Yorkie bit my young daughter. what now?

convert

When I was a child, probably about 2, we got a CKC puppy and she was great. Really child friendly and put up with a huge amount of 'affection' from me. However, one day I took it too far and hurt her, and she gave me a tiny nip on the arm. My mum saw it happen (it happened so quickly she couldn't intervene to prevent it), chastised the dog, and then chastised me for hurting the dog, and told me to apologise to her. That was the only incident where she ever nipped anybody, adult or child, and I learned a valuable lesson about being careful and gentle with animals.

At three and a half, your daughter is old enough to learn a lesson like this. She should have learned that there can be consequences if she's rough or inconsiderate with animals (and also people). Unfortunately neither you nor your OH witnessd the incident, so you don't know for sure what happened, nor could you have intervened and told your daughter that the puppy nipped her because she had hurt it (if that was the case).

I would strongly recommend supervising all contact between your daughters and the puppy, and work on getting them to 'grow up' together and working on their behaviour towards each other. By watching the girls interact with the dog and observing its reaction, you should be quickly able to get a feel for whether the dog nipped because your daughter hurt it, or if it actually bit her for no reason. Given your information thus far, I would say it was probably the former.

Jet Set

paulrossiter wrote: »

thanks everyone for your advice and comments. has really helped to get a neutral opinion. I think i'm going to try and keep my little girl separte from the dog for the near future as much as possible and put him in for some training classes.

Keeping them apart will most likely cause more problems they need to learn how to interact and thier limitations! Have a look at the dog wisperer on the telly you can learn a lot about how the doggie mind perceives things!

T-Square

Tranceypoo wrote: »

Seriously, the 'cats'n'dogs home' as you call it, isn't a hotel where you pay for their board, every single one in the country is bursting at the seams, giving them a bit of money 'towards the maintenance of the animal' wouldn't really help them. The owner following the sensible advice on here given by Andrea & Tilly is the right path to take.
As for 'kippy' giving it the bullet, jesus christ I despair.
Luckily the original poster sounds more sensible than to take that sort of advice.

Factually, the cats'n'dogs home are always very appreciative of donations.
Shows what you know!

Redneck Reject

I've a 2.5 year old daughter whose been brought up with some of the bigger breeds(Blue Heeler,Kerry Blue,and Cocker Spaniels)And from day one I would teach her to not be rough with the dogs and explain what would happen in kiddie terms if she did.And she never was anything but respectful and gentle with them and they were to her in turn.
The only time any of them nipped her was to herd her back in the yard,and even then they were as gentle as anything,she didn't cry,actually laughed and no marks.
Point I'm making is,there is more training the kids involved than there is training the dog.sounds like your dog just got excited and accidently nipped her,would imagine if it was being aggressive then there would be more of a mark and wailing from the kid.
Maybe spend more time with both the kid and the dog and explain to your kid how to handle the dog better.The dog is only 6 months old,what have you taught it about living in your household?Bit quick to target the dog and wanting to get rid of it over one incident.Maybe the kid was holding the dog too tight?

Noopti

kippy wrote: »

Personally, I'm not a fan of dogs in urban environments, but in the right location and with the right treatment they are a great asset to have, however ALL dogs and children interactions need to be closely monitored.

Give me a break. :rolleyes:

Obviously you see dogs as purely working animals, or "assets". This thread is about a pet, so with all due respect your opinion on the matter is pretty much irrelevant.

paulrossiter

i have heard of the dog whisperer but we don't have Sky. i'll hunt around on the web and see if i can find episodes.

sionnaic

Jet Set wrote: »

I grow up with the belief that dogs see us as part of a pack and there for they need to find there place in the pecking order if you know what I am getting at. You dog may have just been playing or may have been finding his place in the pack, in either case your child needs to slap the dog when this happen or even growls at her. The dog will then know that his place is at the bottom of the pack. I have had this experience myself both when growing up and now with my own kids and dogs. this behavior in my opinion needs to be nipped in the bud!(pardon the pun)

Slap??!! I don't think so.
That just teaches the child that violence is an acceptable response and it also teaches the puppy that the child and / or people's hands in general are to be feared. Plus a child slapping a pup the size of a yorkie could really hurt him. A loud "no" or "ah ah ah" or clap of the hands (though that might be hard for a 3 year old) would be much better. Really a parent / adult should be there to "nip it in the bud" with a non-violent reaction and it shouldn't be left to the child to discipline a puppy.

