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limerick bus lane parish politics
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I would love for somebody to explain how as there is NO bus lane being built on the outbound lane
There is an outbound bus lane planned at the Mount approaching Punch's Cross.
This will help the buses to skip the peak-time queues coming up to those traffic lights.
Drawings of the scheme: http://getlimerickmoving.com/drawings0 -
i also read i think on archiseek.com that a limerick bus driver was saying that they are introducing double decker buses on the busier routes (castletroy and raheen), anyone else hear about this?0
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I don't understand why Limerick needs a bus lane? There is no traffic at all in the city or suburbs. The only place where you get delays of 30mins or so is Adare,thats where they need to be sorting out imo.
I have family members who live on O'Connell avenue and I wouldn't describe them as rich residents at all. There all struggling to survive like everyone else. There isn't car parking space for them in their homes, so they have to park on the street. If a bus lane arrives there looking at walking 15minutes or so from their car to their homes.
I'm all for public transport but not at the detriment to others. Bus journeys in Limerick city are shorter than in any other city I have lived such as Dublin or London. Traffic is free flowing and buses generally on time. Bus lane is waste of money and time as far as Im concerned.0 -
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There is an outbound bus lane planned at the Mount approaching Punch's Cross.
This will help the buses to skip the peak-time queues coming up to those traffic lights.
Drawings of the scheme: http://getlimerickmoving.com/drawings
The bit you are talking about on O'Connell Avenue is only a few hundred yards long. Doesn't that plan have the two current outbound lanes at Punches cross become one outbound lane straight after those traffic light for about a hundred yards, and then turn back into two lanes until the traffic lights at the greenpark centre?
So traffic that would be going left onto Childers road and the traffic going on straight towards Dooradoye all get funnelled into one single lane where there is currently two lanes, then just past the bus stop outside the old Esso station it becomes two lanes again.
From then onwards there is no outbound bus lane and everything gets to share the one outbound lane. An outbound lane that has no off road bus stops planned for it, meaning the bus will be stopping on the outbound lane, as shown in the drawings you linked to, stopping all traffic behind it. Plus when the road is busy, the bus gains nothing in terms of time, and is still going to be prone to peak traffic on the Ballinacurra road.
Just seems a very flawed plan, especially when it is meant to be designed by professional planners. The bus would gain time on one side of the route, but looks like it could lose it on the other side of the route. Kind of defeats the purpose of a bus lane system if it does not speed up the route as a whole, and if the inbound lane gets built on the Ballinacurra road, there will be no room for an outbound lane to be built at anypoint, not unless they get rid of one of the traffic lanes totally and make it one way to traffic on that lane.0 -
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This is not just a bus lane !!!! Far from it , its a car free lane which gives the city back to its inhabitants .It will get used by far more cyclists than
buses ,thus bringing back the cleanest form of transport a city can have
. Just look at dublin and the amount of cyclists in the inner city and on the approach roads every morning .Along with the dublin bike scheme it has become a far nicer place to visit and live.
A bus and cycle lane gives its users a view of the pavement and any crossings on it become safer for pedestrians as well .
Every european study shows that where implimented ,cycle rates go up
and accident rates go down for both pedestrians and cyclists alike .
Sounds like win win to me ?????
Waiting for the perfect plan to come around will never happen ,but any errors will get sorted in time . Better to get started than to be thinking about it for another 10 years.
I understand residents being unhappy at loseing what they have have become used to and every effort possible should be made to make other spots available for them.
Not withstanding the above the premise has to be WHATS GOOD FOR THE MAJORITY IS HAPPENING ...........
Hence the title PARISH POLITICS..........0 -
This is not just a bus lane !!!! Far from it , its a car free lane which gives the city back to its inhabitants .It will get used by far more cyclists than
buses ,thus bringing back the cleanest form of transport a city can have
. Just look at dublin and the amount of cyclists in the inner city and on the approach roads every morning .Along with the dublin bike scheme it has become a far nicer place to visit and live.
A bus and cycle lane gives its users a view of the pavement and any crossings on it become safer for pedestrians as well .
Every european study shows that where implimented ,cycle rates go up
and accident rates go down for both pedestrians and cyclists alike .
