Have you ever being affected by suicide?

Novella

grindelwald wrote: »

:mad:How dare you judge me.....

I always stated I not everyone. (because i know im unique, very unique)

I knew that girl, taking half a box of 12 period pain tablets does not come close to taking 64 solpadeine tablets. She wanted pity....... And im not going to spell it out for you. I put her at the back of my mind years ago and now you throw it in my face saying i didnt know her, i knew her too well:mad:.

I dont judge anyone else just the person i knew.

I have a great empathy for most people who are suicidal.... cant say all but will say most.

I need to go take a break my blood is boiling......

Tbh, what you are saying is actually pretty offensive. You are obviously clouded in judgement by your clear dislike for this girl. This thread isn't just about you, and it is not your place to deem a persons suicide attempt as valid or not, nor is it okay for you to make light of how anyone was/is feeling.

Taking anything over the recommended dose of medication is classed as an overdose, afaik. Even if she did simply want pity, doing what she did is a very misguided attempt at getting such and does speak volumes about her own mental stability.

I sympathise with you on all that you have been through, but the way in which you are posting is belittling to others and gives the impression that you are somehow better by enduring more suffering etc. Some people don't deal as well as others in the face of pain and it is vital to remember that. You've moved on, that's what matters now.

Isle

When I was 17 one of my best friend's committed suicide. She was 17 also. She was raped over a month before she killed herself. She found out she was pregnant with her rapist's baby and that drove her over the edge. Her 13 year old sister found her body. She left a note for her older brother telling him she was going to do it but he was at work and didn't find the note until it was too late. The anniversary of her death is coming around again soon.

Handsome Bob

grindelwald wrote: »

Too many it might seem they are mentally gone but it could be that's they themselves might feel its their only escape.....
to ease the burden on everyone else.......
to end their pain mental/physical from bullying/medical........

There are many reasons for suicide it could be a rational choice.... e.g. they are dying from cancer and want to end it before the pain gets worse....

I personally think suicide has many different brackets so i cant paint them with the same brush......

You know what I mean though, I'm not talking about people dying from terminal illness.

mikemac

"Pull yourself together, you have little to complain about"

That's what many people in Ireland will tell you if you ask for help.
Is it any wonder that people bottle things up and try to cope?

As said, more people die from suicide every year then traffic accidents but one has a high profile agency like the RSA and the other is a mismash of the HSE and private agencies and volunteers.
I don't know the solution but it certainly can be improved for sure

kandsfarrell

I have been affected by a close family member, extended family member and a friend. The only thing common with these people was that they where male. There circumstances where all very different. There are many different types of mental illness that can all lead to this end if not treated.....however the person or patient dosn't realise that there is a problem with their mind in the first place.

jessiejam wrote: »

Some of those RTA's may be suicides too, who knows.

This is a very interesting point and something that has crossed my mind in the past

jessiejam wrote: »

It all boils down to making kids at a young age understand that its ok for the brain to be sick as well as the body.

I agree with this

LZ5by5 wrote: »

in the moment that they decide to take their own life, they are mentally gone. They have lost the ability to think reasonably

Absolutely, all rational thinking is gone for sure. You can't apply logic thinking to this issue.

There are many many things that need to be taken into consideration

mejane

Unfortunately I lost a close friend to suicide.

The main legacy for me apart from missing her dreadfully & the sense of loss for all that she is missing, is the awful guilt it leaves you with.

Not a day goes by that I dont wish I had "done something". What ,I dont know, but it drives me crazy thinking "what if". It is utterly heartbreaking & has changed me in some ways. I worry so much more about the people close to me but in an irrational way. I went through a period of panic attacks after the death, which I never experienced before. I made my life & the life of everyone around me hell. All through feeling this awful guilt & sorrow & not knowing how to deal with it. And all because I felt I should have picked up the phone.

I agree that the treatment for mental health (or lack of) is a disgrace. I have often thought it shocking that more people die every year in Ireland from suicide than on the roads yet the issue is completely ignored.