Jet Set

When I said "slap" I did not mean inflict injuries. I ment hard enough to let the dog know thats not on, yet not leave it scared for life. also you will only need to do this once or twice and only when this behavoir happens ie "nip it in the bud" As I said it worked when I was growing up and 4 years ago with my own kids, We have always had dogs.

paulrossiter

I think my partner is too soft on the dog but i guess i'll just go to the classes to find out the right way. Can anyone recommend the best classes to go to in the Dublin area. (i'm in Dublin West)

caseyann

paulrossiter wrote: »

i have heard of the dog whisperer but we don't have Sky. i'll hunt around on the web and see if i can find episodes.

Here is a few,

http://www.google.ie/search?q=dog+whisperer+on+puppies&hl=en&prmd=v&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=rTx1TNPdF9K84Aa2n4y4Bg&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CCwQqwQwAg

gowayuwilya

one word for any dog that bites kids...bang bang!

cocker5

paulrossiter wrote: »

thanks everyone for your advice and comments. has really helped to get a neutral opinion. I think i'm going to try and keep my little girl separte from the dog for the near future as much as possible and put him in for some training classes.

Ok, first off... please dont panic.

Personally its a very bad idea to keep your child and your dog seperate, it wont work and it will lead to serious problems down the line.

can i ask you what was the situation where the dog bite your child??
Was he being pcked up by your child? Did he just randomly go over and bite your child etc??

i find the idea of "getting rid" of your dog quiet upsetting to be honest...

You need to explain the full situation fo how your child came to be bitten by your dog?? then people can give you solid advice. :rolleyes:

paulrossiter

Harsh!

kippy

Noopti wrote: »

Give me a break. :rolleyes:

Obviously you see dogs as purely working animals, or "assets". This thread is about a pet, so with all due respect your opinion on the matter is pretty much irrelevant.

My opinion is as relevant as your own.
I do not only see dogs as working animals (although that is the environment I was brought up in). These "working animals were also pets to the family and very loyal and rewarding ones at that. However I dont agree that certain environments are ideal or even good environments to have a dog in. Urban apartments or small houses with small gardens are NOT ideal for dogs in my opinion. I think many would agree with this - even the OP by the looks of it.
I am also very aware of the issues around dogs biting kids, I simply made the point of what happened in the past in the area where I was brought up while also highlighting that looking back, it was not perhaps the best way to deal with these issues.

paulrossiter

cocker5 wrote: »

Ok, first off... please dont panic.

Personally its a very bad idea to keep your child and your dog seperate, it wont work and it will lead to serious problems down the line.

can i ask you what was the situation where the dog bite your child??
Was he being pcked up by your child? Did he just randomly go over and bite your child etc??

i find the idea of "getting rid" of your dog quiet upsetting to be honest...

You need to explain the full situation fo how your child came to be bitten by your dog?? then people can give you solid advice. :rolleyes:

As i said, i didn't see it myself but i think it was due to the pup being over-excited.

As i also said "get rid" means sell or give away.

sionnaic

DataMining wrote: »

Do you have chorus or sky? theres a show one of the discovery channels called THE DOG WHISPERER. If you havent im sure you can find episodes of it here online, maybe on sidereel.com

Anyway the host of it, Ceser Millan is a dog trainer and nearly every second episode is about puppy obedience that might interest you.

