Is this a ridiculous statement?

Onecoolcookie

Ridiculous and biased statement

Scholes is a sublime footballer and an absolute joy to watch whereas Fabregas still has it all to prove in my opinion, no contest at the moment but I'm sure Cesc will develop into a great player over the next few seasons

nullzero

Ridiculous and biased statement

Fabregas is a great player, but there's hardly a midfielder in the world of football as brilliant as Scholes at the moment. More of a sad statement than a biased one.

Dempsey

eagle eye wrote: »

I presume people are talking English born player as regards Scholes and there is no doubt in my mind that Steven Gerrard has been the best English born midfielder over the last decade.

I think Scholes is a great, great player but Gerrard just was incredible.

As regards Fabregas, he probably will surpass Scholes at some stage if injuries don't prevent it. Right now though Scholes has done it and Fab is just starting out.

Scholes had a injury plagued 3 seasons, with his eye etc etc. Explain to me exactly how he is a step above Scholes even with that handicap

In my book, they are slightly different players but I couldn't distinguish one above the other without a great argument. Back up your statement please

oconnon9

at the this point in their careers:

Scholes > Fabregas

sidenote - in terms of quality - CL >>>>>> WC

Mr Alan

are some people in here actually saying that Scholes may be better than Fabregas now? if they are those people need lockin up

mink_man

I think alot of people (Utd fans) are on about how scholes is so great because he performs at such a great level giving the age he is at, and consistently aswell...if scholes was still 25 I don't think this argument would be there as to who is/was/is/was/is the better/best player.

Boskowski

Some of the opinions expressed here must be under the influence or so...

Xavi the best player in the world?
He's not even the best in his own club or international side.

If you want to be the best midfielder in the world you gotta have
- both feet practically equally good
- pace
- strong in the air
- deadly passer, and I don't mean dispatching it from left to right no end, I mean the deadly pass into space that creates big time scoring opportunities
- great freetaker plus all other set piece stuff
- scoring goals

Zidane had almost all of this. Even Ballack did. But Xavi?

Don't get me wrong, he's a great player at what he does but IMHO he's fairly one dimensional. I'd find Iniesta better tbh.

Oh, the OP question...: it's ridiculous alright. Not so much the question itself. But I'm not sure it warrants a forum thread tbh. Sounds a bit childish tbh. At the moment it's all Scholes hype for some strange reason. Let's wait and see what his stats are like at the end of the season.

DOC09UNAM

Ridiculous and biased statement

Boskowski wrote: »

Some of the opinions expressed here must be under the influence or so...

Xavi the best player in the world?
He's not even the best in his own club or international side.

If you want to be the best midfielder in the world you gotta have
- both feet practically equally good
- pace
- strong in the air
- deadly passer, and I don't mean dispatching it from left to right no end, I mean the deadly pass into space that creates big time scoring opportunities
- great freetaker plus all other set piece stuff
- scoring goals

Zidane had almost all of this. Even Ballack did. But Xavi?

Don't get me wrong, he's a great player at what he does but IMHO he's fairly one dimensional. I'd find Iniesta better tbh.

Oh, the OP question...: it's ridiculous alright. Not so much the question itself. But I'm not sure it warrants a forum thread tbh. Sounds a bit childish tbh. At the moment it's all Scholes hype for some strange reason. Let's wait and see what his stats are like at the end of the season.

LOL, are you saying Ballack is better than Xavi??

I hope your post was under the influence mate.

eZe^

Beyond ridiculous. Completely retarded statement.

You're delusional. Iniesta is my favourite player in the world, but he can only dream of being as dominant as Xavi is as a midfielder. He's many years away from reaching the same status, the same way Fabregas is a long way away from being in the same hall of fame as Scholes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJhpEL221Hs

Back on topic, Scholes is fantastic, Cesc has the potentially to be fantastic. Scholes is a much much better midfielder than Gerard imo, as Scholes was much more capable at controlling a games tempo, Stevie G's biggest influences come in bursts that change games with individually pieces of inspiration. Scholes would continually dictate the pace and rhythm of a game, something Gerard is very very bad at imo.

