.22lr Pistol on the "approved List"

bunny shooter

As per title

Anyone have or know where such exists

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

As per title

Anyone have or know where such exists

Thought you had got a buckmark bunny?

If you can't get one here (and I think most people who have one are keeping them) I suggest you have a look at the Frankonia website: www.frankonia.de

Lots of very good second hand ones and any dealer worth his salt will get one in for you.

rrpc

Haven't had a look at that site for a while, they have an absolutely gorgeous Hammerli SP20RRS reduced from €999 to €759. That's a genuine reduction, they've had it for a good while.

bunny shooter

rrpc wrote: »

Thought you had got a buckmark bunny?

If you can't get one here (and I think most people who have one are keeping them) I suggest you have a look at the Frankonia website: www.frankonia.de

Lots of very good second hand ones and any dealer worth his salt will get one in for you.

Not for me Doing a friend a favour :cool:

Tackleberrywho

The hamerelli is really well balanced, I'd love one as part of my bag of tricks

Maybe Santa might bring me one.

rrpc

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

The hamerelli is really well balanced, I'd love one as part of my bag of tricks

Maybe Santa might bring me one.

Have you actually tried an SP20? I haven't seen one in this country or even heard of one. Where did you see it?

Tackleberrywho

rrpc wrote: »

Have you actually tried an SP20? I haven't seen one in this country or even heard of one. Where did you see it?

Sorry, I should of clarified, it was not an SP20
Although, I still would fancy one

It was similar to this in an RFDs about a year ago

It wasn't me!

That's an Xesse, and a good pistol, but not intended to be able to compete with the SP20, nor is it as purpose-designed.

rrpc

It wasn't me! wrote: »

That's an Xesse, and a good pistol, but not intended to be able to compete with the SP20, nor is it as purpose-designed.

Had a feeling it might have been an X-Esse, but you never know till you ask .

Probably the best .22 pistol in its class but may well be phased out now that the Walther SP22 has come on the market. Not seen one of those yet, so I can't comment on it but the Hammerli SP20 RRS is supposed to be a very good machine with really nice recoil characteristics.

There was a Spanish chap joined us for a year had one, but his timing was bad because he was looking for a license to bring his pistols over from Spain just at the time the Minister was making his little speches and he never got them in.

Otherwise I'd probably have got to try one

Sorry bunny, we seem to have hijacked your thread , but in mitigation we have discussed some of the options available to your friend. Another very good pistol that Frankonia seem to have a couple of is the Walther GSP. Quite a few of those around and a really solid piece of work which seem to eat any kind of ammo you throw at them. Can be got from between €300 to €600 second hand.

Sparks

One of the WTSC lads has an SP-22 rrpc. Lovely pistol, wonderfully low sight line.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

One of the WTSC lads has an SP-22 rrpc. Lovely pistol, wonderfully low sight line.

Are you sure it's the SP22 and not the SSP?

Sparks

Ah, you're right, I'm thinking of the SSP:



Really is a wonderful bit of engineering, that.

It wasn't me!

rrpc wrote: »

Sorry bunny, we seem to have hijacked your thread , but in mitigation we have discussed some of the options available to your friend. Another very good pistol that Frankonia seem to have a couple of is the Walther GSP. Quite a few of those around and a really solid piece of work which seem to eat any kind of ammo you throw at them. Can be got from between €300 to €600 second hand.

I have to say, I was playing around with a GSP in the Walther tent at the World Championships, and it felt really, really nice to me. Came up, sat right and pointed, for me, slightly better than the SSP. Now, you know yourself, I'm no pistol shooter, but it's a very reasssuringly solid machine, and very accurate. I saw .32 versions sold on eGun before with test groups of about 11mm at 25m. That's the other nice thing. If sanity ever prevails here again, the GSP can be used with either a .22LR barrel and slide assembly or a .32 S&W Long one, for smallbore and centrefire pistol events.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Ah, you're right, I'm thinking of the SSP:

Really is a wonderful bit of engineering, that.

Thought so, I've yet to hear of an SP22 in this country. I've tried the SSP and it's the closest thing to totally recoilless I've ever shot. I'm told the Hammerli SP20 RRS (the RRS stands for Reduced Recoil System) is very similar in feel so the one in Frankonia would be a very cheap alternative to the SSP; which new is over twice the price :eek:

rrpc

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I have to say, I was playing around with a GSP in the Walther tent at the World Championships, and it felt really, really nice to me. Came up, sat right and pointed, for me, slightly better than the SSP. Now, you know yourself, I'm no pistol shooter, but it's a very reasssuringly solid machine, and very accurate. I saw .32 versions sold on eGun before with test groups of about 11mm at 25m. That's the other nice thing. If sanity ever prevails here again, the GSP can be used with either a .22LR barrel and slide assembly or a .32 S&W Long one, for smallbore and centrefire pistol events.

