What's the deal with racing?

cormpat

I race down the west of Ireland, Connacht League, Mayo League, etc. & I would say depending on the wind, climbs on the route, lenght of course etc. the avg speed for the first group off would be about 34kph?

I would race in the second group myself & in a recent race over a flat course 40km in length, our avg. speed was 37kph. However that night, we weren't caught by the scratch so it was pretty fast!

Chips Lovell

Inquitus wrote: »

What sort of solo avg speed over what sort of distance would one need to be averaging to realistically consider staying with the A4 / Slowest Group?

As Lumen said, there is a large margin for error. I wouldn't rule myself out based on solo speeds alone. What I would say is that anyone with a few months riding behind them could join a club in October and work themselves up to racing over the winter in time for the start of next season. If you're starting racing, it's half about being fit enough to stay with the bunch and half about developing the skills to ride effectively in a bunch.

Funkyzeit wrote: »

Is there a handicap system whereby if you do well in A4 you HAVE to move up to A3? Would hate to think as a newbie I'd be racing against fella's who shouldn't really be an A4 at all?

It takes a relatively small amount of results to be promoted to A3, less than for any other promotion. Bottom line is that the really good guys will get bumped quick enough.

Chips Lovell

cormpat wrote: »

I race down the west of Ireland, Connacht League, Mayo League, etc. & I would say depending on the wind, climbs on the route, lenght of course etc. the avg speed for the first group off would be about 34kph?

I would race in the second group myself & in a recent race over a flat course 40km in length, our avg. speed was 37kph. However that night, we weren't caught by the scratch so it was pretty fast!

Yes, but speeds achieved in a bunch can't be compared to what someone riding on their own would achieve.

Lumen

Funkyzeit wrote: »

Is there a handicap system whereby if you do well in A4 you HAVE to move up to A3?

Yes. You win, you get points. You get enough points, you get promoted. If you don't get promoted by the end of the season you keep half of them for the start of next year.

Funkyzeit wrote: »

Would hate to think as a newbie I'd be racing against fella's who shouldn't really be an A4 at all?

It depends on how many races they do. Some people have just turned up to a couple a year and won them. TBH you need stronger rides to attack and make races more interesting.

There is an absolutely massive difference between being able to stay comfortably with a group every race and actually winning. This is a good thing.

As far as the solo speed thing is concerned, the best approach is to spend all winter training so that you do 39kph on your own for an hour or two. Then just turn up in March, attack off the front of the race and solo to victory. Repeat a couple of times and retire a legend.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

As far as the solo speed thing is concerned, the best approach is to spend all winter training so that you do 39kph on your own for an hour or two. Then just turn up in March, attack off the front of the race and solo to victory. Repeat a couple of times and retire a legend.

Surely no normal man could do that.

Raam

cormpat

el tonto wrote: »

Yes, but speeds achieved in a bunch can't be compared to what someone riding on their own would achieve.

I misread the "solo" bit. My blind.

Blowfish

Lumen wrote: »

30kph on the flat for an hour, ish. With a large margin of error.

Really? That actually sounds suprisingly doable.

As yet another question, what's the terrain like for the races? Are they mostly flat/rolling or are there proper climbs? Does it vary between club/open races?

Beasty

Blowfish wrote: »

Really? That actually sounds suprisingly doable.

As yet another question, what's the terrain like for the races? Are they mostly flat/rolling or are there proper climbs? Does it vary between club/open races?

There are not too many circuits that are appropriate for racing, so you tend to use whatever courses you can. I know the two open races that Swords put on use 2 circuits that are also used in the Club League. Some races are on relatively flat courses, others have hills, although most of them are relatively modest. Having said that, the hill climb we are doing tonight is on one of the regular club circuits (which is also used for one of the open races). Total ascent on that hill is just over 100m over about 2.5km of road.

TTs tend to be done on flatter courses (except, of course, for hill TTs!)

Chips Lovell

Blowfish wrote: »

Really? That actually sounds suprisingly doable.

As yet another question, what's the terrain like for the races? Are they mostly flat/rolling or are there proper climbs? Does it vary between club/open races?