Sounds like win win to me ?????
Waiting for the perfect plan to come around will never happen ,but any errors will get sorted in time . Better to get started than to be thinking about it for another 10 years.
I understand residents being unhappy at loseing what they have have become used to and every effort possible should be made to make other spots available for them.
Not withstanding the above the premise has to be WHATS GOOD FOR THE MAJORITY IS HAPPENING ...........
Hence the title PARISH POLITICS..........
Ah yes a bus lane that is not continuous and that has many proposed merges with the car lane will be so much safer for the cyclists. And what about every other main route in and out of the city centre then? Should not every route have bus lanes going each way then? After all cyclists use more than that one stretch of road.
And what happens to the cyclists who want to cycle out towards the Crescent Shopping centre or Dooradoyle along the Ballinacurra road? Under the new plans there will be just one outbound lane which is to be shared by cars and buses and all other traffic. Or do those cyclists just do what they do now and cycle along the pedestrian footpath?
Funny how some of the councillors most behind the bus lane for O Connell Ave/Ballinacurra road are ones who have spoken out against bus lanes on their own sides of the city.
Bus lane systems that actually go in and out of each main route in an unbroken manner would be of great benefit to Limerick, but the bus lane planned for the Ballinacurra road/O Connell ave is not this.0 -
Ah!!! Wouldn't that be nice ,contra flow bicycle lanes on the five main routes of our city all in one go .... But life isn't perfect (unless you live in holland) is it , so you take what you can get as a starting point and move forward from there
weaning the public on to the NEW idea .0 -
People are saying give more power to the city councillors and unify them under one authority - feck that. For all its worth if that ever happens its the County Council that takes over, having that inept system out here would be a shambles!0
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Ah!!! Wouldn't that be nice ,contra flow bicycle lanes on the five main routes of our city all in one go .... But life isn't perfect (unless you live in holland) is it , so you take what you can get as a starting point and move forward from there
weaning the public on to the NEW idea .
To be honest having bus lanes, bike lanes, and a proper rail system is hardly a new idea, and as someone who lived in Germany and Holland, I am all for those idea if implemented in a manner that makes sense, but the layout of the plans for the bus lane on the Ballinacurra road is a joke.
Some people seem to be thinking that there will be a clear bus lane going each way, something that certain councillors have hinted at, and that the bus lanes will go from Town centre the whole way to Raheen church.
This is not the case at all, nor are there future plans to have an outbound lane on the Ballinacurra road as once the inbound buslane gets put in place, then there will simply be no room for an outbound lane, something that has already been confirmed by the plans.
Next time people are driving in from Dooradoyle/Crescent Shopping centre along the Ballinacurra road, they should visualise this.
Where the cars are parked on the left will have parking some spaces, so that is the width of a car. Next will be an inbound bus lane. Now look at the remaining space on the road and picture inbound and outbound traffic lanes fitting there. Now picture everything trying to fit in that small outbound lane as it is laid out in the plans. Cars, trucks, cyclists and of course buses all have to use that outbound lane, and the plans for the new layout have the bus stops on the actual lane, so all traffic has to stop every time the bus stops to pick up or let people off. Also with all the traffic in one lane, buses will not be able to go any faster than the regualr traffic in that stretch, so there will be no increase in bus times heading out of town to Dooradoyle or the Crescent shopping centre, but that's alright because there will be a bus lane going in the opposite direction that won't go the whole way to town either.:rolleyes:
Also the talk of it being good for local jobs is a load of baloney. There was also talk of the current road works where the gas line are being done on O'Connell Avenue, Ballinacurra Road, Ballinacurra gardens, Oakview drive etc being good for local construction type jobs too. Maybe people should pay attention as to where the "local" companies brought in to do the work are actually from.
It is also funny that the residents on the Ennis road were able to protest about a bus lane going there with no problems, which left it as a bus lane that ends at Ivans cross and only resumes at Maternity hospital for a few hundred yards, surely such a busy ruote should have had a bus lane pushed through with the same vigor and intent.
