Bio Dad suddenly seeking guardianship of daughter.

metrovelvet

ash23 wrote: »

Apologies for that. it's a habit I picked up myself. I refer to my daughters dad as her bio dad as I haven't seen him since I told him I was pregnant. I raised her with my (now ex) partner and call him step dad. Not really an apt description in this case as the father is involved.

Step father does not mean surrogate father. It is the name of the mother's spouse who is not the biological father of the child[ren]. It has nothing to do with the involvement of the other parent.

ash23 wrote: »

I disagree. I think that primarily a child has 2 parents and while other people can be involved/heavily involved, the child has 2 parents. End of.
My daughter has me, her father (who she has never met) and her step father (who raised her, who she calls dad, who she still sees). However since we live apart her step father no longer has responsibilities towards her. He sees her but he doesn't play the father role. And therefore the decisions are all mine.

There are a lot of people doing that in all honesty, including fathers. Her own father didnt want to play the father role either.

ash23 wrote: »

The OP wouldn't want to pay maintenance, have strict access and have the "downside" of parenting this child if they split up. He may still want to see her but he would not want to parent her.

You don't know that. Whether he would be allowed to by his ex is another story, but he may very well would want to. And he would have less guarantors behind him than the bio dads to do that, despite the relationship he may have formed with the kids.

Khannie

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I prefer to ignore them, thanks.

My point was that you didn't ignore it. You indirectly accused another poster of trolling. I'm telling you not to do that again. Thanks.

smelltheglove

Just my 2 cents for the op.

I met my husband when my daughter was just 1, I had my own house and he moved in shortly after. I consulted her father about this first. At that stage her father would talke her one night a week usually collecting her in the evening and dropping her off in the afternoon.

Still to this day her father lives with his parents, in the last year she got her own room finally which she is delighted about. Her dad has made mistakes but I have also made mistakes, no parent is perfect but it is the love for their child that shows the absent parents mistakes above their own. My daughters dad has increased his interest as she has gotten older, as a primary carer to the child it would come natural to you to put her first at all times. He is not a primary carer to the child as he takes her twice a week the rest of his time he is out for number one so some things that come naturally to you may not come naturally to him.

For my daughter, her dad has not asked for joint guardianship, if he did it would be given to him as he is her dad but since he is included in every decision I suppose he has felt no need to ask. You sound as if you have little respect for this man, which I feel may be unjust, how do you think you would get along with him if you had nothing to do with your partner when you met? Chances are you may have gotten along so you should try put yourself in his shoes too, give him a little respect, ok maybe you think no he doesnt deserve it but lets be honest, its not hard and it will make life a whole lot easier.

I'm all for fathers rights, I'd be very vocal about it and I was a single mother! Your child has a right to know her father and have him being an integral part in her life, I say your child as my child is my husbands, as she is her fathers, my husband has spent more time with her than her father and I give him just as much input as her father gets, this is a mutual understanding that was never discussed, he rears her as much as I do, more at the minute since he is unemployed due to recession but he has huge input, as does her dad.

Your childs father has a right to make decisions and giving him that piece of paper just means his rights are recognised by law. As a guardian he would have say on her health, god forbid anything happened he would have as much say in what happens as her mother which he is entitled to. I honestly think signing the form is the only way, it wont change your life in anyway, you can request an agreement should anything happen to your partner, I havent done this but I would doubt my childs father would interupt her life in anyway should anything happen and prefer her to stay with her sister. The better the relationship is between parents the easier it is on both, I know I can rely on my childs dad and his family for anything as I give them the respect, visitation and decisions they deserve, we are all in it for her and thankfully his family even cherish my younger child with my husband and have offered many a time to babysit when we have been stuck.

Putting the effort into the relationship with your childs father between not only her mother but also yourself will make life a whole lot easier for the child and the parents. Im not saying be a yes man and bow to his every needs but give him as much say as you have, this is his human right.

Nevyn

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Just want to object to the term 'bio dad' which has been used by the OP and others in this thread.
There is no mention of adoption in this case.
The person in question is the child's father, dad for short.
The OP is not the father. He is at best stepfather. And he needs to leave matters of parenting up to the actual parents in this case.
Reading between the lines (snide comments about the father 'lacking a brain' and so on), the OP could be as much of a problem in this situation as anything else.

