Eircom at my door lying

wires

Jeff34634 wrote: »

Thats a nice assumption..

what assumption is that?

bastados

Am about to jump from Diginet to Eircom...both are 8meg packages but the new Eircom deal is zero contention with the relay station being just around the corner.
Now I game online most evenings so my connection needs to be quite good but in recent months my Diginet speeds had been a little iffy but in the main good.I am really hoping the package am buying into is better.Anyone know of the new contention free packages Eircom are offering?.

Baneblade

its not contention free its congestion free, at least at the moment

bealtine

bastados wrote: »

Am about to jump from Diginet to Eircom...both are 8meg packages but the new Eircom deal is zero contention with the relay station being just around the corner.

It's just a backhaul upgrade so new new speeds for customers and no "congestion" until lots of people start to use it (the bandwidth)

flamegrill

There's no viable FTTH service here yet. Magnet have around 100 exchanges unbled for LLU DSL. They have a number of housing estates, apartment blocks where they got in back in the celtic tiger days to provide tripple play services (phone/internet/tv) all over their fibre network. I'm not sure if that is actually viable.

One thing's for sure, there won't be anymore exchanges upgraded or estates/apartment blocks added anytime soon. UPC probably have the easiest network upgrade to get people to 120Mbit/s and that's something we'll probably see in 2011 in at least the bigger cities.

FTTH would require a huge investment in last mile and it'd only be possible in a small number of towns/cities currently because there's no backhaul from some of the MANs back to where the internet lives i.e. Dublin :-)

Jeff34634

wires wrote: »

what assumption is that?

That all sales guys are desperate and about to lose their home if u don't sign up like..really.. were do you come up with that stuff..

Yea I don't think we will see FTTH roll out anytime soon like why would we need it anyway? I have 15mb on upc and i rarely ever find a website or torrent capable of uploading 15mb/s to me.

wires

Jeff34634 wrote: »

That all sales guys are desperate and about to lose their home if u don't sign up like..really.. were do you come up with that stuff.

so if you were in a job you didnt like you would leave in the morning and suffer no financial consequences??...lucky you. i was speaking generally, i conseed that but if, as everyone here says, this job is so horrible then why else would they still be doing it?

Jeff34634 wrote: »

Yea I don't think we will see FTTH roll out anytime soon like why would we need it anyway? I have 15mb on upc and i rarely ever find a website or torrent capable of uploading 15mb/s to me.

now your making the assumption. does upc cable work in rural areas and/or will it ever be rolled out to rural areas? if not then it can never service all the entire population so clearly something else is needed. dsl btw also does not service rural areas. in order to recieve dsl you need to be within a certain distance from the exchange which results in people in rural areas with no broadband. again i am speaking generally but you say 'why would we need it anyway?' clearly something is needed because upc seem to be the only decent isp in the whole country and just how much of the country do they service???

bealtine

[QUOTE=Jeff34634;68821548

Yea I don't think we will see FTTH roll out anytime soon like why would we need it anyway? I have 15mb on upc [/QUOTE]

Translation "I'm all right jack" and nobody else needs what I have.
What about the vast majority of the country?

Jeff34634

Who's saying they don't like their job though? Thats a grand assumption, I know a few sales guys myself that love their job. Thats what I'm trying to say to you..

I was comparing UPC to FTTH not dsl, FTTH would of had a slower rollout than cable and I am just saying for people who are waiting for it upc is a perfect alt.

wires

Jeff34634 wrote: »

Who's saying they don't like their job though? Thats a grand assumption, I know a few sales guys myself that love their job. Thats what I'm trying to say to you..

I was comparing UPC to FTTH not dsl, FTTH would of had a slower rollout than cable and I am just saying for people who are waiting for it upc is a perfect alt.

Yeah, fair enough, point taken. I guess I just have a hard time believing anyone would actually enjoy going door to door telling lies but different strokes perhaps. I do doubt they all enjoy doing that though so surely its unfair to tar them all with the same brush. As I said before I would blame eircom for this as it was posted that they encourage the sales staff to do whatever is necessary to make the sale...that only leads to one conclusion.

I would love UPC broadband but I seriously doubt they will be running cable around all the roads. Can't even get dsl as I am 8km from the exchange. You might be forgiven for thinking I live in the middle of nowhere but I am only 40 minutes from Dublin in a pretty highly populated rural area. Point is hsdpa doesn't work, dsl doesn't work everywhere and fixed wireless needs line of sight so clearly something else is needed...either some new dsl implementation or something different. I don't know but maybe fiber is the answer???

Sponge Bob

wires wrote: »

I don't know but maybe fiber is the answer???

It is but you folks gotta lay it in your own areas and as far as the general areas of the M1 or M4 motorways ( possibly the M3 too) where you will be able to pick up backhaul to Dublin. There is nothing along the N7 or N11

Jeff34634

I know your pain mate I was stuck on fixed wireless in my rural home for over a year getting not much better than dial up speed, then eventually eircom showed up giving me 7mb! but not really it was downgraded to 1mb due to instability..

