Gormley does it again.

Grizzly 45

rrpc wrote: »

If you believe oil will last another 150 years, you've your head in the sand. All the currently producing (and that includes ones that are on hold) wells have very accurately measured reserves. The only imponderable is how much is yet to be taken out of new wells (and the number of them over the last couple of decades is very small indeed).

SIGHH !!! I can see another "is Global warming real because X number of scientists say it is and Y number of scientists say it isnt" type discussion here again.Just change scientist for oilmen.:rolleyes:.Yes,for the third time from "light&sweet" wells and fields.Est reserves inthe US alone in shale oil 2 TRILLION barrels,in Colarado and Utah.THats EIGHT times Saudais reserves.Canada has the worlds second largest oil reserves.Thats BTW extractable reserves.

I never said it was a success. I said it was one of a bad lot of options, the alternative to which was a terrible option.
You're contradicting yourself. If the banks failed there would be nobody to foreclose, so there's a motive to let them go if you were looking for one. I doubt if that were to happen that we'd really be concerned about a few politicians having their debts written off. We'd be more concerned with actually finding any cash to keep ourselves in tins of beans and slices of toast :rolleyes:. It's not as though we don't have examples from the past as to what happens when banks fail.

However,some of the financial brains seem to think that NAMA was the nucelar option,and our Govt is being very coy as usual on telling us the truth on what were the other options.
Reading me wrong RR.Nobody gives a toss what WE think.It is what THEY think and will DO to keep their asses in mercs and perks.But in a way I dont blame them either,WE ALL got too damn greedy and stupid with credit and easy money.It was going to have to be paid back somtime and all parties end somtime.Dont have to tell me about the depression.:rolleyes: I had two parents and one grandparent who experianced it first hand in both Weimar Germany and NYC in the 20s and 30s.My grandfather before he died came to Ireland for a last visit and saw the Celtic tiger boom first hand ,as he had been here in the 1960s to set up a factory here.His comment was ,when the last one ended in bad times for Ireland it was 30 years of misery.This one will be 90 years of misery for Ireland.

and if to prove my point about us being foolish with money.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/david-quinn-moral-bankruptcy-is-cause-of-credit-crisis-2313657.html

Sparks

Seems this kind of discussion is selling papers today as well.

Not sure I can even see the topic of shooting from this far away anymore, btw...

Grizzly 45

Where is Ireland in all this.........who?

fodda

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Meaning as the earth's resources get more expensive so do the products made with them and any country that hasnt really got an economy or any finances to purchase the raw materials or finished products will just fall by the wayside.

The goverment needs finances to run the infrastructure you require so they have to raise the money from somewhere ie. YOU!

If they dont get it from your 4x4 they will get from YOU elsewhere.

thelurcher

rrpc wrote: »

Most commercial insurance policies cover SDP as well as commercial driving. The insurance companies at least understand how things work :rolleyes:.

I wouldn't like to be the one to test this out - you're signing a declaration saying that you will NOT use the vehicle for SDP - you then expect the likes of Quinn to pay out on a claim..........:rolleyes: a bit naive to say the least.
Just because they take your money doesn't mean that they will pay out or that you're covered.

I heard that there were around two dozen vans stopped entering CIT during the week - they were all told that they have to sign the declaration and change their tax and insurance - the greens are a real class act alright - picking on students sitting their repeats - how fu*&^%g low can you go.
2nd hand story so couldn't find out who was doing the stopping or if the remaining commercial tax is refunded etc.

Don't you have to have turnover of 25k or something to get a VAT number - even still as I say above - you won't be insured - get stopped with the dog and gun in the back on a Sunday morning and try explaining your way out of it - the gardai won't turn a blind eye if you aren't insured.

I'm keeping the use of the pickup to a minimum for the next few weeks to see how this plays out - no point being forced to make the change-over before I have to - and if we put enough pressure on our TD's and this gets sorted then I'd guess there would be no going back if you had changed.

cavan shooter

You hit the nail on the head....The long and the short of it is simple The government needs money and therefore tax, if they thought they could tax fresh air they would do it and label it an indirect tax on use.

homerhop

I have a golf van, taxed commercial and insured private. Don’t have a vat no but I do use it for work purposes. It’s my only mode of transport. Where the hell do I stand? :mad:

Grizzly 45

fodda wrote: »

Meaning as the earth's resources get more expensive so do the products made with them and any country that hasnt really got an economy or any finances to purchase the raw materials or finished products will just fall by the wayside.

