KBC Tracker Mortgage

fiz

I received one of these letters and have been advised to wait until end of March for further information. I am just wondering are there people here who received a letter and then were told they were not in the scope?

Also we bought a second property again mortgaged through KBC probably applied for mortgage around February 2008 mark has anyone else approached bank about tracker around this date. We drew down around May 2008.

SteM

So I went to check my bank account this morning and noticed that the mortgage payment was much less than normal. I had received a letter from KBC a few months ago to say that my mortgage may have been one of the ones effected and was under review. I haven't received any other letter from them since then but came across this piece from the Indo

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/kbc-tracker-customers-now-on-correct-interest-rate-bank-confirms-36631152.html

so I'm guessing that my mortgage was one of the ones effected. Anyone know how this will work going forward? Will there be a lump sum due back for the 10ish years of being on the wrong rate?

CeilingFly

SteM wrote: »

So I went to check my bank account this morning and noticed that the mortgage payment was much less than normal. I had received a letter from KBC a few months ago to say that my mortgage may have been one of the ones effected and was under review. I haven't received any other letter from them since then but came across this piece from the Indo

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/kbc-tracker-customers-now-on-correct-interest-rate-bank-confirms-36631152.html

so I'm guessing that my mortgage was one of the ones effected. Anyone know how this will work going forward? Will there be a lump sum due back for the 10ish years of being on the wrong rate?

You are in for a very nice surprise.

I guess you got letter dated 5th Jan and that you originally took out a tracker mortgage and then responded to KBC's regular unsolicited "special offer" fixed rate flyers that gave you less than two weeks to agree or the special offer would be invalid.
Or you took out/applied for a fixed rate mortgage between Nov 2006 & Feb 2008 and it should have rolled on to a tracker.

All those affected were to be returned to tracker on their March payment. This is now your monthly payment going forward until there is a change in the ECB rate.

You will receive a letter in the next few days - seems they have been posted, (some people have received them) but current weather is causing delays. This confirms you are back on tracker and gives some more details.

Then they are saying another letter by end of march will detail the refund due. This, if going by a previous group) will contain a large part of the refund and then a final letter will issue a few weeks later closing it all off with any balance refund/compensation.

On a ballpark figure, you are looking at approx €12-€13,000 per €100,000 of mortgage as an average refund assuming a 25+ year term and tracker being due back to you in 2010.

So if your balance was €300,000 in 2010 when you went onto standard variable, you will see a refund of about €35-€40,000 (and I'm purposely underestimating this - it could be as high as €20k per 100k balance depending on various factors)

It could be a nice day to book that sun holiday

SteM

Or you took out/applied for a fixed rate mortgage between Nov 2006 & Feb 2008 and it should have rolled on to a tracker.

Cheers, this would have been my situation alright.

Will wait for the snow to die down and give them a call next week, might splash out on a loaf of bread in the mean time

CeilingFly

SteM wrote: »

Cheers, this would have been my situation alright.

Will wait for the snow to die down and give them a call next week, might splash out on a loaf of bread in the mean time

You'll have the letter explaining it all by then. Your new rate is 1.25% unless the mortgage was over 500k. (0.99% in that case)

Let's out it this way - I'm looking forward to an €80,000 total refund + compensation. Due to how calculations work out, part will reduce the balance and part will be a cheque - in my case I'm guessing about 65k cheque.

I booked my June holiday on 10th Jan when the initial letter came in the door.

peppythepew

I called KBC last week to query something on our annual statement and found out we also had been dropped to the tracker rate for March. We had been in receipt of the letter dated 5th Jan but honestly thought it was just a generic letter that everyone had gotten.

It turns out we took out a tracker and then fixed it for 2 years . When the fixed rate was up, we should have been put back in the tracker but we were instead put on the SVR. We knew we had lost a tracker mortgage but thought it had happened when we remortgaged from First Active, we didn't know we still had he tracker with KBC. It's come as a complete shock!

CeilingFly

peppythepew wrote: »

I called KBC last week to query something on our annual statement and found out we also had been dropped to the tracker rate for March. We had been in receipt of the letter dated 5th Jan but honestly thought it was just a generic letter that everyone had gotten.

It turns out we took out a tracker and then fixed it for 2 years . When the fixed rate was up, we should have been put back in the tracker but we were instead put on the SVR. We knew we had lost a tracker mortgage but thought it had happened when we remortgaged from First Active, we didn't know we still had he tracker with KBC. It's come as a complete shock!

And the nicest shock you could get too.

Wait til the next shock when you get that cheque in the post. You'll be pinching yourself - even though it is your own money you are getting back

peppythepew

It's so much to take in, it's very overwhelming. My dh was made redundant during the last 9 years also. He was the only earner as we had 3 young kids. His take home pay was €1800pm and we still managed to pay our mortgage of over €1K pm from this. We were completely broke for years. We found out afterwards we had been incorrectly advised by social welfare and should have been in receipt of FIS during those 2 years also. We weren't backdated.