This thread was split from another one and I put the term Bio Dad in the title.
I dont' see it as demeaning, it's a commonly used terms and I am sorry if you find it offensive but I don't consider it to make less of anyone, there are other sides which will call fathers who do not have contact with their children sperm donars and that I would not tolerate as it is offensive.

As for you not reporting posts, I suggest you learn to do so as posting in thread rather then reporting can drag threads of topic and be disruptive to the forum and that can lead to forum bans.

Daragh86

I said I'd end on my last post but thought it best to expand a little on a few posts after reading a couple replies over the weekend.

As I have said before I am all for my her father being around, I encourage it more than anyone in the family (girlfriend, grandparents, etc.) because I believe that she does need her bio dad - I'm not saying any different, end of story on that one!

I wouldn't even consider saying anything downgrading or insulting about the child's bio dad to her at all, I have more respect for her and myself to ever think about it, he will in time manage to ruin it all by himself through his actions - or lack of them. Another point put to bed...

To expand on my term "idiot" and most people don't seem to agree but in my opinion some people aren't fit to be parents and ultimitly this was a very bad decision on my girlfriend's part and she fully understands that but it's all well and good saying that in hindsight - I've made some major messes for myself but I learn from these and put these right going forward. Her bio dad during the boom couldn't hold down any sort of a job, constantly unemployed. He is now unemployed for about a year and a half (got fired from his last job, not let go). He's claiming welfare and working on the side part time. He lives with his parents where he doesn't provide a bedroom for his daughter and not even a bed, she sleeps on a blow up bed on his bedroom floor. When he takes her he generally does either work or be out socialising, his daughter is left between his sister and his mother and father. He doesn't need to work to support his daughter (15 euro a week is all he is asked for to cover half of school costs) so no excuses not to see her on the days he has her. When he has her he doesn't dress her, his mother does. He doesn't cook for her, his mother does. Generally he doesn't pick her up from our house or drop her off, generally his mother or sister. She eats take aways for lunch and dinner everytime she stays at his parents house.

I could go on and this is all things I would never never think of saying to the child, it is not my business or anyone's business to point out to her his downfalls. I'm not out to stop him from being her father and seeing her. My view of the situation is that he wants 50% of the decision making without taking 50% of the responsibilities of raising her.

If he was to prove to my girlfriend that he is capable of taking on 50% on the responsibilities in raising her I'm sure joint guardianship wouldn't be an issue, but until then she would rather not have him having 50% decision making capabilities. I thought this would be a pretty realistic view of the situation and a shared view amoungst a majority? All that is being thought about from my point of view and my girlfriends is her daughters best interests, nothing else.

The Corinthian

Daragh86 wrote: »

I could go on and this is all things I would never never think of saying to the child, it is not my business or anyone's business to point out to her his downfalls. I'm not out to stop him from being her father and seeing her. My view of the situation is that he wants 50% of the decision making without taking 50% of the responsibilities of raising her.

With all due respects Daragh, he may well be an idiot but he is still her father. Ultimately that's what it comes down to and in that respect he is no more an idiot than many single mothers or even couples who feed their kids nothing but take-out every day - if it didn't come down to that children would be taken from their parents far more often. But they're not and such drastic actions are only carried out in extreme cases, where the child's life is threatened.

It seems to me that behind your protestations of looking out for the child's and mother's best interests you also have another agenda. You have effectively accepted this child as your own. You are settling down with this child's mother and are about to being a family together. Your priorities now, understandably, are to protect that new family, your future children and their relationship with their half-sibling. And to this end her father is a serious fly in the ointment.

As I said earlier, my guess is that the father has picked up on this. His fear is that he will end up being airbrushed out of his daughter's life. The threat that you will eventually adopt her and/or move away is a very real one to him and without guardianship his options are limited. And this is why he is seeking the guarantee of guardianship - which, if nothing else, will stop an adoption. He may be seeking nothing more.

