KBC Tracker Mortgage

CeilingFly

The compensation at 20% of overcharge works out at about 6% compound interest.

My oh sent me a link to the Cook Islands - and I'm very very tempted.

shalclon

Does anyone think it would be possible to convince KBC to give €20k that they have taken off our mortgage balance to us instead or is that not an option? We have been dreaming about an extension for years and now with the lump sum we have been given and if we got the 20k instead of the balance reduction we could finally do it or must they reduce the mortgage balance? Pushing my luck maybe? Much wants more!! Thanks.

CeilingFly

shalclon wrote: »

Does anyone think it would be possible to convince KBC to give €20k that they have taken off our mortgage balance to us instead or is that not an option? We have been dreaming about an extension for years and now with the lump sum we have been given and if we got the 20k instead of the balance reduction we could finally do it or must they reduce the mortgage balance? Pushing my luck maybe? Much wants more!! Thanks.

nope, not a chance as if they charged the correct rate at all times, your mortgage balance would be less by this amount - and they have to return the mortgage to the stage it would have been.

Trish56

All other banks are sending out cheques for 30k plus to customers who were overcharged so I can't see why KBC are not. Did you ring them up and ask and perhaps ring Central Bank.

shalclon wrote: »

Does anyone think it would be possible to convince KBC to give €20k that they have taken off our mortgage balance to us instead or is that not an option? We have been dreaming about an extension for years and now with the lump sum we have been given and if we got the 20k instead of the balance reduction we could finally do it or must they reduce the mortgage balance? Pushing my luck maybe? Much wants more!! Thanks.

CeilingFly

Trish56 wrote: »

All other banks are sending out cheques for 30k plus to customers who were overcharged so I can't see why KBC are not. Did you ring them up and ask and perhaps ring Central Bank.

Incorrect.

Banks MUST under Central Bank regulation return the mortgage balance to what it would have been if the correct rate was applied at all tiems and then refund any futher balance.

On average, about 30% of the amount gets taken off the mortgage balance and the balance sent by cheque. If you ahve arrears, these are also paid off before any balance is returned.

same calculation should apply to all banks.

Here is the CB direction
"1.1.1 “Adjusted Amount” refers to the difference between the monthly amounts that customers were charged in respect of their impacted accounts and the monthly amounts that they should have been charged had the relevant issue identified not occurred.

1.1.2 Loan balances are to be adjusted (the principal balances on impacted customer accounts to be adjusted to the correct level as if the issue giving rise to redress had not occurred and appropriate Tracker Interest Rates had been applied to the accounts from the appropriate time).

1.1.3 Impacted customers are to have the option of receiving direct payments in respect of Adjusted Amounts as opposed to Adjusted Amounts being set off against the balance of their mortgage accounts (see below for when the account is in arrears). These repayments to take into account the time value of money."

In plain english - they works out how much was overpaid, they work out what the current balance should be is correct rate was applied (loan amortisation calculation). Deduct the difference between reduced balance and current balance and then pay customer the balance (they can't set this amount off the mortgage unless the custoemr directs them to do so)

Gchef75

That's fantastic news for you and your family
I'm new to the forum
Could someone help
I to received a letter of kbc in January saying I was included in the redress examination
The question I have is I took my mortgage in June 2004 and f8xef for 2 years and fixed again after that
Why would I be included .
I've since switched provider which has ended up costing me considerably more
My solicitor has since gone so I don't know what to do any idea
Thank you

Trish56

Do you have a copy of your loan offer if so it will be in the conditions that when the fixed rate expires that you will then go on a tracker rate of for example 1.% over ECB and if that is not the case perhaps they should have offered you a tracker when your fixed rates expired.

You can request a copy of all your correspondence relating to your mortgage from KBC under the data protection act. I think you pay a fee of approx. €6.

Gchef75 wrote: »

That's fantastic news for you and your family
I'm new to the forum
Could someone help
I to received a letter of kbc in January saying I was included in the redress examination
The question I have is I took my mortgage in June 2004 and f8xef for 2 years and fixed again after that
Why would I be included .
I've since switched provider which has ended up costing me considerably more
My solicitor has since gone so I don't know what to do any idea
Thank you

Trish56

Does 1.13 not confirm what I am saying. I was involved in getting refunds for people with AIB and BOI and the customers got the choice of getting a refund or having their balance reduced by the overcharge.

CeilingFly wrote: »

Incorrect.