Boskowski

For starters. Ballack at his peak, YES.
Secondly, what's the obsession these days with these 'sitting' midfielders that pass the ball around the back forever and - fair enough - never give the ball away? Surely when talking about great midfielders were talking about these number 10 types with 40 yard passes that fall right onto your foot? Xavi is a silky glorified workerbee in my opinion.

eZe^

Beyond ridiculous. Completely retarded statement.

Boskowski wrote: »

For starters. Ballack at his peak, YES.
Secondly, what's the obsession these days with these 'sitting' midfielders that pass the ball around the back forever and - fair enough - never give the ball away? Surely when talking about great midfielders were talking about these number 10 types with 40 yard passes that fall right onto your foot? Xavi is a silky glorified workerbee in my opinion.

50 direct assists in the past two seasons disagree with that statement. 2 CL titles, 4 league titles, a euro, and wc winners medal all while being arguably the most important player in those sides disagree to.

Ballack has and never will come close to being as good as Xavi. You're blind if you think Xavi only plays back passes. This debate shouldn't be here though, we should take it to the Barca thread.

Boskowski

Look were obviously not discussing the same thing. Are we discussing merits? Or ability and skill? Or game controlling?
Xavi is a great controller of the game (seemingly). But what other qualities does he have that makes him a 'great' midfielder? Does he actually ever shoot on goal for example?
I wonder how good he would look in a lesser team.
Ballack and Xavi are apples and oranges. What made Ballack a very very good AM say 5 years ago - hardly any of these qualities you will find in Xavi.

My point is probably that I find it difficult to award that type of player equal status with Zidane for example. I only brought Ballack up as a way of saying here is so many things that I never saw Xavi doing and even bloody Ballack was doing them so how can we compare Xavi with someone like Zidane?

tdv123

Boskowski wrote: »

Some of the opinions expressed here must be under the influence or so...

Xavi the best player in the world?
He's not even the best in his own club or international side.

If you want to be the best midfielder in the world you gotta have
- both feet practically equally good
- pace
- strong in the air
- deadly passer, and I don't mean dispatching it from left to right no end, I mean the deadly pass into space that creates big time scoring opportunities
- great freetaker plus all other set piece stuff
- scoring goals

Zidane had almost all of this. Even Ballack did. But Xavi?

Don't get me wrong, he's a great player at what he does but IMHO he's fairly one dimensional. I'd find Iniesta better tbh.

Oh, the OP question...: it's ridiculous alright. Not so much the question itself. But I'm not sure it warrants a forum thread tbh. Sounds a bit childish tbh. At the moment it's all Scholes hype for some strange reason. Let's wait and see what his stats are like at the end of the season.

Why is that? Is there a rule written down somewhere that stats this?

Thats a pretty ignorant statement to make tbh. It's like saying Rooney or Ronaldo is a better player than Messi because they posses more physical attributes. When it quite clear Messi is superior to both.

Same goes for Xavi when you compare to him any other midfielder in the world. It dosen't matter what physical attributes any other midfielders have, Xavi's footballing brain is so brilliant he'll always be one step ahead of everybody on the pitch.

It's no coincidence that he has been the heartbeat for the sides who have won 2 Champions Leagues, a World Cup & a European Championship in the space 4 years.

Boskowski

tdv123 wrote: »

Why is that? Is there a rule written down somewhere that stats this?

Like most things here it's opinion. My opinion in this case.
I'm not saying Xavi is kack or something. That would be just silly of course. He's does all these things you say he does. But there's an awful lot of things he doesn't do and that's why I wouldn't have him equal to the likes of Zidane.

tdv123

Boskowski wrote: »

For starters. Ballack at his peak, YES.
Secondly, what's the obsession these days with these 'sitting' midfielders that pass the ball around the back forever and - fair enough - never give the ball away? Surely when talking about great midfielders were talking about these number 10 types with 40 yard passes that fall right onto your foot? Xavi is a silky glorified workerbee in my opinion.

