How realistic is a sub 5 minute mile on the track?

Woddle

ecoli wrote: »

I guess this is a nomination for me to mentor a sub 5 thread?

Absolutely, and yep there's a couple of names I can think of that would be a good addition.

Name|800m PB|1500m PB|Mile PB|5k PB|
woddle|2'31|5'14||19'25|


All those times were done last year though.

gerard65

Name|800m PB|1500m PB|Mile PB|5k PB|
woddle|2'31|5'14||19'25|
gerard65|2'32|None|5'38|19'16|

shels4ever

gerard65 wrote: »

Only two I know of on the track that whould be open to non-elites. The BHAA Trinity track meet in mid june and Irishtown at the end of July. Don't know about the rest of the country.

There is also the IMC who run a few over the summer.The graded leagues 1500m after that.

ecoli

04072511 wrote: »

I'm not off travelling until the 13th Sep and finish exams next thursday so I'd definetely be up for Time Trials in UCD the following week if thats what people want to do.

If people want a pacer maybe Thurs Sept 9th as i racing the Sat but might be a good wind up for me 5 min pace to give people an exact idea of where they are and where they need to be?

gerard65

Name|800m PB|1500m PB|Mile PB|5k PB|
woddle|2'31|5'14||19'25|


I'll just take myself out for the moment as the goal mile may be a bit soon. My plan is for a slow buildup to next summer.

ecoli

gerard65 wrote: »

Name|800m PB|1500m PB|Mile PB|5k PB|
woddle|2'31|5'14||19'25|


I'll just take myself out for the moment as the goal mile may be a bit soon. My plan is for a slow buildup to next summer.

There will be a base phase and it will be more geared towards next season but it may include XC races and that just to keep people interested. Again the TT is just to give people an idea of where they are it not a requirement

shels4ever

ecoli wrote: »

There will be a base phase and it will be more geared towards next season but it may include XC races and that just to keep people interested. Again the TT is just to give people an idea of where they are it not a requirement

I've a TT ever 6-8 weeks planned now anyway,its a handy thing to use in training when not racing.

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

Absolutely, and yep there's a couple of names I can think of that would be a good addition.

Name|800m PB|1500m PB|Mile PB|5k PB|
woddle|2'31|5'14||19'25|


All those times were done last year though.

Not planning on a spring marathon or tri?

Woddle

shels4ever wrote: »

Not planning on a spring marathon or tri?

No marathon anyway, the plan this time last year was the track for this summer so hopefully this thread will focus me a bit more.

Speedy44

ecoli wrote: »

There will be a base phase and it will be more geared towards next season but it may include XC races and that just to keep people interested. Again the TT is just to give people an idea of where they are it not a requirement

just sent you a pm Ecoli

Speedy44

Name|800m PB|1500m PB|Mile PB|5k PB|
woddle|2'31|5'14||19'25|
gerard65|2'32|None|5'38|19'16|
speedy44|2:20|4:43|5:00:23|17:41

Pisco Sour

Speedy44 wrote: »

Name|800m PB|1500m PB|Mile PB|5k PB|
woddle|2'31|5'14||19'25|
gerard65|2'32|None|5'38|19'16|
speedy44|2:20|4:43|5:00:23|17:41
04072511|2'42|5'16|5'56|21'02|

I'm not sure if I should add my name to this table as I will be in the southern hemisphere and so the track season will be at a different time to here so it would be very hard to follow the same program as everybody else. I can take my name off if needs be though.

My 800 time needs revision. I've only attempted it once, without spikes or a garmin. I'd say closer to 2'30 would be a good estimate as to what I could do at the moment.

My 1500m and 5K are both done in races, though the 1500m was many moons ago. While my Mile time was a TT, but WITH spikes and a garmin.

shels4ever

04072511 wrote: »

I'm not sure if I should add my name to this table as I will be in the southern hemisphere and so the track season will be at a different time to here so it would be very hard to follow the same program as everybody else. I can take my name off if needs be though.

My 800 time needs revision. I've only attempted it once, without spikes or a garmin. I'd say closer to 2'30 would be a good estimate as to what I could do at the moment.

My 1500m and 5K are both done in races, though the 1500m was many moons ago. While my Mile time was a TT, but WITH spikes and a garmin.

I wouldnt worry about not having a garmin, your 800m time woulnt change by having one, a good old stopwatch is all thats needed for track.

Pisco Sour

shels4ever wrote: »

I wouldnt worry about not having a garmin, your 800m time woulnt change by having one, a good old stopwatch is all thats needed for track.

You'd be surprised though. When I ran the mile the other day it was very easy to see my projected mile time, and as it dropped back closer and closer to 6.00 mins it gave me that much needed boost to kick on and get under it. You know exactly where you stand and saves you having to do calculations in your head.

shels4ever

04072511 wrote: »

You'd be surprised though. When I ran the mile the other day it was very easy to see my projected mile time, and as it dropped back closer and closer to 6.00 mins it gave me that much needed boost to kick on and get under it. You know exactly where you stand and saves you having to do calculations in your head.