The cost of the conversion kit though, puts it firmly in the 'buy another pistol' choice bracket. The rifle conversion is also in the 'bullpup' restricted category, the same as the buckmark rifle.

Some people don't like the heavy muzzle of the GSP and others love it, so it's really a case of trying before you buy.

Which really is the paramount consideration with pistols.

FOXHUNTER1

A friend of mine has a buckmark for sale if your interested.

Bananaman

clarification in case anyone gets the wrong idea

The browning buckmark .22 rifle IS NOT a restricted rifle

B'Man

rrpc

Bananaman wrote: »

clarification in case anyone gets the wrong idea

The browning buckmark .22 rifle IS NOT a restricted rifle

B'Man

Under the strict letter of the law, it is B'man.

“bullpup rifles” means rifles with a magazine located behind the trigger;

Perhaps some Supers are licensing it as unrestricted but as you can see from the SI it 'qualifies' as a bullpup. OTOH, I was wrong about the Walther as the mag is in front of the trigger.

bunny shooter

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

A friend of mine has a buckmark for sale if your interested.

Replied to you by PM

Thanks lads all this info is relevant in case I decide to upgrade :cool:

FOXHUNTER1

bunny shooter wrote: »

Replied to you by PM

Thanks lads all this info is relevant in case I decide to upgrade :cool:

I've emailed those photo's bunny as requested.

Bananaman

Foxhunter - if bunny not interested let me know the details as I am in the market

bunny shooter

I'll find out as soon as poss if other party is interested and let ye know. He might want to see it before he decides and he's out of the country on hols for approx 10 days............................

I think he's going to take it alright

FOXHUNTER1

No problem I'll hold on till I hear from you.

bunny shooter

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

No problem I'll hold on till I hear from you.

I appreciate that

bunny shooter

In case anyone is interested my other party has pulled out so this Buckmark is available I reckon.

newby.204

a friend of mine just got a licence for a sig mosquito .22, all you have to do to meet the criteria is barrel length and magazine capacity, it doesnt necessarily have to be an olympic .22

rrpc

newby.204 wrote: »

a friend of mine just got a licence for a sig mosquito .22, all you have to do to meet the criteria is barrel length and magazine capacity, it doesnt necessarily have to be an olympic .22

Strictly speaking, it doesn't have to be on the list as the list isn't law in any shape or form.

It also doesn't have to be a non-restricted license if he held it before November 2008, in which case all of the above is irrelevant (list, olympic, mag capacity, barrel length etc.).

Bananaman

And strictly speaking there is no such thing as an 'Olympic' pistol anyway

there are limitations on what can be used in Olympic events but those can be applied to most .22 pistols and unless you plan to take part in the Olympics it's a bit academic anyway

some ISSF events are also Olympic events so the same restrictions apply but as I said most pistols will qualify (many opinions on here as to what is competitive but personally I think it is down to the competitors rather than the firearms)

as many have said before the 'list' is only a guideline and where you live will be the determining factor in how the law is applied

B'Man

Sparks

To be fair B'man, if a pistol is designed for an Olympic event, it's a bit silly to say it's not an Olympic pistol. Which means that air pistols like the IZH-46, the LP-2, and others; and smallbore pistols like the SSP, the IZH-34, Toz-35 and others; are Olympic pistols.

That being said, the point that the list is only a guideline with no force in law is an important one to be kept in mind.

Mr.Flibble

Sparks wrote: »

no force in law

Ah, but is it law in the force?

And would that be more important?

Sparks

It's not meant to be; and the Firearms Policy Unit is supposed to ensure that that's the case. There are some districts that haven't read that memo, however, but the law itself is clear even if you have to get a DC judge to read it out to people so everyone knows what it is...

Bananaman

It's the labels that annoy me - that's why the 'olympic' thing gets my goat

I can compete for, and if I am good enough, win an Olympic gold with a Colt Woodsman - it's a sport - it's not an equipment convention

the term 'Olympic' in relation to the shooting sports - more so with pistol shooting - has become a dirty word in Ireland- a byword for restriction and denial - as opposed to what it should be - a goal - perhaps beyond reach for most of us, but a goal nonetheless - 1/1000 might progress from shooting club matches to actually heading for the Olympics and hopefully they do - but for everyones else it is just 'shooting'

Used to be a time when someone spoke about Olympic Pistol and the conversation would turn to who had shot it, how they did, was it interesting or not, would they do it again - but nowadays, it is only mentioned in relation to it's misuse as a form of licensing restriction or used as a stick to beat people with - the real tragedy in that, I suppose, is that we let it happen with petty divisions and backstabbing and nit picking

it's an awful pity that, what is for many, the pinnacle of their chosen sport has been hijacked and is being used as a political hand grenade to lob when a bit of 'crowd suppression' is required

hopefully, one day it will be seen as it should again, simply one of many sports, that people can choose to compete in once they are safe and follow the rules, alongside any other sports they choose

here endeth the rant - no more labels - call them all 'guns' or 'firearms' and call it all 'shooting' - let people decide what they want to do rather than trying to shoehorn them into something

B'Man

rrpc

The use of the word 'olympic'; certainly in my case, is a reference to section 4(2)(e) of SI 21/2008 and SI 337/2009.

