Gormley does it again.

Grizzly 45

Why's that Sparks?Because I refuse to belive every bit of BS presented as "scientific fact??":rolleyes:
The orginal refusenik..Thats me.

landkeeper

a flat rate of tax and do away with the commercial tax rate
why should i pay 935 euro for my discovery as i need the extra seats for children and also need the towing capacity , for a livestock trailer amongst other things
when the farmer/part time builder up the road has exactly the same vehicle apart from the fact that he has no rear seats pays 288 euro
they emit the same emissions they weigh the same within a couple of kilos
better still do away with it alltogether and put 20cents or whatever a litre on fuel then the user pays much fairer in my book

Grizzly 45

Unregistered. wrote: »

It's not though. Nobody is forcing anybody to drive a car that produces less CO2. They are just providing an incentive for peole that are changing their cars. Hence why a straight tax would not work.

Errr ,so you wouldnt call taxing to the hilt any vechicle that isnt "green" not social engineering?
That forcing people to buy mercury filled green light bulbs instead of normal vacum bulbs,not social engineering?
That making people support "green energy" projects with their tax money,because they are inefficent in their current forms,not social engineering?
That forcing thru a totally irrevelant issue like stag hunting to 99% of the people in our parliment,while the arse falls out of the country,not social engineering???
Gimme a break!

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Why's that Sparks?Because I refuse to belive every bit of BS presented as "scientific fact??":rolleyes:

No, because you're ignoring every bit of scientific evidence produced over the past 20 years, verified and peer reviewed and endorsed by scientists on every continent and in every country.
Global warming's not a hoax Grizzly. You're confusing the Green Party in Ireland with real ecological concerns.

kildare.17hmr

Grizzly all these greener more efficiant policies have to be implimented all over the eu not just here. the new tax system for cars is great but it should have been accross the board not just new models and penalising people who drive a commercial because it suits their needs is a joke

Grizzly 45

Sparks,
somtimes you surprise me...as an intelligent academic type that you would accept 20 years of agenda driven,very questionable in some cases data sourcing and hushing up of other data that does not fit the picture as gospel!!!Not to mind that for every scientist that says there is Global warming ,there is another that says it isnt.So the community is still out on that one.Explain to me this one then...If there is global warming occuring on MARS as well,where there are not many humans or coal burning power plants,wouldnt it suggest the problem is a bit bigger than us???
Not to mind on average the planet produces obver 100 Billion metric tons of poullatant PA naturally,and us in our worst manage 17 billion tonnes PA,and suddenly Earth cant handle this??

No I am not confusing the greens with real ecologcal concerns.They are part of the problem,not part of the solution.This is becoming a new moral and religious crusade,The religion of Green.And if we havent learned what religious fanatasism and blind faith in "scientific research and facts"in the 3rd Reich there was a science of race heredity,and it was a criminal offence not to accept its findings as gospel.look where that ended up.
can do,we as humanity have learned nothing.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

for every scientist that says there is Global warming ,there is another that says it isnt.So the community is still out on that one.

No, there isn't; and no, there aren't. The scientific community is well and truly in Grizzly, global warming is an accepted scientific fact, and more, anthropomorphic global warming is an accepted scientific fact. All that's being discussed by the scientific community today is how bad it will get, how best to fix it, and how long that will take.

Go read the IPCC report or any one of the dozens of layman's explanations about it. Read any of the experts in the field on the topic.
http://www.realclimate.org
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Global_warming_skeptics

The only people still claiming it isn't real are the same ones claiming that there were WMDs in Iraq, that we don't have a problem with oil supplies or how we extract them, and that the earth is about 7,000 years old. And no, I'm not kidding on the last one.

in the 3rd Reich

Not this again. Seriously Grizzly, how many times do we have to talk about Godwin before you take the point?

landkeeper

so the likes of david bellamy and the other 18000 emminent scientists have changed their view point over global warming have they

Grizzly 45

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Grizzly all these greener more efficiant policies have to be implimented all over the eu not just here. the new tax system for cars is great but it should have been accross the board not just new models and penalising people who drive a commercial because it suits their needs is a joke

Very true,but lets put in perspective.I drive a 4litre Jeep here,and will continue to do so,as I am very proud of my "carbon footprint":D.I pay 1500euros PA road tax.In Germany we have a 4.3 litre rangerover,car tax is 500 euros pa standard ,but you pay 1euro50 at the moment for petrol.
1euro 43 for "green diesel"made from rape oil,as the German Greens didnt want people using cheaper green fuel to commute too much or change to diesel cars,which are supposedly the new earth savers.[more social engineering]

France,those somtimes most logical people.Have simply droped road tax to 75 euros for any car above 4litres.They figure those big cars are now such a rarity,it is pointless taxing them in a higher bracket,and wht they lose in tax revenue,they make up in fuel tax.