The goverment needs finances to run the infrastructure you require so they have to raise the money from somewhere ie. YOU!

If they dont get it from your 4x4 they will get from YOU elsewhere.

Well seeing that we dont manufacture much here anyway.By that I mean taking a raw material product and refining it into somthing usable,not assembling things and shipping it out.It will be a moot point.
Er Fodda they get money out of us ALL,in anyand every way possible...Ever hear of stealth taxes? Trouble is you can just get so much out of somone ,before it stops.We love doing it bass ackwards in Ireland,where all these taxes should be brought in the good times when money was plentiful,no do it when things are rotten.
"A country trying to tax itself out of a recession is like a man with both feet in a bucket trying to lift himself up by the handle."
[Winston Churchill]

thelurcher

fodda wrote: »

Meaning as the earth's resources get more expensive so do the products made with them and any country that hasnt really got an economy or any finances to purchase the raw materials or finished products will just fall by the wayside.

The goverment needs finances to run the infrastructure you require so they have to raise the money from somewhere ie. YOU!

If they dont get it from your 4x4 they will get from YOU elsewhere.

cavan shooter wrote: »

You hit the nail on the head....The long and the short of it is simple The government needs money and therefore tax, if they thought they could tax fresh air they would do it and label it an indirect tax on use.

Very true - but the point here is who they're targeting. I know loads of tradesmen who had to sell off the car when things went downhill - but they obviously needed the van or jeep for what work was left so they use that as well now for the family. Simply put - they're screwed.

Spread the burden evenly - we all benefit from a decent infrastructure - not just the gun toting hillbillies like me but even gormley on his bike.
Put a tax on bikes - they're using the roads too and the simpletons take up a lot more room on the road than me in my pickup.
But no he increases the tax load on us and gives tax breaks during a recession to people buying a bike

Kess73

rrpc wrote: »

Seriously folks, I don't see the point of getting all upset about this. The man has a political death wish and is digging like fury in that hole he's in.

Can we not just sit back and watch the ensuing motorway pileup that the Greens are now?

Why should Gormless care though if he gets voted out?

He will still keep many of his pensions, salary, perks etc for the rest of his life, and he will never know what it feels like to be short of cash or have to juggle a household budget etc.

Grizzly 45

Simply put...The Greens are too expensive to have in Govt,seeing that they werent even elected by us,and have no mandate therefore to goven,it's time they went.There is a depression on out there you know,we cant afford any luxuries like Green follies,or politicans.Seeing ol Gormless travel bill was 200k.He does put up some mileage on that bike of his!Now would he please get on it,and cycle off with the rest of his party into the sunset,prefably via and into the Atlantic??

Mr Mole

Bet none of you ever saw the gormless mob put their bikes into another Garda car to make room for themselves in their Ministerial Prius?;)

rrpc

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

SIGHH !!! I can see another "is Global warming real because X number of scientists say it is and Y number of scientists say it isnt" type discussion here again.Just change scientist for oilmen.:rolleyes:.Yes,for the third time from "light&sweet" wells and fields.Est reserves inthe US alone in shale oil 2 TRILLION barrels,in Colarado and Utah.THats EIGHT times Saudais reserves.Canada has the worlds second largest oil reserves.Thats BTW extractable reserves.

Don't know where you're getting your figures from Grizzly, but the Middle East accounts for 65% of the world's proven oil reserves, North America has only 3% :eek:. Of the almost 90 million barrels a day that the world is currently using, the US consumes a quarter of it and the Chinese are rapidly heading towards another quarter. That's the real worry because as yet the Chinese are nowhere near western usage of oil per capita, but at their rate of growth, they will have far outstripped the rest of the world in a very short time. This is why estimates of when peak oil will happen are so varied.

However,some of the financial brains seem to think that NAMA was the nucelar option,and our Govt is being very coy as usual on telling us the truth on what were the other options.

If you mean Shane Ross? That man has made so many U-turns, he must need a Sat Nav to get dressed in the morning

Patrick Kielty has his own theory, go to 5:30 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7l-0Th1oDM

BryanL

thelurcher wrote: »

Put a tax on bikes - they're using the roads too and the simpletons take up a lot more room on the road than me in my pickup.
But no he increases the tax load on us and gives tax breaks during a recession to people buying a bike

Oh that's low,real low:eek::eek::eek:

That's the last time I take you on the crossbar to Kerry.

