Gormley does it again.

meathstevie

landkeeper wrote: »

you can always just bite the bullet and pay private tax on it,private insurance is usually cheaper (well cheaper in my case)and you only need a nct every two years for me it cost 200 euro a year extra to keep the windows and seats if you do all the comparison sums the trouble with that is all those crewcab commercials came into the country at 50 euro to vrt them
what happens now if you want to tax them privately do you have to pay the outstanding vrt on the vehicle :eek: pass the vaseline please

That's not completely correct, I paid 700 euro vrt on my 2001 vintage english import crewcab a little over two years ago.

johngalway

bunny shooter wrote: »

Or someone in the media doing a bit more FF spin-doctoring at the expense of the Greens :eek:

Suit me down to the ground if they're turning on each other.

Tackleberrywho

meathstevie wrote: »

That's not completely correct, I paid 700 euro vrt on my 2001 vintage english import crewcab a little over two years ago.

VRT is a joke!
I paid much more than that might I tell you!

fodda

Well i doubt if any political person is the slightest bothered by global warming with all the info and misinfo around they just need any excuse to raise more cash so they dont have to change their ways.

Whatever Ireland does as already stated wont make the slightest difference to global warming, but within a few years i doubt if anybody will be driving fuel guzzlers or maybe driving at all except for needed journeys if any of us have any jobs that is.

Peak oil is the real problem and this isnt made up and is very real and in a few years time only rich countries will be able to afford oil and Ireland isnt going to be one of them, so you may aswell get rid of the 4x4 while you have the chance.

Tackleberrywho

fodda wrote: »

Well i doubt if any political person is the slightest bothered by global warming with all the info and misinfo around they just need any excuse to raise more cash so they dont have to change their ways.

Whatever Ireland does as already stated wont make the slightest difference to global warming, but within a few years i doubt if anybody will be driving fuel guzzlers or maybe driving at all except for needed journeys if any of us have any jobs that is.

Peak oil is the real problem and this isnt made up and is very real and in a few years time only rich countries will be able to afford oil and Ireland isnt going to be one of them, so you may aswell get rid of the 4x4 while you have the chance.

I applied for a job in the states last week.
peak Oil is very real.

however Tullow Oil have discovered Oil off Ghana AFAIK, never mind what is under Iraq and possibly off the coast of Ireland!

So I won't sell my 4x4 Just yet
I've only put 50,000 miles on her in 2 & 1/2 years
@30MPH

Tackleberrywho

Jesus, I just added that up

~ €9285 on diesel in the past 28 months Cripes!

fodda

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I applied for a job in the states last week.
peak Oil is very real.

however Tullow Oil have discovered Oil off Ghana AFAIK, never mind what is under Iraq and possibly off the coast of Ireland!

So I won't sell my 4x4 Just yet
I've only put 50,000 miles on her in 2 & 1/2 years
@30MPH

I do not doubt a word but as i said the facts are very real and simple.

Projected output and projected demand and the 2 cant be matched and oil companies agree with every figure.

By the way Iraq's oil production will peak in less than 7 years and the amount being classed as new dicoveries are all very expensive to extract finds and no where near what is needed to carry on as is.

As regards the states, if you go there you will be lucky as the US hasnt based it's taxation system on fuel revenues and transport use anywhere near as other countries have like Ireland for example, just as Gormless was trying or is trying to do to raise a few much needed extra pounds/euro's.

Grizzly 45

Peak oil ....Another myth!!! Explain then why there over seventy oilfields in Saudai that have been deliberatly capped,not because they are empty,they are the richer fields.It is simply again to keep prices at current levels,and to try and wean the West off it's oil depndency.
What we are running out of are socalled "light&sweet" crude fields.IOW easily drilled and accesible fields.There is still huge untapped resources in Siberia,trouble it is in the most inhospitable regions,Alaska,but the enviromentalists kick up too much about it,until GWB using common sense for once told them to stick it.
Iraq is another joke,it will take decades to get the refining equipment up and running,seeing it is virtually destroyed by neglect under Saddam,the Iran Iraq war ,and the latest action down there. Until Iraq is stable and has a viable defence force,around 2020 maybe.No sane Western oil company will spend billions on building a refinery,to have Al Quieda blow it all up again.
Not only that it is not as if ever oil company is sitting on its ass,and saying oil is the only way to go.They are investing heavily in bio fuels,hydrogen tech,,shale and coal oil extraction,alcohol mix, re Refining plastics and rubber to oil etc. The US is the "Saudai of Coal",with more modern technology oil can be reclaimed from coal alot more efficently than the stolen German patents of WW2 by the Allies ever could do.