So by and large our EU neighbours are doing this the right way,drive whatever you want,you need to put fuel in it,we'll tax you at the pump,and the more you drive the more tax we get.
Here,OTOH the PTB want everything.We want you to pay,pay,pay,
Pay for road tax,pay for fuel tax,pay for a new unproven technology,inefficent "car" that suits a Green politicans Chauscescau[sic] utopian dream of a green country..
IOW we are being screwd again here.

Sparks

landkeeper wrote: »

so the likes of david bellamy and the other 18000 emminent scientists have changed their view point over global warming have they

Right out of wikipedia you can find out that the answer to that is actually yes:

Bellamy's later statements on global warming indicate that he subsequently changed his views completely. In 2004, he wrote an article in the Daily Mail in which he described the theory of man-made global warming as "poppycock".[4] A letter he published on 16 April 2005 in New Scientist asserted that a large percentage (555 of 625) of the glaciers being observed by the World Glacier Monitoring Service were advancing, not retreating[5]. George Monbiot of The Guardian tracked down Bellamy's original source for this information and found that it was Fred Singer's website. Singer claimed to have obtained these figures from a 1989 article in the journal Science, but no such article exists.[6] Bellamy has since stated that his figures on glaciers were wrong, and announced in a letter to The Sunday Times in 2005 that he had "decided to draw back from the debate on global warming".[7]

And yes, I know it's wikipedia, but there are references to the original sources there, and the point was that it's easily discoverable that he had changed his mind.

er74195

Heres one for ye all. I was thinking of converting a van to a camper van. Just rang the revenue commissioners and asked how much would it cost in VRT if I were to do this. They told me I had to convert the van first and then send on pictures to them and they would give me a price. is that daft or what. I am trying to do myself what Gormley wants us all to do and I cant get a price. So in short I convert my van first at a cost of 5 or 6 thousand and then they will give me a figure. So then if I cant afford it I should park it until I can afford the VRT or else rip it all out again. IS THAT DAFT OR WHAT?

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Here,OTOH the PTB want everything.We want you to pay,pay,pay,
Pay for road tax,pay for fuel tax,pay for a new unproven technology,inefficent "car" that suits a Green politicans Chauscescau[sic] utopian dream of a green country..
IOW we are being screwd again here.

No-one's saying that's not the case here Grizzly, but you're assuming that just because the Greens cite it as a motive that that means it's automatically not true; and that's just incorrect. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Besides which, the GP here didn't do the research that showed the problem is real (and I'm not saying the GP's ideas will do anything to stop it either, btw).

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=Sparks;67655993]No, there isn't; and no, there aren't. The scientific community is well and truly in Grizzly, global warming is an accepted scientific fact, and more, anthropomorphic global warming is an accepted scientific fact. All that's being discussed by the scientific community today is how bad it will get, how best to fix it, and how long that will take.

As you say yourself HORSE HOCKEY!

I note you did not address the questions I asked Sparks,another inconvient bunch of questions that gores the global warming ox??

And I suppose the university of Belfast has no problem then handing over their research on medival climate findings in bog oak then????Seeing that they are now under a court order of discovery to do so..Nothing to hide then???:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Not this again. Seriously Grizzly, how many times do we have to talk about Godwin before you take the point?

[/QUOTE]
Thats very scientific of you Sparks! When a inconvient historical and scientific truth occurs you try and dismiss it as irrevelant.Thats typical of the global warming myth attitude.

Sparks

BTW, how come Gormley's getting all the heat here for having the stupid idea and Dempsey's not even getting a mention as the Minister for Transport?

muckyprawn

Before anyone goes any further read this, this was sent to to me via email by the Green Party following an email I sent last night....
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/latest_news/clarification_on_commerical_motor_tax

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I note you did not address the questions I asked Sparks,another inconvient bunch of questions that gores the global warming ox??

I didn't because you're asking Frequently Asked Questions and the links I gave answer them for you.

Thats very scientific of you Sparks! When a inconvient historical and scientific truth occurs you try and dismiss it as irrevelant.Thats typical of the global warming myth attitude.

No, that's me trying to tell you to stop using Hitler and the Nazis as your argument against every single thing you don't like. At this point I'm just waiting to hear how Goebells loved him some Barrys Tea and therefore we should all be drinking Lyons...

Unregistered.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Errr ,so you wouldnt call taxing to the hilt any vechicle that isnt "green" not social engineering?