Talk to him. Ultimately if this is the reason he is going after guardianship, then the two of you talking it through could be hugely beneficial to dealing with both of your anxieties.

If he was to prove to my girlfriend that he is capable of taking on 50% on the responsibilities in raising her I'm sure joint guardianship wouldn't be an issue, but until then she would rather not have him having 50% decision making capabilities. I thought this would be a pretty realistic view of the situation and a shared view amoungst a majority? All that is being thought about from my point of view and my girlfriends is her daughters best interests, nothing else.

In a perfect World, that would be great, but a little impractical when you don't have custody. As things stand though, he does not have 50% of the decision making, he has 0% - and while he may not have 50% of the responsibilities of raising her, he has more that 0%. So if you really do believe in an equitable exchange of responsibility for rights, then you need to accept that he will have to get some say.

TBH, if he were to take 50% of the responsibilities of raising her, then it would not be joint guardianship that he should be getting, but joint custody.

Daragh86

The Corinthian wrote: »

It seems to me that behind your protestations of looking out for the child's and mother's best interests you also have another agenda.

This is definately not the case, obviously I can't prove it but you'll just have to take my word for it.

The Corinthian wrote: »

Talk to him. Ultimately if this is the reason he is going after guardianship, then the two of you talking it through could be hugely beneficial to dealing with both of your anxieties.

Unfortunately his communication skills are lacking a small bit, obvious lies are about all that would come from that.

The Corinthian wrote: »

he does not have 50% of the decision making, he has 0%

He is always consulted about major decisions. All decisions are discussed with him including religion, school, sports, etc. And they are strictly discussed between him and my girlfriend and it has been made clear on several ocassions that I don't influence any decisions.

The Corinthian wrote: »

So if you really do believe in an equitable exchange of responsibility for rights, then you need to accept that he will have to get some say.

He has the say as stated above so why shouldn't he prove he is responsible enough to take both rights and responsibility? Is it fair to demand and be granted one without giving due regard to the other?

The Corinthian

Daragh86 wrote: »

This is definately not the case, obviously I can't prove it but you'll just have to take my word for it.

I'm simply reading this from a tell-tale comment you made earlier: "the case that something may happen to my girlfriend in the future he would have sole guardianship of her then and would remove her from what would be her family home with half brothers or sisters". So that agenda, by your own admission, is definitely there in some shape or form.

Unfortunately his communication skills are lacking a small bit, obvious lies are about all that would come from that.

Quite possibly, after all he has absolutely no reason to trust you. You never know though, you can but try. Way I see it, it's actually your best option.

He is always consulted about major decisions. All decisions are discussed with him including religion, school, sports, etc.

'Consulted' is a pretty nebulous term though. It can mean a genuine say in the upbringing of the child, but it can also mean little more than 'informed' and were he to disagree with any decision, there is little or no point in even voicing that disagreement as it would ultimately be overruled.

He has the say as stated above so why shouldn't he prove he is responsible enough to take both rights and responsibility? Is it fair to demand and be granted one without giving due regard to the other?

Depends on whether he really has a say, as I also pointed out above. After all, as a biological father without guardianship, he also has a right to be 'consulted' (if reasonably possible) on his child being adopted by someone else, but that doesn't mean he has any right in the decision.

Big Bag of Chips

Just on the point that if something were to happen your gf that he would be sole guardian..

Check out the legalities of it, as I'm not 100%, but I think your gf can appoint you as a testamentary guardian in her will. It wouldn't be automatic that the child would have to go live with her father. If it was to go to court, a judge would look at the family circumstances, siblings, length of time with the "step-family" etc.

At the end of the day though, you need to stop concentrating your energy on what he does or doesn't do. So what if he doesn't dress her. I have a husband.. who I live with! He rarely dresses our children. Has never bathed them etc.. Doesn't make him an idiot, or less responsible! Or less entitled to be a parent or guardian to our children.

From your post I get the impression that it's his mother that's the problem and not necessarily him!It's not really the case that he does nothing, it's that she does everything! If she refused to do it and made him step up to the mark, then he's have to.. as it is, he has someone else to do it for him (like my husband has!) so why would he do it himself?! My sister lived at home for a while with her first child.. my mother did everything. EVERYTHING! My mother did it, and my sister let her.

