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advice-establishing new beds

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  • 27-08-2010 4:23pm
    #1
    countrywoman
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭


    hi there

    looking for more advice. my brother is going to do some work around my house with a mini digger next week. i was thinking that it would be really handy to get my flower beds dug out as i would be years doing them with a spade!!!.

    just going to ask him to take the grass off and i can dig down myself and edge it.would that be ok? do i need to do anything else?

    i wont be able to afford to plant anything until next year...just wondering should i get some well rotted farmyard manure and dig it in, so as to have the area fertilised, or is there anything else i should do? should i cover it with plastic?

    then i'm wondering about a suitable edging. i know nothing about railway sleepers. if i put them in (i mean my brother!!), how do they need to be set...in concrete? do they rot? is there anything else i need to know

    thanks!


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    #2
    countrywoman
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭countrywoman


    can anyone offer any advice re my questions please


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    #3
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    It's a good chance to save some labour...

    Along with removing the grass he could turn over the soil with the mini-digger..
    Yes throw on lots of manure, as much as you can get...
    Cover with plastic and weight down well from the wind...

    The manure will rot down well over the winter and the plastic wil minimise what grows in the line of weeds...

    You could keep a natural edge with the lawn or divide it with sleepers, sleepers are fine, heavy enough to sit by themselves and not require setting in concrete, they will last 20+ years without rotting.. using alot of sleepers in a small garden gets a bit overpowering so I'd be careful of that...


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    #4
    countrywoman
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭countrywoman


    thanks for that BBAM. the garden is huge but i know what you men about overpowering

    that's great about the sleepers, because i thought i would have to treat them with some sort of preservative and then get them set in concrete. less work than i envisaged!


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    #5
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    I'm not sure about new sleepers, I've only dealt with old railway sleepers... they are already preserved and last an erernity..

    If you're planning on a perennial bed here is a website (http://www.gardens4you.ie/) I bought some from last spring and they did exceptionally well in just one season... I bought some of their "Complete Gardens" I'll be back shopping there soon for spring flowering gardens..


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    #6
    jezko
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭jezko


    countrywoman wrote: »
    hi there

    looking for more advice. my brother is going to do some work around my house with a mini digger next week. i was thinking that it would be really handy to get my flower beds dug out as i would be years doing them with a spade!!!.

    just going to ask him to take the grass off and i can dig down myself and edge it.would that be ok? do i need to do anything else?

    i wont be able to afford to plant anything until next year...just wondering should i get some well rotted farmyard manure and dig it in, so as to have the area fertilised, or is there anything else i should do? should i cover it with plastic?

    then i'm wondering about a suitable edging. i know nothing about railway sleepers. if i put them in (i mean my brother!!), how do they need to be set...in concrete? do they rot? is there anything else i need to know

    thanks!


    You don't need to dig this Flower beds.
    First Burn off the Grass (if you have no issues with Chemicals use Roundup/Gallup which Kills Most Plants (anything it touches it affects)

    I would for a large area just Get as Much FYM (Farm Yard Manure) as possible and cover the "Beds" 3-4 Inches deep...
    Allow Nature to Break down into Soil .. By Next Year you have a Decent bed to plant into...

    Don't Use plain Plastic to cover the Area...Use a Woven plastic called Mypex (Or Similar) for your Shrub beds ONLY!!

    And what do you have to use as a Mulch!! on top of the plastic.... Which in a New Bed looks Orrid... and tends to catch every Wind!!

    if you plant into plain plastic sheet .. each hole becomes a point where water soaks into the soil (so every place you plant will get all the extra water from the surrounding area and can cause the plant to "Rot" in the ground!

    However if you change the plant's seasonally or grow Herbaceous Perennials then don't use any Plastic...

    You have one Year to Spray off EVERY WEED that pops it's vile head up, after a year of being Burnt off MOST Pernnial weeds will have died off... otherwise be Very weak... and after planting Hoe and SpotTreat!!
    As for Edging you can also use Tree Trunks, Stones and even just a 90 degree cut down into the soil along the lawn edge.. and get a "Petrol strimmer or even just a manual one (large sissors!!) to Edge the lawn
    Railway Sleepers are excellent ... But Original one's (Which look the Best and last ) are bloody expensive!! Got quotes of 50 Quid EACH!!!


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    #7
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    The black plastic is only a weed barrier as the ground is idle... I wouldn't recommend planting through it...


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    #8
    TheFatMan
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭TheFatMan


    Got some good railway sleepers in Baltinglass for €25 each.

    Other alternative is Tanilized sleepers. Not as dark but treated to avoid rot. Used them on kids play area 4 years ago and they are still in great shape. USed these as didnt want the creosote all over the kids clothes

    Use re-bar and drill holes in sleepers put sleepers in place and drive home rebar thru the sleeper to keep in anchored. Can do this with sleepers 3 high and brings the raised bed up to a level that even someone in a wheel-chair could garden at a comfortable level.

