How realistic is a sub 5 minute mile on the track?

menoscemo

gerard65 wrote: »

No, the marathon is your goal so don't let any other distractions get in the way, the marathon is a very unforgiving beast. After its over then sit down and see where you want to go.

I Know, I know, But I'd love to see what I can run a mile in. Have a feeling that I could get pretty close to 5:30 at the moment.

Anyway, Woddle is training for DCM, Tri's, halves and he is doing this too. What is his goal????

gerard65

menoscemo wrote: »

I Know, I know, But I'd love to see what I can run a mile in. Have a feeling that I could get pretty close to 5:30 at the moment.

Anyway, Woddle is training for DCM, Tri's, halves and he is doing this too. What is his goal????

Superman wears woddle PJ's.
You won't get a chance to run a mile race till next summer anyway (unless you count the goal mile at xmas but is it too crowded to get a time?. Your better off getting Oct out of the way first, then after a rest start training for a couple of xc races for Feb or Mar, then you can start on the mile for summer.

shels4ever

gerard65 wrote: »

Superman wears woddle PJ's.
You won't get a chance to run a mile race till next summer anyway (unless you count the goal mile at xmas but is it too crowded to get a time?. Your better off getting Oct out of the way first, then after a rest start training for a couple of xc races for Feb or Mar, then you can start on the mile for summer.

yep i'd agree marathon to mile is a big change. But think my plan is basically to race from 800m to 5k next year. So wont be doing mile specific training. But for now its just going to be half mara and XC for the next few months.

I think raheny have a mile either before or after christmas too so maybe a good chance to break your road realy time there.

BeepBeep67

I'm in for this anyway - probably could have done it this Summer.
I'd like to hit it early in the Summer off solid base work and some sharpening - there's usually a Spar Mile challenge around the end of May.

Name|800m PB|1500m PB|Mile PB|5k PB|
woddle|2'31|5'14||19'25|
gerard65|2'32|None|5'38|19'16|
speedy44|2:20|4:43|5:00:23|17:41
04072511|2'42|5'16|5'56|21'02
BeepBeep67|2'22 (M40)|4'57 (M40)|5'10 (M40)|17'53 (M40)

Krusty_Clown

Really enjoyed oldrunner's post. Very inspirational and valid (ticking off large numbers of miles at a consistent pace being far easier than lung-busting all out shorter races).

Question: How do you run a mile?
Do you aim for consistent pacing on every lap, gradually increasing the tolerance to ever-increasing pain, or would you start slightly slower than goal pace, and hope to pick it up towards the end of the race?

Would love to try one of these some time (with suitable training), but I'm pretty sure that running long is where it's at for me (it's certainly where the heart is). For my current marathon training, I'm doing 600m 1,200m and 1,600m intervals at around 5:30/mile. Wondering how far I would be away from a sub 5 minute mile. Have never run on a track (well, I did one lap around 4 years ago!), so have no shorter distance references.

gerard65

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Really enjoyed oldrunner's post. Very inspirational and valid (ticking off large numbers of miles at a consistent pace being far easier than lung-busting all out shorter races).

Question: How do you run a mile?
Do you aim for consistent pacing on every lap, gradually increasing the tolerance to ever-increasing pain, or would you start slightly slower than goal pace, and hope to pick it up towards the end of the race?

Would love to try one of these some time (with suitable training), but I'm pretty sure that running long is where it's at for me (it's certainly where the heart is). For my current marathon training, I'm doing 600m 1,200m and 1,600m intervals at around 5:30/mile. Wondering how far I would be away from a sub 5 minute mile. Have never run on a track (well, I did one lap around 4 years ago!), so have no shorter distance references.

I was always told even pace was the best tactic and I'd imagine physiologly (spelling) its the way to go. If you can get to 1200m on time you've a good chance of achieving, but its the third lap thats always the killer, if the pace drops too much on this lap you'll have very little chance of gaining back time.
I'd say you'd have no problem running a sub 5 with a bit of focused training.

Speedy44

gerard65 wrote: »

No, the marathon is your goal so don't let any other distractions get in the way, the marathon is a very unforgiving beast. After its over then sit down and see where you want to go.