Haha. I'm starting to think you've never watched him play.

The obsession with them is they win you alot of matches.

He only passes back to the defence when theres no were to else to go. It's called clever play holding posession for your team. I see the Trappantoni art of lumping the ball aimlessly into the sky is start to have an effect on people.

Take a look at his game against Arsenal last season. Built up to be Xavi vs Fabregas (the person at the forefront of this thead) & watch how he dominates Arsenal's midfield.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sjmEfM1c88

Pretty much anything you could want from a midfielder is here. Strenght, skill, vision, multiple arrays of passing (including those 40 yard killer passes you said he dosent deliver), tackling & just overall intelligent play. And he's driving forward pretty much the whole time.

You probably just don't understand football well enough to really appreciate Xavi.

DOC09UNAM

Ridiculous and biased statement

tdv123 wrote: »

Haha. I'm starting to think you've never watched him play.

The obsession with them is they win you alot of matches.

He only passes back to the defence when theres no were to else to go. It's called clever play holding posession for your team. I see the Trappantoni art of lumping the ball aimlessly into the sky is start to have an effect on people.

Take a look at his game against Arsenal last season. Built up to be Xavi vs Fabregas (the person at the forefront of this thead) & watch how he dominates Arsenal's midfield.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sjmEfM1c88

Pretty much anything you could want from a midfielder is here. Strenght, skill, vision, multiple arrays of passing (including those 40 yard killer passes you said he dosent deliver), tackling & just overall intelligent play. And he's driving forward pretty much the whole time.

You probably just don't understand football well enough to really appreciate Xavi.

I think he's just picking Gerrard and Ballack because they scored alot of goals and made big runs through the defense every 8-9 games.

He probably doesn't realise that Xavi scores goals, and sets up more than either gerrard or ballack score.

Boskowski

So how exactly is your very last statement going to bring this discussion forward?

Other than that ye fairly impressive video although we all know how anyone can look great in a 3 minute videoclip. (But I'm not saying he wasn't excellent in that game)

but I won't change my mind as to whether he belongs into zidanes class or not. He doesn't.

Boskowski

I never liked Gerrard much and I never even mentioned him. I think I explained why I mentioned Ballack. I also didn't say that Ballack is better than Xavi. What I did say is that even Ballack does things that Xavi isn't capable of (before we get defensive again - there is a lot that Xavi does that Ballack couldn't do). And these things - in my opinion - you gotta do if you want to be one of the all time greats in midfield. And forvthe record I'm not saying Ballack is one of these all time greats, he is of course not.
Anyway. I was always a sucker for the flashy genius type of stuff while other people appreciate other footballing qualities.
Despite that glorious video Xavi is IMHO rather a midfield administrator than a midfield genius.

DOC09UNAM

Ridiculous and biased statement

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

LOL, are you saying Ballack is better than Xavi??

I hope your post was under the influence mate.

Boskowski wrote: »

For starters. Ballack at his peak, YES.

Boskowski wrote: »

I never liked Gerrard much and I never even mentioned him. I think I explained why I mentioned Ballack. I also didn't say that Ballack is better than Xavi. What I did say is that even Ballack does things that Xavi isn't capable of (before we get defensive again - there is a lot that Xavi does that Ballack couldn't do). And these things - in my opinion - you gotta do if you want to be one of the all time greats in midfield. And forvthe record I'm not saying Ballack is one of these all time greats, he is of course not.
Anyway. I was always a sucker for the flashy genius type of stuff while other people appreciate other footballing qualities.
Despite that glorious video Xavi is IMHO rather a midfield administrator than a midfield genius.

Ahem.


Xavi is full of flashy genius type stuff tbh.

And while you say anyone can look good in a 3 minute clip, not many can look good in a 3 minute clip, in the CL, in one match.