Banks MUST under Central Bank regulation return the mortgage balance to what it would have been if the correct rate was applied at all tiems and then refund any futher balance.

On average, about 30% of the amount gets taken off the mortgage balance and the balance sent by cheque. If you ahve arrears, these are also paid off before any balance is returned.

same calculation should apply to all banks.

Here is the CB direction
"1.1.1 “Adjusted Amount” refers to the difference between the monthly amounts that customers were charged in respect of their impacted accounts and the monthly amounts that they should have been charged had the relevant issue identified not occurred.

1.1.2 Loan balances are to be adjusted (the principal balances on impacted customer accounts to be adjusted to the correct level as if the issue giving rise to redress had not occurred and appropriate Tracker Interest Rates had been applied to the accounts from the appropriate time).

1.1.3 Impacted customers are to have the option of receiving direct payments in respect of Adjusted Amounts as opposed to Adjusted Amounts being set off against the balance of their mortgage accounts (see below for when the account is in arrears). These repayments to take into account the time value of money."

In plain english - they works out how much was overpaid, they work out what the current balance should be is correct rate was applied (loan amortisation calculation). Deduct the difference between reduced balance and current balance and then pay customer the balance (they can't set this amount off the mortgage unless the custoemr directs them to do so)

Gchef75

Trish56 wrote: »

Do you have a copy of your loan offer if so it will be in the conditions that when the fixed rate expires that you will then go on a tracker rate of for example 1.% over ECB and if that is not the case perhaps they should have offered you a tracker when your fixed rates expired.

You can request a copy of all your correspondence relating to your mortgage from KBC under the data protection act. I think you pay a fee of approx. €6.

No unfortunately not so I'll go the route you suggest
Thanks for help but not holding out much hope

CeilingFly

Trish56 wrote: »

Does 1.13 not confirm what I am saying. I was involved in getting refunds for people with AIB and BOI and the customers got the choice of getting a refund or having their balance reduced by the overcharge.

Kbc are giving refunds.

All the banks operate the same calculation.

You can choose to have this refund deducted from your balance.

There are 4 parts

1. Balance difference between what balance is and what it should be. On average this is about 25% of the overpayment.

2. The overpayment less any arrears and less the amount of balance reduction. This is paid by cheque. You can do whatever you like with thus.

3 compensation. Seems to be about 15% of the overpayment. Again, paid by cheque

4 a €650 payment to get independent advice or if you don't want to, you just keep it.

The poster who queried this is getting about 35k+ refund aa a cheque, but 15k+ also is coming off their balance - that's what they'd like as a cheque too

CeilingFly

Gchef75 wrote: »

That's fantastic news for you and your family
I'm new to the forum
Could someone help
I to received a letter of kbc in January saying I was included in the redress examination
The question I have is I took my mortgage in June 2004 and f8xef for 2 years and fixed again after that
Why would I be included .
I've since switched provider which has ended up costing me considerably more
My solicitor has since gone so I don't know what to do any idea
Thank you

What date is on the letter?

If January 5th and if it has the words
"you are deemed impacted" you should be getting further letter with good news.

My guess is that you have written somewhere in the contract that after a fixed rate period you revert to a tracker rate or something along those lines.

Even though your solicitor is gone, the file will be somewhere - call the law society. It will be quicker than the data request.

If it does mean you should have been on a tracker, you may get option to retake a mortgage with kbc + be refunded overpayment even if made to another bank.

Ulster bank have done this as have aib.

But definitely if you have the January 5th letter, it is possibly very good news

shalclon

The poster who queried this is getting about 35k+ refund aa a cheque, but 15k+ also is coming off their balance - that's what they'd like as a cheque too[/quote]

Yes exactly Ceiling Fly, we got €35k refund and €20 is coming off our mortgage balance. For a while now we have been considering applying for a mortgage top up to do an extension on the house and got a quote for €50k a few mths ago so when we got this good news we just wondered if you thought would it be a runner to get the €20k balance reduction in a lump sum, bringing us up to €55k, (covering the total extension cost) rather than off the balance as it would essentially be a top up but at the tracker interest rate. Thanks for your advice, much appreciated.

Gchef75

CeilingFly wrote: »

What date is on the letter?

If January 5th and if it has the words
"you are deemed impacted" you should be getting further letter with good news.

My guess is that you have written somewhere in the contract that after a fixed rate period you revert to a tracker rate or something along those lines.

