'Where the hell were the lifeguards?'

southsiderosie

Normally I would never quote from the Daily Mail but...

A distraught mother yesterday demanded to know how her eight-year-old son drowned in a family leisure pool despite it being watched by several lifeguards.
Kaimen Ward’s lifeless body was pulled from the water by a lifeguard as soon as he was spotted.
Staff tried desperately to revive him before paramedics arrived, but their efforts were in vain.
His mother Caroline Ward, 41, said: ‘What I want to know is: where the hell were the lifeguards? It is peak season at the swimming pool, so how did he go unsupervised?’
Yesterday a police inquiry was under way to establish the full circumstances of the tragedy.
Kaimen and his twin sister Hope-Ella had celebrated their eighth birthday exactly a week before.
The incident happened at Hambleton Leisure Centre in Northallerton, North Yorkshire, at around 4.25pm on Wednesday.

Kaimen was in a group with two friends and three adults. His parents and his sister were not present at the time.

Source

First off, this is a heartbreaking story and I feel awful for the family.

The full details of the case aren't available yet, but I have to add - and I say this as a former lifeguard - if you have small children please, please PLEASE keep a close eye on them at a crowded swimming pool or beach! Even if there are lifeguards around! Most kids think they are better swimmers than they actually are, and in a crowded pool, they can go under very quickly. And even if the guards are vigilant, by the time they get to your child - especially at a beach or in a large pool - it may be too late. I can't tell you how many near accidents and possible deaths I've seen because parents are not paying close attention to their children.

Drowning is one of the leading causes of death for children under 12. Please don't let this happen to any child you care about!

Kiera

The pool didnt look that big so dont know how the lifeguards missed him. Its very very sad

Stercus Accidit

Lifeguards aren't babysitters, where were the adults who were responsible for him?

Sofiztikated

A distraught mother yesterday demanded to know how her eight-year-old son drowned in a family leisure pool despite it being watched by several lifeguards.
Kaimen Ward’s lifeless body was pulled from the water by a lifeguard as soon as he was spotted.
Staff tried desperately to revive him before paramedics arrived, but their efforts were in vain.
His mother Caroline Ward, 41, said: ‘What I want to know is: where the hell were the lifeguards? It is peak season at the swimming pool, so how did he go unsupervised?’
Yesterday a police inquiry was under way to establish the full circumstances of the tragedy...

Where the hell was the mother?

Kimono-Girl

it is a sad story, but it says

"Kaimen was in a group with two friends and three adults. His parents and his sister were not present at the time"

what the hell were the three adults doing???

southsiderosie

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Where the hell was the mother?

According to the article he was there with other adults, but the mom wasn't one of them.

Sykk

Parenting fail.

Stupid bitch should never be allowed kids again, tragedy.

WindSock

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Lifeguards aren't babysitters, where were the adults who were responsible for him?

No, but it's kind of their job to be looking out for the pool users.

Cookie_Monster

Musta been guarding someone else's life at that moment

SeaFields

RE - where the hell was the mother.

Last year I was swimming with herself at the local beach when we saw two young girls getting "into difficulties". We swam out to them, and swam them back to shore. Both of their mothers were sitting on the beach having a chat.

One got really embarrassed and starting giving out to her daughter (as she was coughing up a lung full of water) for causing myself and the girlfriend to go out of our way :rolleyes:

Had we not been there those two "mothers" would have sat gossiping as their two ten year olds drowned. Stupid bitches.

irishgrover

Sykk wrote: »

Parenting fail.

Stupid bitch should never be allowed kids again, tragedy.

FFS, I know this is after hours an all, but that's a bit harsh!

The Big Red Button

Sykk wrote: »

Parenting fail.

Stupid bitch should never be allowed kids again, tragedy.

Wtf.

She let her eight year old son go to a supervised swimming pool with two friends and three adults who she presumably trusted.

I really don't see anything too awful about what she did!

Sykk

Sykk wrote: »

Parenting fail.

Stupid bitch should never be allowed kids again, tragedy.