Almost everyone who has replied, on a parenting forum, has told you you need to let him just get on with it. He has a different style of parenting than you and your gf, doesn't make him wrong. Just makes him different.

There are lots of "idiot" parents out there, who manage quite well!

smelltheglove

You seem blind to the fact that as the chillds father he is entitled to guardianship, I'm sorry if that may sound harsh but it is the vibe I get from your posts. You may think he is an idiot for some of his life choices, for the fact that he doesnt hold down a job but at the end of the day his career prospects or lack of actually have nothing to do with his abilities as a parent or his love for his child.

So what if his mother makes the dinner, it is her house and may have been her role for a long time, again so what if she dresses the child, he may feel uncomfortable dressing a young girl when there is someone else who can do it. His mother is the childs grandmother and most likely loves her very much and wants to have a hands on role when the child is around, this does not reflect ont he fathers abilities.

You seem to knock the father at every opportunity and calling him an idiot to me is disrespectful, you may say that you dont voice these opinions around the child or her father but come on, kids have ears and were she to hear you speak of him in this manner I doubt she would be a happy child and possibly lose respect for you.

I am really sorry if I appear to be slating you over this behaviour, as a child from a broken home myself the attitudes seperated parents have towards each other infuriates me, some people just don't think about the affect it will have on their children and worst of all, don't think about how their opinion of their parents will change once they are adult enough to realise the petty behaviour. From experience, it doesnt matter what kind of parent you are, good or bad, when you have a negative attitude to the other parent in all likelihood the child will have a negative attitude towards your parenting skills later in life.

The child is the number one person here and you don't like her dad, well so what, he is her dad, he is entitled to the security guardianship will bring to him and he is entitled to be respected for his role in her life. As much as I am aware there are asses out there who mess around too much obviously this man loves his child, taking her twice a week and requesting guardianship shows the fact that she means a lot to him.

I wonder are you this vocal around your girlfriend about your feelings? Does she really feel no she doesnt want to grant guardianship or is it a fact that she may be agreeable due to your blatant dislike for this guy.

Just some quotes here to show what leads me to my opinion.

I wouldn't even consider saying anything downgrading or insulting about the child's bio dad to her at all, I have more respect for her and myself to ever think about it, he will in time manage to ruin it all by himself through his actions - or lack of them

To expand on my term "idiot" and most people don't seem to agree but in my opinion some people aren't fit to be parents and ultimitly this was a very bad decision on my girlfriend's part and she fully understands that

Unfortunately his communication skills are lacking a small bit, obvious lies are about all that would come from that.

metrovelvet

In your first post you seemed concerned about the prospect of starting your own family with your girlfriend, something happening to your girlfriend, and your step-daughter [I will use this word for lack of a better one, although as you are not married it does not really apply] being reclaimed by her bio dad.

Would that be correct?

Can I play devil's advocate here?

You seem like a good guy. You seem loyal and caring. You seem to know when to step off to let the bios make their decisions. This is all good. You seem to be concerned for the child and the future you all have together as a family.

However. Time and time again, if you read about it in books, online, in anecdotes, etc. People will tell you once you have your own biologically, it's all different. Now I know there are exceptions to this, perhaps you will be one, but no one can know that. What I would fear, even as the bio mother, is that if I died and left this child among half siblings and a step dad, that the child would be somehow, even in the most subtleest of ways, treated differently. And then lets say you meet someone new. Chances are you would. You think this person would want to raise a child that is not even yours?

Whatever kind of a noob he is, he still should have the right to his daughter in the case of her mother's death. You of course, would have the right to contest it on many grounds.

But even if the child did live with you, as a step father, you still have no rights to sign medical consent forms, open bank accounts for the child, travel, etc etc. The child would ultimately be living with someone who is legally unable to protect her, unless your girlfriend has set out some kind of guaardinship for you in her will. But since you are not even married, it wont stand a chance. Seriously, if unmarried bio dads dont have these rights, what makes you think 'mommy's boyfriend' will have any?