I wouldn't.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

I didn't because you're asking Frequently Asked Questions and the links I gave answer them for you.

Sparks,I could just as easily give you links to the other arguement.It proves nothing!!I am old enough to remember 40 years ago,apart from the fear of Russia having an empire from Loop head to Vladivostock,nuke war by 1998,[we came close mind, around Nov 1983],the biggest fear was another ice age in 2005!!And this was another sure scientific prediction from all known facts and backed up by well known scientists.Karl Sagen springs to mind.

No, that's me trying to tell you to stop using Hitler and the Nazis as your argument against every single thing you don't like. At this point I'm just waiting to hear how Goebells loved him some Barrys Tea and therefore we should all be drinking Lyons...

Sorry,that the fact is there is alot of historical revelance and fact,and if it is revelant and factual,I'm entitled to use it.
Seeing you are now in flippant mode...
He was apprently partial to Earl Grey.:D:D Maybe sent over by his IRISH relatives in Liverpool???Historical fact tha last bit.

Grizzly 45

Unregistered. wrote: »

I wouldn't.

Obviously..

Tackleberrywho

muckyprawn wrote: »

Before anyone goes any further read this, this was sent to to me via email by the Green Party following an email I sent last night....
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/latest_news/clarification_on_commerical_motor_tax

I hope this is true............

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

BTW, how come Gormley's getting all the heat here for having the stupid idea and Dempsey's not even getting a mention as the Minister for Transport?

Don't worry

Dempsey will be getting a letter too off me.
Our energy minister is not in touch with reality

When an agri contractor asked about the increase tax on agri diesel, he told him to use wood pellet boilers.

I as a person who have studied energy consumption and reduction as part of work and college would be laughed out of a meeting if I made a similar statement.

Unregistered.

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I as a person who have studied energy consumption and reduction as part of work and college would be laughed out of a meeting if I made a similar statement.

OT: I think you've missed the point about using wood pellet boilers.

Grizzly 45

Ah yes Mr Dempsy,our "no show because of snow" minister,off warming his tootsies in Malta in the worst Winter in decades[arent they supposed to be getting warmer??],who likes using a Gulfstream jet to fly to Derry to be picked up by his ministerial[non electric or biofuel] limo to go to a summer school in Donegal???
Funny a Gulfstream can be used for a little hop like that,but it is totally incapable with its all weather capabilities of getting efficently to Malta around Xmas to haul Mr Dempsy and family back to Ireland where he is needed and his duty was to be in a crises??Oh sorry forgot we are paying for it of course...and it is a GREEN minister we are talking about...No concept of cost or reality..:rolleyes::rolleyes:

OT: I think you've missed the point about using wood pellet boilers

I think mr Dempsy missed the knowledge to know the difference between heating oil and stuff you put in a tractor or combine harvester.Unless he is suggesting we will now convert all our farm equipment to wood gas fired engines????Now THAT would be quite Green and helpful,albiet not very efficent.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sparks,I could just as easily give you links to the other arguement.It proves nothing!

Nope, but this does:
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/syr/en/contents.html

That's not someone making stuff up on the internet, that's the final report on the work of thousands of professionally-trained scientists performing measurements that have been verified and repeated by others all round the globe. That's what you are saying is wrong; and you are saying you are right because of a remembered anecdote without a citation (and even a misspelling of the name you did give).

Sorry Grizzly, but you're very wrong on this one.

Tackleberrywho

Unregistered. wrote: »

OT: I think you've missed the point about using wood pellet boilers.

No

Ryan missed the point
There was Concractors in the audience on the brink of bust as agri diesel was been hiked.

Ryan started talking to THEM about wood pellets.

He does not live in reality.
I have never seen a Prius with a towbar yet! Although maybe his bicycle does :rolleyes:
On thread, it offers me some comfort that as i have my TA paid for the next year on my 4x4 for now i am safe

The green party have nice ideas, however i would put them on a par with highschool kids, lots of ideas and no knowhow

Ryan was born in Dublin and was educated at Gonzaga College and University College Dublin where he graduated with a Bachelor of Commerce degree


He could not know less about Green Energy! I never witness a spokesperson on Energy know so little about the topic (having attended several energy reduction seminars)
The people of Ireland "who are struggling with mortgage and loan repayments" have had enough of idiotic ideas and Green Taxes.

The Green agenda is anti-shooting and hunting, they see 4x4 Owners as RISE supporters.
Ironically they are going to make RISE the next political party as they are infuriating Rural Ireland with their ideals

For fear of getting an infraction
Unregistered , what is your thoughts on Hunting, Shooting in rural Ireland.