Hydrogen and dual fuel motors will be proaby the big winners in the end.Once there is a way figured out to store hydrogen safley,as in impacts in road accidents.Electric cars are a no brainer,no hoper,except in Ireland of course.:) .It was tried by Edison around this time a 100 years ago,and the same problems then bedevil us now.

Dont belive everything people you see or read,sit down study it and listen to both sides,then make your call.BTW if you have an old 4X4 or car with a carb in it.You will still be motoring!!They are easily enough converted to dual fuel orLPG.:pac:

meathstevie

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

true these laws have always been in place but never inforced. the gards have always turned a blind eye as it is county councils job to police it, which is happening now as people are being asked to give vat numbers ect when taxing commercials

And since when are you obliged to have a VAT number to be in business ? Not all businesses are liable to VAT and none below the VAT turnover limits are liable to it.

Tackleberrywho

meathstevie wrote: »

And since when are you obliged to have a VAT number to be in business ? Not all businesses are liable to VAT and none below the VAT turnover limits are liable to it.

+1
Farms do not have VAT numbers

fodda

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Peak oil ....Another myth!!! Explain then why there over seventy oilfields in Saudai that have been deliberatly capped,not because they are empty,they are the richer fields.It is simply again to keep prices at current levels,and to try and wean the West off it's oil depndency.
What we are running out of are socalled "light&sweet" crude fields.IOW easily drilled and accesible fields.There is still huge untapped resources in Siberia,trouble it is in the most inhospitable regions,Alaska,but the enviromentalists kick up too much about it,until GWB using common sense for once told them to stick it.
Iraq is another joke,it will take decades to get the refining equipment up and running,seeing it is virtually destroyed by neglect under Saddam,the Iran Iraq war ,and the latest action down there. Until Iraq is stable and has a viable defence force,around 2020 maybe.No sane Western oil company will spend billions on building a refinery,to have Al Quieda blow it all up again.
Not only that it is not as if ever oil company is sitting on its ass,and saying oil is the only way to go.They are investing heavily in bio fuels,hydrogen tech,,shale and coal oil extraction,alcohol mix, re Refining plastics and rubber to oil etc. The US is the "Saudai of Coal",with more modern technology oil can be reclaimed from coal alot more efficently than the stolen German patents of WW2 by the Allies ever could do.

Hydrogen and dual fuel motors will be proaby the big winners in the end.Once there is a way figured out to store hydrogen safley,as in impacts in road accidents.Electric cars are a no brainer,no hoper,except in Ireland of course.:) .It was tried by Edison around this time a 100 years ago,and the same problems then bedevil us now.

Dont belive everything people you see or read,sit down study it and listen to both sides,then make your call.BTW if you have an old 4X4 or car with a carb in it.You will still be motoring!!They are easily enough converted to dual fuel orLPG.:pac:

Sorry Grizz but why you are correct on some items the "Myth" part you are 100% wrong for various reasons and one is the workings of Opec.

As regards hydrogen well the law of physics applies you cant get more out than you put in.

Oil well cheap oil used to bubble to the surface and cost very little to get out of the ground, deaper oil is very expensive and cost a lot to get out so only viable when oil prices are high. When oil prices are high then petrol and diesel are the last thing you want to worry about. First is your food, then your job which you probably wont have as all business will go to the cheapest place to cut extra costs impossed by oil price rises on transport and raw materials etc.

LongRifle

fodda wrote: »

Well i doubt if any political person is the slightest bothered by global warming with all the info and misinfo around they just need any excuse to raise more cash so they dont have to change their ways.

Whatever Ireland does as already stated wont make the slightest difference to global warming, but within a few years i doubt if anybody will be driving fuel guzzlers or maybe driving at all except for needed journeys if any of us have any jobs that is.

Peak oil is the real problem and this isnt made up and is very real and in a few years time only rich countries will be able to afford oil and Ireland isnt going to be one of them, so you may aswell get rid of the 4x4 while you have the chance.

You're a real ray of sunshine you!:D

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Peak oil ....Another myth!!!:pac:

Good man Grizz, stick it to the man!;)

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=fodda;67685672]Sorry Grizz but why you are correct on some items the "Myth" part you are 100% wrong for various reasons and one is the workings of Opec.

