Whats applied maths like?

Chuchoter

Looking through the book and I can't quite tell if it looks impossible or actually fairly doable. I'm doing maths and physics, will applied maths make them easier?

i like pie

it won't help maths but it will help physics up to a point! the physics q's are very basic however compared to the applied maths ones!! applied maths is a tough subject and you really need a good teacher (which i didn't have) to expain it! i did it for six months and hated it. i went that far because it was the only part relevant to physics, i dropped it as soon as i could!! i just couldn't get my head around it even though i did honours maths and physics for the lc and got a's in both:rolleyes: oh and the applied maths book we used was rubbish, there were not enough examples and they were really hard to follow

niamhallen

the mechanics part of physics is the basis for alot off applied maths so you'll have a basic understanding of what's going on.

irish_man

I'm thinking of doing applied maths as a repeat. i got a B1 in physics and a C1 in maths. (higher of course :P) I could have done better in maths but i knew it was my 7th subject and wouldn't be counted.

So what i'm wondering is would I be suited to it?

Maths and Physics help Applied Maths.
Applied Maths in turn helps Physics, but only helps maths in a very slight way.

If you're doing honours maths, there's no need to be afraid of the standard in Applied Maths. The thing about Applied Maths is that they types of questions never vary. Doing well is really just about repeating exam questions and practice, practice, practice, and if your teacher is worth their salt, this is what they'll do with you.

Good luck with your decision.

the_monkey

wow, long time since i did the LC, but Applied maths is a great subject,
if you are good at maths and are doing Physics, then go for it,
it does make the mech. section in Physics really easy (well it did in 1997 ) , also the Applied Maths is one of the last exams and you can get a ton done in that last week as it will usually be the only subject.

Plus an easter course of it in the institute of education will really help,
Aidan Roantree was a great teacher to have.

TimeToShine

Hard.

(That is most definitely what she said )

It depends on whether or not you like maths, wouldn't do it as a seventh subject though, you've got enough to worry about without adding that workload onto it.

partyatmygaff

It's extraordinarily difficult unless you've an interest in it or are particularly good at Maths AND Physics. Either way you'll need a good teacher or you'll be wasting your time.

irish_man

well i'd be going to the IOE

**Timbuk2**

I personally loved Applied Maths, but I had an excellent teacher! The book is pretty awful though, the worked examples are often done in obscure ways.

The questions in the book are pretty doable, but when you look at the exam paper it's like a whole different level - they're much harder. I even posted on here sometime earlier this year thinking that the exam papers were too hard. However, as many of the posters and my teacher told me, nobody is able to get out most of the questions at first and you need to do questions over and over - it repeats itself a lot!

I ended up with an A2 in the final exam, which I was very happy with. With Applied Maths, the method is much more important than the answer, so you can actually get a lot of questions wrong but still score highly!

Also, I found that Applied Maths helped Physics a bit, but Physics didn't really help Applied Maths. You get great practice at integration and trigonometry in Applied Maths, which are questions in Maths, but the subjects are mostly separate.

Cpt_Blackbeard

You need to be very confident with your Maths if you want to do well, however the course is short and there are only certain question types that come up; You may be able to get an honour by learning the methods.

Because there isn't too much that they can ask, they tend to test you by disguising the question or the answer. You have to be very comfortable with basic maths ,triangles (They pop up everywhere) and playing with what you know/the values you have. If you are the type to panic when you get a Maths question wrong, its not the subject for you.:(

All that said, its a very rewarding subject :rolleyes:. In my school ,anyway, everyone seemed to want to better one another and get out the questions others couldn't manage :cool:.

Cpt_Blackbeard

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

With Applied Maths, the method is much more important than the answer, so you can actually get a lot of questions wrong but still score highly!

I can't agree with this more with this. The method is what must have saved me with the hellish Q.5 that came up this year :mad:.

**Timbuk2**

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I can't agree with this more with this. The method is what must have saved me with the hellish Q.5 that came up this year :mad:.

Yes - I can distinctly remember not getting a lot of the answers out, which is always off-putting, especially when have done nearly an A4 page of working through calculations that seem to be leading nowhere. At that stage I normally stop as chances are you aren't gaining any more marks - you would have already gotten a lot of the mark for method.

An example is relative velocity - a topic in Applied Maths which I've never liked for some reason. (BTW OP, there are 10 topics, only 6 have to be answered, normally teachers do around 7/8 topics, so the choice is good). Out of 25 marks, 15 of the marks would go for very basic things that have to be done for every question (find the velocity vectors of body a, body b = 5 marks, find the relative velocity of one to the other, = 5 marks, find the magnitude and direction = 5 marks). So marks accumulate easy enough.