Even though your solicitor is gone, the file will be somewhere - call the law society. It will be quicker than the data request.

If it does mean you should have been on a tracker, you may get option to retake a mortgage with kbc + be refunded overpayment even if made to another bank.

Ulster bank have done this as have aib.

But definitely if you have the January 5th letter, it is possibly very good news

The wording is your account is included in a group being considered impacted .
So who knows?
But thanks for the advice on law library I'll get on to that first thing Monday

CeilingFly

Gchef75 wrote: »

The wording is your account is included in a group being considered impacted .
So who knows?
But thanks for the advice on law library I'll get on to that first thing Monday

Can you give precise wording?

One word in a different place can make a huge difference.

If the wording is exactly as follows, you are in for a nice surprise

"included within a group of accounts considered 'as being impacted' as part of the tracker examination"

If it is that precise wording, then it is stating that you are considered "as being impacted". Not "being considered" - but "considered". Basically, your mortgage should be on a tracker rate.

You need to contact a solicitor or good financial advisor to ensure you get the best deal. In your case, I think a solicitor would be best as they'd be able to find your old file.

Gchef75

CeilingFly wrote: »

Can you give precise wording?

One word in a different place can make a huge difference.

If the wording is exactly as follows, you are in for a nice surprise

"included within a group of accounts considered 'as being impacted' as part of the tracker examination"

If it is that precise wording, then it is stating that you are considered "as being impacted". Not "being considered" - but "considered". Basically, your mortgage should be on a tracker rate.

You need to contact a solicitor or good financial advisor to ensure you get the best deal. In your case, I think a solicitor would be best as they'd be able to find your old file.

This is exactly the wording on the letter
included within a group of accounts considered 'as being impacted' as part of the tracker examination"

But I switched provider where does that leave me
So confused trying not to get excited

CeilingFly

Gchef75 wrote: »

This is exactly the wording on the letter
included within a group of accounts considered 'as being impacted' as part of the tracker examination"

But I switched provider where does that leave me
So confused trying not to get excited

They have to ensure you do not suffer loss. In an ulster bank case, they customer was taken back and put on tracker and refunded all overpayment calculation.

Possibly contact Padraic Kissane - Kissane Financial services. he's the expert and his fees are reasonable.

But, its certainly good news for you, it just might take 3-4 months to finalise everything.

Gchef75

CeilingFly wrote: »

They have to ensure you do not suffer loss. In an ulster bank case, they customer was taken back and put on tracker and refunded all overpayment calculation.

Possibly contact Padraic Kissane - Kissane Financial services. he's the expert and his fees are reasonable.

But, its certainly good news for you, it just might take 3-4 months to finalise everything.

That's great news I'll try make contact with Patrick Kisane
Switched to bank of Ireland 2011 on high interest rate hopefully I'll get tracker fingers crossed
Thanks

stanflt

I received a letter dated jan 5 and on the 1 march this yr my mortgage payment dropped over 350 a month- got a letter a few days later telling me I've been moved to tracker of 1.25%

I did a few figures and I reckon I'm still being overcharged because if I adjust the balance of what extra repayments would of been paid I should be paying another 100 euro less per month as my outstanding balance is less

For people that have been settled did they see this figure readjusted

CeilingFly

stanflt wrote: »

I received a letter dated jan 5 and on the 1 march this yr my mortgage payment dropped over 350 a month- got a letter a few days later telling me I've been moved to tracker of 1.25%

I did a few figures and I reckon I'm still being overcharged because if I adjust the balance of what extra repayments would of been paid I should be paying another 100 euro less per month as my outstanding balance is less

For people that have been settled did they see this figure readjusted

I would doubt it. The calculation of ineterest and repayments is a very simple equation that would be very difficult for a bank to get wrong - they can get many things wrong, but not something like this is its simply put into an amortisation equation and the figure is generated. http://www.amortization-calc.com/

In the next few days you will get a letter from them giving a very comprehensive breakdown of all payments made on the mortgage, what the correct payment wer and what the balance if payments were as contracted were. Your mortgage will now be at this new balance and the difference of the reduction in the balance and the amount overpaid is refunded to you as a cheque

This cheque will be substantial. If your mortgage was €400,000 and you should ahve gone back on tracker in 2010, the cheque will be circa 50k+

stanflt

CeilingFly wrote: »