Oh wait the same councillors from that area who are shouting the loudest about getting the Ballinacurra bus lane were the ones shouting against one on their own doorsteps on the Ennis road.0 -
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It is also funny that the residents on the Ennis road were able to protest about a bus lane going there with no problems, which left it as a bus lane that ends at Ivans cross and only resumes at Maternity hospital for a few hundred yards, surely such a busy ruote should have had a bus lane pushed through with the same vigor and intent.
Oh wait the same councillors from that area who are shouting the loudest about getting the Ballinacurra bus lane were the ones shouting against one on their own doorsteps on the Ennis road.
The Ennis road is still be discussed, afaik. It will happen eventually.0 -
Amazotheamazing wrote: »The Ennis road is still be discussed, afaik. It will happen eventually.
The Ennis road was originally meant to be long finished at this point. But certain individuals with influence objected to it being done on one stretch in particular on the Ennis road, yet one of those individuals is very vocal about it being done on the Ballinacurra road. Bit hard to take these people's opinion on the subject , and their comments on wanting what is best for Limerick seriously when they can flip flop in their convictions depending on how close a project comes to their own doorstep.
What Limerick will end up with is a number of half assed bus lanes when it is all done and dusted.
Bus Lanes that go some of the journey and not both ways on each main route. Rather than bus lanes that go full routes and in both directions, that would have a genuine impact on bus journeys with the town and suburbs.0 -
It's depressing that it causes so much controversy when there's a proposal to improve public transport and reduce private traffic.
Those poor misfortunes on O'Connell Avenue. Someone should call in Amnesty.0 -
If a tunnel under the river, with a cost of 1.80 per car is cost-effective, why isn't it cost-effective to build a few under the city and put in a few trains? By cost-effective I mean taking into account: ticket revenue, increased public transport by rail, increased public transport by bus (because there will be less congestion), increased retail activity, less air pollution, less noise.0
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It's depressing that it causes so much controversy when there's a proposal to improve public transport and reduce private traffic.
Those poor misfortunes on O'Connell Avenue. Someone should call in Amnesty.
How exactly will it improve public transport and reduce private traffic?
If you are making that statement I take it you have look at the current plans along with the proposed future ones for the Ballinacurra road/O'Connell ave bus lane.
I would love to hear how a single bus lane that will only be going inbound for some of the journey into the town centre will bring about the improvements you just claimed.
Especially as there will be no outbound buslane on the Ballinacurra road, and the current plans for the inbound lane mean there never can be one due to the fact that once the inbound lane gets built then there will be no room for an outgoing bus lane, no room for a bik lane, and no room for off road bus stops.
So once traffic hits the Ballinacurra road, everything has to use one outbound lane. Private traffic, commercial traffic, buses, cyclists etc, plus the proposed new bus stops on the outbound route will be on the road, meaning all traffic gets stopped everytime a bus stops, plus the buses on that outbound route will still be able to travel no faster than whatever outbound traffic is on the road.
Plus the inbound lane will not go as far as the town centre.
So please explain, using the current proposed plans, how it will reduce private traffic and improve public transport on that route.0 -
If a tunnel under the river, with a cost of 1.80 per car is cost-effective, why isn't it cost-effective to build a few under the city and put in a few trains? By cost-effective I mean taking into account: ticket revenue, increased public transport by rail, increased public transport by bus (because there will be less congestion), increased retail activity, less air pollution, less noise.
You have to take into account the difference in cost between a 700m tunnel and one that is a number of miles long, also factor in the cost of stations and rolling stock.
If you want to talk light rail, there are plenty of unused tracks around the city which could be revived, using the existing commuter trains, and building unmanned platforms along the same line as luas stops.0 -
According to the Leader the bit from the city boundary to Punches Cross is going ahead. The rest is being put off until next year.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Plans-to-build-a-bus.6528957.jp0 -
Cookiemunster wrote: »According to the Leader the bit from the city boundary to Punches Cross is going ahead. The rest is being put off until next year.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Plans-to-build-a-bus.6528957.jp
Laughable that it is going ahead for one small stretch on the Ballinacurra road when the next stretch could yet be blocked and has not been approved.
Come next summer if the O'Connell avenue bit does not get cleared, then the brains that are the planners end up with a bit of a bus lane that ends beside Punches pub heading city bound..
