Cycling Ireland Website

doozerie

Lumen wrote:

It isn't though. If you have a full competition licence you usually just sign on with your race number, name and club. The race number is neither your UCI code nor your full licence number, and can only be dereferenced by Cycling Ireland who have the list of race numbers against licence numbers.

That's what I would have expected, which seems to me to make the "UCI code" redundant. As your license already identifies your race category I don't know why your date of birth is on your license at all. However, the real issue is not that your date of birth is printed on the license, it's that the UCI themselves don't treat the information contained in the UCI code with the importance that it deserves and they demonstrate this clearly with that website of theirs that I link to in my previous post. It seems that the UCI see no need to provide encryption of your date of birth when you are submitting it to that website, much like Cycling Ireland are lax about protecting login to their website and therefore the personal information stored in your profile (although in fairness to Cycling Ireland they did make a bit of an effort versus the UCI's complete lack of effort). So the UCI require that you provide them with personal details but they appear not to worry about protecting at least some of those details, which flies in the face of data protection and the laws surrounding it.

Lumen wrote:

I don't see the issue with the card carrying your name and address. If you're driving to a race (most people do) you'll have to carry a drivers licence with that information on it anyway. Regardless, having the information on your card allows the Gardai to contact your next of kin in the event of an accident.

I don't have an issue with my address being on the license/card either, although I can see that some people might. In combination with your name and date of birth though there is a lot of personal information on that license and it is the date of birth that tips it over from "useful" information into "excessive" information in my view.

Chips Lovell

I've also just noticed that my date of birth on my UCI code is actually wrong.

ktz84

el tonto wrote: »

That's the reason why I always have my CI card in my pocket when I go for a spin. Makes it easy to identify me if I get hit by a truck.

Get one of those nifty id wristbands that way you can put as much or as little information as is necessary for the gardai to be able to contact your next of kin if that unfortunate situation did arise.

The point is that you have control over how much information you wish to reveal.

Chips Lovell

ktz84 wrote: »

Get one of those nifty id wristbands that way you can put as much or as little information as is necessary for the gardai to be able to contact your next of kin if that unfortunate situation did arise.

The point is that you have control over how much information you wish to reveal.

Card has my name and address, which is about all the information I'd want for ID.

Beasty

el tonto wrote: »

I've also just noticed ....

I've just noticed that now the admins have completely removed the troll post, it might look like your Ban Hammer came down on Slideshowbob!

Sorry Bob - it wasn't for you! You're welcome to keep posting ..:D

ktz84

el tonto wrote: »

Card has my name and address, which is about all the information I'd want for ID.

Hardly the point being made is it? What I was saying is that you don't need the information on the card to allow the gardai to contact your next of kin. The fact that you use your CI card for this doesn't justify it being there in the first place.

Chips Lovell

ktz84 wrote: »

Hardly the point being made is it? What I was saying is that you don't need the information on the card to allow the gardai to contact your next of kin. The fact that you use your CI card for this doesn't justify it being there in the first place.

I never said it did. I simply said that I found it handy.

Lumen

This has turned into a completely bizarre thread.

The UCI code is used to determine nationality and eligibility for races, that's why it's on the card. The license number is used to uniquely identify you, and the name and address is useful for other purposes which you may or may not agree with.

The UCI really doesn't give a shít if you lose your wallet. If it bothers you that much, keep it in a locked safe when you're not racing, and stick the card in your back pocket when you are racing.

If you're trying to guard against the eventuality of some scummer stopping you at knifepoint in the middle of a race, emptying your pockets, working out what the UCI code means, and then setting up a bank account in your name using your Cycling Ireland membership card as a means of identification, then I suggest you have an overactive imagination or a completely warped sense of risk for someone racing in a tight bunch on open roads at >40kph.

RobFowl

Lumen wrote: »

If you're trying to guard against the eventuality of some scummer stopping you at knifepoint in the middle of a race, emptying your pockets, working out what the UCI code means, and then setting up a bank account in your name using your Cycling Ireland membership card as a means of identification, then I suggest you have an overactive imagination or a completely warped sense of risk for someone racing in a tight bunch on open roads at >40kph.