You should actually try reading the source material sometimes before passing judgement - it says that she wasn't present. However - she should be asking where the adults were.

southsiderosie

Deleted User wrote: »

You should actually try reading the source material sometimes before passing judgement - it says that she wasn't present. However - she should be asking where the adults were.

OP edited to make it clear that the mother was not present, but other adults were.

syklops

Kiera wrote: »

The pool didnt look that big so dont know how the lifeguards missed him. Its very very sad

To be fair, if you look at the size of the Seat in the top left hand corner, and the height of the Seat compared to the size of the pool, that is quite a decent sized pool.

I dont what the limit is, but you could easily fit 100 maybe even 200 kids in that pool. Thats alot of kids to be keeping track of, even for a large dedicated team of LifeGuards.

We used to goto the pool by ourselves and do loads of stupid stuff when we were young.. If I had died, I wouldn't like to think that someone was held to blame. It's an accident, not neglect or bad parenting.

southsiderosie

WindSock wrote: »

No, but it's kind of their job to be looking out for the pool users.

It is their job to look out for patrons, and it's not clear what happened in this case, but in a crowded pool, it is very easy for a kid to quickly and quietly slip underwater. And if this happens near a wall, the lifeguard may not be able to see it, based on their vantage point. If there are 3 guards and 200+ patrons, all adults present need to be vigilant.

SeaFields wrote: »

RE - where the hell was the mother.

Last year I was swimming with herself at the local beach...
Had we not been there those two "mothers" would have sat gossiping as their two ten year olds drowned. Stupid bitches.

Ugh.

I think a lot of parents don't realize how fast a drowning can happen. One of the worst incidents I remember from being a lifeguard was when a woman and her boyfriend decided to take a dip and they left her toddler on the beach. Of course, being a two year old (at best), she wanted her mom, so started to go into the water after her. I saw all of this happening, and just as I started to yell at the mom (who was closer to the kid than I was), a wave smacked the baby in the face and knocked her down. Had there been a strong undertow that day, that kid could have drowned, but luckily between my yelling and the baby shrieking, the mom turned around, started screaming hysterically, and plucked her out of the surf.

Of course, since this happened in the US, I/my employer probably would have been sued if the kid had drowned, even though the mother was an idiot. :mad:

southsiderosie

southsiderosie wrote: »

It is their job to look out for patrons, and it's not clear what happened in this case, but in a crowded pool, it is very easy for a kid to quickly and quietly slip underwater. And if this happens near a wall, the lifeguard may not be able to see it, based on their vantage point. If there are 3 guards and 200+ patrons, all adults present need to be vigilant.



Ugh.

I think a lot of parents don't realize how fast a drowning can happen. One of the worst incidents I remember from being a lifeguard was when a woman and her boyfriend decided to take a dip and they left her toddler on the beach. Of course, being a two year old (at best), she wanted her mom, so started to go into the water after her. I saw all of this happening, and just as I started to yell at the mom (who was closer to the kid than I was), a wave smacked the baby in the face and knocked her down. Had there been a strong undertow that day, that kid could have drowned, but luckily between my yelling and the baby shrieking, the mom turned around, started screaming hysterically, and plucked her out of the surf.

Of course, since this happened in the US, I/my employer probably would have been sued if the kid had drowned, even though the mother was an idiot. :mad:

Jesus, I really don't think i'd like a job wher i'd see that sort of thing..

Sykk

Well what I meant was... I wouldn't trust the life of my child in the hands of someone who's probably getting paid €6 an hour and doesn't give a ****.

The lifeguards were brutal not to have seen this alright. Maybe it's just me, but I'd never leave my kids under the supervision of someone I didn't know without speaking with the adult first.

-K2-

http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

funkyjebus

WindSock wrote: »

No, but it's kind of their job to be looking out for the pool users.

and i thought it was the mothers job to ensure her child safety.

southsiderosie

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus, I really don't think i'd like a job wher i'd see that sort of thing..