Ah well guess we will get top see the massive improvements for people's bus times along a short stretch, yet will never see any improvements on bus times going out towards the crescent shopping centre and Dooradoyle as there is no bus lane being built or even planned for that direction, and never will be now that the inbound lane is coming in.0 -
It took me 45 mins to get from The model school to Punches cross the other day, reason...road blocked from people collecting there kids. Whats gonna happen when bus lane goes in...road congestion will further increase not get better...
A bus lane is no good unless it goes the entire route. And Im sick of hearing about all of foreign neighbours having bus routes. They do as there roads are much wider and can take the capacity.
Also the politicians made the claim that it would bring in local jobs and parts would be bought locally, a complete lie, as the contractor is from Laois, the plant hire is also from Laois and there is a load of foreign contractors there..
Plenty of Limerick plant hires that are local ...a complete disgrace...get rid of =every stupid bus lane in the entire town and half of the newly established traffic lights, and get every single car moving, cutting the congestion therefore getting rid of the need for any stupid bus lane...
And also if the bus lanes were so good why havent they reduced the price of the buses to encourage people to use them, no all they do is drop the number of buses that serve the route as what has happened in castletroy.
I would invite any politician to answer one of my arguments...0 -
It took me 45 mins to get from The model school to Punches cross the other day, reason...road blocked from people collecting there kids. Whats gonna happen when bus lane goes in...road congestion will further increase not get better...
A bus lane is no good unless it goes the entire route. And Im sick of hearing about all of foreign neighbours having bus routes. They do as there roads are much wider and can take the capacity.
Also the politicians made the claim that it would bring in local jobs and parts would be bought locally, a complete lie, as the contractor is from Laois, the plant hire is also from Laois and there is a load of foreign contractors there..
Plenty of Limerick plant hires that are local ...a complete disgrace...get rid of =every stupid bus lane in the entire town and half of the newly established traffic lights, and get every single car moving, cutting the congestion therefore getting rid of the need for any stupid bus lane...
And also if the bus lanes were so good why havent they reduced the price of the buses to encourage people to use them, no all they do is drop the number of buses that serve the route as what has happened in castletroy.
I would invite any politician to answer one of my arguments...
You will get no answers to any of your questions. The councillors answered nothing of note at any of the meetings on it.
And yes you are correct in saying that no local contracter will be doing the work, despite all the bluster about it creating local jobs in the construction of the lane. Then again all the road works laying the gas pipes etc in the same area over the last few months all went to a firm from Offaly, and the company that trimmed the trees on O'Connell avenue was from Mallow, so the talk of local people getting the jobs for these projects is rubbish.
It is a very poorly concieved plan and anyone with half a brain who looks at the approved section along with the proposed sections can see the obvious problems with it, not withstanding the fact that even if all of it gets built that it does not even cover the whole journey and only goes one way.
I have no doubts that when it is finished lots of people who were saying it should go ahead will be complaining about how the outbound lane to Dooradoyle along the Ballinacurra road is one single lane which includes all traffic and will have the new bus stops in the actual lane as it goes outbound.
As I have said many times here, well planned bus lanes that go inbound and outbound and that are continuous would make a huge difference in bus times, but one bus lane that only goes inbound and only for some of the journey that also merges with the main traffic flow, makes no sense.
Your point about Punches cross is valid too, moreso when people find out that the inbound lane at the traffic lights alongside the old Esso station is due to become one traffic lane for a few hundred yards, forcing where there was also two traffic lanes into one, cuasing more congestion.0 -
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Lads in fairness the gas pipe works at the moment on OConnel Ave are nothing to do with the Bus Lane. If you have a problem with Laois contractors take it up with Bord Gais, although I do agree that Limerick companies should get the work but its Bord Gais0
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Back on topic about bus lanes. There are bus lanes all over Dublin, but very few that run the full length of the route in both directions. The system that has been proposed for O'Connell Ave/Ballinacurra Rd, has been operating in Dublin for years without problem. and has improved bus times.
Take for instance the 16/16A bus, which leaves the city centre, goes through Rathmines, Terenure, Templeogue and comes back into the city centre. This route operates the exact same system that is being proposed. The lane goes both outbound and inbound in sections with a two way road system running alongside. Also a lot of the residents on this route do not have parking in their front gardens and have to park elsewhere.
