Is culture becoming more generic?

Horse_box

Hi,

I was reading through other threads in this forum and it made me realise how boring and soulless this generation has become. I often look back at the 60's, 70's, 80's, even the 90's and think those eras had more soul and character than this current generation of people.

Look at music for example. Music years ago was about the real feeling it gave you, the rebellious teenage years and the general diversity and happiness it brought to someones life. It was such a large part of someones youth. The charts actually meant something and if you look back through the number 1 spots, a lot of them are still classics even now

In comparison, if you look at todays music and charts, it's easy to see how generic and commercial music has become. It has no real character and lacks the soul of previous generations. Don't get me wrong, there are still some really good bands and musicians out there but they're much harder to find. Real talented musicians find it hard to get commercial success because kids only want to listen to the ''in'' stuff, which is the bland un-inspiring muck being churned out by record companies

What's your opinion on this topic? Do you believe culture has become more generic and to a certain degree lost it's character or is it just a case of me looking back with the nostalgia glasses on?

Edit. I'm not just looking to discuss the music scene exclusivly, every aspect of society can be taken into account

looksee

I think you tend to be nostalgic for the period of your life from childhood to 20s, that is when you are learning and taking notice of what is going on around you, and everything is new to you.

After that you are mostly too busy with your life to pay much attention to cultural changes.

Also in hindsight you pick out certain periods, a group of two or three years maybe, when a lot was going on in, say, music, and you filter them out from the boring bits in between. A bit like only remembering the fine sunny days of your childhood.

Twenty years ago there was really not much more than the production/technology of music that was new and exciting and something to discuss, and also still reasonably localised. Now there are so many things going on (and presumably it will increase) that attention is diverted to computer games, chat rooms, technology.

Also, in Ireland especially, life was very easy for a few years there, the best art tends to be spawned by a certain amount of social pressure, things to protest or lament about, and an audience that agrees and empathises.

nyarlothothep

I think that certain epochs can vary in quality, like boom and bust cycles, I don't think its a uniform flat plane of quality. The 90s for me were culturally the best decade in existence, videogames were better, music was better, films were better, everything was better.

jaffa20

Horse_box wrote: »

Hi,

I was reading through other threads in this forum and it made me realise how boring and soulless this generation has become. I often look back at the 60's, 70's, 80's, even the 90's and think those eras had more soul and character than this current generation of people.

Look at music for example. Music years ago was about the real feeling it gave you, the rebellious teenage years and the general diversity and happiness it brought to someones life. It was such a large part of someones youth. The charts actually meant something and if you look back through the number 1 spots, a lot of them are still classics even now

In comparison, if you look at todays music and charts, it's easy to see how generic and commercial music has become. It has no real character and lacks the soul of previous generations. Don't get me wrong, there are still some really good bands and musicians out there but they're much harder to find. Real talented musicians find it hard to get commercial success because kids only want to listen to the ''in'' stuff, which is the bland un-inspiring muck being churned out by record companies

What's your opinion on this topic? Do you believe culture has become more generic and to a certain degree lost it's character or is it just a case of me looking back with the nostalgia glasses on?

Edit. I'm not just looking to discuss the music scene exclusivly, every aspect of society can be taken into account

I think it is just you being nostalgic really as you've become too accustomed to the changes. It's like when living in the 90's,80's people would always look back on previous eras and think the same.

So, rather than becoming generic, culture loses it's character constantly as is always changing with the times.

amacachi

Music is an easy one to attack, but the only difference between now and then is that a different type of music has been monetized.

In terms of culture being "generic" I'm not sure how that can be tbh. I'm interested in more things than people 100 years ago would've heard of.

JuliusCaesar

The greater ease of communication has lead to less idiosyncracies in culture. Damn the printing press!

Mushy

I don't agree with the nostalgiac part, as I'd easily agree with what the OP has said already. Can see both sides of arguement though. Technology has played its part through many mediums, which has made culture seem more watered-down in comparison to previous decades/eras.

sarkozy

The aesthetic quality of Roman art and architecture declined after Constantine from its classical roots. On the other hand, Roman art and architecture meant much of Europe and the sub-continent looked 'the same' as the Roman Empire was a hegemon. But this view overlooks the regional variations as the forms adapted to context. Things changed as the Roman empire expanded and crumbled; in Europe you had the gradual evolution of Romanesque and Gothic aesthetic forms in addition to Muslim influence from north Africa while in the sub-continent (the Balkans and across the Bosphorous), Christian and Muslim architecture followed different paths. For centuries, Europe became dominated by Byzantine-style religious painting and sculpture while the growing muslim religion in the Balkans and Turkey rejected representativity in favour of abstract, calligraphic design.

My point (if this broad brush overview is in any way accurate) is that things simply change depending on factors like what dominant culture rules, when they fade, flows of humans across time and place, etc. In our case, 'Western culture' is the 'dominant culture', but I'd say it doesn't mean things are becoming similar. Perhaps on a superficial level, seeing signs of 'Western culture' in, say, India, may mean the world is becoming the same. But signs are not fixed - they're made of two components: the thing itself (object, word, image, etc.) and a concept attached to it. These are created by individuals and collectives. Culture is also class-based, and that influences things, too. So what all this means can differ wildly.