Chances are your dog is hyper from having no human contact during the day and is not getting enough exercise.

I wouldn't bother with the dog whisperer - his methods are held by most decent modern dog trainers to be completely outdated and unnecessarily harsh. He's a fan of the "flooding" technique to make a dog get over his fears - basically forcing the dog into the situation that terrifies them most until the dog is overwhelmed and shuts down so it appears to behave itself. Check out the "quotes from experts" section at the bottom of this page here: http://www.urbandawgs.com/divided_profession.html
Anyway I digress - but basically it's a short term solution that causes long term problems. Check out Ian Dunbar instead - much much better - one of his books on puppy training is even available for free as a pdf:
http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/AFTER%20You%20Get%20Your%20Puppy.pdf

cocker5

paulrossiter wrote: »

As i said, i didn't see it myself but i think it was due to the pup being over-excited.

As i also said "get rid" means sell or give away.

ok well for whats it worth here's what i think...

your puppy is 6 months old.... which in dog terms is very young... puppies scratch, nip, jump around, wreck things nad in general are over excited until around 18 months.

As you said it looks like a scratch etc... so maybe your child bent down to pet the dog and the dog jumped or scratched etc... the fact is your dog is not a vicious "child killer" he is a puppy. He requires lots of training and direction to learn that this behavhiour isnt acceptable etc...

http://www.tagnrye.com/

on the other hand i totally understand that you are concerned for your child, now i dont mean this is a harsh way or anything but she too is young and needs to learn direction etc... she needs to learn not to pick up your dog, or push your dog too far... they both have to learn mutual respect etc...

getting "rid" of your dog will solve nothing.. when you get another dog unless you learn to train him/her and to show your daughter how to treat a dog etc... you will have the same problem etc..

I got bitten by our dogs when i was younger... now not savaged just nipped when i pulled their tails too hard to hurt them when lifting them up etc.. my mum would go mental at me for annoying / hurting the dog...

at the end of the day, your dog is an animal, he should be played with and loved but not tormented (if even by accident).

Yourkies are small breeds and therefore can be defensive (most small breeds are thats why they yap all the time), maybe by mistake your child hurt the dog or squeezed him or something, he was just doing whats natural. Now please dont get me wrong its not ok for your dog to snap at your little girl but you need to teach everybody respect and boundaries for each other.

does your puppy growl at your child?

sionnaic

paulrossiter wrote: »

I think my partner is too soft on the dog but i guess i'll just go to the classes to find out the right way. Can anyone recommend the best classes to go to in the Dublin area. (i'm in Dublin West)

Haven't been myself but I've heard Dog Training Ireland are supposed to be good - in Dublin 11
http://www.dogtrainingireland.ie

seamus

sionnaic wrote: »

I wouldn't bother with the dog whisperer - his methods are held by most decent modern dog trainers to be completely outdated and unnecessarily harsh.

I don't think he's considered outdated, but certainly extreme. Using Cesar's techniques on a normal dog is like getting supernanny in to get your kids to eat their vegetables - it's overkill. His techniques are for dogs with severe behavioural problems, not normal dogs like the OP's.

OP, the DSPCA run puppy classes which are highly recommended. Ultimately what you have here is two children interacting - figuring out their way in the world. Just as a child will often smack another child, a puppy may occassionally nip or bite when it shouldn't (or when it should). You need to teach the puppy and the child how to behave around eachother and other dogs and people. Moving the dog away will not solve the problem - it's equally likely to happen if you get another dog and your daughter will have learned nothing.

