornell University School of Hotel Administration, is doubtful. "There will always be some people who want to be generous and help the server or perhaps show off, so they'll leave tips," he says. "That's going to put social pressure on others. It just feeds on itself so you're [always] going to have tipping."
That article also says there would always be tipping, but it could easily be banned, it is already illegal to tip government workers in the US. I do agree with them saying it is demeaning.
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/12/opinion/l-ban-tipping-399221.htmlThe discrimination claim by Charles Thompson, a black restaurant patron in Miami Beach whose bill included an automatic gratuity, is just another reason that it's time for all restaurants to ban tipping (news article, Nov. 10).
Instead of relying on tips to supplement its employees' incomes, restaurants should raise their prices by 20 percent and the wages of their servers by an equal amount. This has several advantages. Servers would get steady wages and not be at the mercy of poor tippers; servers would be unable to hide any income from the Internal Revenue Service, and customers would be spared the pressure of deciding how much to tip.
To maintain quality service, servers should be monitored by management just like any workers dealing with the public, and those who cannot provide good service without the incentive of tips should be fired.
More articles here
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magazine/12tipping-t.html?_r=1
http://www.roadjunky.com/article/2254/the-culture-of-tipping-around-the-world-so why do they not just cop-on and ask the boss to stop this ridiculous tipping system.
Really? what I find hilarious is the image of some furious idiot pursing customers down the street, and then the same arsehole goes back and says nothing to his boss about changing the way things are done. Why do they tolerate this crap? If they got fired they might be better off, the job does not suit them, personally I would despise being paid in this manner -so I would not go for such a job. I find it odd that the people would pick these jobs knowing full well what goes on, and then get so upset over it.haha this is hilarious.
I don't know why you think it is so hilarious, it is already happening. And they are not going to get fired for a suggestion.
Now thats hilarious, do you think this is the law there or something? are you really saying no waiter or barmen is paid a penny -and bear in mind the states I already mentioned twice where a min wage is enforced.Seamus, they don't get paid at all.0
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