This is where I love cultural anthropology. Franz Boas is a really interesting father figure to read on this subject. More recent, through, Marshall Sahlins has written fascinating stuff on globalisation and how, rather than things becoming the same, we're seeing a flourishing of 'traditional' culture among even quite isolated ethnic groups. That such groups are not passive receivers of 'Western culture' but are actively reappropriating cultural artefacts on their own terms, even to the point that certain groups' combining of 'traditional' forms of exchange (e.g. rituals) with 'modern' cosumption creates higher levels of economic activity than the market economy that surrounds them.

So all I can see are complex webs of similarity, appropriation, reinscription and difference.

As for 'our culture' dumbing down, becoming generic. We're subject to the same general processes. It's an old argument. Oh, things were better in the past. Well, I don't know, maybe we should interrogate that instinct to point out homogeneity and see if it's really true because if anything, advanced consumer capitalism (of which we're part) is obsessed with 'differentiation' in order to shift units and make products. The economic base is interrelated with our cultural superstructure. Maybe these 'different' choices are false choices, but with the profusion of sub-cultures in even 'modern' societies, can you say 100% that things are becoming the same? Or is the picture much more complex? Things becoming similar in some ways, different in others. I think it's human instinct to differentiate themselves from others in various ways - 'modern man' becomes quite restless with similarity even though 'modernity' was all about universality and harmony (and similarity?).

funkt

i feel the same way it seems like wer going to be one of those boring generations that will be forgoten fairly quickly

Krusader

This generation will be called the reality tv generation, there's so much of it on TV i actually son't watch much TV anymore, hopefully with Big Brother finish, it will be the beginning of the end.

Mercy Seat

I think this era is as unique as any before it - but I think that the cultural differences between countries - certainly english speaking ones anyway - is becoming more generic. Musically, there's plenty of good stuff. Just as punk and disco happened in the 70s, thrash and glam (and that awful synth stuff) happened in the 80s, 90s is post-punk, grunge, and brit-pop, 2000s... well, im not quite sure, there was definitely nu-metal at the start, but I stopped paying attention to modern stuff for a while after that.

As far as fashion etc goes, I think that there are much more creative clothing out there, much more distinct groups (if you wanted to make a genralisation based on a person's clothes, there's a lot of different columns a person can be put under).

meathawk

Culture has been commodified. So, instead of let's say, people like Bruce Springsteen being the voice of the working class in the 80s, class difference has been resolved to being more of a mass of people who seek the same things. Culture industry is a huge thing, as everyone these days are consumers. Easily digestible songs, easily understood paintings, books without beauty; they become what people seek because of the sheer amount of media these days. Masses want a vague interest in many things, hence, the easier something is to appreciate, the more they seek. Popular songs become popular under this principle. Also, global corporations like record companies have a huge say in what is popular. They are the ones who pay someone to write this bland music. They are the ones who spread these songs, in what can only be assumed as being in a very algorithmic fashion.

krd

meathawk wrote: »

class difference has been resolved to being more of a mass of people who seek the same things.

And what these "same things"?

I don't believe we live in a classless consumerist society.

Irish society in my experience is far less fluid than it had been in the 90s, you could even argue that in some ways it's more conservative now than in 80s or 70s. Any "resolution" I believe has gone in the opposite direction.

Conspicuous consumption is about signing things like class or economic status. The shopping isn't an end in itself.

the_syco

Horse_box wrote: »

In comparison, if you look at todays music and charts, it's easy to see how generic and commercial music has become. It has no real character and lacks the soul of previous generations. Don't get me wrong, there are still some really good bands and musicians out there but they're much harder to find. Real talented musicians find it hard to get commercial success because kids only want to listen to the ''in'' stuff, which is the bland un-inspiring muck being churned out by record companies

Chart music back then was sh|te, and still is sh|te. The difference is that what people liked back then is different to now, and thus because of the fewer examples, you can listen to the best parts. Now, all music is the same. You'll get a few good hits. In a few years times, a few of these hits will be timeless classics, and this age will be seen as a "great age of music" as there was such a variety of different genres available to the public.

One of the key differences between now and 40 years ago is that now, bands come here and play. Bands from the USA, Sweden, etc. This also leads to the core point of your post. As we have many bands to listen to, we don't have to listen to any one band. Thus, the "majority" will be listening to one genre. To become big, people play this genre, and thus only one genre of music seems to become big. We'll take "pop" music. It in its self doesn't relate to any one genre, but rather the "in" thing at any given time.

I'm sure Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, and Motorhead were all on Top Of The Pops ar one time or other, for they were the "popular" music at time. "Ace of Spades" is seen as a classic by some. The entire ABBA catalogue is seen as good by others.

If we only had the Jedward twats and a few local bands with little or no international bands, you'd see a larger diversity of music. But only if you looked. As now, you see a band you like, you listen to other bands like it.

