Expulsion of Roma Gypsies From France

P. Breathnach

Deleted User wrote: »

Haven't you spent most of this thread suggesting that Roma are the only ones really being targetedso therefore wouldn't the majority of those in the illegal camps to be closed be... Roma?

Your line of logic is difficult to follow. It looks to me like: If A, then A.

opo

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Your line of logic is difficult to follow. It looks to me like: If A, then A.

Your line of logic assumes that Roma camps in France are some sort of multi-national/multi-ethnic utopia, found nowhere else on the planet.

P. Breathnach

opo wrote: »

Your line of logic assumes that Roma camps in France are some sort of multi-national/multi-ethnic utopia, found nowhere else on the planet.

You post this shortly after posting a suggestion that those who take a different view from yours must be stupid?

opo

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You post this shortly after posting a suggestion that those who take a different view from yours must be stupid?

It looks like you are following a line of posters here - hell bent on ramming your version of events home without the downside of proving anything.

So here we go again:

Are the majority of residents in Roma camps in France - that are the topic here - populated by Roma?

If not - what percentage of those living in these Roma camps are not Roma?

P. Breathnach

opo wrote: »

It looks like you are following a line of posters here - hell bent on ramming your version of events home without the downside of proving anything.

That is a dishonest post. I have produced evidence in support of my position. Have you brought anything to the table?

So here we go again:

Are the majority of residents in Roma camps in France - that are the topic here - populated by Roma?

If not - what percentage of those living in these Roma camps are not Roma?

In my opinion, the majority, perhaps all, of the residents in Roma camps are Roma (we seem to be having trouble moving away from "If A, then A" thinking).

I'll offer you a further opinion: the majority, perhaps all, of the residents in non-Roma camps are not Roma.

P. Breathnach

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Your line of logic is difficult to follow. It looks to me like: If A, then A.

Which is not an answer. That's a deflection. The logic is sound. If you have spent most of the thread saying that the French Government is targeting the Roma, then it stands to reason that the majority of those in the camps chosen would be Roma. If the camps do not contain a majority of Roma, then the French Government must be rather inept in targeting solely the Roma. Quite straightforward logic imo.

P. Breathnach

Deleted User wrote: »

Which is not an answer. That's a deflection. The logic is sound. If you have spent most of the thread saying that the French Government is targeting the Roma, then it stands to reason that the majority of those in the camps chosen would be Roma. If the camps do not contain a majority of Roma, then the French Government must be rather inept in targeting solely the Roma. Quite straightforward logic imo.

It's no logic at all. They are targeting Roma, so they are choosing Roma camps to tackle. That's the very nature of targeting.

Nodin

caseyann wrote: »

How is it (.....)them?

Your post gives the impression that the Roma are somehow 'unclean'. I think if you reread it this may become apparent.

Nodin

caseyann wrote: »

(............)
Prove that France have it in their thoughts that they are targeting roma because they are roma?

Its been covered already.

opo

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It's no logic at all. They are targeting Roma, so they are choosing Roma camps to tackle. That's they very nature of targeting.

You are evading again. What people occupy what you call the non Roma camps?

opo

Nodin wrote: »

Its been covered already.

It has'nt.

DublinWriter

Maybe it's the lack of sleep, but didn't Ireland deport a few plane-loads of Roma circa 2007? I half-remember the story - I think they had camped on a roundabout somewhere in Dublin?

FlutterinBantam

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I suppose it's a waste of time asking that you practise good manners: my name is not Walshy.

Sorry son, just trying to be friendly like.

P. Breathnach

opo wrote: »

You are evading again. What people occupy what you call the non Roma camps?

You know, your style of discussion is quite irksome, and it is flagrantly dishonest to accuse me of evading questions. I have just answered a question that I thought was pointless, mainly to humour you.

Now it's time for you to do your own research, and bring evidence forward if you can find something.

P. Breathnach

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Sorry son, just trying to be friendly like.

I was right: it's a waste of time asking you to practise good manners.

opo

DublinWriter wrote: »

Maybe it's the lack of sleep, but didn't Ireland deport a few plane-loads of Roma circa 2007? I half-remember the story - I think they had camped on a roundabout somewhere in Dublin?

Correct.

And if this was happening today - the same people here would probably imply that they were ethnically cleansed and that a few dozen irish travellers were booted out at the same time for good measure.

Moreover - they would claim it was racism to remove them first and not - for example - caravans of travellers illegally in any other part of Ireland.

P. Breathnach

opo wrote: »

Correct.

And if this was happening today - the same people here would probably imply that they were ethnically cleansed and that a few dozen irish travellers were booted out at the same time for good measure.

Moreover - they would claim it was racism to remove them first and not - for example - caravans of travellers illegally in any other part of Ireland.

Who are "the same people here" whose views you purport to know?

opo

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Now it's time for you to do your own research, and bring evidence forward if you can find something.