Bus lanes in a modern city are an important piece of infrastructure. It is ridiculous that a group of residents are holding up something this important because there will be less parking on the route.....that's right, not no parking, less parking.0 -
Lads in fairness the gas pipe works at the moment on OConnel Ave are nothing to do with the Bus Lane. If you have a problem with Laois contractors take it up with Bord Gais, although I do agree that Limerick companies should get the work but its Bord Gais
It was contracters from Offaly that did the gas works, the Laois contracters are the company for the bus lane on the Ballinacurra road, the same bus lane that the councillors said was going to be done by local contracters.0 -
I'm ignoring the above post and have reported it as there are 2 threads on this topic already.
Back on topic about bus lanes. There are bus lanes all over Dublin, but very few that run the full length of the route in both directions. The system that has been proposed for O'Connell Ave/Ballinacurra Rd, has been operating in Dublin for years without problem. and has improved bus times.
Take for instance the 16/16A bus, which leaves the city centre, goes through Rathmines, Terenure, Templeogue and comes back into the city centre. This route operates the exact same system that is being proposed. The lane goes both outbound and inbound in sections with a two way road system running alongside. Also a lot of the residents on this route do not have parking in their front gardens and have to park elsewhere.
Bus lanes in a modern city are an important piece of infrastructure. It is ridiculous that a group of residents are holding up something this important because there will be less parking on the route.....that's right, not no parking, less parking.
Yes that bus lane in Dublin goes both outbound and inbound. The Ballinacurra road bus lane will not have an outbound lane, and the bus stops in the outbound lane are to be moved to the traffic lane, as shown clearly in the plans. So the outbound lane will go slower than it does now as all traffic including buses will use it, and it will have to come to a halt every time a bus uses one of the new bus stops on it.
If you look through many of my posts on this you will see that I am not against a bus lane, I am against bus lanes that only do a fraction of what they should do, and the fact that the same plans actually reduce the number of outbound lanes between Punches Pub and the greenpark centre will only cause more congestion as the current system where cars going to Dooradoyle go to the right hand lane, and cars going to Childers road go to the left lane will be gone at the traffic lights as both directions will have to merge into one lane for a few hundred yards, so all the traffic from Oconnell avenue outbound, New Street and coming from Edward street all end up merging into a single lane instead of being able to filter straight away into the lane they needed. If anything the bus times coming out of town toward Dooradoyle will take longer when all is done.
But that seems to be ok as the bus time inbound along the Ballinacurra road will be quicker for all of a half mile or so.
Funny how it is the inbound lane that is such a priority when a person from CIE/Bus Eireann at one of the meetings came out and said that the outbound route is the busier of the two routes on a weekly basis.0 -
Yes that bus lane in Dublin goes both outbound and inbound. The Ballinacurra road bus lane will not have an outbound lane, and the bus stops in the outbound lane are to be moved to the traffic lane, as shown clearly in the plans. So the outbound lane will go slower than it does now as all traffic including buses will use it, and it will have to come to a halt every time a bus uses one of the new bus stops on it.
If you look through many of my posts on this you will see that I am not against a bus lane, I am against bus lanes that only do a fraction of what they should do, and the fact that the same plans actually reduce the number of outbound lanes between Punches Pub and the greenpark centre will only cause more congestion as the current system where cars going to Dooradoyle go to the right hand lane, and cars going to Childers road go to the left lane will be gone at the traffic lights as both directions will have to merge into one lane for a few hundred yards, so all the traffic from Oconnell avenue outbound, New Street and coming from Edward street all end up merging into a single lane instead of being able to filter straight away into the lane they needed. If anything the bus times coming out of town toward Dooradoyle will take longer when all is done.
But that seems to be ok as the bus time inbound along the Ballinacurra road will be quicker for all of a half mile or so.
Funny how it is the inbound lane that is such a priority when a person from CIE/Bus Eireann at one of the meetings came out and said that the outbound route is the busier of the two routes on a weekly basis.
Kess my post was not aimed at you directly, just a general outline of how the system being discussed seems to work in other places.