Well on the one hand, it was awesome: I got to work with my friends, had mandatory PT on the clock, played a lot of beach volleyball, got really tan, and made decent money for a teenage summer job.

On the other hand, I worked at the kind of beach where parents would ask us to watch their kids so they could go drink malt liquor by the harbor, I was constantly sexually harassed by dirty old men, and there was a drive-by shooting in the parking lot not 100 yards away from me. So it was a mixed bag.

Craziness aside, the moral of the story is: watch your kids when they are swimming.

southsiderosie

ElectronEng wrote: »

http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for posting that.

The Big Red Button

Sykk wrote: »

The lifeguards were brutal not to have seen this alright. Maybe it's just me, but I'd never leave my kids under the supervision of someone I didn't know without speaking with the adult first.

And ... you somehow know that she didn't speak to the three adults to whom she was entrusting her son?

I don't see that in the article, and it seems kind of unlikely to me ...

SeaFields

southsiderosie wrote: »

I think a lot of parents don't realize how fast a drowning can happen.

A lifeguard can probably answer this better than me but i imagine all it takes to drown is to go under once and take a big inhalation of water? You'd go unconscious within a few seconds?

southsiderosie

SeaFields wrote: »

A lifeguard can probably answer this better than me but i imagine all it takes to drown is to go under once and take a big inhalation of water? You'd go unconscious within a few seconds?

Most people who are drowning take on a great deal of water before they actually go under, but in their stomach, not their lungs - which is why so many people vomit when they are resuscitated...lifeguard occupational hazard .

I don't remember the exact statistics, but there is a 10-minute sliding scale of survival rates for drowning victims - for every minute that goes by, the chances of surviving decrease significantly. If I remember correctly, the basic rule of thumb is that there is about a 3-minute survival window, although kids in particular can stay underwater longer in cold water - some children who have fallen through ice in frozen lakes have survived up to 10 minutes.

Stercus Accidit

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Lifeguards aren't babysitters, where were the adults who were responsible for him?

If it was my son, I would be more interested in knowing why the two adults whos care he was in, were not supervising him. I'm sure they feel unbelievable guilt, and it's something they will have to live with for the rest of their lives, but maybe if they had been closer to him, he would still be here.

WindSock

funkyjebus wrote: »

and i thought it was the mothers job to ensure her child safety.

In which she had put in the hands of 2 other adults and a few lifeguards. She is hardly at fault because she let her kids off to the local pool.

funkyjebus

WindSock wrote: »

In which she had put in the hands of 2 other adults and a few lifeguards. She is hardly at fault because she let her kids off to the local pool.

clearly the adults were no up for the job at hand, so thats a fail, i agree the lifeguards maybe should have been more vigilant but she cant start asking question as to where they where because it was high season as that just leads to questions of where she was (or her friends) as it was her own child.

cozzie55

As a P.T. lifeguard myself its easy for everyone else to blame the lifeguards. I've seen plenty of incidents where accidents could have been avoided if the the parents controlled their own kids.
The amount of times I've given out to a child only for my correction to be laughed off by the parents. the child of course keeps doing what they were doing putting their own life and the safety of others at risk

I would like to know more about this story though. Other factors could have been the cause

Was the pool overcrowded?
Was there enough lifeguards on deck for the amount of swimmers?
Was there another incident at the same time eg someone doing something stupid in the deep end and had the lifeguards attention
Was there glare on the pool from the sun as this is the biggest hazard in every pool because the lifeguards can't see under the water from different positions
Had the lifeguard taken a break recently. A lifeguard is supposed to take a 10 min break every hour to revive them and ensure their attention is at its max.

Of course the lifeguards could have been talking amongst themselves if the place is quite. this happens in every pool and I don't think any amount of warnings from management will stop it. THey could have also been doing a pool test and not given the pool their full attention.

Since the drowning in Aura leisure centre in Trim in Meath a few months ago things have improved in terms
of safety in pools. More needs to be done to encourage parents to look after their own kids in the pool as the "lifeguards are babysitters", and ensure that the lifeguards maintain constant supervision.