While marathon & mile training are 2 separate things altogether, there's nothing stopping you giving the mile a bash one day while training for the marathon. I know thats what I did last year (and missed it by .23 of a second !). I am always torn between both, if you asked me which would I prefer to do, get a sub 3 or a sub 5, well, I'm not 100% sure how I'd answer, probably both :-) I think though that I want to get the sub 3 out of the way first, but as I get older I do think that it will be harder to get under the 5 minutes. Last year there was a series of 'Magic Miles' in Galway throughtout the year, with the last one been in early October. Havn't hear if it will be run again this year but imagine that it will.

secman

speedy44, should that read speedy45 now ?

Secman

Speedy44

secman wrote: »

speedy44, should that read speedy45 now ?

Secman

Funny, my daughter just said the same thing to me yesterday :rolleyes:

menoscemo

Speedy44 wrote: »

While marathon & mile training are 2 separate things altogether, there's nothing stopping you giving the mile a bash one day while training for the marathon. I know thats what I did last year (and missed it by .23 of a second !). I am always torn between both, if you asked me which would I prefer to do, get a sub 3 or a sub 5, well, I'm not 100% sure how I'd answer, probably both :-) I think though that I want to get the sub 3 out of the way first, but as I get older I do think that it will be harder to get under the 5 minutes. Last year there was a series of 'Magic Miles' in Galway throughtout the year, with the last one been in early October. Havn't hear if it will be run again this year but imagine that it will.

Thats what I was thinking. There are lot's of VO2 max session in the last 6 weeks of my Programme (P&D) and I am sure it would do no harm to do a mile time trial instead of one of them.
@ Gerard, Obviously I would continue with the marathon training until the last week of October and start concentrating on the mile afterwards.

BeepBeep67

menoscemo wrote: »

Thats what I was thinking. There are lot's of VO2 max session in the last 6 weeks of my Programme (P&D) and I am sure it would do no harm to do a mile time trial instead of one of them.
@ Gerard, Obviously I would continue with the marathon training until the last week of October and start concentrating on the mile afterwards.

You could always start with a fast 1st mile in the Marathon - no harm to have a few minutes in the bag

menoscemo

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

You could always start with a fast 1st mile in the Marathon - no harm to have a few minutes in the bag

Sounds like my normal pacing strategy.

gerard65

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

You could always start with a fast 1st mile in the Marathon - no harm to have a few minutes in the bag

Makes as much sense as running a time trial for a distance you hav'nt started training for.
Menopause, so you think running a mile TT while training for a marathon can't do any harm? Will you still think that when your calf goes ping? Your VO2MAX sessions are not speed sessions and you won't (I hope) be running them a mile pace. A few weeks ago you would'nt run a mountain race in case it put your marathon at risk and yet now you want to run a mile TT with no prior training? Also what exactly do you think you'll learn by doing this? Concentrate on your marathon and when thats done decide what you want to do then but jumping around between one distance and another could leave you hurt.

menoscemo

gerard65 wrote: »

Makes as much sense as running a time trial for a distance you hav'nt started training for.
Menopause, so you think running a mile TT while training for a marathon can't do any harm? Will you still think that when your calf goes ping? Your VO2MAX sessions are not speed sessions and you won't (I hope) be running them a mile pace. A few weeks ago you would'nt run a mountain race in case it put your marathon at risk and yet now you want to run a mile TT with no prior training? Also what exactly do you think you'll learn by doing this? Concentrate on your marathon and when thats done decide what you want to do then but jumping around between one distance and another could leave you hurt.

<puts hands over ears> nananananana; I Can't hear you

Yeah, you are probaby right; that said I am running Rathfarnham 5k as a kind of goal race and I haven't been training for that either but expect to set a PB

shels4ever

menoscemo wrote: »

<puts hands over ears> nananananana; I Can't hear you

Yeah, you are probaby right; that said I am running Rathfarnham 5k as a kind of goal race and I haven't been training for that either but expect to set a PB

I wouldnt risk a mile TT in the build up to the marathon, you'd be pushing your self right to the limit and any little niggle could cause a problem. Lots of time after the marathon . Ypu have put in a solid years training now in the build up to the marathon would be terrible if something went wrong .