Pups get over excited, it happens, and it'll happen again. Dogs aren't manufactured items which you throw away if they don't act the way you expect them to. If you're going to freak out and consider getting rid of the dog whenever there's any minor incident, then you would be best getting rid of the dog and never getting one again, for the dog's sake.
You said it yourself - there's a scratch on her face, no harm done. Learn from the incident and move on.

sionnaic

gowayuwilya wrote: »

one word for any dog that bites kids...bang bang!

oh for god's sake get over yourself. Attitudes like this are what make Ireland one of the worst places in Europe for animal cruelty and neglect, and the general ignorance that feeds it.
There's a massive difference between a puppy nip and a mauling. It's like comparing a child pulling your hair to getting beaten up by a fully grown man - one should be gently reprimanded and taught how act differently, and one needs to be punished and put in jail. See the difference?

andreac

Jet Set wrote: »

When I said "slap" I did not mean inflict injuries. I ment hard enough to let the dog know thats not on, yet not leave it scared for life. also you will only need to do this once or twice and only when this behavoir happens ie "nip it in the bud" As I said it worked when I was growing up and 4 years ago with my own kids, We have always had dogs.

Never, ever slap a dog, you are asking for trouble there as it can make them more aggressive and make the whole situation worse. No trainer will ever tell you to hit or slap a dog at all for anything.

cocker5

google dthis information... hints to help with your dog and child:


Puppies: Mouthing and Biting

When your puppy played with her siblings and her mama, she used her mouth. When she plays with you, she'll probably want to use her mouth until you teach her not to. Most puppies don't mean to hurt you, but those puppy teeth are very sharp and you don't have fur to protect your skin like her canine playmates had. Your puppy is motivated to mouth and bite not because she wants to hurt you, but because she thinks it will get you to play—after all, it works with other dogs! I'll suggest two effective ways to teach your puppy not to mouth and bite.

First, use the same method we just discussed to stop jumping up. If your puppy nips you, say “Ouch!” and then stand up and ignore her. If she jumps up, keep ignoring her—you can teach her not to bite and not to jump at the same time! If she bites your ankles or pulls on your pants, leave the room, ignore her until she calms down, then come back, sit down with her, play gently, and try the second method.

Second, give your puppy something else to put in her mouth besides your hand. When you pet her or play with her and she takes your hand in her mouth, gently offer her a chew toy and continue to pet her. She'll learn that hands are not for chewing, but they're great for ear scratches and belly rubs. If she insists on mouthing and biting you instead of the toy, go back to method number one.

A word about tired puppies: Puppies are like young children. Sometimes they get so tired that they're completely out of control. They're not smart enough to just go to bed, so they keep playing and getting sillier and sillier from fatigue. If your puppy has been out playing for a while and is getting more and more out of control, put her in her crate, give her a treat, and let her rest. Very often a tired puppy will protest for, oh, two minutes and then fall fast asleep.

If you're having a problem with mouthing and nipping, make sure that no one plays tug-of-war or other rough games with your pup. The last thing you want to do is encourage your puppy to grab for things or compete with people for possession of things. Teach her instead to give you toys, which you can then throw for her to retrieve. The no-roughhousing rule applies especially to children.

Interaction between children and puppies should always be supervised by a responsible adult who is close enough to intervene immediately if play gets out of hand. Don't expect a child younger than 12 or 13 to be able to apply any of the training methods I've outlined. An adult needs to be in a position to help. Children tend to react to nips by screeching, pushing the puppy away, and generally acting excited. Your puppy will think the child is playing and will probably keep jumping and nipping. The child will get more excited, things will quickly get out of hand, and someone could end up injured, frightened, or both.

puss

This has just reminded me of a time when our neighbour's dog (Cocker Spanial) bit my 7 year old son on the head. At the time I didn't have a car so my neighbour drove me to the doctor and my son needed a stich in the wound. Neighbour didn't offer to pay the doctor's fee. The dog lived his time out and never bit anyone else and nobody suggested getting ride of him.
Fast forward 20 years and we were all together for a family occasion with the children (now adults 27 & 29). My daughter said to my son "Do you remember the time you tried to pin a St. Patrick's Day badge on ????'s dog and he bit you" First I heard of this. So make sure you know what happened before you blame the dog. I have a yorkie/cross and I would never leave her alone with a young child as I know she doesn't like children. She is a rescue dog so I don't know her history.
I am sure with abit of training of both the child and the dog all should work out ok. The dog is young as are the children so they should learn how to live together without this happening again. Good Luck.

cocker5

to be very honest i actually cannot believe some of the responses i am reading... slap the dog ????, get rid of the dog???? dog would get a bullet???