I pity the lifeguards and adults they will have to live with this for the rest of their lives. Lucky I've never seen anything too serious at work

phill106

3 adults minding the children fail, not a lifeguard fail.

monkeypants

Questioning her involvement or the involvement of the other adults present doesn't get a compensation payout from the council.

cornbb

Spotting whether someone is drowning is not as easy as you might think:

http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

The Instinctive Drowning Response – so named by Francesco A. Pia, Ph.D., is what people do to avoid actual or perceived suffocation in the water. And it does not look like most people expect. There is very little splashing, no waving, and no yelling or calls for help of any kind. To get an idea of just how quiet and undramatic from the surface drowning can be, consider this: It is the number two cause of accidental death in children, age 15 and under (just behind vehicle accidents) – of the approximately 750 children who will drown next year, about 375 of them will do so within 25 yards of a parent or other adult. In ten percent of those drownings, the adult will actually watch them do it, having no idea it is happening

Zzippy

cornbb wrote: »

Spotting whether someone is drowning is not as easy as you might think:

http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

Was about to post something almost identical. A lot of harsh comments on here from people who wouldn't be able to spot someone drowning themselves.

Drowning doesn't look like drowning.

http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/drowning/?10981

Pace2008

BLAME BLAME BLAME BLAME NOTHING IS EVER MY FAULT.

****ing bull****.

dan719

Two of my best friends work as Lifeguards during the summer. They are both fantastic swimmers, have swam for Ireland underage, and are obviously fully trained. As an aside they earn around fourteen euros an hour, which considering the responsibility is probably about right. They are both highly vigilant and certainly aren't the type "not to give a ****". I highly doubt any one goes into that job if they don't give a damn. Easier ways to make money imo.

This is a tragic story and my heart goes out to the mother involved. Having worked on fishing boats, I know how quickly and quietly someone can drown. I find it hard to blame the lifeguards involved due to a personal experience...

I went overboard last summer. (I wasn't wearing a lifejacket, I've never taken it off since). Between the shock of hitting the water and the weight of the gear I was wearing I went completely underneath for a few seconds before natural bouyancy righted me. I swallowed a load of seawater. (Not pleasent) and was to be quite frank absolute sh*tting myself. I couldn't keep myself above water for any sustained period of time despite being a strong swimmer. Only for Dad (who is the boss) realised what had happened, I was f*cked. Due to the panic and the cold I coudn't shout or scream. Bearing in mind I'm 6"2 and fifteen odd stone, I should have made a decent sound hitting the water....I didn't. It really is a terrible way to go, and far too easy once you are in the water.

Again my heart goes out to the family and people involved. It can't be easy for the lg either.

kelle

There was a similar tragedy in Co. Meath last year.

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/navan/articles/2010/08/25/3999525-pool-death-report-remains-unpublished/

Very tragic, and my condolances to the families of these two little boys.

I have always been wary of children in water, and would not have trusted a few lifeguards to be able to watch a huge number of children at once. It's different leaving a child in a play centre, but in water a child can be dead in seconds.

I know from experience that you need to designate one person to watch one child/group of children. If more than one is supervising, one can easily think the other is watching and get carried away doing something else - so in effect nobody is supervising the child!

For example, years ago I took my then 18-month-old son to a hotel to meet up with my mother and 4 aunts. I had to take an important call on my mobile and I asked the 5 of them if they'd watch my son- they said they would. I came back 5 minutes later, they were sitting chatting, no sign of my son. They had forgotten about him because each one thought another was watching him. He had ran out the hotel back door and could have been killed! If I had asked just one person to watch him, that person would have been on full alert and he would not have gone missing.

I'm sure lifeguards have a rule like that when it comes to supervising swimmers. But at the end of the day, a parent or one designated adult is better to be present and watch their own, they're not as likely to take their eyes off the child/group of children.

phill106 wrote: »

3 adults minding the children fail.

Exactly what might have been a factor!