OT, I don't think it's a ridiculous statement, Scholes is miles ahead of fabregas at the moment, and probably will be until fab hits peak.

WesternZulu

oconnon9 wrote: »

at the this point in their careers:
in terms of quality - CL >>>>>> WC

Yea but id rather have a world cup medal in my pocket any day.

Ever since David May got a CL medal the competition has been devalued :pac:

kippy

d22ontour wrote: »

He was a squad player who got little to no playtime...

Really?
55 caps for Spain, 6 goals and the assist that won them the World cup.
He was in the squad alright but he was an integral part of it, and from an early age as well.
He is a really young player with a lot more to do and win in the game. He is a great passer and finisher however and has all the stats to rival scholes when both players are weighed up at the end of their careers.

flahavaj

eagle eye wrote: »

I presume people are talking English born player as regards Scholes and there is no doubt in my mind that Steven Gerrard has been the best English born midfielder over the last decade.

I think Scholes is a great, great player but Gerrard just was incredible.

Strongly disagree with this. Gerrard was (may still be - the jury is out) an amazing dynamic force from midfield. But Scholes stands alone in his ability to control a game, his pure footballing intelligence, his ability to know when, how and what do do from midfield. He is totally unique amongst English midfielders in this generation. There are many, including some pretty good managers that would say that Gerrard's best position isn't even in central midfield, so I take serious issue with him being the called the finest one of his generation tbh.

Mr Alan

am i the only one who thinks this Scholes can control a midfield like no one else thing which has sprung up over the last few weeks, is absolute bollox?! he certainly hasn't been unable to do that over the last 5 years-if anything he has always been on the periphery of games unable to match the tempo of them a lot, before that and when he was at his peek Keane was always alongside him, i would have had him down as the man controlling things more so than the little ginger fella? If anything i reckon the comparisons with gerrard are quite fitting as its moments of brilliance from them that win games without either being a typical dynamo

RasTa

Yes^

flahavaj

Mr Alan wrote: »

am i the only one who thinks this Scholes can control a midfield like no one else thing which has sprung up over the last few weeks, is absolute bollox?! he certainly hasn't been unable to do that over the last 3-4 years-if anything he has always been on the periphery of games unable to match the tempo of them a lot, before that and when he was at his peek Keane was always alongside him, i would have had him down as the man controlling things more so than the little ginger fella?

I would say he has more footballing intelligence and passing ability than any English player of his generation anyway, yes. Definitely having both him and Keane together was unbelieveable ad something we probably didn't appreciate while we had it. The fact that he can still do it at the age of 35 is just a bonus, but he's been doing it for years.

Do you think Gerrard was better as a midfielder? Honestly?

Mr Alan

no, i don't. but i also ain't buying into this Scholes wankfest which the media are shoving down our gullets either. and Flah, the whole, he can still do it at 35 thing is a bit**** too, granted he has had a good start to the season but last season, with the exception of the last few weeks, and the couple of seasons before that, he was average at best-and that's me being generous.

Third_Echelon

Ridiculous and biased statement

Boskowski wrote: »

Look were obviously not discussing the same thing. Are we discussing merits? Or ability and skill? Or game controlling?
Xavi is a great controller of the game (seemingly). But what other qualities does he have that makes him a 'great' midfielder? Does he actually ever shoot on goal for example?
I wonder how good he would look in a lesser team.
Ballack and Xavi are apples and oranges. What made Ballack a very very good AM say 5 years ago - hardly any of these qualities you will find in Xavi.

My point is probably that I find it difficult to award that type of player equal status with Zidane for example. I only brought Ballack up as a way of saying here is so many things that I never saw Xavi doing and even bloody Ballack was doing them so how can we compare Xavi with someone like Zidane?

LOL. I've read some amount of bluff and pub stool analysis on this forum over the years, but this has to be the funniest i've seen... it's up there!

You quite clearly have never watched Xavi play a game of football if you are asking these questions.....

Xavi is without doubt the best midfield player in the world at the moment. He would grace any team or any league with his influence...