Unregistered.

homerhop wrote: »

I have a golf van, taxed commercial and insured private. Don’t have a vat no but I do use it for work purposes. It’s my only mode of transport. Where the hell do I stand? :mad:

If you have it taxed and insured both for commercial or private use then you will never have a problem. Simple.

bunny shooter

Taxed my van this morning and no surprises :cool:

Unregistered.

bunny shooter wrote: »

Taxed my van this morning and no surprises :cool:

As it should be, there hasn't been any changes nor have any changes been announced to the motor tax!

Boiled-egg

It sums up the Green Party. Every time I hear them preach from the moral high ground I want to puke. Only good thing about this government is that everyone now knows how
much spineless and incompetent the greens are.
There heading the same direction as the PD's

Grizzly 45

Unregistered. wrote: »

If you have it taxed and insured for both commercial and private use then you will never have a problem. Simple.

Which is a legal impossibility.It MUST be either commerical or private with the appropriate insurance and road tax.You cant have a private car tax on a commercial vechicle.It is either,or.
Guess you dont own a car/or van then Unregd??

Grizzly 45

rrpc wrote: »

Don't know where you're getting your figures from Grizzly, but the Middle East accounts for 65% of the world's proven oil reserves, North America has only 3% :eek:. Of the almost 90 million barrels a day that the world is currently using, the US consumes a quarter of it and the Chinese are rapidly heading towards another quarter. That's the real worry because as yet the Chinese are nowhere near western usage of oil per capita, but at their rate of growth, they will have far outstripped the rest of the world in a very short time. This is why estimates of when peak oil will happen are so varied.

RR,TRY and understand the difference here.The Saudai fields and the middle east and wherever else we have in the World are easily extractable,producing fields.That is why the Oil men call them "Light and Sweet crude oil.
Those fields are running low,but will NOT be pumped dry for at least another 40 years plus.People make the mistake and are encouraged to think that the oil producing regions are the only places on the planet that will hold oil.As I said there is more oil in the US and Canada than in Saudai.It is just in a different format,and somwhat costlier and more unenviromentally friendly to dig and refine.This is shale
oil.
http://dailyreckoning.com/oil-shale-reserves/ good history and process of how it works.
http://ostseis.anl.gov/guide/oilshale/

http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/energy-overview/oil-shale/


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2178rank.html
The areas where this oil is also federally controlled govt land,so there is nothing stopping the US from going ahead and extracting it.
IF things were so bad,dont you think the US would be well on the way to starting to produce its own oil?Rather than waste billions ostensibly fighting for oil in Iraq???[Another great myth too]

If you mean Shane Ross? That man has made so many U-turns, he must need a Sat Nav to get dressed in the morning

On that I will agree with you.:D

fodda

Grizzly you would be a great man for clearing a pub.:D

Light and sweet crude are light crude oils which can easily be distilled (cheaply) these are anywhere in the world, some deep and expensive to get out, some on the surface although all this oil has long been already found and in production.

Heavy crude is either like the stuff that washes up on the beach after an oil spill to the extremely bitumin types similar to the tar sands of Canada. These are also found on the surface and deep underground BUT are more expensive to distill and and get up from the ground.

Any type of oil that is deep underground or under the sea is obviousley more expensive and not as cost effective as surface oil. Heavy crude like the tar sands of Canada has to be steamed out of the ground thus requiring large amounts of energy to make steam to dissolve the heavy crude so expensive........so only viable when oil prices are high, i think it has to be above $70 per barrell but because oil companies know that oil will go above $200 per barrell they have never stopped fetching the stuff out and know they will recover costs later.

And it gets even more boring.....

Point is most western countries have an oil based revenue and economy, and they will be most affected...unlike China etc......changing over to renewables should have started 20+ years ago but human nature etc

Basically we are all f******:)

Grizzly 45

So Fodda..Tell us oil today is appx $75 per barrel,it hit $150 last year rather by speculation than scarcity.Shouldnt the oil companies be now starting to refine shale??Oh yeah GWB signed in 2006 a act stating that the US should start work on refining shale.
So why isnt crude over $200 a barrel yet?It should have been by the peak predictions two years ago??

China is going Western .it is still a communist regime in name,but will become the biggest capitalist country on the planet within the next 20 years.It will have the exact problems we have only 100% worse ...