If you wish to "find" less generic music, you'd have to go outside your comfort zone, and listen to other random bands. Some you may find useless, but you may find some you like.

Of course, you may find that you only like one genre, and assume that all the bands you like are generic. Well, you could be right, if you only listen to one genre.

But if you listen to many different types, you'll see there is a huge selection of bands catering to all different tastes.

GoerGirl

I actually think we are at the beginning of an "awakening" in Ireland after years of pretense and apathy.

In the past year or so we have seen a diverse representation of citizens take to the street in active protest - I work in town and was excited to see substantial protests by pensioners, students, nurses and midwives, women campaigning for maternity services, parents campaigning for education, etc.

Our most recent election shows an interesting divide in society between the right and left. Feminism is becoming mainstream; the judgment in ECHR against abortion legislation, female quotas for politics is a mainstream topic, midwives and women are campaigning for women's right to informed choice and autonomy in legislation (Nurses and Midwifery Bill), etc.

As for music, I feel this is on the rise as well after a low period. Social change and sentiments of rebellion are making their way into lyrics once again in many of the indy bands of the moment

exciting times ahead I feel!

krd

"The sixties were an era that spoke a language of inquiry and curiosity and rebelliousness against the stifling and repressive political and social culture of the decade that preceded it. The new generation causing all the fuss was not driven by the market: we had something to say, not something to sell."
Suze Rotolo

The "market" wants docile consumers who'll all eat the same meal without complaining. Consume the same media - which is often just further advertisement for more of the same mass market commodities. MTV started as Television station that played music videos and in it's present form the music - the culture - is absolutely peripheral. We've had more than a decade of Cribs (a real estate porn show) - and the artists rap about bling bling - listing off their purchases and branded possessions.

Often when I hear people complain about culture becoming more generic - they're more often than not complaining about consumer choices becoming more generic.

They're complaining about their shopping choices. And we've had a proliferation of pseudo alternatives since at least the 70s late 60s. Starbucks is only different to McDonalds on an absolutely superficial level. Culture has been replaced by a retail experience.

On Sundays people don't go to the churches anymore they go to Ikea.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I can't see how culture could be said to become more generic. Perhaps the differences between countries have been eroded, but the differences between individuals pursuits and interests has probably grown. Ireland is certainly less conformist than it was in previous decades.

fiona-f

In some ways yes. One element I think is we're terrified of things looking dated - I know when a lot of my friends were choosing wedding dresses, one of the top criteria was something that wouldn't look dated in their photos. Whereas when I look at photos from weddings in my parents' generation, it's great to see the 60s, 70s, 80s looks that people chose and wore with pride.

In terms of music, the manufactured, carefully groomed, brought-together-by-some-star-manager pop band seems to be dominating much more than, e.g. the Stock Aiken and Waterman thing in the 80s.

On the other hand, in Ireland at least, the variety of cuisine for example on offer has increased exponentially in the past 15 years; even small rural towns have a Polish / Lithuanian shop and the aisles of any supermarket are full of delicacies that were unknown to our grandparents.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

fiona-f wrote: »

In some ways yes. One element I think is we're terrified of things looking dated - I know when a lot of my friends were choosing wedding dresses, one of the top criteria was something that wouldn't look dated in their photos. Whereas when I look at photos from weddings in my parents' generation, it's great to see the 60s, 70s, 80s looks that people chose and wore with pride.

Its impossible to avoid having clothes become dated in appearance. Clothes from the early 2000's are already starting to look dated.

barry711

Horse_box wrote: »

Hi,

I was reading through other threads in this forum and it made me realise how boring and soulless this generation has become. I often look back at the 60's, 70's, 80's, even the 90's and think those eras had more soul and character than this current generation of people.

Look at music for example. Music years ago was about the real feeling it gave you, the rebellious teenage years and the general diversity and happiness it brought to someones life. It was such a large part of someones youth. The charts actually meant something and if you look back through the number 1 spots, a lot of them are still classics even now

In comparison, if you look at todays music and charts, it's easy to see how generic and commercial music has become. It has no real character and lacks the soul of previous generations. Don't get me wrong, there are still some really good bands and musicians out there but they're much harder to find. Real talented musicians find it hard to get commercial success because kids only want to listen to the ''in'' stuff, which is the bland un-inspiring muck being churned out by record companies

What's your opinion on this topic? Do you believe culture has become more generic and to a certain degree lost it's character or is it just a case of me looking back with the nostalgia glasses on?

Edit. I'm not just looking to discuss the music scene exclusivly, every aspect of society can be taken into account

What is "generic" in this regard? What is defined as generic that we can compare this generation to and say ok "well music meets the criteria of sounding generic in this generation" all you are suggesting is we compare music from the olden days to todays standards and call it "generic" we could say music from the 60s 70s 80s and today are all generic because they share the same instruments and some share the same tempos and time signatures. Generic by definition.

Culture is changing much like it has done for many decades and this just so happens to be the way our culture is at this time in our lives