The reason there are both inbound and outbound on the route I outlined in the post you quoted is due to the length of the route, and if I remember correctly from the plans there are sections of outbound, just the inbound sections are much more substantial.
Heres some pictures from Archiseek, showing proposed images of the bus lanes.0 -
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Anti_c, I've deleted two of your posts because they are off-topic. There is already a thread dedicated to the the topic of Fairview Crescent. Please use it. Also try to refrain from posting in all capitals. This is simple Internet etiquette, and will make your posts easier to read.
Zuroph and Foinse, I removed your posts for quoting the above deleted material. Thanks for offering your advice on the issue.0 -
Kess my post was not aimed at you directly, just a general outline of how the system being discussed seems to work in other places.
The reason there are both inbound and outbound on the route I outlined in the post you quoted is due to the length of the route, and if I remember correctly from the plans there are sections of outbound, just the inbound sections are much more substantial.
Heres some pictures from Archiseek, showing proposed images of the bus lanes.
There is only one tiny stretch of outbound in the plans, and that is proposed for a section on O'Connell avenue that they have not gotten permission for.
And the benefit from that tiny stretch gets wiped out by the approved plans for a single lane for all traffic, including any bus going that way, from the Punches Cross traffic lights to close to the entrance to the Greenpark centre.
I agree with you that there are some great examples of bus lanes elsewhere, and they do make a big difference in travel times when done right.0 -
There is only one tiny stretch of outbound in the plans, and that is proposed for a section on O'Connell avenue that they have not gotten permission for.
And the benefit from that tiny stretch gets wiped out by the approved plans for a single lane for all traffic, including any bus going that way, from the Punches Cross traffic lights to close to the entrance to the Greenpark centre.
I agree with you that there are some great examples of bus lanes elsewhere, and they do make a big difference in travel times when done right.
There will be outbound from BT to Crescent, then you have the section where the residents care more about having someplace to park their cars than having free flowing traffic. That's why the planning permission hasn't been granted, for the outbound section, I had more pics before, of the whole route, which showed the section in contention. Which had been altered to allow parking, if the parking wasn't a contention. Then we would have plans for both inbound and outbound lanes along that stretch. The plans have been drawn up the way they are in order to please the residents.0 -
There will be outbound from BT to Crescent, then you have the section where the residents care more about having someplace to park their cars than having free flowing traffic. That's why the planning permission hasn't been granted, for the outbound section, I had more pics before, of the whole route, which showed the section in contention. Which had been altered to allow parking, if the parking wasn't a contention. Then we would have plans for both inbound and outbound lanes along that stretch. The plans have been drawn up the way they are in order to please the residents.
I have seen the complete plans a number of times now. Just seems to be a lot of things in them that will cause as much congestion as it will relieve.
In my eyes if the combined bus route time, both inbound and outbound, stays more of less the same as an overall journey due to time being gained going towards town and tie being lost going out of town, then the project stinks of a waste of whatever amount of millions it is going to cost.
I say whatever amount of millions as depending on which councillor is talking about the project it is to cost €2.2m, €5m, and €10m.
I will have a moan about the whole thing as I think it was dealt with very poorly by the councillors and authorities involved with a lot of scaremongering and contradicting "facts" thrown about, but I would much prefer to be proven wrong and have the lane improve overall journeys than turn out like I think it will.
I also hope that once the bus lane is finished and up and running a year or so, that the councillors who stood up and claimed that it was a guarantee of millions and millions of extra revenue for the city centre come forward with proof of all the extra people that the (already existing) route has brought to the city centre businesses.0 -
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Another problem with Bus lanes is they are meant to stop and begin after every enterance or turn off. For some unknown reason to me, they continue all the way past peoples enterances, this is illegal as you are not allowed to turn and cross a bus lane for any reason whatsoever.
All these bus lanes are doing is causing further congestion on already stretched roads, and I two agree if they dont go the entire route then they shouldnt be there in the first place, they put a stupid bus stop on the new oribital route outside the presentation school which blocks the entire lane now as a result when some1 trys to get on or off the bus.
There is plenty of other things bus eireann should concentrate on ...i.e. fix there disgusting bus shelters, and put a proper one in the shannon banks area as I am sick of being stuck behind a bus just before the apple bus station whilst they block the road...0
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