Daragh86

The Corinthian wrote: »

'Consulted' is a pretty nebulous term though. It can mean a genuine say in the upbringing of the child, but it can also mean little more than 'informed' and were he to disagree with any decision

Consulted means consulted, as in a consultation, where things are discussed and agreed upon? This would be a whole lot easier if posts were taken as they are and not picked to bits.

The Corinthian wrote: »

Depends on whether he really has a say, as I also pointed out above. After all, as a biological father without guardianship, he also has a right to be 'consulted' (if reasonably possible) on his child being adopted by someone else, but that doesn't mean he has any right in the decision.

I wouldn't look to adopt a child if there father was present even one day in a year. If the father had passed away for example I might look into purely as a safe guard in the event of the child's mothers absence.

I don't like a lot of people, that doesn't mean I don't get on with them. I never speak of this situation in front of the child. I never push any of my opinions and my girlfriend, I always support her decisions no matter if I agree with or disagree with them.

In my opinion not being comfortable with dressing your daughter and leaving this responsibility with someone else is a cop out, no excuses. This would be far less of an issue if the child's grandmother was to apply for guardianship, she provides something good for her grand daughter.

In my saying "disrespectful" things about her father is simply informing you of the situation. If somebody asked me what my downfalls were I wouldn't lie and say I have none, they're quite obvious. These "disrespectful" remarks are all indications of his lack of will to provide something good for his daughter. People have said numourous times that eventhough somebody may not deserve joint guardianship but because they are their bio dad means they'll get it, does this make it right? He has and will continue to be given every oppertunity to provide something good for his daughter.

I think the question still stands about why shouldn't he prove he is responsible enough to take both rights and responsibility? Is it fair to demand and be granted one without giving due regard to the other?

shortstuff

It sounds to me like that both of ye (the childs bio-dad and you her step dad, (only using these terms for lack of better ones) are afraid of the same thing. both of you are afraid of losing her if the other one is granted guardianship or adoption(where applicable). You need to sit down and talk to him about your concerns and he to you about his. Ok if he lies he lies that's not on you. Has mediation been tired at any point, either between your partner and her ex or maybe perhaps all three of ye seeing as you are all sayin thay ye only want what's best for the little girl that's caught in the middle of all this?

smelltheglove

Daragh86 wrote: »

People have said numourous times that eventhough somebody may not deserve joint guardianship but because they are their bio dad means they'll get it, does this make it right? He has and will continue to be given every oppertunity to provide something good for his daughter.

I think the question still stands about why shouldn't he prove he is responsible enough to take both rights and responsibility? Is it fair to demand and be granted one without giving due regard to the other?

A mother may not deserve full guardianship but she gets it, without even having to demand it, is that fair?

Did your girlfriend have to prove she was responsible enough to hold guardianship?

The answer to both questions is no. He is her father, had he and yoru girlfriend been married this wouldnt be an issue as he would have guardianship. It's a messed up legal system that an unmarried father does not get automatic guardianship. He is her father, therefor he is entitled to it, end of.

Daragh86

shortstuff wrote: »

It sounds to me like that both of ye (the childs bio-dad and you her step dad, (only using these terms for lack of better ones) are afraid of the same thing. both of you are afraid of losing her if the other one is granted guardianship or adoption(where applicable). You need to sit down and talk to him about your concerns and he to you about his. Ok if he lies he lies that's not on you. Has mediation been tired at any point, either between your partner and her ex or maybe perhaps all three of ye seeing as you are all sayin thay ye only want what's best for the little girl that's caught in the middle of all this?

I might be giving the wrong impression through this, my apologies if it comes across wrong. Myself and her bio dad get on fine, never a bad word between us and I wouldn't ever say a bad word to him. All dealings with his daughter and issues and dealth with between him and my girlfriend - it's not my business and either is this situation, I am not bringing this back to my girlfriend to influence her, I am discussing here for my own personal reasons and to try to justify this to myself. I am a pretty laid back sort with most issues and I know when to take a step back from something I'm not welcome in.