As a legal definition, it's not one that has been tested yet, so until that happens it's a moot point as to what it means.

All of the criteria I alluded to in my post are ones that are used in the firearms acts and associated Ministerial orders. It just makes it easier for people to find the relevant sections or subsections in the law.

In much the same way that I refer to 'sliencers' when discussing firearms certificate applications for them. We've all seen the confusion over 'sights' on the FCA1 form.

Bananaman

Quad est demonstratum

rrpc

Bananaman wrote: »

Quad est demonstratum

Quod erat demonstrandum

No point in getting your knickers in a twist about terminology or words used in the firearms acts. They are what they are, and were you to follow that road, you'd soon end up in a home for the bewildered .

If people use this stuff to create divisions, well that says more about them than anyone else.

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

the term 'Olympic' in relation to the shooting sports - more so with pistol shooting - has become a dirty word in Ireland- a byword for restriction and denial - as opposed to what it should be - a goal - perhaps beyond reach for most of us, but a goal nonetheless ...

...the real tragedy in that, I suppose, is that we let it happen with petty divisions and backstabbing and nit picking

it's an awful pity that, what is for many, the pinnacle of their chosen sport has been hijacked and is being used as a political hand grenade to lob when a bit of 'crowd suppression' is required

The thing that gets my goat B'man, and probably the goats of more than a few of those of us who started shooting Olympic ISSF and nonOlympic NTSA/NSRA disciplines, is that that whole tarnishing of the Olympic name wasn't done by the Powers That Be. It was done by a few malcontent shooters who pulled a few fast ones that didn't work out because of utter incompetence and naiveté; and who then tried to avoid taking the blame for the fallout by picking the then-smallest group in target shooting and painting them as elitist snobs who'd "sold out" everyone else, when exactly the opposite was the case.

When you can point to things like the two exact moments that Sports Council funding for target shooting was kicked in the head (once for rifle/pistol, once for shotgun); or the moment that centrefire pistol was lost for another few years because of one thing said by one person at the worst possible moment in the worst possible place to the worst possible audience; and when you know that those things were not brought about by Olympic shooters, but that Olympic shooters were later blamed by everyone for them because that was politically easy to sell to everyone since it's far easier to throw muck than to fix problems; then your goat is well and truly got.

And, like you, I hope that one day, all that will fall by the wayside and we'll get (for the first time) to a place where if someone screws the pooch, they're the one who takes the fall, instead of being allowed to throw another group under the bus in their stead.

bunny shooter

Go on spill the beans .............................

Bananaman

In all that is holy - please don't

It bores the face off me - so much of my life has already been wasted wading through all the 'we'll not accept this treaty' bullsh1t

I don't care who said what, when, or who fecked who over where or what they were wearing at the time.

I'll take it as read that everyone that was in shooting in the 'beforetimes' hate each other - await the day they can piss on each others graves - and just leave it at that.

It all happened before I even came along and I don't give a toss.

B'Man

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

It all happened before I even came along and I don't give a toss.

Grief, you don't think we do, do you?
FFS, I stood ten years of having that crap shoved in my face before stepping back to let someone else take a turn while I tried to just go shooting again.
Some of this stuff just is not ignorable - and if you think it is, you're wrong, the end result of some of this stuff has included:

• nine-page licence forms giving away your medical confidentiality, right to privacy and a few other fun things;
• some sports being effectively banned by law;
• other sports having to fork over two grand to keep their club and range running in admin fees alone, to say nothing of the tens of thousands in construction costs to come up to code;
• clubs and ranges being closed down (at least two I can think of in the past four or five years);
• shooters at the highest levels in all our sports having to spend enormous amounts of money to represent our country internationally because of a lack of real funding from the ISC and a set of insane and non-inclusive standards for qualifying for funding;
• most sports suffering from serious manpower shortages because the 2% who do all the work are having to spend all their time chasing legislation for the past decade in an effort to minimise the amount of crap the rest of us have to live with;

That list could go on and on.
Point is B'man, this ****e isn't something people went looking for; it's ****e that less than a dozen people have thrown at all the rest of us over the last 10-12 years, and some of the stuff from over a decade ago is still causing problems today.

bunny shooter

Go on, go on, go on ,go on, spill the beans..............ya know ya wanna

Maybe you should go to Joe Costello's "Truth & Reconcillation" get together