Maybe just usually find that for 1 or 2 miles that i am usually close enough to the limit . If you race one you will prob go faster then you expect. Racing v's pacing . Garmin are really good for training but for sorter race i'd wear it but would only ave time time on te display.

tisnotover

04072511 wrote: »

You'd be surprised though. When I ran the mile the other day it was very easy to see my projected mile time, and as it dropped back closer and closer to 6.00 mins it gave me that much needed boost to kick on and get under it. You know exactly where you stand and saves you having to do calculations in your head.

Ran a mile race in Graded Cork Meeting this year in 5:09. Trust me, you won't me looking at your garmin in such a race, in any case it takes 0.25mile before av-pace settles out ??

Plenty of fast 400's and sets of 200's will get your time down. Use McMillan calculator and suggested training paces for Sprint workouts for these.

myflipflops

As sated before, I'm in for the challenge but will stick to a personal plan.

If you want a mentored thread, I suggest somebody approaches a coach like Dick Hooper in Raheny, Eddie McDonagh in DSD or somebody else of that ilk. I don't think there's any coach on boards that shoudl be mentoring this goal.

donothoponpop

myflipflops wrote: »

If you want a mentored thread, I suggest somebody else approaches a coach like Dick Hooper in Raheny, Eddie McDonagh in DSD or somebody else of that ilk. I don't think there's any coach on boards that shoudl be mentoring this goal.

This forum is full of great idea's, but when it comes to putting in the effort on behalf of others, there's a select few who are willing to step up to the plate. If ecoli (or someone else from here) is willing to mentor a "catch-all" program, kudos to them for doing that, and I suspect most punters will feel it was at least worth the value of what they paid for it.

myflipflops

donothoponpop wrote: »

This forum is full of great idea's, but when it comes to putting in the effort on behalf of others, there's a select few who are willing to step up to the plate. If ecoli (or someone else from here) is willing to mentor a "catch-all" program, kudos to them for doing that, and I suspect most punters will feel it was at least worth the value of what they paid for it.

With all due respect to Ecoli (and i mean that), what experience does he have coaching milers? It's great for someone to be willing to mentor or coach people. It's counter productive when they are not qualified to do so.

0404 asked previously why there is lots of discussion/advice about marathons and other long distance races on the forum bit little about the mile. The answer is that there is pretty much nobody who posts here running quick miles or coaching others to do so.

If I was in a place where I was thinking of trying for a sub 3 marathon, there are a couple of posters (Krusty etc) who you can immediately say would be qualified to advise. There is nobody who fits that bill for the mile.

shels4ever

myflipflops wrote: »

With all due respect to Ecoli (and i mean that), what experience does the he have coaching milers? It;s great for someone to be willing to mentor or coach people. It's counter productive when they are not qualified to do so.

0404 asked previously why there is lots of discussion/advice about marathons and other long sitance races on the forum bit little about the mile. The answer is that there is pretty much nobody who posts here running quick miles or coaching others to do so.

If I was in a place where I was thinking of trying for a sub 3 marathon, there are a couple of posters (Krusty etc) who you can immediately say would be wualified to advise. There is nobody who fits that bill for the mile.

There would be one poster that would prob be able to but not sure he would have the time to do this, too busy coaching his club runners. It's a hard thing to coach online too as everyone would have different aspects that they need to work on, so a thread with people updating their progress would be good, but not sure coaching thread woould work myself.

ecoli

myflipflops wrote: »

With all due respect to Ecoli (and i mean that), what experience does he have coaching milers? It's great for someone to be willing to mentor or coach people. It's counter productive when they are not qualified to do so.

0404 asked previously why there is lots of discussion/advice about marathons and other long distance races on the forum bit little about the mile. The answer is that there is pretty much nobody who posts here running quick miles or coaching others to do so.

If I was in a place where I was thinking of trying for a sub 3 marathon, there are a couple of posters (Krusty etc) who you can immediately say would be qualified to advise. There is nobody who fits that bill for the mile.

I understand your concern and i know where you are coming from regarding coaching. Had the same concerns with the start of the sub three marathon thread and i think the only difference here would be the fact that this is actually an area which i have more experience than the marathon. My PBs are pretty modest in terms of quick miler times (4.21 1500m and 4.41 mile) but i have had alot of interaction with top miler coaches.
That being said that does not make me qualified to coach the mile and people
would better going to clubs who have coaches with a track record (no pun intended)
The idea here was to just give people who either cant or do not want to take the club avenue for what ever reason an alternative or just a little guidance

ecoli

shels4ever wrote: »

There would be one poster that would prob be able to but not sure he would have the time to do this, too busy coaching his club runners. It's a hard thing to coach online too as everyone would have different aspects that they need to work on, so a thread with people updating their progress would be good, but not sure coaching thread woould work myself.