El Horseboxo

I have had 3 close friends over the years hang themselves. And found out a few people i went to school with commit suicide also. All of them were apparently over a girl. Strange i see this thread today. It's the anniversary of my best friend since i was a kid.

Daemos

A few years ago two young lads around my age who I knew but were in different social groups to, commited suicide within a few weeks of each other. One of them did so shortly before the school year started and I was going to be joining his class, so if going into a new class wasn't stressful enough there was bereavement councelling on the first day as well.

foxyboxer

I can only imagine the pain and torture if someone close to me committed suicide. Life would never be the same. I can imagine that you'd never be able to find beauty in the world again.

That's why the Shawshank Redemption is a favourite movie of a lot of people.

When Brook's commits suicide it's because his coping mechanism is non existant and because of his institutionalised state of mind, he take's his own life.
Red is also on the same path but due to his friendship with Andy, he has a reason to live. It's a powerful message indeed. Get busy livin.

Stevecw

Yep, a really good friend of mine from college who even after we finished college, 4 of us always meet up about once a month either in Dublin where 3 of us were living at the time or in Carlow where we went to college.
But we'd met him on the Sunday before he died for a game of golf on par 3 in Carlow, and we all had work next day so went for food and we all went home early. Said we'd meet up again in a couple of weeks.

The next Friday evening I got a call from his brother saying he had shot himself in their front garden..and the sister found him. I was in bits, and the funeral etc was so so tough. But the poor parents and esp the sister, she had to quit her job and has never been the same since.

Its just the worst thing ever. Miss him of course, but such a selfish thing to do and he ruined his families lives by doing that. I dunno, to this day I just can't understand it.

MultiUmm

KyussBishop wrote: »

Yes agreed, we must have one of the worst mental health services in the western world; if people are having serious problems with mental health, they're (imo) better off looking for a private mental health practice, rather than visiting their GP.

Have heard a lot of stories about people being referred on to entirely useless counsellors/psychiatrists through their GP (one of which advocated treatment through god/christianity), being discouraged as result, and not bothering with any others again thereafter; which is a real shame, as people who need help can get it if they keep looking and/or go private.

This country has a very long way to go with regards to improving awareness of mental illness, and with mental health services; I think any significant improvements in the latter may take a decade or more.

I honestly think that GP's are unsure how to help a patient suffering from mental health problems. They either send them on their way to a shoddy half-qualified "counsellor" thus freeing them of the responsibility of looking after the patient, or like in my case they have a 10 minute chat with you and prescribe anti-depressants/ anti-anxiety medication to numb every emotion you feel and turn you into a walking zombie rather than trying to get to the root of the problem.

I don't think they're entirely to blame though. If someone comes in telling them they're severely depressed and contemplating suicide, of course it's the doctors responsibility to help them, but what can they do with practically no services in place? So they prescribe them tablets and tell them to see a counsellor. Job done.

As for state run mental institutions, well, I don't know what they're like because I've never been in one (thankfully) but I imagine they're far from ideal places to recover in. There was a prime time special done about them a couple of months ago, and the conditions in them were appalling.
Places that have existed since Victorian times, falling down and ugly grim looking buildings where people with mental health issues were/ are shut off and hidden so we don't have to look at them. Maybe because we don't want to face up to the fact mental health problems affect so many people in Ireland.

All I can say is it really shows what society thinks of people suffering from mental health problems when we still send them to Victorian institutions to get well and sedate them with drugs, while very little actual counselling takes place.

rainbow kirby

About four and a half years ago, a neighbour of mine committed suicide - but not before killing her 3 children first. One of these children was a very close friend of my sister. There are a lot of people around here who were deeply affected by this, nobody even guessed that there was any sort of problem going on.

ShadowGal

we have very little control over other peoples behavior, this is something that everyone should remember especially those affected by suicide. one of the toughest things is not knowing why.what i do know is that if someone is determined to do it they will.