I would doubt it. The calculation of ineterest and repayments is a very simple equation that would be very difficult for a bank to get wrong - they can get many things wrong, but not something like this is its simply put into an amortisation equation and the figure is generated. http://www.amortization-calc.com/

In the next few days you will get a letter from them giving a very comprehensive breakdown of all payments made on the mortgage, what the correct payment wer and what the balance if payments were as contracted were. Your mortgage will now be at this new balance and the difference of the reduction in the balance and the amount overpaid is refunded to you as a cheque

This cheque will be substantial. If your mortgage was €400,000 and you should ahve gone back on tracker in 2010, the cheque will be circa 50k+

Thanks but after running the figures a few times I worked out that this months repayment was based on my current balance before adjustments- when they take circa 30k off this figure my repayments should drop- shouldn't they?

CeilingFly

stanflt wrote: »

Thanks but after running the figures a few times I worked out that this months repayment was based on my current balance before adjustments- when they take circa 30k off this figure my repayments should drop- shouldn't they?

yes - their priority was to get you on the correct rate and they applied that from March 1st. Then they do the calculation of redress and the balance changes - a payment based on this balance is caculated from April 1st.

On mine (I got an extremely nice cheque) it had a small refund calculated for the March amount that obviosuly reflected about 12 days of a higher balance.

stanflt

CeilingFly wrote: »

yes - their priority was to get you on the correct rate and they applied that from March 1st. Then they do the calculation of redress and the balance changes - a payment based on this balance is caculated from April 1st.

On mine (I got an extremely nice cheque) it had a small refund calculated for the March amount that obviosuly reflected about 12 days of a higher balance.

Great thanks

stanflt

CeilingFly wrote: »

yes - their priority was to get you on the correct rate and they applied that from March 1st. Then they do the calculation of redress and the balance changes - a payment based on this balance is caculated from April 1st.

On mine (I got an extremely nice cheque) it had a small refund calculated for the March amount that obviosuly reflected about 12 days of a higher balance.

When did you first get notifications

I was jan 5 batch of letters

SteM

CeilingFly wrote: »

This cheque will be substantial. If your mortgage was €400,000 and you should ahve gone back on tracker in 2010, the cheque will be circa 50k+

When you say a 'the cheque will be circa 50k+', do mean a mixture of refund/redress in cheque form and money off the mortgage? So, €30k off the mortgage and €20k cheque as an example?

CeilingFly

stanflt wrote: »

When did you first get notifications

I was jan 5 batch of letters

Jan 5th followed by Feb 27th followed by final letter with calculations and cheque last Friday

SteM wrote: »

When you say a 'the cheque will be circa 50k+', do mean a mixture of refund/redress in cheque form and money off the mortgage? So, €30k off the mortgage and €20k cheque as an example?

a 400k mortgage, 25 years that went onto svr from say early 2010 and was entitled to a 1% tracker would equate to a redress and compensation of about 60k. About 45k would be cheque and about 15k would come off the balance. (possibly a wee bit higher)

If tracker was 1.25%, figure would be about 40k / 14k

If the fixed rate ended in 2011, deduct about 6k off that and 2012, deduct about 6k too. The real overcharge was from 2013-2018 when ecb rates were 0.25% and 0%

peppythepew

We fixed in 2007 and should have gone back into a tracker in 2009 but were put on the SVR.

We fixed again then for 2 more 2 year periods but not necessarily back to back. Obviously if we had been on the tracker rate we wouldn't have fixed.

Are our calculations still going to be based on the total time since 2009 or only the times we were on the SVR in between fixing?

Has anybody else been in a similar situation?

CeilingFly

peppythepew wrote: »

Are our calculations still going to be based on the total time since 2009 or only the times we were on the SVR in between fixing?

Has anybody else been in a similar situation?

You will be corrected from 2009 when the first fixed period ended. Their error would have been the causation of any other decision you made, so that further fixed rate is considered an overcharge period too.

loseit

CeilingFly wrote: »

The compensation at 20% of overcharge works out at about 6% compound interest.

The compensation I received was just 10% from KBC. As loan was over 500k I had expected at least 15% compensation.

loseit

CeilingFly wrote: »

The compensation at 20% of overcharge works out at about 6% compound interest.

The compensation I received was just 10% from KBC. As loan was over 500k I had expected at least 15% compensation.

SteM

Another letter from kbc this morning to say they were still investigating my account but they can't give me any firm date for a resolution. Not covering themselves in glory.