I just can't believe what we went through was so unnecessary!

CeilingFly

peppythepew wrote: »

It's so much to take in, it's very overwhelming. My dh was made redundant during the last 9 years also. He was the only earner as we had 3 young kids. His take home pay was €1800pm and we still managed to pay our mortgage of over €1K pm from this. We were completely broke for years. We found out afterwards we had been incorrectly advised by social welfare and should have been in receipt of FIS during those 2 years also. We weren't backdated.

I just can't believe what we went through was so unnecessary!

From a very strict legal perspective, they did nothing wrong, but it was unfair and the Central Bank forced them to accept the fairness route

If it was over 1k at 4.5%, then it would suggest a mortgage of circa 200k over 30 years.
That would mean a refund of about 25k-35k + compensation. Part of the refund (20%-30%) will probably be in a reduced mortgage balance (its a complicated calculation) and the rest + the compensation will be as a cheque.

The best advice is to enjoy a really good holiday this year, a bit of retail therapy and then look at putting an amount into a rainy day fund

peppythepew

CeilingFly wrote: »

From a very strict legal perspective, they did nothing wrong, but it was unfair and the Central Bank forced them to accept the fairness route

If it was over 1k at 4.5%, then it would suggest a mortgage of circa 200k over 30 years.
That would mean a refund of about 25k-35k + compensation. Part of the refund (20%-30%) will probably be in a reduced mortgage balance (its a complicated calculation) and the rest + the compensation will be as a cheque.

The best advice is to enjoy a really good holiday this year, a bit of retail therapy and then look at putting an amount into a rainy day fund

We borrowed €236K over 30 years. Still have a balance of €178K which we're assuming will all change now. Our monthly repayments just reduced today by €250 and again we're assuming will reduce further when the adjustments are made? Its going to be life changing!

CeilingFly

peppythepew wrote: »

We borrowed €236K over 30 years. Still have a balance of €178K which we're assuming will all change now. Our monthly repayments just reduced today by €250 and again we're assuming will reduce further when the adjustments are made? Its going to be life changing!

going by a march 2006 start date, your balance should be about 165k, so when they calculate the refund, 13k will be taken off your balance and the rest of the refund will be a cheque - you will also get 10%-15% extra as compensation.

New payments should be circa €850

If you understand figures and how loan payments work, then you can play around with this http://www.amortization-calc.com/ - put 165000 + 1.25% interest and you'll see how interest / capital changes monthly

As your loan progresses less of the payment is interest and more is capital - each month it changes a couple of euro.

Between redress and compensation and after part is put against the balance, expect the cheque to be over €30,000

loseit

I am delighted for those that saw their mortgage repayment reduce today March 1st. I received the letter of 5th Jan. I have not yet received any answer to my query about restatement of the correct interest rate, interest refund and compensation .

Ceiling fly - thanks for your posts, they are very informative.

peppythepew

loseit wrote: »

I am delighted for those that saw their mortgage repayment reduce today March 1st. I received the letter of 5th Jan. I have not yet received any answer to my query about restatement of the correct interest rate, interest refund and compensation .

Ceiling fly - thanks for your posts, they are very informative.

Did your mortgage amount change today?
We havent received anything via post either, I just happened to call them to enquire about the scheme to reduce interest rates using the Loan To Value Ratio. I found out by accident early and we've been told the paperwork is on its way. I understand they had to have all the interest rates fixed by this month so it was done in a hurry.

CeilingFly

loseit wrote: »

I am delighted for those that saw their mortgage repayment reduce today March 1st. I received the letter of 5th Jan. I have not yet received any answer to my query about restatement of the correct interest rate, interest refund and compensation .

Ceiling fly - thanks for your posts, they are very informative.

9 years fighting them including FSO and looked at other legal action (but advised they were legally correct, if morally wrong)

From what I gather, letters went out late last week, but as letters are printed and then bulk posted from abroad, they only arrived in the an post system on Tuesday - that would normally mean you'd have the letter now, but with the weather causing disruption it will be next week you get it.

If you do online banking and your mortgage comes out on 1st of the month, you'll see the new amount.

btw - you can choose any date in the month for a mortgage payment to come out, up to 28th without any form filling. Its a simple phone call

loseit

peppythepew wrote: »

Did your mortgage amount change today?
.