I should hope that it wouldn't get to a situation of mediation. The ideal outcome would be for him to take on his responsibilities in relation to his daughter and if necessary then to be appointed joint guardian but at the moment this situation is not an option in my girlfriends (and my personal) opinion.

I am concerned about what may or may not happen in the event the absence of my girlfriend from a family situation in the future and I would hope that my girlfriend would have in place something to keep her daughter within the family. Of course if the situation changed and the childs bio dad did take on his responsibilities and provided her with a viable option then of course that'd be an option to follow up on.

Big Bag of Chips

Daragh, you may not mean it, but you come across as protesting too much. It's clear you don't like this guy. From what you say your gf accepts that she made a mistake by having a baby with him...

But that's irrelevant now. She had a baby with him. He is a father to a child. If she doesn't grant him guardianship, a judge will. Simple.

If down the road he somehow messes up and your gf can prove he doesn't deserve to be a guardian, then it can be taken away from him again. But he will be given a chance. And no, he doesn't have to prove anything. Just as single mothers, or even couples, don't have to prove that they are capable of being responsible for a child before they leave the maternity ward.

He's the child's father. He may have few automatic rights, but if he looks for them he is most likely to be granted them. If he messes up and proves he's not capable, they may be taken away... but he will be given the chance to "prove" himself first.

It's a "learn on the job" scenario... not a "prove you can before you get the job" scenario!

metrovelvet

Here is an interesting article on step dads.

Step dads can provide more financial support to a child, invest more time, love and patience than a bio dad, but if the cookie crumbles either through death or divorce, sorry charlie, the step parent least of all, has any guarantees.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/18/garden/stepfathers-the-shoes-rarely-fit.html?pagewanted=1

The Corinthian

Daragh86 wrote: »

Consulted means consulted, as in a consultation, where things are discussed and agreed upon?

In theory maybe, in practice often not. I'm not saying that this is the case here. On the other hand, it might be and neither you, nor your partner would even be aware of this unless you dispassionately looked at how often there were disagreements and of those how many did not ultimately go her way.

Unfortunately, there's lots of fathers out there who are 'consulted' this way. After being overruled a few times, they learn just to agree, because ultimately the whole process is little more than a charade.

This would be a whole lot easier if posts were taken as they are and not picked to bits.

I'm sorry, but I tend to analyze what people say.

I think the question still stands about why shouldn't he prove he is responsible enough to take both rights and responsibility? Is it fair to demand and be granted one without giving due regard to the other?

The reverse happens, where responsibilities are applied without rights, so why not? Indeed, her mother got her rights before actually proving anything either - unless not having an abortion is considered proof.

Seriously, as I and others have pointed out, guardianship really does not afford him a Hell of a lot in terms of rights. It's not even immutable.

Added to this, he may be an 'idiot' but he has accepted his daughter and is making an effort, albeit poor and/or incompetent, to be involved. If this goes to court he will most likely get guardianship, so even discussing if he should have it is moot.

Your emphasis in this discussion has been to question whether he should have guardianship, if his getting it can be avoided and what are the potential negative implications if he has it.

But you've never actually asked why he would want guardianship. Honestly, regardless of if you talk to him or not, you should try to understand this first. Otherwise you're going to be locked in an endless battle with paranoid phantoms.

Daragh86

smelltheglove wrote: »

The answer to both questions is no. He is her father, had he and yoru girlfriend been married this wouldnt be an issue as he would have guardianship. It's a messed up legal system that an unmarried father does not get automatic guardianship. He is her father, therefor he is entitled to it, end of.

I completely disagree. It is a messed up legal system that a (this is going to upset a lot of posters) bad parent gets to make bad decisions where there is a capable other parent (her mother) to make these decisions.

It is so utterly backward and narrow minded to think somebody who can't sort out their own life should be given automatically without due regard the decision making capabilities of a child's life when there is a fully capable individual in place already.

If the other way around and the mother was not proving her worth and not providing something good for a child I should hope that somebody would contest that and the father would, if capable, be granted guardianship. It is an unfortunate reality that mothers do have a bigger role in a child's life, giving birth, breast feeding, etc. naturally give them more of a natural bond, it is only logical to give them the 50/50 decision of guardianship over the father.