I think eircom are really pushing this next gen stuff, a sales guy came to my brothers house the other day, was very pushy he actually got him to sign up! Hours later he realized he had been what I like to call "sales guy'd" and cancelled it.

Cantona's Collars

The bean counters in Eircom are only interested in figures and have little regard for the guy's actually out on the streets knocking on doors trying to get sales.It's target driven and that puts sales staff under pressure to sign people up so invariably it ends up with a sales person saying anything to get a sale.
If they had a half decent product without ridiculous line rental charges etc. people wouldn't mind signing up.Take UPC as an example-not perfect but the best we have in the country at the moment.If I had UPC in my area I'd order it asap,I can get eircom no problem but won't take it,price and restrictive download limits which my current isp doesn't have.
Why do Eircom increase speeds(term used loosely) while lowering download caps-10gb per month is ludicrous.

wires

zerks wrote: »

Why do Eircom increase speeds(term used loosely) while lowering download caps-10gb per month is ludicrous.

as far as i can see they arent lowering the caps as they didnt/were unable to enforce the caps before ngb. it all started out with 10gb when dsl was first introduced (i think) so bringing in new (this is before ngb) products with 'higher monthly allowance' was just another sales thing. now the whole process starts over again and you will see the caps slowly increase in new 'better' products to get more sales. this is big business, they are not here to serve your interests but their own. im not making excuses for them, its just the reality of it.

bealtine

flamegrill wrote: »

There's no viable FTTH service here yet.

There's plenty of fibre running east to west but very little to the "regions".
With that in mind I see IrelandOffline have been working on a plan to spread fibre out in the "regions" by asking local authorities to include fibre ducting in all civil engineering works, that ould include sewerage and roads.

http://irelandoffline.org/2010/10/irelandoffline-have-quietly-been-working-on-a-plan/

Jeff34634

What isp would be selling the fibre? Magnet? I don't really like magnet they just seem to be leeching off people that don't like eircom.. Because they won't give you standard broadband if you don't already have an eircom line..

Magnet: Rory

Jeff34634 wrote: »

What isp would be selling the fibre? Magnet? I don't really like magnet they just seem to be leeching off people that don't like eircom.. Because they won't give you standard broadband if you don't already have an eircom line..

We have a different network to eircom, in many cases we don't even use the eircom lines (fibre services). In other cases we only need the copper in between the house and the exchange, once at the exchange our customers enter our own equipment and our own network.

I can understand your misconception, unfortunately this misunderstanding of our services is all too common so I thought it only fair to give our side.

watty

Jeff34634 wrote: »

What isp would be selling the fibre? Magnet? I don't really like magnet they just seem to be leeching off people that don't like eircom.. Because they won't give you standard broadband if you don't already have an eircom line..

That's a little confused.
1) BT business, Digiweb/Smart and Magnet (alphabetically) have fibre. That doesn't use eircom at all.

2)BT business, Digiweb/Smart and Magnet (alphabetically) have "LLU". That only uses the copper pair from exchange to your premises and some space, MDF capacity and electricity in the exchange. This is all ADSL2+ or possibly even VDSL2 in some places (newest DSLAMs do either), so Peak "up to speed" is 24Mbps and average length line is 6Mbps to 8Mbps depending on crosstalk (how many other people in same cable bundle have DSL) and quality (all kinds of stuff including noise, cable inherent quality, number and quality of cabinets and connections).

"Bitstream" is resold eircom DSL. It uses eircom DSLAM (either 8Mbps peak, 3Mbps for average distance if original ADSL or 24 Mbps peak with 6Mbps to 8Mbps on average distance on ADSL2+ DSLAM enabled exchanges). There are rumours that some exchanges have a mix of DSLAM types depending which shelf your line goes to (a DSLAM shelf or unit in a rack is 48 or 96 lines).

BT transferred their retail "bitstream" to Vodafone.
Digiweb had some LLU and fibre even before taking over wreckage of Smart. Though not many people outside of industry knew about their LLU.
Magnet originally was only company doing an interesting variant of LLU called GLUMP (sorry if there are any mistakes in that Rory, check history and you see why I apologise )

Digiweb/Smart and Magnet both also resell eircom DSL (bitstream). They probably don't make much doing it, revenue wise, it probably helps eircom most. But it means when they have enough customers on an exchange they can consider installing their own DSLAM and Backhaul (LLU) and both improve the customer QOS and Speed and eventually when capital expenditure recovered, more profit.

It's not simple. Also regulator inaction meant that LLU was 10 years late being cost effective. It's now too late as it's better to invest in fibre (FTTH/FTTP or FTTC).

From http://www.techtir.ie/comms/fibre-helps-mobile
No matter what technology is used of DSL, without "bonding" multiple phone lines to your house, those at extreme distance only get 1Mbps and those at average distance only get 6Mbps to 8Mbps on a single copper pair.

VDSL2 can do 250Mbps. There are experimental 1000Mbps solutions for copper phone wires (uses multiple pairs). But these speeds are only on copper pair from a fibre fed cabinet in your street (FTTC). Or Fibre to an Apartment block wired internally with phone cables or CAT5e.

eircom and DSL is fast becoming irrelevant. DSL (copper pair phone wire to exchange) can't compete with UPC HFC. It can only offer about 10% to 15% of people high speed Broadband.

