Should RFL cut losses on expansion?

Dozen Wicked Words

Should the RFL be propping up failing clubs outside "the Heartland" of RL, or is it time to accept teams demise and to some extent the demise of expansion.

My 2ps worth, The Harlequins have asked for a lifeline from the RFL, I think the time has come to see if there are any other viable options south of the Watford Gap to continue the idea of expansion of RL.

It is clear there is not enough appetite in London, but that doesn't encompass the whole of southern England, and while having a team in the Capital is the RFLs preference, surely a team playing somewhere else in the south which actually gets the odd supporter through the turnstiles, that could make a profit and be sustainable would be better. By the by, its actually been the first year BBC London has shown some support for the idea of RL in the Capital.

3rd September is D-Day.

BBC News story

From BBC Website.

Harlequins have asked the Rugby Football League to help ensure the club's future, BBC London understands.

Chairman David Hughes has been financing the club, which has been losing £1.5m a year, despite only owning 35% of the franchise.

Wigan chairman Ian Lenegan holds the majority stake, despite a two-year deadline to sell expiring in 2009.

An announcement about future is expected before their final league game with Warrington on 3 September.

"It seems discussions with the RFL have been, on the whole, positive," said BBC London 94.9's rugby league reporter Ian Ramsdale.

"But no resolution has yet been agreed and there is still a possibility, albeit very small, that the club will not exist next season.

"I understand the club have been talking to the governing body for some time now, about overcoming some of the costs and difficulties of developing the game in the south.

606: DEBATE
For me it would be a shame to see the development work in London lost.

richirama

"It does appear that a threat to the club's future has pretty much been resolved, as I believe season tickets for next season will go on sale at some point this week."

Harlequins are searching for a new coach, after Brian McDermott announced he is leaving at the end of the season to become assistant coach at Leeds, and this has added to the uncertainty for fans and players alike.

With one game remaining, Quins are heading for their lowest finish in the Super League since changing their name from London Broncos in 2005.

couerdelion

The issue regarding propping any club up, be they within the heartlands or not, is whether assisting the club in the short term leads to a long term viable entity or if there are significant advantages to supporting a loss making venture.

For too many years RL in the UK has been though of as a northern sport for flat capped miners to play. It's the working class sport to RU's middle class. It's ignored in the main by the London based media and is completely over shadowed by RU. The only way to combat this is to try and take on RU at their own game.

By having a London club and a Welsh club it's no longer just a northern game. By including French teams we also have an international club competition and this in turn will help the French national team through an increase in their available playing pool. This will increase the international competitions too.

In summary No, the RFL needs to continue its expansion plans.

toomevara

Got to keep expanding, its difficult and uncertain particularly in such a crowded sporting landscape and in a time of recession but RL has got to back itself. the product is brilliant, its just getting the message across. I've watched alot of rugby over the last 3 weeks, both codes and what never ceases to astonish me is how vastly superior RL is....

WakeyTyke

Expansion should only occur if a team can show that they are a financially viable proposition.

It is not the RFL role to bale out clubs who are unable to balance the books, wherever they are based.

Time and time again over many years RL has parachuted into areas and left with it's tail between it's legs and egg on it's face. The Crusaders will soon be yet another prime example of this.

The expansion has to come from the grassroots, growing the supporter base that will support a professional club that has developed and progressed through the lower divisions of the National League.

A Superleague team that attracts lower crowds than a non-league soccer club does absolutely nothing for the credibility and development of the sport of RL.

couerdelion

WakeyTyke wrote: »

Expansion should only occur if a team can show that they are a financially viable proposition.

The expansion has to come from the grassroots, growing the supporter base that will support a professional club that has developed and progressed through the lower divisions of the National League.

Just going to pick up on these two points....

If a Super League franchise was given to an Irish Club it would have a massive impact on the number of amateurs playing the game. Do I feel that RLI will grow to large enough numbers to sustain a professional RL team without RFL suipport? No.

Sometimes the chicken needs to come before the egg.

toomevara

couerdelion wrote: »

If a Super League franchise was given to an Irish Club it would have a massive impact on the number of amateurs playing the game. Do I feel that RLI will grow to large enough numbers to sustain a professional RL team without RFL suipport? No.