One thing I dislike about applied maths is that often the questions are set up so that if they are done correctly, it often works out quite easily at the end (everything tidies up and you get an easy to work with solution, or something similar). However, if you make a small mistake (maybe just a slip [-1] or a blunder [-3]) it can often lead to the calculations becoming difficult, or sometimes impossible to solve (it even says this in the chief examiners report for 2007 I think) - which can make it slow, even if no extra marks are lost.

If you like Maths, and you like physics, then you will probably love applied maths. I know I did!

RolandIRL

just to add to Timbuk2's posts

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I personally loved Applied Maths, but I had an excellent teacher! The book is pretty awful though, the worked examples are often done in obscure ways.

Agreed. the book is awful.

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

The questions in the book are pretty doable, but when you look at the exam paper it's like a whole different level - they're much harder. I even posted on here sometime earlier this year thinking that the exam papers were too hard. However, as many of the posters and my teacher told me, nobody is able to get out most of the questions at first and you need to do questions over and over - it repeats itself a lot!

Practice, practice, practice. that's all you can really do for a subject like this. most years, the questions tend to be the same as the year before. except for last year when i was doing it. Q7 on moments was too hard and the ladder didn't come up afaik :mad: some stupid bowl come up. but you can still do a really bad question and come out with a really good grade.

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I ended up with an A2 in the final exam, which I was very happy with. With Applied Maths, the method is much more important than the answer, so you can actually get a lot of questions wrong but still score highly!

Congrats. like maths though, even if you did go wrong in a calculation, they only deduct a few marks if you got the method right. so don't sweat if an answer seems funny. you'll have got most of the marks

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Also, I found that Applied Maths helped Physics a bit, but Physics didn't really help Applied Maths. You get great practice at integration and trigonometry in Applied Maths, which are questions in Maths, but the subjects are mostly separate.

Physics helped you understand what you were doing in App Maths a bit but App maths really helped my mechanics in physics. you do tend to understand trig and integration better in maths and recognise patterns quicker.

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Yes - I can distinctly remember not getting a lot of the answers out, which is always off-putting, especially when have done nearly an A4 page of working through calculations that seem to be leading nowhere. At that stage I normally stop as chances are you aren't gaining any more marks - you would have already gotten a lot of the mark for method.

As i said above, most of the marks are given for the method. come out with a wonky answer, JUST LEAVE IT. stick to your timing. no good spending an extra 20 mins for a few marks rather than a whole question.

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

An example is relative velocity - a topic in Applied Maths which I've never liked for some reason. (BTW OP, there are 10 topics, only 6 have to be answered, normally teachers do around 7/8 topics, so the choice is good). Out of 25 marks, 15 of the marks would go for very basic things that have to be done for every question (find the velocity vectors of body a, body b = 5 marks, find the relative velocity of one to the other, = 5 marks, find the magnitude and direction = 5 marks). So marks accumulate easy enough.

don't worry. No one likes relative velocity. too conceptual for me but it got easier in college. they really throw the marks at you. you could just have got the last part wrong (the answer) and you'll still get 20/25 marks

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

One thing I dislike about applied maths is that often the questions are set up so that if they are done correctly, it often works out quite easily at the end (everything tidies up and you get an easy to work with solution, or something similar). However, if you make a small mistake (maybe just a slip [-1] or a blunder [-3]) it can often lead to the calculations becoming difficult, or sometimes impossible to solve (it even says this in the chief examiners report for 2007 I think) - which can make it slow, even if no extra marks are lost.

agreed. a wonky answer does make it a bit more difficult if you need it for the next section but for this, i found if you just let X = that answer and leave it until the end to sub it in, it really makes the question go a lot smoother

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

If you like Maths, and you like physics, then you will probably love applied maths. I know I did!

so did i. it's a short enough course. but don't just do the bare 6 topics. my grinds teacher done 7 with me but i said i'd leave out Relative Velocity. big mistake cos my Moments question was the hardest and i couldn't make head nor tail of it but i still came out with a B1, and i kinda screwed up the projectile question as well.

CR 7

It's a while since I did it, but the small brown book (I think there's only 2 available) is excellent.

It helped me a lot with integration/differentiation, and the mechanics questions have been very useful for a lot of college subjects. For me, it was the easiest subject, and had the best result to effort put in ratio. For some reason, I struggled through 5th and most of 6th year to get most of it, then finally something just clicked in my head, and everything made sense.

I think the teacher you have is very important too, someone with a technical or engineering background will make it a lot easier for you.

the_monkey

Out of interest I would love to see the paper, just to see how much the course has changed since i did it back in '97 , is it available online ?