So educate us.Tell us whats wrong with it being a myth?

As regards hydrogen well the law of physics applies you cant get more out than you put in.

do tell,where is it violating the laws of themodynamics?[putting more energy into a project that you get out of it]
Not to mind that it use s one of the most commonest items on the planet ,water.Have you told Daimler /Mercedes /BMW this?That this isnt going to go anywhere?Seeing they have invested millions in R&D for hydrogen engines?Unless you mean in the production of hydrogen gas??In that it needs electrical power to do so?

Oil well cheap oil used to bubble to the surface and cost very little to get out of the ground

Called "light& sweet" in the oil parlance.And was my point the finding of light&sweet is becoming less.However what was deep oil exploration 20 odd years ago,is now becoming not deep and difficult anymore due to technology advancing.

,

deaper oil is very expensive and cost a lot to get out so only viable when oil prices are high. When oil prices are high then petrol and diesel are the last thing you want to worry about

Which they are not at the moment.It is around $78 per barrel,for Saudai crude,apart from the stupid price of $150 per barrel last year which was market speculation,rather than scarcity driven.However ,going by the peak oil doomsayers we should be by now paying over $200 as normal as of 2010.By and large crude has stayed a stable price,and will for a long time,as this has become a lockstep with OPEC countries and the West.We need the oil,they need our skills and technology to pump and refine it,and to provide the credit to build and maintain the plants.


.

First is your food, then your job which you probably wont have as all business will go to the cheapest place to cut extra costs impossed by oil price rises on transport and raw materials etc.

[/QUOTE]
More like both at the same time,which is why Ireland willl be in a very bad state,we import too much foodstuffs,and are on the very end of a too long supply chain.However whats that got to do with peak oil is beyond me? BUT it will make certainly for very "intresting times" to be alive in.:eek:

fodda

Grizzly..........Life's too short mate

Grizzly 45

So after peak oil and global warming and FF/Greens being voted in again and other global disasters
The Boards.ie shooters meet for a freindly group chat.:eek:

Tackleberrywho

I was getting beer (on a thursday!!) this evening, I counted 4 4x4's and 2 vans in the shop doing same, all dressed still in their work clothes.

i have no VAT number, but i would get one if I had too, register as something and start claiming back money!!!

See how that would grab them!

I currently have 2 jobs on paper, i could have 3 :D:D:D

rrpc

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Peak oil ....Another myth!!!

You may say it's a myth till you're blue in the face, but the inescapable fact is that oil is a finite resource. Another inescapable fact is that oil consumption worldwide is rising every year.

Put the two together and it really doesn't matter what you think of peak oil, those two facts are on a collision course that is getting closer with each passing year.

CJhaughey

I think this is another ideologically driven (or should that be Idiot driven) Green Idea.
What we have is an attempt to punish the people that need 4x4 vehicles because they are seen as big polluters.
The motortax system was revised by Gormley in 08 to incentivise the switch to low emission vehicles, this buggered the whole car sales up since then until they introduced the scrappage scheme. Now with a lot of older cars being scrapped the tax take has fallen from an average of €300-500 per car to in most cases €104-154, this is a huge loss to the exchequer.
Now the Govt is bust and needs to squeeze money from whoever is left standing after the recession. So the obvious target is the drivers of commercial 4x4's because as far as the greens go they are another axis of evil along with nuke power and stag hunts.
The objective is to make driving a 4x4 as difficult as possible. Already they have made it harder by virtue of the emissions based VRT system and now that people are bringing them in as commercials they want to stop that as well.
Irelands emissions have fallen off a cliff, they are a fraction of what they were back in the rip-roaring mid 00s and the green party are still ideologically opposed to the idea of 4x4 "SUV" type vehicles. Which incidentally is an imported ideology from the US where a 3 litre engine is an economy model and most SUV engines are more likely to be 6-7 litres in capacity.
I am sorry to say I voted green in the last election believing them to be worthwhile, however seeing them in action reminds me that they haven't really done anything genuinely worthwhile.

To Ministers Gormley and Ryan I raise my glass to you as wasters of the highest order, aiding and abetting Fianna Fail in defrauding the Irish people in a scale that defies comparison to any other country this size.
You have supported the wholesale pillage of our childrens future to pay for the greedy excesses of corrupt banks, in the name of green policy.
Nothing you can say or do will change that fact in my mind.
If you were men of substance you would have not supported NAMA but for the sake of a Stag hunt in North County Dublin you did.
I hope my children curse your name equally along with the Fianna Fail crooks that perpetrated this act.