Try not to judge them, i dont think anyone comes to the decision lightly. everyone just has to gather together and look after each other if it happens.thats what we did

Terry

Dudess wrote: »

In my opinion, calling it selfish is selfish in and of itself as it displays such a lack of understanding and thought and empathy in relation to the pain the person was going through - it doesn't take their feelings/experiences into consideration.

Novella wrote: »

I have never known anyone who has committed suicide, but have I been affected by it? Yes. Tbph, I've attempted it. Do I think suicide is selfish? No, I don't.

I do think it's selfish in some cases, and I'll explain below.

jessiejam wrote: »

I've known a few, not close friends. Horrible aftermath.

I feel its more a selfless act than anything.

These poor souls feel they are a burden on others and want to take that burden away. How is that selfish?

If you think about it, it takes some serious balls to do it.

I'm not saying its a good thing or anything of the sort, but people who are driven, for what ever reason to take there own lives, only want to stop the pain.

First off, I'd say that it actually takes balls to not commit suicide when you're really low. This is just from personal experience though. As is the following.

The three of you have all said that suicide is not selfish. I'd argue that it can be in certain circumstances. I know that my own attempts were motivated purely through selfishness. Probably the second one more than the first, but that's neither here nor there because neither attempt took.

The point is that none of us can ever know what is going through the mind of a suicidal person. Sometimes it may be selfish, but other times it's not. None of us can judge apart from our own experiences.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It's not selfish, just misguided, and a clear sign of mental instability. No offence intended to anyone.

None taken, but I think you may need to look into it a bit more, as evidenced below.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It's not about having the balls though. You "not having the balls" to do it is a clear sign that you are, in all likeliness, mentally healthy. Whereas the other sign of the coin would be a clear indication that someone is in a very, very bad place mentally.

There are different ranges of depression, and not all of them cause people to be suicidal. I suffered from it for many years before seriously contemplating suicide.

Ahh, **** it. I have me lodger here making me answer questions on University challenge and I can only concentrate on one thing at a time.

ShadowGal

Terry wrote: »

I do think it's selfish in some cases, and I'll explain below.



First off, I'd say that it actually takes balls to not commit suicide when you're really low. This is just from personal experience though. As is the following.

The three of you have all said that suicide is not selfish. I'd argue that it can be in certain circumstances. I know that my own attempts were motivated purely through selfishness. Probably the second one more than the first, but that's neither here nor there because neither attempt took.

The point is that none of us can ever know what is going through the mind of a suicidal person. Sometimes it may be selfish, but other times it's not. None of us can judge apart from our own experiences.



None taken, but I think you may need to look into it a bit more, as evidenced below.




There are different ranges of depression, and not all of them cause people to be suicidal. I suffered from it for many years before seriously contemplating suicide.

Ahh, **** it. I have me lodger here making me answer questions on University challenge and I can only concentrate on one thing at a time.

hi Terry, not having a go but i just read that you suffered from depression for many years and have attempted suicide but you say it was for selfish reasons

it sounds like you were maybe a little mentally unstable at the time so im not sure i would even deem this as being selfish as you werent in your right mind?

or im just reading it wrong, and if i am, apologies

epgc3fyqirnbsx

I think that subjectively it is seldom selfish, the person rarely feels that the have an option or that they can go on.

But from an objective viewpoint it can be seen as selfish, ie the mess and the hurt that they leave behind.

I'm unsure whether such conversations have any merit though...

storm2811

Just going to say something about the whole selfish thing.
I tried it once, a lot of stuff had happened and I felt totally alone and lost.
Afterwards though when I felt better about myself and everything was going well again I became a lot closer to my mam.
I've seen how vunerable she is since my father died and whenever the thought of taking my own life popped into my head again I just thought about how it would affect her.
I think it would be selfish to take my life because in a way it would be taking a big part of her life too.

Novella

Terry wrote: »

I do think it's selfish in some cases, and I'll explain below.



First off, I'd say that it actually takes balls to not commit suicide when you're really low. This is just from personal experience though. As is the following.