As this is the Shooters FORUM I hope this is an on Topic and relevant point!

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

Nope, but this does:
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/syr/en/contents.html

That's not someone making stuff up on the internet, that's the final report on the work of thousands of professionally-trained scientists performing measurements that have been verified and repeated by others all round the globe. That's what you are saying is wrong; and you are saying you are right because of a remembered anecdote without a citation (and even a misspelling of the name you did give).

Sorry Grizzly, but you're very wrong on this one.

Sparks

This bill is about affecting Hunters/farmer and hunters/builders etc.

It is about making it ilegal for Joe Soap use there Business vechicle, for going to the shop, or in my case for driving across fields.

If I were to go into pest/Vermin control (set up a company 24hour 365) I think that is the only way I could drive on commercial rate

Somewhere in the last few threads GHG and CO2 have become the argument.

Ireland's commitment to Kyoto is not in question here.

What is in question, Do i an many like I have to pay Domestic Tax if we use our vehicle for things other than pure business.

This is on a par with stopping people have more than one source of employment

When I was in school a kid took his fathers tractor to school, as he lived 3 miles away"had a licence tax and insurance" and their was no bus or alternative transport.

the Green party answer for this, move into the town!!

The Green party have a blinkered view on rural Ireland.
The idea that this is not City folk telling country folk how to live their lives is silly to say the least.

have referenced Fact "if wikipedia is Fact"

History

The party's first electoral outing was when 7 candidates contested the November 1982 general election under the Ecology Party banner, winning 0.2% of the vote. Following a name-change, they contested the 1984 European Parliament elections, with their party founder winning 1.9% in the Dublin constituency.The party continued to struggle until the general election of 1989 when the again renamed party won its first seat in parliament, the Dáil, when Roger Garland was elected in Dublin South. In the 1994 European Parliament election Patricia McKenna topped the poll for the Dublin Constituency and Nuala Ahern won a seat in Leinster. They retained their seats in 1999. In the general election of 1997 the party gained a seat when John Gormley won a Dáil seat in Dublin South East. At the general election of 2002 that it made a breakthrough, getting 6 Teachtaí Dála (TDs) elected to the Dáil with 4% of the national vote. However, in the election to the European Parliament of June 2004, the party lost both of the European Parliament seats which. In the 2004 local elections at county level it increased its number of councillors from 8 to 18 out of 883 and at town council level its number of councillors increased from 5 to 14 out of 744. However, the vast majority of its seats were lost at the 2009 council elections, including its entire traditional Dublin base, where - with the exception of a Town Council Seat in Balbriggan - it now holds no council seats at all in Dublin and only three County Council seats in total. It has about fifteen hundred members.
[edit]Organisation

cavan shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

with the exception of a Town Council Seat in Balbriggan - it now holds no council seats at all in Dublin and only three County Council seats in total. It has about fifteen hundred members.
[edit]Organisation
[/B]

I hear Councillor Frank Snow has left the party.:)
In fairness if he ran for the monster raving looney party he would have got in, he is a fierce nice chappy if not a bit misguided;)

Sparks

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Sparks
This bill is about affecting Hunters/farmer and hunters/builders etc.

Tack, I don't think Grizzly and I were in disagreement on the merits of the GP in Ireland - neither of us think much of them. The disagreement was on whether climate change was real or an invention of the GP's imagination.

rrpc

I strongly believe that the Green party has done more damage to the green agenda in this country then any other body or bodies combined.

It's an agenda that requires bringing people with you rather than bullying them into it, and in that regard they've failed miserably.

ranger4

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I can't believe this!

Gormess is really getting on my wick here. Really...........

Bad enough for folk who can't sell their vechicles as the arse has fallen out of the commercial market.

The guy who farms part time/Hunts or has another job.

technically now if you want to use a commercial vehicle for hunting you are have to pay up to €1800 extra or face prosecution under Gormless ruling

I've taken this up to the teeth.
Against Hunting, against country life. Not everybody want to drive a Prius an Sabotage Hunts
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

So if I or my father drives to the shop, or anywhere in a 4x4 or Commercial Vehicle we have to pay Good luck on that Gormless!

Lads the time has come to stand up and say to the likes of the greens etc etc enough is enough, If only people would stick together and refuse to accept this shiote by refusing payment of fines only then will thease Muppets realise that trying to implement this plan will fail as cost will far outweigh any revenue raising will be non exsisitant by non payment of fines also if people call govs bluff by beeing prepaired to spend a few weeks inside then this shoite plan would unravel but my main concern is that this is only a smokescreen and a tester for much more harder revenue generating schemes to come in Decembers budget, United we stand devided we fall, choice is upto us.