myflipflops

Name|800m PB|1500m PB|Mile PB|5k PB|
woddle|2'31|5'14||19'25|
gerard65|2'32|None|5'38|19'16|
speedy44|2:20|4:43|5:00:23|17:41
04072511|2'42|5'16|5'56|21'02
BeepBeep67|2'22 (M40)|4'57 (M40)|5'10 (M40)|17'53 (M40)
myflipflops|xxxx|3.56|xxxx|15.12


In for this. My pbs are from maybe 5 years ago and at least 5 stone ago so they are meaningless. Will start a log this evening.

shels4ever

I'm the same boat as you also, but my pb's are from a previous life and are no way near yours, about 4 stone would need to be lost in order to get anywhere near the 5 min mark, but i'm not going to set that time as a goal just try to run as fast as possible next year over 1 mile to 5k

shels4ever

Name|800m PB|1500m PB|Mile PB|5k PB|
woddle|2'31|5'14||19'25|
gerard65|2'32|None|5'38|19'16|
speedy44|2:20|4:43|5:00:23|17:41
04072511|2'42|5'16|5'56|21'02
BeepBeep67|2'22 (M40)|4'57 (M40)|5'10 (M40)|17'53 (M40)
myflipflops|xxxx|3.56|xxxx|15.12
shesl4ever|2.07|4:22|xxxx|20:32

opus

Was reading the thread with interest but cause I'm pretty new to running didn't have a good picture of what a 5-min mile was like especially since any training I've done has been in km and only for the marathon distance.

My training session for Berlin today was 5x1m intervals so I pushed a bit harder for the middle mile & managed it in 6:19. Found it pretty tough going tbh, figure if it was a race & I only had to do one it might be possible to get to ~6:00 but getting to sub-5 would be a whole other ballgame :eek:

Not for me I think but best of luck to everyone trying

gerard65

I wonder was to OP reading Runners World before starting this thread:). This months (oct) has a feature on the mile with tips on racing and a 8 week program.
Its interesting how the mile used to be THE race, especially during the Coe/Ovett era when they seemed to swap the record every week.

Pisco Sour

gerard65 wrote: »

I wonder was to OP reading Runners World before starting this thread:). This months (oct) has a feature on the mile with tips on racing and a 8 week program.
Its interesting how the mile used to be THE race, especially during the Coe/Ovett era when they seemed to swap the record every week.

Haha I didnt read it, but I was reading over the Irishrunner Magazine Annual that I bought last December and in it there was an article saying "Make 2010 the year of the Mile" or something along those lines. At the time I bought the magazine I was in the middle of Marathon training but when I read back through the magazine a couple of weeks ago I paid more attention to it.

Yep the Mile was THE race and long before the Coe/Ovett/Cram saga! Goes all the way back to Bannister/ John Landy/ Herb Elliot/ Jim Ryun/ Filbert Baye/ John Walker. This is why the 1500m was always the Blue Ribboned event at Olympic Games and the Mile being the most glamourous away from the championships. Sadly things have changed in the last 6 years (since Hicham El Guerrouj retired) and the 1500m/ Mile has lost its glamour an awful lot.

There was a great documentary on youtube about the progression of the World Mile Record since Bannister broke 4 minutes, but I cant seem to find it now. It must have been taken down!

Here's a good clip though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpnFS62KVlM
This record still stands today.

oldrunner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Question: How do you run a mile?
Do you aim for consistent pacing on every lap, gradually increasing the tolerance to ever-increasing pain, or would you start slightly slower than goal pace, and hope to pick it up towards the end of the race?

Most people would advise on trying to run as even a pace as possible. However, very few races actually get run completely even as races are usually very tactical.

One reason I love 800m to mile racing is the fact that you have to think your way through the entire race - how is the pace, am I getting boxed in, should I hold the line in Lane 1 or move out, when should I kick for home, when is my competitor going to push, etc? Typically, in the longer races, there is very little thinking - find a good rhythm and hold your pace.