That it !!
It's the anxiety that keep getting me dropped.
Somehow it always seems to come on while going up hills though

mtbireland

doozerie wrote: »

That's what I would have expected, which seems to me to make the "UCI code" redundant.

You need your UCI code if you do any international races and even the Irish champs as the champs are CN events you get UCI points if you place.

UCI codes can be seen if you're in the rankings or most results of international races... here is our top ranked rider in the UCI Europe tour and UCI code aka DOB is shown.

ktz84

Lumen wrote: »

This has turned into a completely bizarre thread.

The UCI code is used to determine nationality and eligibility for races, that's why it's on the card. The license number is used to uniquely identify you, and the name and address is useful for other purposes which you may or may not agree with.

The UCI really doesn't give a shít if you lose your wallet. If it bothers you that much, keep it in a locked safe when you're not racing, and stick the card in your back pocket when you are racing.

If you're trying to guard against the eventuality of some scummer stopping you at knifepoint in the middle of a race, emptying your pockets, working out what the UCI code means, and then setting up a bank account in your name using your Cycling Ireland membership card as a means of identification, then I suggest you have an overactive imagination or a completely warped sense of risk for someone racing in a tight bunch on open roads at >40kph.

Who said that? I simply said that a card could easily be lost and it has a lot of valuable information on it. What I was questioning is whether all that valuable information is necessary and if it isn't then it shouldn't be on it. I, nor anyone else, ever suggested that it was likely that you we were ever going to fall victim to identity theft it just that you nor I can't know what might happen and all we can do is take reasonable steps to secure our personal information. That isn't helped when we are effectively forced to disclose alot of information on one little card.

The UCI code is used to determine your nationality:
Yeah IRL does that. The dob of birth, as has been pointed out, does not uniquely identify you so point not made. If the dob is useless for the purpose for which it was intended then it should be replaced with a better system. Simple. Just because something was always done a particular doesn't mean that always should be done that way.

Lumen

I said:

Lumen wrote: »

The UCI code is used to determine nationality and eligibility for races, that's why it's on the card. The license number is used to uniquely identify you, and the name and address is useful for other purposes which you may or may not agree with.

You said:

ktz84 wrote:

The UCI code is used to determine your nationality:
Yeah IRL does that. The dob of birth, as has been pointed out, does not uniquely identify you so point not made. If the dob is useless for the purpose for which it was intended then it should be replaced with a better system.

I repeat, the UCI code is used to determine nationality and eligibility for races based on your age. That's why the UCI code has your DOB. It is not intended to be a unique identifier. The license number is used to uniquely identify you.

doozerie

mtbireland wrote: »

You need your UCI code if you do any international races and even the Irish champs as the champs are CN events you get UCI points if you place.

UCI codes can be seen if you're in the rankings or most results of international races... here is our top ranked rider in the UCI Europe tour and UCI code aka DOB is shown.

Thanks for the link. Do you happen to know whether the date of birth from the UCI code is actually treated as a date of birth by the race organisers or is the entire code simply treated as a reference to the rider as if it were a random collection of characters? I'm still trying to understand why date of birth would be needed when registering for a race given that your race category is already printed on your license.

Your link above highlights the fact that the UCI code isn't treated as sensitive information given that that website chooses to make it publicly visible, and that is the real concern. If the rider whose information is displayed gives their consent for such personal information to be made public then there is no issue in their case, otherwise it may reveal more information about them than they would like and could breach the data protection act as a result.

RobFowl

doozerie wrote: »

If the rider whose information is displayed gives their consent for such personal information to be made public then there is no issue in their case, otherwise it may reveal more information about them than they would like and could breach the data protection act as a result.

You consent to same when applying for the licence and submitting yourself to the Rules of CI, UCI and WADA.

I have never seen any rider, manager, team official or race official express any concern at all about the UCI code before (and have worked on quite a few UCI ranked races and come in contact with a lot of high profile riders).

Of note even USA cycling issues their licences in this format and being the most litigious country in the world if there was an issue would have expected it to be highlighted there.

ktz84

Lumen wrote: »

I said:



You said:



I repeat, the UCI code is used to determine nationality and eligibility for races based on your age. That's why the UCI code has your DOB. It is not intended to be a unique identifier. The license number is used to uniquely identify you.