It is very doable. You'd be very suprised at the difference it makes to be tucked into a fast moving bunch, so much so that it often feels easier to do a race at 40kph on a circuit than do it at 30kph solo. The only time you'll actually feel the full effect of that speed is if you're on the front or off the front (or out the back!)

In my experience, club league circuits tend to be quite flat. Open races can vary, with some having a fair few hills in them, but mostly shortish ones, nothing like the Sally Gap or anything like that. But any hill can be a killer if you're going fast enough up it.

cormpat

Out of curiosity, what would the race speeds be like in the Swords & Orwell leagues compared to ours down West? Faster? slower? the same?

I know, it's a bit vague but on a flat course what would the avg speed be for the four groups in a handicapped race?

Chips Lovell

cormpat wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what would the race speeds be like in the Swords & Orwell leagues compared to ours down West? Faster? slower? the same?

I know, it's a bit vague but on a flat course what would the avg speed be for the four groups in a handicapped race?

Kind of like comparing apples and oranges, since the sizes of bunches and road quality would also come into play. But in our semi-limit group we started the season around 37kph and moved up to near 40kph by mid season.

cormpat

That's pretty fast! We have our final league race tomorrow night over a flatish course with 1 or 2 drags. I'll report back tomorrow our speed.

Beasty

el tonto wrote: »

Kind of like comparing apples and oranges, since the sizes of bunches and road quality would also come into play. But in our semi-limit group we started the season around 37kph and moved up to near 40kph by mid season.

I suspect the Swords League uses poorer quality roads and have more hills;)

Semi limit has been averaging around 35kph on the hillier courses and 37kph on the flatter ones - the fastest one we did was last week, but that was a new course, and quite damp and a bit technical, so speeds may have been down a bit. Even so, we were averaging just under 38kph when I was dropped. The pace also picks up if you are in a CP, and the faster groups catch up and carry (the remnants of) the slower groups along

Chips Lovell

Beasty wrote: »

I suspect the Swords League uses poorer quality roads and have more hills;)

Semi limit has been averaging around 35kph on the hillier courses and 37kph on the flatter ones - the fastest one we did was last week, but that was a new course, and quite damp and a bit technical, so speeds may have been down a bit. Even so, we were averaging just under 38kph when I was dropped. The pace also picks up if you are in a CP, and the faster groups catch up and carry (the remnants of) the slower groups along

I think your circuits are lumpier than hours.

As for speeding up once the catch happens, sometimes it slows down I find. With nobody chasing and nobody trying to stay away, it can often cool off for a while until the action starts on the run in to the finish.

drops

cormpat wrote: »

That's pretty fast! We have our final league race tomorrow night over a flatish course with 1 or 2 drags. I'll report back tomorrow our speed.

Is the final one not in Ballyhaunis on the 19th Sept ? I did some of the TT league and was thinking of going in Ballyhaunis as my first road race since returning to the bike.

Beasty

el tonto wrote: »

I think your circuits are lumpier than hours.

As for speeding up once the catch happens, sometimes it slows down I find. With nobody chasing and nobody trying to stay away, it can often cool off for a while until the action starts on the run in to the finish.

We have 5 groups, and there tends to be more than one "catch" each race - indeed our limit group has won 5 races, semi-limit 1, and the third group have also won some this year, meaning the scratch and semi-scratch groups have had to push all the way in a lot of races.

Normally if it's fast enough for everyone to get caught, I get dropped before the "slow-down" occurs:rolleyes:

cormpat

drops wrote: »

Is the final one not in Ballyhaunis on the 19th Sept ? I did some of the TT league and was thinking of going in Ballyhaunis as my first road race since returning to the bike.

Tomorrow night is the final of the Covey/Western Lakes League. Ballyhaunis is the Connacht RR Championships I think.

drops

cormpat wrote: »

Tomorrow night is the final of the Covey/Western Lakes League. Ballyhaunis is the Connacht RR Championships I think.

ahh sound, thanks and good luck in the race

Hungrycol

Practice speeding up out of corners as the group slows down going into a corner. For me this is a killer in a race, not that I've been to many!