I saw a reduction of €98. I was expecting it to be a lot more. I had got a reduction re the LTV last year and I have a KBC current account, so I think my rate is / was 3%. Not sure if that includes the extra .2% if you have a KBC current account. So maybe a reduction of just €98 is correct ? I will find out I am sure once they respond when people are back to work next week. thanks for asking. So sorry to hear about your trouble down through the last few years, hope it is better for you going forward.

loseit

CeilingFly wrote: »

btw - you can choose any date in the month for a mortgage payment to come out, up to 28th without any form filling. Its a simple phone call[/QUOTEIf repayment is later in the month does the interest charged differ or does it stay the same ? In other words is it calculated on 1st of the month and the payment can be made any time between 1st and 28th with no change to the interest charged ?

CeilingFly

loseit wrote: »

If repayment is later in the month does the interest charged differ or does it stay the same ? In other words is it calculated on 1st of the month and the payment can be made any time between 1st and 28th with no change to the interest charged ?

doesn't affect anything (or if it does, its miniscule es at tracker rate) - just means the mortgage is paid off up to 28 days later than if it was paid 1st of the month

CeilingFly

loseit wrote: »

I saw a reduction of €98. I was expecting it to be a lot more. I had got a reduction re the LTV last year and I have a KBC current account, so I think my rate is / was 3%. Not sure if that includes the extra .2% if you have a KBC current account. So maybe a reduction of just €98 is correct ? I will find out I am sure once they respond when people are back to work next week. thanks for asking. So sorry to hear about your trouble down through the last few years, hope it is better for you going forward.

probably is correct - I got reduction last year on ltv too and new payment is about 250 lower again.

I'll have a guess your mortgage was originally about 180k-200k for 25 years and current balance is about 130k. As mortgage moves on in years the interest cost drops, hence there's not as big a change in todays payment as you would ahve seen 6 years ago.

again, see http://www.amortization-calc.com/ and play around with figures.

odonovanpm

Did anyone else get an unsatisfactory response from KBC? I have two mortgages on the same account, and while they are returning the tracker to one of them, they have not done so to the other one because I "switched to a different homeloan variable rate in 2012" (i.e. post FSO and denial of tracker rate in 2010).

Are KBC for real? This is basically 2006 all over again. I am waiting to hear back whether this is an administrative error or oversight, but I suspect this was very deliberate.

loseit

odonovanpm wrote: »

Did anyone else get an unsatisfactory response from KBC? I have two mortgages on the same account, and while they are returning the tracker to one of them, they have not done so to the other one because I "switched to a different homeloan variable rate in 2012" (i.e. post FSO and denial of tracker rate in 2010).

Are KBC for real? This is basically 2006 all over again. I am waiting to hear back whether this is an administrative error or oversight, but I suspect this was very deliberate.

Hello I received exactly the same letter today, with the original loan reduced to tracker rate. I took out a top up loan that was at a different rate. Up to December 2015 I received 2 separate letters at the end of each year showing the balance on the 2 mortgages. In 2016 this stopped. So now you can't tell the balance on each part of the mortgage. But they reduced the monthly payment on just the original amount, which was a tracker rate. The other one was a 'variable rate' even though they are both against the 1 property and the balances are combined on the one statement each year. Over all it was just a €98 reduction per month.

CeilingFly

loseit wrote: »

Hello I received exactly the same letter today, with the original loan reduced to tracker rate. I took out a top up loan that was at a different rate. Up to December 2015 I received 2 separate letters at the end of each year showing the balance on the 2 mortgages.

A top-up loan is an entirely different loan and will be at whatever rate was chosen at the time it was taken out. It would never be at a rate of a loan taken out at a different time.

Also, understand that as you progress through your mortgage, the interest portion drops continuously whilst the capital repayment increases.
So a drop in interest rate 12 years into a mortgage won't see the same drop if it was just 5 years in.

loseit

CeilingFly wrote: »

A top-up loan is an entirely different loan and will be at whatever rate was chosen at the time it was taken out. It would never be at a rate of a loan taken out at a different time.

Also, understand that as you progress through your mortgage, the interest portion drops continuously whilst the capital repayment increases.
So a drop in interest rate 12 years into a mortgage won't see the same drop if it was just 5 years in.

Hi Original loan was 2006 and top up was a year later in 2007.

CeilingFly

loseit wrote: »

Hi Original loan was 2006 and top up was a year later in 2007.

Still a different loan - you'd need to check what rate you signed up to.

Whilst the security of the loan is same, it wouldn't matter whether its a year difference or ten years, it's still a separate loan

odonovanpm

I guess everyone's dealings with KBC are different, but I know in my case the full amount for both properties was in the original contract/offer. I did not request or withdraw money since 2006. The girl on the phone said "did you not draw down a loan in 2012?" - and the answer to this question was categorically no. I believe they did some internal accounting to allow for different rates to be applied to both loans, so not sure how this is going to play out in the immediate term. I just get the feeling these complaints/requests/issues are simply going to be fobbed off to the appeals panel.