Thanks for the clarification. Now I understand why it's on the card. The British Cycling cards have a lot more information on them.

doozerie

RobFowl wrote: »

You consent to same when applying for the licence and submitting yourself to the Rules of CI, UCI and WADA.

I have never seen any rider, manager, team official or race official express any concern at all about the UCI code before (and have worked on quite a few UCI ranked races and come in contact with a lot of high profile riders).

Of note even USA cycling issues their licences in this format and being the lost litigious country in the world if there was an issue would have expected it to be highlighted there.

Do you really consent to having sensitive personal information made public when you apply for a cycling license? I don't think so, but it's certainly possible that I didn't spot that in the terms and conditions. I would expect something like that to be clearly highlighted in the terms.

Are you really not even slightly bothered by the fact though that the UCI treat your date of birth so casually? They don't treat it as sensitive information despite the fact that it is considered as such by most other organisations (and by the law). And as for US riders not raising this as an issue, that's their prerogative it doesn't mean that no-one else is entitled to raise it or that it is simply not an issue.

mtbireland

UCI regulations here about the licence...yawnnn... extract below about what should be on the licence.

section 1.1.024

Form of licence
The licence shall be in the form of a credit card.
It shall include the following data:
On the front
INTERNATIONAL CYCLING UNION
NAME OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION
UCI Category: UCI Code: YEAR
National Category: Number:
Surname: Date of birth:
First name: Address:
Nationality: Gender: M / F
Team:
Club:
Issued on:

RobFowl

doozerie wrote: »

Are you really not even slightly bothered by the fact though that the UCI treat your date of birth so casually? They don't treat it as sensitive information despite the fact that it is considered as such by most other organisations (and by the law). And as for US riders not raising this as an issue, that's their prerogative it doesn't mean that no-one else is entitled to raise it or that it is simply not an issue.

Honestly not even remotely bothered

mtbireland

me neither....

Slideshowbob

me neither

again, if those above are so perturbed would love to see them actually taking actions against CI / UCI and be kept up to speed on their progress

doozerie

Thanks for the link to the regulations. I've just had a quick look through them.

The age is used to determine your category for international races (I can only assume then that cycling categories may differ between countries so your cycling category on your license might make no sense in another country). That answers the question of why your date of birth, or your year of birth more specifically, is on the license. Strangely, in those regulations they list the date of birth as a separate field to UCI code, despite what appears on the actual license, which might suggest that date of birth was not originally meant to be part of the UCI code at all.

There is nothing in there that I can see that authorises the UCI, or any of their affiliated bodies, to disclose your personal information though. So while you would expect that your name appears on results sheets, there is no indication in there at all that your date of birth will be made public.

I'm repeating myself here, but it is up to each individual to decide whether it bothers them that the UCI and their representatives expose your personal data. If you don't care, then that's fine for you, but before making that decision you should consider the risks involved. Basically, make an informed decision as to whether it is an issue for you or not rather than just assume that because the UCI have done this for years it must be fine. Bear in mind that data protection laws are in place to dissuade organisations being so carefree with personal data as the UCI appear to be. Oh, and don't sneer at those who decide that it is an issue for them, that's just ignorant for the sake of being ignorant.

Slideshowbob

in my 20 years or so keeping up with cycling news etc - never once heard of a case where someone's identity theft was attributable to their UCI code

ktz84

Slideshowbob wrote: »

in my 20 years or so keeping up with cycling news etc - never once heard of a case where someone's identity theft was attributable to their UCI code

Many people who are the victim's of identity theft have no idea where the person got all their details.

Do you really want to know how easy it is to pose as someone.

CI Ireland card gives me someone's name, address & date of birth. From that I can probably get, for a small fee, their birth certificate and therefore their mothers maiden name (a standard security measure adopted by many companies). If I google their name and area I may be able to get the name of their children, family or other important dates such as children's birthdays because the children probably have facebook or bebo accounts and not much privacy added to their profile. Some of that information may allow me to guess passwords which would give me access to emails, etc from which some password for important services may be available. From their I can change their email and request a password reset on their account. Many companies use the fact that a person confirms that they have received their email (which I have just taken control off) as a means to verify that they have the right person and therefore will allow me to reset passwords and gain entry to their other services.