The Corinthian

Daragh86 wrote: »

It is so utterly backward and narrow minded to think somebody who can't sort out their own life should be given automatically without due regard the decision making capabilities of a child's life when there is a fully capable individual in place already.

As has been already pointed out to you, this applies to a lot of parents; custodial single parents, married couples, the lot.

Perhaps we should ask parents to bring a bank statement to the hospital when they give birth, just to prove that they are competent to keep the child?

metrovelvet

Daragh86 wrote: »

I completely disagree. It is a messed up legal system that a (this is going to upset a lot of posters) bad parent gets to make bad decisions where there is a capable other parent (her mother) to make these decisions.

It is so utterly backward and narrow minded to think somebody who can't sort out their own life should be given automatically without due regard the decision making capabilities of a child's life when there is a fully capable individual in place already.

If the other way around and the mother was not proving her worth and not providing something good for a child I should hope that somebody would contest that and the father would, if capable, be granted guardianship. It is an unfortunate reality that mothers do have a bigger role in a child's life, giving birth, breast feeding, etc. naturally give them more of a natural bond, it is only logical to give them the 50/50 decision of guardianship over the father.

Ok. Can I ask you something? And mods I am not taking the piss here. OP you keep saying he is "not capable." Do you mean he has some kind of disability or handicapp? Or is he just lazy?

theg81der

Op I`m a step parent and I think your over stepping the mark right now. It`s their business to sort out.

If your partner wants to improve things I would advise giving him 2 days midweek. This might encourage him to be more responsible as a parent. The weekend doesn`t give you the oppurtunity to be a "real" parent. He does sound like he hasn`t a clue but he needs to be given the tools to change.

Daragh86

metrovelvet wrote: »

Ok. Can I ask you something? And mods I am not taking the piss here. OP you keep saying he is "not capable." Do you mean he has some kind of disability or handicapp? Or is he just lazy?

If you stood the childs mother and father beside each other and told a perfect stranger of their background in relation to both their decision making and responsibilities and asked that stranger who they'd think is in the best position to make decisions I bet they'd pick the mother every time.

Now I have come around to the fact that there is pretty much nothing that can be done from stopping him from getting joint guardianship but that doesn't make it right and I am completely stumped by people's reaction to this situation.

If I'm not good enough for the job I don't get the job - and the job isn't rocket science, it's behind the counter in McDonalds, no excuses for not being able to prove your worth for McDonalds.

ash23

OP, there are many MANY mothers and fathers who take the lazy approach to parenting.
Many parents who are married leave the majority of childcare to the other person. Going back a few years, how many dads left all the cooking, dressing etc up to the mothers while they were at work or down the local.
It doesn't mean they are bad people. it doesn't mean they didn't love their children. They just aren't all that hands on.

Does the child love her dad? Does she enjoy seeing him and spending time with him?

You say that you would never say anything to the child about her dad but you can't seem to mention him without belittling him. A child will pick up on that and may come to resent you for it in the future.

If you stood the childs mother and father beside each other and told a perfect stranger of their background in relation to both their decision making and responsibilities and asked that stranger who they'd think is in the best position to make decisions I bet they'd pick the mother every time.

And if you put me beside my mother when my child was born, they'd have picked the 50 year old woman with a career, who had raised 5 kids, owned a home and had a husband over me, 20 years of age, single, no job, no house, no experience with kids.
But if the decision making had been left to my mum, how would I ever have learned??? I am now an amazing mother and my daughter and I have a wonderful relationship and are very close. But if someone had been constantly interfereing in that and taking away my chance to parent my daughter, it wouldn't be that way.
Back off and let him make his mistakes. Your gf wasn't born knowing how to be a mother. It's something she's learned and I'd imagine she made her mistakes along the way too.


I just can't understand the attitude at all. You complain about how useless he is and how little interest he has. While complaning that he is looking for more responsibility for the childs upbringing. Can you not see the contradiction?

Big Bag of Chips

Daragh86 wrote: »

It is a messed up legal system that a (this is going to upset a lot of posters) bad parent gets to make bad decisions where there is a capable other parent (her mother) to make these decisions.