I mean seriously people he is a puppy, 6 months old...

I really worry about the human race...
some posters are way more savage than this little puppy

cocker5

puss wrote: »

This has just reminded me of a time when our neighbour's dog (Cocker Spanial) bit my 7 year old son on the head. At the time I didn't have a car so my neighbour drove me to the doctor and my son needed a stich in the wound. Neighbour didn't offer to pay the doctor's fee. The dog lived his time out and never bit anyone else and nobody suggested getting ride of him.
Fast forward 20 years and we were all together for a family occasion with the children (now adults 27 & 29). My daughter said to my son "Do you remember the time you tried to pin a St. Patrick's Day badge on ????'s dog and he bit you" First I heard of this. So make sure you know what happened before you blame the dog. I have a yorkie/cross and I would never leave her alone with a young child as I know she doesn't like children. She is a rescue dog so I don't know her history.
I am sure with abit of training of both the child and the dog all should work out ok. The dog is young as are the children so they should learn how to live together without this happening again. Good Luck.

Excellent post.... these situations happen all the time...

if that happened in this age the dog would be PTS... if a child needed stiches etc... so it just shows not everything is black and white

paulrossiter

thanks everyone. really good advice in the last few posts. Obviously i know both dog and child have to be trained. It's just the fact that it only takes a split second for the damage to be done that freaks me out. And i think that no matter how much you train kids and pups, both are going to be prone to random acts of stupidity. As i said earlier- if she is left with a scar from the next bite/nip/scratch how could i live with myself? Thats really why i'm agonising over this.

suziwalsh

If I were you I would contact www.dogtrainingireland.ie you will get some advise from qualified professionals. You could join a puppy socialisation class and bring your daughters. If you are worried best to get advice from a dog behaviourist and trainer.

Also it is very difficult to raise a puppy and have a child under 5 without any accidents. But the puppy is young and easily trained.

kylith

OP, your child will have learned, unfortunately the hard way, that the dog may nip her if she pesters it. Chances are that she will be a bit more aware now.

All you can do is never, ever, ever leave them unattended again, and make sure that the child knows that the dog is not a toy, and to treat it calmly and gently.

cocker5

paulrossiter wrote: »

thanks everyone. really good advice in the last few posts. Obviously i know both dog and child have to be trained. It's just the fact that it only takes a split second for the damage to be done that freaks me out. And i think that no matter how much you train kids and pups, both are going to be prone to random acts of stupidity. As i said earlier- if she is left with a scar from the next bite/nip/scratch how could i live with myself? Thats really why i'm agonising over this.

if you start training BOTH of them now... this problem wont arise, supervise your child and your dog interacting, when you dog does something thats not acceptable say "no" in a stern voice etc... also train your daughter, tell her not to pick him up, not to pull out or him or he will bite etc... once supervised over a few months all these worries will disappear.

its no different than if your daughter falls over and hits her face off an open drawer etc (god forbid), it would be an accident... you cannot stop EVERYTHING... accidents will happen no matter how hard you try.... a stray cat or dog could also nip her etc she needs to learn respect for animals.... as the dog needs to learn manners etc.....but what you can do is eliminate possibilites etc... training both of them will help sort those out.

Seperating them is def NOT the answer either is giving him away....

TRAINING IN THE KEY

Best of luck

paulrossiter

the separating would hopefully be only temporary 'til he learns better behaviour. It's just not going to be possible to supervise them both at all times. i don't have a problem with my daughter and her mam taking the dog for a walk for example.