    My additional advice about prep would be do double dig the bed (digger is perfect for doing this easily). And insure manure is down into the sub layers of soil too.


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    #9
    Sonnenblumen
    Registered Users Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭Sonnenblumen


    bbam wrote: »
    The black plastic is only a weed barrier as the ground is idle... I wouldn't recommend planting through it...

    Why as a matter of interest would you not recommend Mypex (several imitators) which is the preferred permeable weed (allowing the soil access to water and air) barrier of choice used by the vast majority of professional gardeners/landscapers, Plant Nurseries etc etc throughout all of Europe?

    Despite being easy to instal, durable and long lasting, many people fail to instal correctly but that would hardly be a reason for not using it?

    Mypex is an excellent membrane for planting areas where less weed maintenance is preferred.


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    #10
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    Sonnenblumen wrote: »
    Why as a matter of interest would you not recommend Mypex (several imitators) which is the preferred permeable weed (allowing the soil access to water and air) barrier of choice used by the vast majority of professional gardeners/landscapers, Plant Nurseries etc etc throughout all of Europe?

    Despite being easy to instal, durable and long lasting, many people fail to instal correctly but that would hardly be a reason for not using it?

    Mypex is an excellent membrane for planting areas where less weed maintenance is preferred.

    OP was planning to dig over the area now when the digger is in and then leave and create the beds next year... If they are not covered with an opaque cover light will cause weeds to germinate and the area will be overgrown in no time..

    Something like 1200 gauge builders poly would prevent this happening but allow the manure to breakdown and improve the soil.... A "no dig" technique was suggested but I find that this depends on the soil and if the topsoil is scarse it doesn't work that well..

    Actually membrane is a good product but that depends what you cover it with... From jobs I've done and seen done by others it is really suited to being covered by gravel/crushed slate or similar non organic topping... If covered by bark or similar it will only work for a few years and then is a bigger problem as the bark breaks down, debri from the planting decays and forms a rich soil or compost layer which will grow weeds anyway....then you have a membrane buried under 2-3 inches of fertile compost.

    Depending on the desired effect weed control can be acheived by applying bark mulch deeper straight onto the soil once the perrenial weeds have been eliminated... it will need topping up every few years and as it breaks down it feeds and conditions the soil.. A deeper layer of mulch can be afforded if the cost of membrane is eliminated.


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    #11
    Sonnenblumen
    Registered Users Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭Sonnenblumen


    Weed barriers are intended to prevent rooted weeds coming through to the surface and have no impact on preventing weed growth on top layer (not matter what the topdressing). Unlike the cheap alternatives, Mypex will certainly work much longer than a few years.

    Simply applying a layer of manure on compacted soil (after digger) and covering with PVC and expecting soil condition to self improve would be wishful.


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    #12
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    Sonnenblumen wrote: »
    Weed barriers are intended to prevent rooted weeds coming through to the surface and have no impact on preventing weed growth on top layer (not matter what the topdressing). Unlike the cheap alternatives, Mypex will certainly work much longer than a few years.

    Simply applying a layer of manure on compacted soil (after digger) and covering with PVC and expecting soil condition to self improve would be wishful.

    OP was asking for advice...
    I gave my advice and it has wroked excellantly for me in the past..
    You should pass on your advice and let OP decide what suits them best..

    Being confrontational or knocking other users opinions is not what boards is about.. I think thats called trolling


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    #13
    countrywoman
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭countrywoman


    thanks for all the advice!!

    my brother used the digger today. i just want to have the beds dug out when we had use of the digger. i'm going to put loads of farm yard manure in and upturn turf that i have from another area of the garden.
    hopefully they will decompose and provide fertile beds for next year!!
    thanks again


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    #14
    Corsendonk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭Corsendonk


    Old used carpet or lino works just as good for covering the bed over winter and its cheap:) unlike some of the garden centre products recommended. It doesn't have to cost you a fortune to plant out if you grow from seed next year and less chance to bring disease in from garden centres.


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    #15
    TheFatMan
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭TheFatMan


    last year I covered my veg beds with Cardboard.
    Company I work for had a bunch of big flat screens installed and I pilched the boxes from the recycling bin.
    Worked a treat to help breakdown manure and stop weeds. Then shredded it in spring and put in the compost bins.
    This year I've got access to carpet pieces that roll and store.


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    #16
    Sonnenblumen
    Registered Users Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭Sonnenblumen


    bbam wrote: »
    OP was asking for advice...
    I gave my advice and it has wroked excellantly for me in the past..
    You should pass on your advice and let OP decide what suits them best..

    Being confrontational or knocking other users opinions is not what boards is about.. I think thats called trolling

    Hold on there a minute, take a chill pill. This here is an open forum where ideas are sought, exchanged, discussed etc. If opinions vary, posters can make up their own minds. Important though to distinguish between opinion and informed advice!

    Happy gardening:)


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