LittleBook

southsiderosie wrote: »

One of the worst incidents I remember from being a lifeguard was when a woman and her boyfriend decided to take a dip and they left her toddler on the beach. Of course, being a two year old (at best), she wanted her mom, so started to go into the water after her. I saw all of this happening, and just as I started to yell at the mom (who was closer to the kid than I was), a wave smacked the baby in the face and knocked her down. Had there been a strong undertow that day, that kid could have drowned, but luckily between my yelling and the baby shrieking, the mom turned around, started screaming hysterically, and plucked her out of the surf.

Now, THAT'S a parenting fail! :mad:

Deleted User wrote: »

We used to goto the pool by ourselves and do loads of stupid stuff when we were young.. If I had died, I wouldn't like to think that someone was held to blame. It's an accident, not neglect or bad parenting.

We used to go every Saturday, sometimes for two sessions and different pools. I couldn't count the number of times a lifeguard saved either myself or one of my mates from our own stupidity ... anything from warning us against running on slippy tiles to actually jumping in after a guy who overestimated is strength to make it to the other side.

But we never told anyone about these incidents, we just went to the shops after for sweets and forgot about it.

I've no doubt that for every one child that's drowned, hundreds are saved.

cozzie55

kelle wrote: »

There was a similar tragedy in Co. Meath last year.

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/navan/articles/2010/08/25/3999525-pool-death-report-remains-unpublished/

Very tragic, and my condolances to the families of these two little boys.

I have always been wary of children in water, and would not have trusted a few lifeguards to be able to watch a huge number of children at once. It's different leaving a child in a play centre, but in water a child can be dead in seconds.

I know from experience that you need to designate one person to watch one child/group of children. If more than one is supervising, one can easily think the other is watching and get carried away doing something else - so in effect nobody is supervising the child!

For example, years ago I took my then 18-month-old son to a hotel to meet up with my mother and 4 aunts. I had to take an important call on my mobile and I asked the 5 of them if they'd watch my son- they said they would. I came back 5 minutes later, they were sitting chatting, no sign of my son. They had forgotten about him because each one thought another was watching him. He had ran out the hotel back door and could have been killed! If I had asked just one person to watch him, that person would have been on full alert and he would not have gone missing.

I'm sure lifeguards have a rule like that when it comes to supervising swimmers. But at the end of the day, a parent or one designated adult is better to be present and watch their own, they're not as likely to take their eyes off the child/group of children.

Exactly what might have been a factor!

We (lifeguards) generally divide up the pool. generally one person is watch the learner pool and one the main 25 metre pool and then as more staff are present these sections get subdivided depending on the number of staff.

Its is impossible for parents to expect the lifeguards to mind their children specifically when it is our job to mind everyone.Depending on how many everyone is it gets easier and easier to miss one child in the pool area OR adult i should point out

the_syco

Sykk wrote: »

Maybe it's just me

Christ all f**king mighty. The pool could hold 200 people with ease. The lifeguards cannot look at all the people at the same time. If someone went under water they wouldn't be seen, esp if there was a sun glare on the pool surface. So of course it's just you.

WindSock wrote: »

No, but it's kind of their job to be looking out for the pool users.

To ensure they don't endanger their own lives or the lives of others by their own stuidity.

He was said to have got into difficulty near a waterfall area of the 25-metre fun pool, which also has a flume and fountains.

I wonder if anyone will say what he was doing there. Also, wat age were the adults? Are we talking 18 year olds, or 55?

kelle

cozzie55 wrote: »

Its is impossible for parents to expect the lifeguards to mind their children specifically when it is our job to mind everyone.Depending on how many everyone is it gets easier and easier to miss one child in the pool area OR adult i should point out

That's exactly why I prefer to supervise my own children. Lifeguards do an excellent job, but they're human at the end of the day and their eyes can't be everywhere at once. Once anything happens the child, there's no going back.

Wile E. Coyote

Sykk wrote: »

Parenting fail.

Stupid bitch should never be allowed kids again, tragedy.

Posting fail.