The future is clear, it's fibre. Universal mix of FTTH in urban/suburb (100Mbps MINIMUM), FTTC in suburb/Rural (30Mbps Minimum) and a small amount of Fixed Wireless with real 20Mbps to very isolated people would cost about €1.5B, less than Metro North, about 1/3rd of eircom's debt, or a bit less than two years eircom revenue. If it was a wholesale universal network used by all and the copper closed down, it might even be in profit in 5 years.

You can get fibre ANYWHERE that ESB gets to, not much more expense than running phone wires! You can string it on wooden poles (ESB and eircom) and on street lights. You can feed it down sewers or trench 1km a day per team on a country road.

The problem is Government promoting mobile Phone as NBS/Broadband solution and eircom market dominance. The big non-eircom ISPs can't borrow the money and eircom can't with almost €4.7Billion debt at lasat buy out (about 3/4 artificial from leveraged buyouts/asset stripping).

In a greater irony the route to better Mobile Data performance and Voice coverage for Mobile is to take traffic OFF the Mobile network. All fixed users to fibre. Also the Mobile operators can deploy Femto Cells and get free "cell backhaul" via your Broadband. The NBS is the wrong way round The USA has now as many Femto cells as real masts.
Universal mostly Fibre Broadband would dramatically improve Real Mobile user's speeds to x4 in many cases and reduce Mobile Operator costs for Cell backhaul. Also create a market for Femto cells.

oneweb

Door-to-door salespeople are the scum of the earth. The number of times I had to listen to someone tell me what they were promised and signing up for they-weren't-exactly-sure-what was unreal. I then had to tell them when they called support that their line wouldn't support it or they were actually put on something more expensive.

NEVER sign up with ANYTHING from ANYONE calling to your door. Unless you like surprises.

watty

Or cold phone calls, snail mail or email...

dub45

Or "unlimited".

wires

oneweb wrote: »

NEVER sign up with ANYTHING from ANYONE calling to your door. Unless you like surprises.

thats common sense i would have thought but maybe not. actually i signed up for board gas electricity about 6 months ago, lady came calling to the door. havent had any supprises yet...exception to the rule methinks

bastados

Baneblade wrote: »

its not contention free its congestion free, at least at the moment

Can they legally change the product to something else?..meaning if I sign up for an uncongested package are they allowed change it down the line?.

Dcully

We have a different network to eircom, in many cases we don't even use the eircom lines (fibre services). In other cases we only need the copper in between the house and the exchange, once at the exchange our customers enter our own equipment and our own network.

I can understand your misconception, unfortunately this misunderstanding of our services is all too common so I thought it only fair to give our side.

Is this the case for your 8mb broadband Rory?

bastados

Can anyone put me clear on what I do to cancel a package I ordered?...am due to receive an Eircom NGB package this coming week but am afraid that the details of the sale I put my name to were in error and the service(it would seem) will have terrible upload speed (I have a good constant 1mg presently which am happy with)...I know about the 7 days grace to think about it once I recieve it but how does this work exactly and whats the right procedure to sent it back and cancel all?

irishjig69b

bastados wrote: »

Can anyone put me clear on what I do to cancel a package I ordered?...am due to receive an Eircom NGB package this coming week but am afraid that the details of the sale I put my name to were in error and the service(it would seem) will have terrible upload speed (I have a good constant 1mg presently which am happy with)...I know about the 7 days grace to think about it once I recieve it but how does this work exactly and whats the right procedure to sent it back and cancel all?

what area were u in???????

Freddie59

dub45 wrote: »

Or "unlimited".

Or "uncongested"

Or "NGB"
:P:D

suppafly

I have UPC at the moment for everything and I most say i think the broadband is fairly poor. Its supposed to be 15mb but usually i only get around 5mb. When downloading files I can get up to 800kbps but the speeds seem to vary wildly. Also the range of the wireless from the modem they supply you with is shocking. Ours is down stairs in the front room and in my room upstairs i get like 2 bars, sometimes 3, reception. We have wooden floors in our house so its not like it has to go through some really thick walls and floors or anything. Also on a side note their tv service is abismal. There system is soo slow to use compared with sky. It takes ages for the guide to come up to move to another channel or anything. Also i leave in cork city so its not like i'm out in the wilderness. Needless to say we have swiftly moved back to sky and eircom. At least with eircom i always got a solid 3mb connection.

suppafly

Oh ya also on the topic of the thread those sales people are called Feet on the Streets(FOTS). I used to work for eircom customer service and these people were the worst. They would regularly go around doing this and worse to get people and then the customer would ring up all pissed off that they had beenn missold something and not been told the hold story so they got a shock when they would receive their first bill.

bastados

irishjig69b wrote: »

what area were u in???????

What does that have to do with my question?...a question for a question.

Anyway I sent the NGB modem package back once I received it...if they call or contact I'll tell them I just couldn't get enough info on the package I was buying into.
Ringing Eircom is really a nightmare if you aren't on their books.