No it is not. I am not claiming that the French are uniquely targetting an ethnic group. You are but you don't want to be drawn on a simple question that would really clarify if this is the case or not.

That question again is - what percentage of the illegal camps are not Roma or gypsies of whatever nationality?

P. Breathnach

opo wrote: »

No it is not. I am not claiming that the French are uniquely targetting an ethnic group. You are but you don't want to be drawn on a simple question that would really clarify if this is the case or not.

That question again is - what percentage of the illegal camps are not Roma or gypsies of whatever nationality?

I have produced the evidence for my claim.

You want to know other stuff, stuff that is not relevant to what I have said. Go find it out for yourself.

Nodin

opo wrote: »

Correct.

And if this was happening today - the same people here would probably imply that they were ethnically cleansed and that a few dozen irish travellers were booted out at the same time for good measure.

Theres no evidence for that whatsoever.

opo

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I have produced the evidence for my claim.

You want to know other stuff, stuff that is not relevant to what I have said. Go find it out for yourself.

I am not making your wild claims dear.

If you want to believe that their are vast quantities of English tourists or some other race living in illegal camps in France - bringing a crime wave with them - that should be equally evicted - then be my guest.

Try not force your opinion down other peoples throats when you don't know the composition of these camps one way or the other.

opo

Nodin wrote: »

Theres no evidence for that whatsoever.

Are you just a post count queen or serial coat trailer?

Make a point yourself or move on. Try be original.

Nodin

opo wrote: »

Are you just a post count queen or serial coat trailer?

Make a point yourself or move on. Try be original.

As I stated earlier, you've no evidence for that post whatsoever.

opo

Nodin wrote: »

As I stated earlier, you've no evidence for that post whatsoever.

That takes you to post 7,693.

Well done you.

P. Breathnach

opo wrote: »

I am not making your wild claims dear.

Show me one wild claim that I have made, and don't call me "dear", or I will come to the view that you intend to be offensive.

... Try not force your opinion down other peoples throats when you don't know the composition of these camps one way or the other.

Do you know? Bring something to the table.

opo

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Do you know? Bring something to the table.

If I knew I would not be asking you.

I am reminded that you were the one that drew the distinction between gens de voyage - and Roma although I think you said something about Roma being amongst the gens de voyage.

If the other camps were gens de voyage then conceivably a rush to dismantle them would have sent thousands of French gypsies/Roma on the road to nowhere - as they could not be deported - so prioritising them would have been foolish.

Prioritising those who are illegal immigrants anyway would make more sense as commencing illegal camp closures (the whole point) would be complete without creating another obvious internal headache.

I am not saying that this is or isn't what is happening. I am saying that this could be happening and the Roma referred to in directives might be non-national Roma/gypsies/other as opposed to some other distinction - ethnic or otherwise.

I just don't know how you support your own claim of ethnic targetting without knowing these basic facts. For all you know 100% of the total camps populations could be ethnically Roma making such a claim of prioritising Roma for ethnicity alone pointless and unsustainable.

Voodoo_rasher

the roma s in question are arguably 'welfare tourists' to begin with. plus they have illegally built homes , without planning permission. Suppose Parisians are sick to the gills with their itinerant noisy unsightly brass-band street buskers. they won't learn english, never mind integrate. agree with sa r ko zy on this occasion, lol

caseyann

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I may have misinterpreted you but, given the tenor of your posts, perhaps people might think it was an easy mistake to make. Will you clarify things so as to put it beyond all doubt: do you like the Roma?

I know a few Roma and one particular i get on great with.So i would say i like who i know and have no opinion of the ones i dont know.Agreeing with them been moved off illegal camps and illegals been deported,and disagreeing with them not sending their kids to school,to make an effort to integrate into the country they move into.Is by no means a sign of dislike.

Nodin

opo wrote: »

If I knew I would not be asking you.

I am reminded that you were the one that drew the distinction between gens de voyage - and Roma although I think you said something about Roma being amongst the gens de voyage.

If the other camps were gens de voyage then conceivably a rush to dismantle them would have sent thousands of French gypsies/Roma on the road to nowhere - as they could not be deported - so prioritising them would have been foolish.

Prioritising those who are illegal immigrants anyway would make more sense as commencing illegal camp closures (the whole point) would be complete without creating another obvious internal headache.

I am not saying that this is or isn't what is happening. I am saying that this could be happening and the Roma referred to in directives might be non-national Roma/gypsies/other as opposed to some other distinction - ethnic or otherwise.

I just don't know how you support your own claim of ethnic targetting without knowing these basic facts. For all you know 100% of the total camps populations could be ethnically Roma making such a claim of prioritising Roma for ethnicity alone pointless and unsustainable.

So, to counter what we know from leaked official documentation, you present baseless speculation.

opo

Nodin wrote: »

So, to counter what we know from leaked official documentation, you present baseless speculation.

Nothing to offer again I note.