Speaking a Different Language at work

irelandrover

Were the 3 disciplined all speaking to each other in Polish? Since they were all in different areas then they must have been talking quite loudly and across other employees. Which if that is the case then I can understand why it would create tensions.

ted1

i've worked in a few companies where the policy was that you could not speak a language that would exclude any one within ear shot of the conversation. This was to prevent bullying and stop people from feeling left out.

Milk & Honey

Micilin Muc wrote: »

I'm an Irish teacher and when I'm in the staffroom, I speak Irish to my Irish-teaching colleagues. If there's someone in the group who doesn't speak Irish (ie some other teachers), we speak in English. It's only manners.

Are not all teachers supposed to be able to speak Irish?

the_syco

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Are not all teachers supposed to be able to speak Irish?

Speaking Irish, and having a fluent conversation are two different things. Also, if the teachers were from differnt parts of the country (eg: Dublin and Cork), there'd be a lot of difference between the way things are said.

Micilin Muc

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Are not all teachers supposed to be able to speak Irish?

Only Primary School teachers.

Milk & Honey

What about this case (Anita Groener v Minister for Education) 1987

"3 It is apparent from the documents before the Court that, according to Section 23(1 ) and ( 2 ) of the Vocational Education Act 1930, the Minister' s approval is required concerning the numbers, qualifications, remuneration and appointment of all employees of each vocational education committee . Exercising his powers under that Act, the Minister adopted, inter alia, two administrative measures .

4 First, pursuant to Memorandum V7, which entered into force on 1 September 1974, the competent committee may not appoint a person to a permanent full-time post in certain areas of teaching, including in particular art, unless that person holds the Ceard-Teastas Gaeilge ( certificate of proficiency in the Irish language ) or has an equivalent qualification recognized by the Minister . In that memorandum, the Minister also reserved the right to exempt candidates from countries other than Ireland from the obligation to know Irish, provided that there were no other fully qualified candidates for the post ."

viconia

This scenario did not happen to me but someone in my family who doesn't have an account.

She (Let's call her Joanna) works as an accounts person for a shop. So, she is rarely on the floor of the shop working on the floor.

Recently, someone from her native country (who she knows) got employment with the shop. In the canteen (when no one is around) they speak their own language to each other. However, when people are around, they speak english as both of them consider it rude and are very considerate of people around them.

Yesterday, an assistant manager requested that she not speak her native language with this other employee. Joanna is really conscious about this and she said that she cannot recall soemone being in the room/coffee area and apologised if she offended anyone. The assistant manager advised her that the person who "overheard her", told someone else who in turn told the assistant manager. As a Result, Joanna feels like this is her fault and has asked around and apologised to anyone she offended. She asked her friend if they remember noticing anyone around the room when they spoke and her friend said he cannot recall that either.

THis wasn't done infront of customers, but in their coffee room/canteen area (which is quite small).

Is this allowed? Can you be told what you can and cannot do? They don't discuss work and if other people are there, they speak in english. I think this is a violation of.. well, something but I'm not sure what. However, it just sounds wrong to tell someone they can't speak their native language on their unpaid lunch hour when no one is around??

daithi09

I'm sure if it's an unpaid lunch hour they can leave the premises and speak whatever they want...

viconia

Yeah, okay, fair enough. But what I mean is, they don't speak their own language when people are arond but someone overheard them.

I'm in the process of getting their HR booklet and their terms regarding this to see if it's noted.

daithi09 wrote: »

I'm sure if it's an unpaid lunch hour they can leave the premises and speak whatever they want...

Mrs OBumble

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Are not all teachers supposed to be able to speak Irish?

Foreign trained ones are allowed to work for a few years before they have to prove their competency in the language.

And there are other people in a school (SNA, secretary, janitor, parent-helper, etc) who aren't required to speak it.

Mrs OBumble

viconia wrote: »

Yeah, okay, fair enough. But what I mean is, they don't speak their own language when people are arond but someone overheard them.

Well either someone was hiding in a cupboard one day, or perhaps they did just make a mistake and speak whatever-ish when someone else was around.

(Or maybe someone's just trying to cause trouble, guessing that they do speak it, and complaining on the off-chance. If that's the case, I'd say she's got a lot more trouble heading her way.)