No question and tbh, you wouldn't even need a super league franchise a championship berth would be fantastic for the game..just look at how it's helped the game in Toulouse....Would give fans of the game something solid and regular to get behind in Ireland and also allow expats like myself to support over here on away days....

toomevara

Looks like Quins are safe thankfully, a least 'til 2014....good news for the game all round.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/london/8968988.stm

Dozen Wicked Words

David Hughes is some man, although I am delighted, relying on one man to spend one and a half million of his own money every year is not sustainable. Apparently Quins didn't ask for financial support so not sure what support they did ask for.

Another season next year, with a new coach, back to being optimistic until the season gets under way! Still fancy the Milton Keynes idea though!!

WakeyTyke

Genuinely pleased that Quins are able to continue in SuperLeague, standing on their own two feet.

I have no problem with the RFL exempting the Quins from having to fulfill all the criteria for a franchise, in order to develop the game in London and the south of England, as long as they are self-financing.

In the interest of fairness and equity I have a serious problem with the RFL having to financially prop-up any team.

toomevara

Agree with you Wakey, establishing the game in London is definitely worth going the extra mile, I worry though..the fact is attendances aren't good enough despite the best efforts of all involved..The bottom line is; how are Quins going to get bums on seats?? The club will gave to attract more fans and better sponsorship or it'll have to be given the shepherd's crook....bottom line.

couerdelion

toomevara wrote: »

Agree with you Wakey, establishing the game in London is definitely worth going the extra mile, I worry though..the fact is attendances aren't good enough despite the best efforts of all involved..The bottom line is; how are Quins going to get bums on seats?? The club will gave to attract more fans and better sponsorship or it'll have to be given the shepherd's crook....bottom line.

Maybe the League need to address this issue first.
From all accounts schools rugby is going great guns down there so we need to get those kids attending matches. Why not offer them free tickets (they'll bring paying adults) or special family season tickets at such a price that they can't be turned down (~£50 father and son deals for all school kid players) but let them know how muh it should be costing. Lets fill the stadium for a couple of years before we start looking to turn a profit. Once people are hooked on League they'll come back for more even if it's more expensive. It's more addictive than crack!

toomevara

Saw hughes interviewed on the Beeb last night. He's asked the RFL, not for financial support, but for more pro-active help in promoting the game in Blighty. Apparently he's received assurances on this front. Think he's definitely got a point, also interestingly re-iterated that Quins have fielded teams composed largely of English players of late and that their academy system is doing great work.

It seems to me, now that hughes will have the lions share of ownership. things may start to happen for Quins. crazily, he had a 35% shareholding in the club but was contributing virtually 100% of the finance...how does that work??

AdeT

toomevara wrote: »

he had a 35% shareholding in the club but was contributing virtually 100% of the finance...how does that work??

That's the bit I never understood!

The RFL do seem keen to develop the sport down there and there are plenty of development coaches supporting the grass roots game. Hopefully by keeping up that side of things, allied with marketing and profile support, the club will move towards being self-sustainable.

toomevara

AdeT wrote: »

The RFL do seem keen to develop the sport down there and there are plenty of development coaches supporting the grass roots game. Hopefully by keeping up that side of things, allied with marketing and profile support, the club will move towards being self-sustainable.

They do and they don't (the RFL), while I absolutely love the sport of rugby League, I often find the folk involved in it to be incredibly parochial and short sighted. This parochialism can be both a strength and a weakness and in the case of the development of the game in London its definitely the latter. There are many people in the M-62 corridor who wouldn't shed a tear if the Quins, the Crusaders and Catalans for that matter sank without trace. Though they make the right noises, they'd prefer to keep the game an exclusively northern/heartland thing.

I can't understand this attitude and everytime I encounter it I despair. For me, if RL cant crack London, given the huge work and commitment put in by the Quins, we may as well forget about it and give up any pretensions to becoming a truly national/global sport. If on the other hand a serious RL club can get established and start attaining success the sky's the limit for the game here...