Should never be let near a keyboard again.

Try reading the full story before passing judgement on someone!

Sykk

chatterpillar wrote: »

And ... you somehow know that she didn't speak to the three adults to whom she was entrusting her son?

I don't see that in the article, and it seems kind of unlikely to me ...

If she did then I'm in the wrong... I'm only going by what I can read here. Assumptions.

Unpossible

monkeypants wrote: »

Questioning her involvement or the involvement of the other adults present doesn't get a compensation payout from the council.

Bingo, plus its easier to point the finger at the staff than herself and the other adults.
No matter how crowded though I know I would feel terrible in the lifeguards situation.

Pace2008

kelle wrote: »

T. Once anything happens the child, there's no going back.

Shows what you know

Also, I think the word “accident” should be removed from the English dictionary, as it seems to have no meaning to so many people.

southsiderosie

LittleBook wrote: »

We used to go every Saturday, sometimes for two sessions and different pools. I couldn't count the number of times a lifeguard saved either myself or one of my mates from our own stupidity ... anything from warning us against running on slippy tiles to actually jumping in after a guy who overestimated is strength to make it to the other side.

Which is exactly why adults need to keep an eye on their kids even when there are lifeguards...because when the guards are yelling at one kid to stop running, or to go back to the shallow end, a kid on the different side of the pool could slip underwater...

The other issue is, parents don't discipline their own kids, so it makes the lifeguards harder to do their jobs. I was a guard 12 years ago, and even then sometimes if I told a kid they couldn't go too deep (or reprimanded them in some way), I'd have parents arguing with me. I can't imagine what it is like now. And of course these are the very kinds of people who, if something happens, want to turn around and blame the guards or the council.

Sofiztikated

southsiderosie wrote: »

Which is exactly why adults need to keep an eye on their kids even when there are lifeguards...because when the guards are yelling at one kid to stop running, or to go back to the shallow end, a kid on the different side of the pool could slip underwater...

The other issue is, parents don't discipline their own kids, so it makes the lifeguards harder to do their jobs. I was a guard 12 years ago, and even then sometimes if I told a kid they couldn't go too deep (or reprimanded them in some way), I'd have parents arguing with me. I can't imagine what it is like now. And of course these are the very kinds of people who, if something happens, want to turn around and blame the guards or the council.

This.

We have a pool in the hotel in work, and we keep it strictly over 16s, because

a) it's a hydrotherapy pool, there are (surprisingly) strong jets in it,
b)it's 5 foot deep the whole way along, there's no shallow end,
c)it's an adult facility,
d)we have no lifeguard on duty.

You have no idea how many times we get, "Ah but he's a strong swimmer" or "Ah, but she'll be with me."

No is no.

Erica<3

Like someone else said, lifeguards aren't babysitters, BUT they should be keeping a close eye on the pool at all times.

More than likely it was negligence on behalf of the adults surrounding him, and the lifeguards. He could have been caught by the current of someone else swimming, of someone coming down the slide, a leg cramp, anything.

I have a cousin who's eight, and she thinks she's a fabulous swimmer but she basically just takes really shallow breaths while remaining upright in the pool and head flat back to keep her face dry as she doesn't like water on her face

Frightens the bejesus out of me because i'm afraid that she's going to take a mouthful of water instead of taking a breath or that she will deprive her body of oxygen from not breathing properly and faint in the water or something.

stbrennan

urg great! another Friday the 13th remake....

kylith

WindSock wrote: »

No, but it's kind of their job to be looking out for the pool users.

Yes, but don't forget that the lifeguard may have 60 or 100 more kids to be looking out for too. They do their best, but they only have 2 eyes.

I spent many years on the side of a pool in my youth and the amount of people who use lifeguards as babysitters is unbelievable. We even had one woman who used to take advantage of some of the nicer LGs and would put her child in the pool, tell the lifeguard to put her into her class at whatever time, then shag off to the jacuzzi or to the gym. As soon as supervisors heard this she was told to cop herself on PDQ.