Think this is far fetched. Happened to someone in work recently. Try and recover your hotmail or yahoo email from someone who has stolen it and I'm telling you you will have an absolute fight on your hands to get control again.

That I'm afraid is the world we live in.

Slideshowbob

That assumes your ci licence gets into wrong hands. U could say same snout credit card. Also assumes your incapable of devising an elaborate password for email etc

ktz84

Slideshowbob wrote: »

That assumes your ci licence gets into wrong hands. U could say same snout credit card. Also assumes your incapable of devising an elaborate password for email etc

Most people don't have secure password. They have partners names, children's name or combo of name and dob. Dog's name. First car. Something that is easy to remember. So I'm afraid most people are incapable of doing as you say. Every security audit has shown that.

Even if you have your password made up of random characters it relies on companies having good security arrangements. I had my email spammed as a result of boards.ie lax security because I, in common with other people, have mostly the same password for most online services. So I'm no security zealot however that was my choice to make. CI don't give me that choice if I want to do organised cycling in Ireland and that is my main gripe.

It should be self evident that the more information that you carry around with you the more at risk you are of having your idendity stolen. So the fact that you have a driving licence (which I don't as I don't drive ) is neither here nor there in relation to this argument.

I have no item that I carry around that gives as much information as the CI card does. That's just fact.

Contrary to what you might believe I actually believe the risks are pretty small too however I would rather organisations took the security of our information much more seriously.

Ryaner

Slideshowbob wrote: »

That assumes your ci licence gets into wrong hands. U could say same snout credit card. Also assumes your incapable of devising an elaborate password for email etc

The VAST majority of people don't use complex passwords. Have a read of http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/10/10000-passwords/ which shows the breakdown of hotmail passwords. It expands out to other services too.

Lumen

Looks like CI have been busy on the website.

I just had a bit of a browse around and managed to find some useful stuff. The calendar even works.

Thanks C.I.

doozerie

They have done nothing whatsoever about the non-secure login facility on the home page though, and probably nothing about the sending of passwords via e-mails either. I've contacted them about it again but it has been a month since they said they'd address these issues so I'm not optimistic.

As a reminder to anyone that cares about safeguarding their Cycling Ireland account details while logged/logging into the website, don't use the insecure login facility on the home page nor the insecure login page linked to from the home page. Instead use the secure login facility here.

RobFowl

The log in facility seems to have been disabled and TBH is there any reason why anyone needs to log in?

Raam

RobFowl wrote: »

The log in facility seems to have been disabled and TBH is there any reason why anyone needs to log in?

To pay online?

RobFowl

Raam wrote: »

To pay online?

I don't think that facility has been active for the past 2 years.
I certainly paid on line in 2007 and 2008 but haven't been able to for the past 2 seasons

Raam

RobFowl wrote: »

I don't think that facility has been active for the past 2 years

I paid online this year.

ktz84

RobFowl wrote: »

I don't think that facility has been active for the past 2 years

I paid through the website this year

RobFowl

ktz84 wrote: »

I paid through the website this year

I must be blacklisted !

doozerie

I paid online this year too. From what I can remember they linked to a third party site to process the payment (take credit card details, etc.) - a good thing given the (lack of) quality of the security applied on their own site.

By the looks of things you can also use your login to do things like upgrade your license or transfer your club, as well as renew.

Beasty

RobFowl wrote: »

I must be blacklisted !

Defect to the vets - they'll take your money even if CI won't

wicklowvet

As a newcomer what are benefits of joining CI ?? and any point in joining both CI and IVCA if not which is better option??

paddymacsporran

Third party liability insurance when you're out on the bike, and cheaper entries to sportives and races. Pays for itself if you ride 5 or 6 events in a year.

Don't get too excited about the newsletter, I've been a member 2 years and never seen one!

By the way, cracking weather in Wicklow today, I had a spin this afternoon up to Roundwood and Laragh, was like summer out there!