I am still hoping this is an administrative error, but I absolutely do not trust them one bit.

@loseit - I think @ceilingfly could be right with regards to top-ups, which would correlate with the discussion I had with the staff member today. However, if you took out the top-up because you were being charged the incorrect rate (i.e. you genuinely needed the money which you would otherwise have had), then I think this should be factored in to your final compensation.

loseit

odonovanpm wrote: »

I guess everyone's dealings with KBC are different, but I know in my case the full amount for both properties was in the original contract/offer. I did not request or withdraw money since 2006. The girl on the phone said "did you not draw down a loan in 2012?" - and the answer to this question was categorically no. I believe they did some internal accounting to allow for different rates to be applied to both loans, so not sure how this is going to play out in the immediate term. I just get the feeling these complaints/requests/issues are simply going to be fobbed off to the appeals panel.

I am still hoping this is an administrative error, but I absolutely do not trust them one bit.

@loseit - I think @ceilingfly could be right with regards to top-ups, which would correlate with the discussion I had with the staff member today. However, if you took out the top-up because you were being charged the incorrect rate (i.e. you genuinely needed the money which you would otherwise have had), then I think this should be factored in to your final compensation.

Thanks to you both - understood.

shalclon

Hi all,
We also received a letter yesterday regarding our mortgage. It was a wonderful surprise and most most welcome. We suspected we should but were nearly too afraid to hope. Mortgage down by almost€400 per month. Without getting our hopes up too much we are trying to calculate what we might be owed back. Thing is I cannot find my contract, very careless I know but I was wondering if anyone might have any idea how many years we might have had to fix for or is every case different? We took out €285k mortgage in Jan 2007. I think it was for 3yrs but I can't be sure as I said I have misplaced few important documents including the KBC contract! I'm afraid to ring and talk to them in case they say was all a big mistake and they take it all back!! Zero faith in these banks. Many thanks. Delighted for all who got the same news yesterday.

SteM

shalclon wrote: »

Hi all,
We also received a letter yesterday regarding our mortgage. It was a wonderful surprise and most most welcome. We suspected we should but were nearly too afraid to hope. Mortgage down by almost€400 per month. Without getting our hopes up too much we are trying to calculate what we might be owed back. Thing is I cannot find my contract, very careless I know but I was wondering if anyone might have any idea how many years we might have had to fix for or is every case different? We took out €285k mortgage in Jan 2007. I think it was for 3yrs but I can't be sure as I said I have misplaced few important documents including the KBC contract! I'm afraid to ring and talk to them in case they say was all a big mistake and they take it all back!! Zero faith in these banks. Many thanks. Delighted for all who got the same news yesterday.

We still haven't received any notification by post, maybe that's down the weather. I called them to check this morning but there was no one on the tracker team available. I was supposed to get a call back but haven't yet.

CeilingFly

shalclon wrote: »

Hi all,
We also received a letter yesterday regarding our mortgage. It was a wonderful surprise and most most welcome. We suspected we should but were nearly too afraid to hope. Mortgage down by almost€400 per month. Without getting our hopes up too much we are trying to calculate what we might be owed back. Thing is I cannot find my contract, very careless I know but I was wondering if anyone might have any idea how many years we might have had to fix for or is every case different? We took out €285k mortgage in Jan 2007. I think it was for 3yrs but I can't be sure as I said I have misplaced few important documents including the KBC contract! I'm afraid to ring and talk to them in case they say was all a big mistake and they take it all back!! Zero faith in these banks. Many thanks. Delighted for all who got the same news yesterday.

Circa 40k+ refund, possibly over 50k.

But 40k will be minimum.

shalclon

CeilingFly wrote: »

Circa 40k+ refund, possibly over 50k.

But 40k will be minimum.

Thank you, you have made my year!!! Fingers crossed. Hope you also got good news.

R.O.R

We got our settlement from KBC in yesterday's post. Turned out to be a great savings account that we never knew about!

Mortgage payment down around €500 a month. Around €20k wiped off the mortgage balance and a cheque lodged to the bank today worth around 2 1/2 years salary.

They also sent a cheque for €650 to pay for an independant financial advisor to run through the figures to make sure they are as they should be. As herself is a qualified financial advisor that money won't be going out anywhere else.

Until a lower mortgage payment came out at the start of the year, neither of us were aware we may have been in scope of the tracker scandal. Considering that herself is not only QFA but was an underwriter in KBC when we took out the mortgage, it's all been a very pleasant surprise.

Like most, we had a tough few years when lower mortgage repayments would have been very handy, but we got through.

Credit cards being cleared as soon as the funds clear. Flights to Rome for her 40th will be booked at the same time, and a well a day off to go on a spending spree is being arranged for next week.

May everyone else impacted by this have as good a result as I got.