But bad parents don't get to make bad decisions if there is a capable other parent on the scene! The legal system also allows for the "capable" parent to go to court to have the "good" decision, decided on! Granting guardianship, doesn't grant him the right to make bad decision. She has 2 parents, they discuss their options. If they can't/won't agree, they go to court and a judge decides.

Your gf had a baby with him. She made her decision a long time ago. She now has to live with that. Best thing for everyone, and mosy importantly the child is for all adults in her life who care about her, especially her two parents, to be able to discuss things.

In a couple situation one parent may make ridiculous decisions, and the other more sensible parent may be there to talk them around..?

Can I just ask, what "bad decisions" are you talking about? Has he made bad decisions, are you thinking that he might make bad decisions? Are you asking that he not be granted guardianship over a decision he might make?

How bad a decision can he realistically make? If he has a mother who seems to be a big part of the childs life, surely she would be the voice of sense behind him tellling him what's right and wrong.

I'm just wondering what decision could he possibly make as joint guardian, that would make it reasonable to not grant him guardianship!

Daragh86

ash23 wrote: »

Does the child love her dad? Does she enjoy seeing him and spending time with him?

I just can't understand the attitude at all. You complain about how useless he is and how little interest he has. While complaning that he is looking for more responsibility for the childs upbringing. Can you not see the contradiction?

She does love her dad but no she doesn't love spending time in his house. This is getting off the point a bit because she will always see her dad until she gets to an age to decide either way for herself.

He is definately not looking for more responsibility, he is looking for decision making capabilities. I've said time and time again he doesn't in any way look after her. He has had so much oppertunity and will continue to have that oppertunity - no one is taking that away.

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

How bad a decision can he realistically make? If he has a mother who seems to be a big part of the childs life, surely she would be the voice of sense behind him tellling him what's right and wrong.

He is the kind who will go against everything that's good for her just to make a point because of the situation. From the quote above Chips this is exactly my point, with joint guardianship it doesn't matter if there is a voice of sence behind him telling him what's right and wrong - he will have the power to go against anything that makes sence.


I am giving up in here. I've said before that in most cases I am all for single father's rights but in some cases it's just not right and to tar everyone with the same brush is very narrow minded. I came here thinking logically looking for support and am leaving shocked and disappointed in some, in my personal opinion, absolutely shocking views. It is certainly not my business to put down or tear apart anyones opinions we're all entitled to them and it seems mine is definately the minority but in my head it is the right thing. Anyway this decision again as said before is not for me to make or influence so you can rest easy that this is the end of my involvement.

Thanks for the discussion and my apologies if I over stepped the mark or offended anyone, it was not my intention. Good luck!

Nevyn

There are a few unmarried fathers out there who seek guardianship only to use it to be a pain in the arse and a stick to beat the other parent with. It is unfortunate but true.

The Corinthian

Daragh86 wrote: »

I came here thinking logically looking for support and am leaving shocked and disappointed in some, in my personal opinion, absolutely shocking views. It is certainly not my business to put down or tear apart anyones opinions we're all entitled to them and it seems mine is definately the minority but in my head it is the right thing. Anyway this decision again as said before is not for me to make or influence so you can rest easy that this is the end of my involvement

Ever consider the possibility that the fact that the weight of opinion is contrary to yours is because you're wrong?

Oh well, good luck, sounds like you will need it.

Big Bag of Chips

But Daragh, it's not an issue that can be down to anyone's opinion or personal views...

It's law. It's fact.
If you have an issue with it, I'm afraid you'd have to challenge the law, rather than posters here who are just passing the information on to you!

The Corinthian

Thaedydal wrote: »

There are a few unmarried fathers out there who seek guardianship only to use it to be a pain in the arse and a stick to beat the other parent with. It is unfortunate but true.

Not a terribly good stick though.

If guardianship rights are abused it will mean at worst some extra trips to the courts in the short term. Before long the belligerent guardian will have a record of needless and spiteful challenges and a judge will effectively disallow their ability to make another one for a certain period.

The same legal mechanism currently exists for custodial parents who bring the non-custodial one to court every two months for a variance on maintenance.