BryanL

A friend was taxing a transit pick up truck yesterday, he was asked for vat number and his insurance was checked to see if it was business only and not social etc.

Hardly a high powered flash 4x4 trying to dodge any tax, just a working truck for a guy working.
Bryan

rrpc

CJhaughey wrote: »

If you were men of substance you would have not supported NAMA but for the sake of a Stag hunt in North County Dublin you did.
I hope my children curse your name equally along with the Fianna Fail crooks that perpetrated this act.

Without getting into a massive debate on NAMA (this isn't really the place), the alternative was effectively to throw this country into a recession on a worse level than the wall street crash and ensuing depression of the 30's. Although Anglo is a disaster area, letting it go would have had a knock-on effect on other banks and Ireland's ability to borrow money internationally. When a business goes bust, the effects are much wider than just the business itself and its employees, when a bank goes bust, it's ten times worse because it affects other banks and businesses in a domino relationship. NAMA mightn't have been the best solution, but instead of the economy and the banking system falling off a cliff, it slides slowly down a slope and gives time for the economy and the underlying property market a chance to recover.

Sweden went through a similar situation in the early 90's and nationalised its banks to prevent the same kind of economic suicide. It recovered relatively quickly. Letting Anglo collapse might have worked out, but it would have been a gamble of epic proportions and very difficult (at the time) to predict the effect.

As it stands, we are still nowhere near coming to grips with exactly what value if any, property based loans are actually worth because pretty much everyone was involved in it. Arnotts being a case in point. Nobody would suggest that Arnotts should be let fail when its core business is profitable and capable of keeping people off the dole. There are thousands of similar business cases that should be allowed continue, which without NAMA (or something similar) would fail immediately.

But as I said earlier, this probably isn't the place for that debate and certainly the Green party are not making things any better. I note that they are back pedalling furiously from the main topic of this thread but unfortunately for them, the cat is out of the bag :rolleyes:

rrpc

BryanL wrote: »

A friend was taxing a transit pick up truck yesterday, he was asked for vat number and his insurance was checked to see if it was business only and not social etc.

Hardly a high powered flash 4x4 trying to dodge any tax, just a working truck for a guy working.
Bryan

Most commercial insurance policies cover SDP as well as commercial driving. The insurance companies at least understand how things work :rolleyes:.

vinylrules

Very hard hitting attack on Gormley in the Indo today following his appearance on Pat Kenny show yesterday.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/treacy-hogan-dear-john-about-this-van-tax-its-not-me-its-you-2313656.html

By Treacy Hogan

Friday August 27 2010

Dear John, your dismissal of our motor-tax story ignores the shock waves it has sent through rural Ireland, a place you appear not to understand at all.
As usual, it is a case of the 'War of the Worlds' -- that is, the Green World that you inhabit, and the Real World, where most of us live, trying desperately to keep our heads above water.
A few home truths first.
The circular sent by the department of which you are in charge; a document about which you had no knowledge, urges local authorities to require the owners of commercial 4x4s and small vans to sign a declaration in the presence of a member of An Garda Siochana.
This states the vehicle will not be used, and I quote directly from the declaration: "at ANY time for social, domestic or pleasure purposes".
Furthermore, the directive states: "All applicants should be asked to complete this form."
Your department issued this directive. You are in charge of the department. The directive is ordering local authorities to force all owners of commercial 4x4s and small vans to sign this declaration.
So in essence, you, John, are telling these owners they cannot use their vehicle "at ANY time for social, domestic or pleasure purposes".
This is not a media invention.

Grizzly 45

rrpc wrote: »

You may say it's a myth till you're blue in the face, but the inescapable fact is that oil is a finite resource. Another inescapable fact is that oil consumption worldwide is rising every year.

Put the two together and it really doesn't matter what you think of peak oil, those two facts are on a collision course that is getting closer with each passing year.

Yeah,it is a finite resource all right.But worry about it in 150 years or so..
You planning on being around that long???
Same thing about global warming,most of us will be dead or in the process of checking out anyway.Please dont give us any stuff about future generations or whatever.Did anyone give a toss about us 100 years ago??.The famous line in the Terminator[1984] film springs to mind,from Sarah Connors waitress colleuge "Dont worry honey..I a 100 years who'll give a f**k?"