CantStandMeNow

Yeah the book is pretty terrible, there is a ridiculous step up from the examples in the book to the exam papers! But having said that it's a seriously small course, I did it in one year and got a B1.. somehow.. I was fairly blessed with the paper though! Its definetly doable though

CantStandMeNow

the_monkey wrote: »

Out of interest I would love to see the paper, just to see how much the course has changed since i did it back in '97 , is it available online ?

http://www.examinations.ie/archive/exampapers/2010/LC020ALP000EV.pdf

RolandIRL

the_monkey wrote: »

Out of interest I would love to see the paper, just to see how much the course has changed since i did it back in '97 , is it available online ?

yes it is
http://examinations.ie/index.php?l=en&mc=en&sc=ep

EDIT: CSMN beat me to it

**Timbuk2**

whiteman19 - very good points. You did your App Maths in 2009? That Q7 was absolutley awful I couldn't even make any attempt at it, even looking back at previous questions. My App Maths teacher thought it was far too hard and that there were many complaints about it.

CantStandMeNow

whiteman19 wrote: »

yes it is
http://examinations.ie/index.php?l=en&mc=en&sc=ep

EDIT: CSMN beat me to it

I win this round whiteman :P:L

Noo

If you are doing higher maths and physics then you will be well capable of applied maths. I got a B2 in higher maths and didnt do physics but still got an A2 in applied maths.

A good teacher is a big help, i was in a really small class, only about 7 of us, with the best maths teacher ive ever had so i really enjoyed it. If i had her for actual maths i probably would have gotten an A in it too.

As has already been mentioned its the same questions every year, i did it 4 years ago and can still remember the exact layout of the questions.
Dont let people scare you it is not hard at all, it may look daunting but once you know how to do a question just keep practising, if you are well prepared and continously do past papers until the day of the exam theres no reason you cant do well.

ray giraffe

partyatmygaff wrote: »

you'll need a good teacher or you'll be wasting your time.

Applied Maths can be hard to learn if it's not explained well.

If you're looking for a good teacher, check me out. My name is Ray on this site!

evercloserunion

If you're good at maths, applied maths is absolutely doable.

Also, I disagree with others who have said that doing AM doesn't really help with maths. I think the reason I did so well in maths was because I did applied maths. With all LC subjects there is a tendency to try and learn off the entire textbook and regurgitate it in the exam. If you try do this with maths you will create a LOT of work for yourself and probably not do that well in the end. It's much more important to be able to understand the maths you are being taught so that you can apply it yourself in the exam to whatever type of question you are asked. Applied maths makes you do this because, in my experience, there is NO other way to do applied maths. The materials to be learned (formulas etc) are extremely minimal and yet the questions are very diverse and often quite complicated. So I think applied maths forces you to understand and apply the basic rules of maths, and that really helps in straight maths. You get to the point where you don't need to spend a lot of time learning off theorems etc because you can figure them out from first principles anyway.

Of course, it really helps with physics as well. Anything mechanics-related in physics, you're absolutely laughing if you've done applied maths at all.

As for my personal experience. I did the course in a year, very possible. They didn't teach it at my school but we (a friend and I) were lucky enough to get lessons from an excellent teacher at a nearby school. We only had lessons maybe once every three weeks, because I think it's a very DIY kind of course, but that said I agree with the others that a good teacher is important. In the end I got an A2, and as a reference point I got an A1 in maths and A2 in physics. It was possibly my favourite subject; to me, the questions seemed less like study and more like puzzles. As a result though I tended to get quite engrossed in them and I had to be careful that I didn't neglect other subjects. Anyway that's just my two cents about applied maths; I guess if you're interested in (and good at) maths it can be very doable and enjoyable but if you're not that way inclined it could be quite challenging and probably not worth it in the long run.

TL;DR: go for it

EuropeanSon

the_monkey wrote: »

Out of interest I would love to see the paper, just to see how much the course has changed since i did it back in '97 , is it available online ?

It's the same course, but the exams are way easier nowadays. '97 was one of the more difficult papers they've given, along with '98 and '99. Our paper was a joke by comparison.

RolandIRL

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

whiteman19 - very good points. You did your App Maths in 2009? That Q7 was absolutley awful I couldn't even make any attempt at it, even looking back at previous questions. My App Maths teacher thought it was far too hard and that there were many complaints about it.

it was my own fault really. i had 7 questions learned but i decided to leave out Relative Velocity. big mistake. i made some attempt and got 5-8 marks iirc. still better than nothing. still got a good grade \o/
but relative velocity is just a conceptual problem for most. just remember the formula:
V(b|a) = V(b) - V(a) (Velocity of b relative to a = velocity of b - velocity of a)
and that's all you need. i'm doing app maths in college now, and i like relative velocity now. it's a lot easier once you've done a few questions but i just didn't like in LC and totally left it out.
if you want to be really good at app maths, go back and do questions from the early 90's. they're the hardest and it will (almost) prepare you for any question (except Q7 in 2009 :P)