The most typical mile (or 1500m race) starts a little fast, then settles in Lap 2, Lap 3 is about holding the pace, and then on the last lap you can usually make up a second or two because of the fast finish. So, for a sub 5 minute mile, it might go 72, 75, 75, 73. The most important thing is not to blow up in Lap 1 by going too fast - you have a chance of recovering time from a slow opening lap but almost no chance of making a good time of a very fast one.

dna_leri

Name|800m PB|1500m PB|Mile PB|5k PB|
woddle|2'31|5'14||19'25|
gerard65|2'32|None|5'38|19'16|
speedy44|2:20|4:43|5:00:23|17:41
04072511|2'42|5'16|5'56|21'02
BeepBeep67|2'22 (M40)|4'57 (M40)|5'10 (M40)|17'53 (M40)
dna_leri|2:25 (M40)|5:07 (M40)|5:28 (M40)|19:36 (M40)
shels4ever|2:07|4:22|xxxx|20:32
myflipflops|xxxx|3.56|xxxx|15.12


My times are all from last year or 2008, just coming off the back of a serious injury now, but this will give me something to aim for next year. I believe most runners can achieve 5 minute mile but its a bit harder for those of us past our best.

robinph

Name|800m PB|1500m PB|Mile PB|5k PB|
woddle|2'31|5'14||19'25|
gerard65|2'32|None|5'38|19'16|
speedy44|2:20|4:43|5:00:23|17:41
04072511|2'42|5'16|5'56|21'02
BeepBeep67|2'22 (M40)|4'57 (M40)|5'10 (M40)|17'53 (M40)
dna_leri|2:25 (M40)|5:07 (M40)|5:28 (M40)|19:36 (M40)
shels4ever|2:07|4:22|xxxx|20:32
myflipflops|xxxx|3.56|xxxx|15.12
robinph|2:13|4:58|5:15|17:39

All except the 5km are from May '09, and I've not been near a track since. I think I'm a bit slower at the moment, but with just a bit better pacing I could have knocked chunks off each of the track times as I tended to just go haring off too fast at the start.

Pisco Sour

robinph wrote: »

All except the 5km are from May '09, and I've not been near a track since. I think I'm a bit slower at the moment, but with just a bit better pacing I could have knocked chunks off each of the track times as I tended to just go haring off too fast at the start.

If 2:13 is your 800 time with poor pacing then I'd like to see your best if you got you tactics spot on. Thats some fast running. Seems like there are a lot of people on here more suited to shorter distances (myself included) yet still do marathons regardless!

Pisco Sour

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qthi7ZnNdAA

This one goes back to 1975, in Kingston, Jamaica. The "Dream Mile" as it was called, when Filbert Bayi held off Marti Liquori and in the process claimed the World Record. In 3rd place was Eamonn Coghlan who recorded a 3.53 to claim the European Record which had lasted for nearly 10 years up until this race. This is the mile back in its hay day!

robinph

04072511 wrote: »

If 2:13 is your 800 time with poor pacing then I'd like to see your best if you got you tactics spot on. Thats some fast running. Seems like there are a lot of people on here more suited to shorter distances (myself included) yet still do marathons regardless!

The first lap of that 800m was a 61, I was in bits after the second lap and just trying to hang on. :eek:

GPS data for an 800m is probably not too accurate, but this seems to show how badly I fell off after 500m pretty well.

Pisco Sour

robinph wrote: »

The first lap of that 800m was a 61, I was in bits after the second lap and just trying to hang on. :eek:

GPS data for an 800m is probably not too accurate, but this seems to show how badly I fell off after 500m pretty well.

A 61 first lap! :eek: Whats your 400 PB?

robinph

04072511 wrote: »

A 61 first lap! :eek: Whats your 400 PB?

Erm... 61 I guess.

christeb

Name|800m PB|1500m PB|Mile PB|5k PB|
woddle|2'31|5'14||19'25|
gerard65|2'32|None|5'38|19'16|
speedy44|2:20|4:43|5:00:23|17:41
04072511|2'42|5'16|5'56|21'02
BeepBeep67|2'22 (M40)|4'57 (M40)|5'10 (M40)|17'53 (M40)
dna_leri|2:25 (M40)|5:07 (M40)|5:28 (M40)|19:36 (M40)
shels4ever|2:07|4:22|xxxx|20:32
myflipflops|xxxx|3.56|xxxx|15.12
robinph|2:13|4:58|5:15|17:39
christeb|xxxx|xxxx|5:14|18:28

I'm in for this, it's a box I want to tick sooner rather than later