20 years ago,the world and the technology wasnt there for alternative power sources,nor did we have the new boogeyman of global warming and peak oil.Nuke war was still the biggie,along with a new ice age.....Frankly we are looking at old ideas and adding new twists and technology to it.

Yeah we are all fecked..But not from what we think it will actually be in the topics here.:)

fodda

Dunno Grizzly but it is easy to understand, it's not about how much oil there is it's about how much it costs and if you can supply the demand.

Some countries have strong solid economies making things or selling raw materials. Ireland has sod all, any industry is foreign investment whose profits are returned to their country and invested elsewhere.

Ireland has natural resouces in land per person so should be rich in excess food production, wind and tidal resources, and fishing, but they gave the fishing away and anything else hasnt been developed or is ruled by other countries so it is a mess.

Goverments need money for the infrastructure you demand but waste that money so then they try scams to raise more. You lot blame the greens cause you see them as the enemy, but tomorrow it will some other joker playing the same scam simply cause they need money to run the country in a way they you require.

The future simply is a drop in living standards or more taxation but whatever happens because of costs you can say goodbye to leisure car travel.

Grizzly 45

Ireland has sod all, any industry is foreign investment whose profits are returned to their country and invested elsewhere.

Not that they will be coming much here either,when the East block can outsmart us ,work cheaper,and are better educated.Three things we as a nation will have to catch up with fast.

Ireland has natural resouces in land per person so should be rich in excess food production, wind and tidal resources, and fishing, but they gave the fishing away and anything else hasnt been developed or is ruled by other countries so it is a mess.

Yeah,well we took the EUs 30 pieces of silver and sold the quotas didnt we??Unless we can compete with Holland or places like that and start mass producing,very cheaply,which wont happen and have an export market,which wont happen either.We wil stay in that mess.

Goverments need money for the infrastructure you demand but waste that money so then they try scams to raise more

Simply because it has been dole outs from the EU over the last 30 years,without really any control from Europe on how it was spent.

.

You lot blame the greens cause you see them as the enemy, but tomorrow it will some other joker playing the same scam simply cause they need money to run the country in a way they you require.

Put it lie this.It is grand to be Green,when there is money in the bank,you live in Nonreality Ave, Dub 4,you have a steady job,you can commute with a good bus and LUAS line or take the bike to work,and buy your organicly grown veggies in your little quaint corner shop,run by a vegan Lituanian Nigerian,transexual militant lesbian.Then you can pontificate over wind power,wave power and how brutal those rednecks are out in the countryside hunting poor foxie woxie and the timid stags while you drive off to do so in your more polluting Prius than my 4litre Cherokee. IOW this was a great party for this when we were flush with cash,and could afford such fancies.
However in the really real world post celtic Tiger Ireland.Being a Green in power and coming up with these crackpot ideas costs US TAXPAYERS MONEY!! Everything the Greens have suggested of their own agenda has cost money or jobs.Recycling,cost money,the lightbulbs cost money and are now a vertiable health hazard.Putting bus and bike lanes on roads leading into our cities,that were three lane and had a quick traffic flow are now choking,not to mind there is never a sodding bus or bike on the damn things.Green Fuel tax,as if we are not paying enough road tax as it is.God help the Irish Govts if the Irish motorist didnt exist.:rolleyes:
And the final and ultimate point of the hyprocrisy of Gormley ,and iNMHO shows the proof that the Greens Do NOT want people driving a certain type of car.
The LEXUS Dual power SUV. Remember that one.It works exactly as a Prius does,but the Greens didnt want to give it the taxbreaks as the Prius!! Same technology,bigger ,non politically correct car. QED!!
We could take some schadenfreude if we elected them in ,but we didnt,they were foisted on us by another little crook who could talk BS all day,and got out when he knew the bread for the circus was running out.:mad:

The future simply is a drop in living standards or more taxation but whatever happens because of costs you can say goodbye to leisure car travel.

Sorry mate.That wil be both in Ireland!!
Leisure travel by car in Ireland....Thats a good one!!:rolleyes:

Unregistered.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Which is a legal impossibility.It MUST be either commerical or private with the appropriate insurance and road tax.You cant have a private car tax on a commercial vechicle.It is either,or.
Guess you dont own a car/or van then Unregd??