Either way, an employer can make all sorts of reasonable requests inside and outside work time, eg go in via the staff door, don't wear your uniform in the street, speak in the country's official language when you're on the premises.

imitation

I have some danish speaking friends who always make a point of speaking English if a non dane is present, to them its good manners. I'm not hugely pushed about it myself, but I can see why they think that, because your basically excluded from the conversation. Its all about context though, I dont there's any problem with a table of all polish people speaking polish in the canteen, but if they dont mix with other people then cliques will form very quickly.

And the company was 100% wrong to issue written warnings for something that is not specified anywhere. Not to mention the fact it would probably only be worth a written warning if it was a constant repeat offence in a blatent way as opposed to a first "offence".

Jim2007

Milk & Honey wrote: »

What about this case (Anita Groener v Minister for Education) 1987

"3 It is apparent from the documents before the Court that, according to Section 23(1 ) and ( 2 ) of the Vocational Education Act 1930, the Minister' s approval is required concerning the numbers, qualifications, remuneration and appointment of all employees of each vocational education committee . Exercising his powers under that Act, the Minister adopted, inter alia, two administrative measures .

4 First, pursuant to Memorandum V7, which entered into force on 1 September 1974, the competent committee may not appoint a person to a permanent full-time post in certain areas of teaching, including in particular art, unless that person holds the Ceard-Teastas Gaeilge ( certificate of proficiency in the Irish language ) or has an equivalent qualification recognized by the Minister . In that memorandum, the Minister also reserved the right to exempt candidates from countries other than Ireland from the obligation to know Irish, provided that there were no other fully qualified candidates for the post ."

Yes and if you took the time to read the entire judgement plus the related related memos and clarification documents issued afterwards, you would also know that it is limited to a situation where the objective was to encourage the use of the Irish language - a minority language which is in danger of dying out, it was on that basis alone that it was accepted and of course it only applies to teachers....

In order to have even the remotest chance in getting something like this to fly, I would expect that the employer would have show in some way that he was trying to promote the use of Irish at work!

Jim.

Captain Havoc

I never had an issue with my staff speaking their native language. Most of the time they're talking rubbish anyway just the same as we do. I would ask anyone who critises the foreigners for using their native language to take a step back and put themselves in their shoes, if you were abroad and working with other native English speakers, what would you actually do? I can assure you the answer isn't speak that countries language all the time you're in work. If companies have this problem, don't hire foreigners, simple and that's the problem irradicated. If you hire foreigners, this will be an issue which I feel you just have to accept. I personally spoke English but I also learned both French and German while living in Switzerland and France.

LegacyUser

Hi, I am Lithuanian and I am experiencing a language problem in work too. I was reading all your comments with some I agree with some I do not. Just would like to explain why foreign people chose to speak in there native language, because we are far from home and we better understand each other when we speak in our language, also some our expression are different and not translatable in English. I speak fluently English,Russian and Lithuanian so I could say that English very poor language,to say in my own language one English word could mean 3-6 Lithuanians word, sometimes I am not enough of words them i want to express my self in English, also English sentences you start from one end to another,in our language if we translate word by word that sentence will loose meaning, so when we speak we have to put your expression in opposite direction.Theres a lot of grammar reasons. And I do not think what we speak about our work mates on the brakes, just it would be very rude. Also most of foreign people speak about there family's,home and other problems.
My boss asked me do I speak English language at home with my child and my husband, I said no....she was shocked why not?...why should I forget my native language just because I left my Country? so for that reason we are very happy to speak our language just because we have it and we can use it. Also in our country's in work places always was multicultural staff people from Poland, Russia,Latvia and other,so we never had a problem with it if they spoke in there native language.All Eastern European country's has the borders with other country's, so we learning more then one language. Just because people do want not to learn other languages ,You can expect all world speak just in English. Same boss what I was talking before , she went to Holland to find new supplies , in warehouse the shop assistant did not speak English , so she made big deal how she could not communicate with her, but my boss was in Holland so she should learn couple words to get her around. So I do understand what some people get angry and think we are talking about them in our native language, but it is there fault, not knowing more languages it not our fault.