Good point again it could be used by people as a guide rather than a set plan if people wanted.
Again it was other posters who suggested the idea and if people dont feel it is for them that grand progress updates can be the purpose of the thread. I can give anyone who wants advice even as a private means if they are completely lost they can PM me or what ever or if anyone else feels they better suited feel free to jump in here. Like i said i am aware of a few people who have some quicker times to there name i am not trying to hog the thread

shels4ever

ecoli wrote: »

Good point again it could be used by people as a guide rather than a set plan if people wanted.
Again it was other posters who suggested the idea and if people dont feel it is for them that grand progress updates can be the purpose of the thread. I can give anyone who wants advice even as a private means if they are completely lost they can PM me or what ever or if anyone else feels they better suited feel free to jump in here. Like i said i am aware of a few people who have some quicker times to there name i am not trying to hog the thread

Yep I think its a good idea to see how people go about it, and how many people actually reach the goal or how much they can take from their times over time. Depending on the timeline etc it could be a very long living thread as if i stayed injury free and could train the way I want to it would be a 12 month plan at least and still might only run 5:30.

myflipflops

ecoli wrote: »

I understand your concern and i know where you are coming from regarding coaching. Had the same concerns with the start of the sub three marathon thread and i think the only difference here would be the fact that this is actually an area which i have more experience than the marathon. My PBs are pretty modest in terms of quick miler times (4.21 1500m and 4.41 mile) but i have had alot of interaction with top miler coaches.
That being said that does not make me qualified to coach the mile and people
would better going to clubs who have coaches with a track record (no pun intended)
The idea here was to just give people who either cant or do not want to take the club avenue for what ever reason an alternative or just a little guidance

Fair points.

I have lots of respect for your coaching posts and you would probably do a good job mentoring a mile one.

I just believe an experienced coach would be the ideal way to go with this type of challenge.

Obviously, counter to that, is the question of how can a young coach get experience without athletes to advise!!

You should do it and let others chip in advice where it's necessary.

kaymin

myflipflops wrote: »

0404 asked previously why there is lots of discussion/advice about marathons and other long distance races on the forum bit little about the mile. The answer is that there is pretty much nobody who posts here running quick miles or coaching others to do so.

I don't see why someone has to be running quick miles in order to coach someone else to run quick miles. If someone is interested enough they can acquire the knowledge they need through study and research. I think I'd prefer my coach to be upto date on the latest training techniques rather than perhaps stuck in his own ways. As an example, the following article was a bit of an eye opener for me as it casts doubt on the usefulness of the LSR:

"Although LSD training will increase fat metabolism and endurance, it will limit your endurance at marathon paces. Long, slow running will only teach you to run slowly for long periods."

From:
http://www.marathonguide.com/training/articles/MandBFuelOnFat.cfm

myflipflops

As an aside, my challenge will start Tuesady at the earliest.

I'm currently holed up as Hurricane Earl is hitting. Probably not able to get out of the villa for 36 hours.

myflipflops

kaymin wrote: »

I don't see why someone has to be running quick miles in order to coach someone else to run quick miles.]

My quote is someone running quick miles themselves or has trained another person to do so. In either scenario, they know what it takes to achieve the goal.

oldrunner

I've been running sub 5 minute 5 miles for 25 years (I'm 50 - there's a bit of a gap in running in my late 30's / early 40's). This summer I got 4:50.05 in a Dublin Graded and 2:08.35 in a Graded 800. My PBs are a lot better but that's 21 years ago.

One thing I observe from runners used to running longer road races (5k and up) is that they don't understand the will that is needed to maintain a 74 second a lap pace - one is dead easy, 2 is really easy, 3 is tricky as the lactic builds and 4 can be very hard work if you haven't done the right training.

In order to get my times, and be competitive as a Master, I train 6 to 7 days a week. I put in 45 - 50 miles over the winter, including one weekly session and one tempo run. Come Spring, I am down to 2 speed sessions a week (or a race replacing one of the sessions) and still run 6/7 days a week.

But I'm an Old Runner so it's hard because of my age. 4:50 is 88% of the world's best for a 50 year old but for a 30 year old a 4:50 mile is only 77% (by way of comparison an age graded marathon run at 77% of world best is 2:42 for a 30 year old).

I firmly believe that most people in their 20s / early 30s with normal fitness levels can break 5 minutes if they put reasonable work in. Huge improvements are available - you can know lumps off times. however, I question most runners willingness. It's so much easier to run steady miles than calf-straining track sessions.

Anyway, good luck to all of you taking on the challenge. I'll be interested to see how you compare it to the work needed to run Marathons.

menoscemo

I am definately interested in this, but currently training for DCM.
Is it compatible to train for both at the same time?

gerard65

menoscemo wrote: »

I am definately interested in this, but currently training for DCM.
Is it compatible to train for both at the same time?

No, the marathon is your goal so don't let any other distractions get in the way, the marathon is a very unforgiving beast. After its over then sit down and see where you want to go.