See edit.

tonysopprano

See from yesterdays Indo that Gormless was pulled over expenses between 2002 and 2007 before he was a minister, where he submitted expense claims for Christmas Eve and New Years Eve, and when questioned his defence for these FALSE claims was that it was ok because his claims were always small.

Typical hypocrisy

Jonty

tonysopprano wrote: »

See from yesterdays Indo that Gormless was pulled over expenses between 2002 and 2007 before he was a minister, where he submitted expense claims for Christmas Eve and New Years Eve, and when questioned his defence for these FALSE claims was that it was ok because his claims were always small.

Typical hypocrisy

So by that hypotheses, I only do small mileage in my commercial 4WD, so therefore I won't bother taxing it?:D

4gun

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.
IF things were so bad,dont you think the US would be well on the way to starting to produce its own oil?Rather than waste billions ostensibly fighting for oil in Iraq???[Another great myth too]

just out of curiosity
what were they fighting for out there so? to liberate the Iraqis :rolleyes:

Grizzly 45

Dont ask me ...I'm just a civvie;).
However one I would say is simply power projection in the Middle East. Iraq is smack bang in the middle East.It border on ,Iran,Kuwait,Saudai,Jordan,Syria,and Turkey.
The only country out there that is,more or less friendly to the West is Isreal,and it's in a bad location to shift armies about.
So IMO,what better way to frighten,annoy and show force for the West but to have an oil rich,whenever it gets working again, strong pro West ally in the middle East that sits at the cross roads.Proably also ,a saftey valve for the Arab countries to dump their hothead whabbists into to fight Jihad against the Western crusaders,without upsetting the nice comfy life style of the house of Saud too much.
Trouble with the US on this was we won the war and hadnt a clue on winning the peace,or even understanding how Iraqui society functioned. Electronic intelligence is never going to be a subsitute for Human intelligence on the ground..
Not to mind putting blithering idiotic pencil pushers in charge of the situation like Paul Bremer,:mad:who goes off and disbands the Iraqui army and police,the glue which held the place together ,which caused another decade to be added onto this mess.No doubt it is alot more complex,but thats just what I think.
However ..HINT for all our builders sitting around doing nothing...Plenty of work out there lads,if you can get into the Green zone.:D

Grizzly 45

Motorists facing higher fuel bills from proposed new tax
22 August 2010 By Niamh Connolly Political Correspondent

Motorists are facing a new tax on petrol and diesel to raise revenues for road maintenance.

Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey is considering the new proposals as an alternative to the tolling of national roads.

The minister told The Sunday Business Post that he was examining proposals for the new tax which would incorporate motor taxes into a single ‘‘all-in charge’’ which he said would be more environmentally sustainable.

Dempsey signalled his opposition to the tolling of national roads, which was one of the key revenue-raising measures proposed in a Local Government Efficiency Review commissioned by Minister for the Environment John Gormley.

‘‘The benefit of the tolling the national roads is to raise money, and that’s certainly true, but an alternative that’s been put tome is to move away from all of these motor taxes and put the tax on petrol and diesel as an all-in charge," he said.

Dempsey said such a tax had ‘‘advantages in being very transparent, very open, and it means you pay for the amount of travel you do through that particular tax.

It could also have environmental positives, in that it might reduce the short journeys that people take in their cars," he said.

‘‘I know people pay for petrol, but if you were paying that much more for it you might decide that, instead of doing the three of four kilometres to work, you might bike or walk."

He said this would be ‘‘particularly helpful’’ around cities and larger towns, ‘‘and would tie in with the Sustainable Travel document’’.

He added that the tolling of national routes ‘‘would be considered’’, but that motorway tolling was introduced on the basis that there would always be an alternative national route available to motorists as a matter of government policy.

‘‘That was one of the key principles on which it was based. It would not be easy to maintain that key principle if you decided you were going to start tolling roads all over the place. ‘‘I’d be very reluctant to move from that basic principle.

‘‘As somebody involved in the initial policy on tolling, I have always argued that, if you don’t want to use the toll road, you have an alternative.

That’s an argument that people can’t overturn, or can’t answer," he said.

Dempsey said he had yet to examine fully the details of the proposal for an all-in motor tax that was put to him by a number of groups, including the Road Haulage Association.

He could not estimate at this stage what extra charge would be levied on motorists. ‘‘Certainly, it has advantages but, at this stage, I’ve no idea how much it would put on the litre of petrol, but it’s certainly well worth looking at. It has potential," he said.