Yeah if NAMA is such a great sucess ,why has our international credit rating just been dropped to a AA neg rating?? That affects our international borrowing somthing firece.Maybe this will work,more than likely not..As the same incompetants are still in charge of the system.
Untill ther Irish people see somone being led out of court in handcuffs Madoff style for this mess,no one will feel the banks are trustworthy.
But that wont happen ..ever! As you can be assured FF/FG/Greens/Labour /SF etc TD and senators are soo into the banks with personal and party loans and other shennanings ,that if the corporate heads go,they will take down the political class of Ireland with them.FACT!As it is illegal for TD's and Senators to be bankrupt and hold office.How many do you think would survive if the banks foreclosed on them ,for their outstanding loans??;)..We are not a country anymore ,we are a banking system that has a country tacked onto it.MO it would be better now to just let the whole rotten,corrupt edifice of Ireland come crashing down,and we start afreash at zero hour with a second republic.

fodda

Grizzly peak oil and global warming are completley seperate, global warming i dont know if anyone has a clue and peak oil is a very real thing the same as peak everything is coming to a head one reason why your ammo is starting to cost more maybe.

One simple way of explaining it is 10 years ago there was probably only 1 billion after the earth's resources but today you may have 4 to 5 times that amount all wanting what you and me may have and accessable places of the planet only have so much of what we all want.

Simple case of supply and demand.

Riamfada

fodda wrote: »

Grizzly peak oil and global warming are completley seperate, global warming i dont know if anyone has a clue and peak oil is a very real thing the same as peak everything is coming to a head one reason why your ammo is starting to cost more maybe.

One simple way of explaining it is 10 years ago there was probably only 1 billion after the earth's resources but today you may have 4 to 5 times that amount all wanting what you and me may have and accessable places of the planet only have so much of what we all want.

Simple case of supply and demand.

So what your saying is there are too many people and we need to depopulate the planet by about 60-70%.

Grizzly 45

fodda wrote: »

Grizzly peak oil and global warming are completley seperate, global warming i dont know if anyone has a clue and peak oil is a very real thing the same as peak everything is coming to a head one reason why your ammo is starting to cost more maybe.

More like scarcity than cost.Thats because Govt contracts pay better than civillian demands,especially with a war going on.

Simple case of supply and demand

.
Fact the demand is there so is the supply,just harder to get to,at the moment.

Grizzly 45

Grimes wrote: »

So what your saying is there are too many people and we need to depopulate the planet by about 60-70%.

Funnily enough the planet seems to manage that one itself.Usually by plauges or somthing of that nature.

rrpc

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Yeah,it is a finite resource all right.But worry about it in 150 years or so..
You planning on being around that long???

If you believe oil will last another 150 years, you've your head in the sand. All the currently producing (and that includes ones that are on hold) wells have very accurately measured reserves. The only imponderable is how much is yet to be taken out of new wells (and the number of them over the last couple of decades is very small indeed).

Yeah if NAMA is such a great sucess ,why has our international credit rating just been dropped to a AA neg rating??

I never said it was a success. I said it was one of a bad lot of options, the alternative to which was a terrible option.

As you can be assured FF/FG/Greens/Labour /SF etc TD and senators are soo into the banks with personal and party loans and other shennanings ,that if the corporate heads go,they will take down the political class of Ireland with them.FACT!As it is illegal for TD's and Senators to be bankrupt and hold office.How many do you think would survive if the banks foreclosed on them ,for their outstanding loans??;)..We are not a country anymore ,we are a banking system that has a country tacked onto it.MO it would be better now to just let the whole rotten,corrupt edifice of Ireland come crashing down,and we start afreash at zero hour with a second republic.

You're contradicting yourself. If the banks failed there would be nobody to foreclose, so there's a motive to let them go if you were looking for one. I doubt if that were to happen that we'd really be concerned about a few politicians having their debts written off. We'd be more concerned with actually finding any cash to keep ourselves in tins of beans and slices of toast :rolleyes:. It's not as though we don't have examples from the past as to what happens when banks fail.

fodda

Grimes wrote: »

So what your saying is there are too many people and we need to depopulate the planet by about 60-70%.

Well that may happen whether we have any say in it or not.

fodda

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Fact the demand is there so is the supply,just harder to get to,at the moment.

Agreed and getting harder compounded by the wests financial system falling apart together with their economies allowing cash rich nations to buy up any surpluses or as much as they possibly can, so changing the balance of power maybe?

Where is Ireland in all this.........who?