The three of you have all said that suicide is not selfish. I'd argue that it can be in certain circumstances. I know that my own attempts were motivated purely through selfishness. Probably the second one more than the first, but that's neither here nor there because neither attempt took.

The point is that none of us can ever know what is going through the mind of a suicidal person. Sometimes it may be selfish, but other times it's not. None of us can judge apart from our own experiences.



None taken, but I think you may need to look into it a bit more, as evidenced below.




There are different ranges of depression, and not all of them cause people to be suicidal. I suffered from it for many years before seriously contemplating suicide.

Ahh, **** it. I have me lodger here making me answer questions on University challenge and I can only concentrate on one thing at a time.

I actually do see where you are coming from. Would it have been selfish of me to commit suicide? In hindsight, of course it would. I have a great family and some amazing friends and I'm sure it would have been devastating for them had I not survived. I was in a place where I wasn't bothered living anymore, and did I stop to think about the effects that would have on anyone else? No, not even for a second. I was so wrapped up in myself, and in being depressed that it was bloody impossible to imagine that anyone would care.

All I thought about was myself, and how I couldn't deal with anything anymore. So, is that selfish? Sure. What isn't selfish is the wanting to escape. That's not selfish at all. Suicide is obviously misguided, but as I'm sure you know yourself, Terry, when you think it's all you have, you don't really consider much else.

But I do know what you're saying!

Terry

ShadowGal wrote: »

hi Terry, not having a go but i just read that you suffered from depression for many years and have attempted suicide but you say it was for selfish reasons

it sounds like you were maybe a little mentally unstable at the time so im not sure i would even deem this as being selfish as you werent in your right mind?

or im just reading it wrong, and if i am, apologies

No apology needed. I didn't word my post all too well, so anyone can be forgiven for misinterpreting it.
I was mentally unstable. Both attempts happened over the course of about 18 hours. The first one was because I felt sorry for myself (read: really depressed). The second was because I had done something which made me feel bad about something I had done to my friends, and I didn't want to face them after the first attempt.
It felt like the right thing to do at the time, but looking back I can see how selfish I was.

Story here: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055054940
It's something I have tried to put behind me these days because it was not the best time of my life.

I will say one thing though. I thought my friends would laugh at me and mock me. As soon as I opened up to them, they listened to what I had to say and were very respectful of my situation.

It was this respect which prompted me to tell people my story. I can only hope that it inspires at least one person to go and seek help. If it does, then it was worth exposing myself to people in a country that mostly dismisses mental health issues, or looks at those suffering as people who should be locked up in an asylum.

One thing that I have found when it comes to mental health is that, like any other illness, the sooner it's diagnosed the better. The longer you leave it, the more it preys on your mind and the worse you get.

If anyone is reading this and feels depressed, then go and see your GP. Explain every single thing you are feeling. Write it all down and bring it to your doctor. Ask to be referred to a specialist.

If you don't feel comfortable telling people about your condition, then don't tell them. Just don't feel guilty about how you feel. It's not your fault.
Take small steps in dealing with it, and remember that it won't go away overnight. Just be patient and think positively. Seeing your GP is the first step towards a cure.

I mentioned earlier about some dick being my boards nemesis in another thread. This dick actually tried to use my condition against me at one point. He had read the thread I linked to above, and inferred that a mentalist had banned him.
At that point, I was in a much better place and was able to laugh at the pathetic dick that he is. My point is that there will always be someone who tries to bring you down. Those people are to be avoided at all costs. They are only out for themselves and don't care about anyone else. Their only purpose in life is to drag others down to make themselves feel better.
We all know someone like this. The best thing to do is to aim to be in a place where you can laugh at these dicks and their pathetic existence. It doesn't take much to get yourself from being suicidal to a place where you can laugh at these dicks. Christ, I'm laughing at that dick right now. If you were a mod and could see his history on this site, you would see that he is despised. He gained 5 or 6 permanent forum bans after the one I gave him from AH. Such a sad little boy.

Anyone down on their luck is bound to have some dick like this in their life. Just remove that person by not having any contact with them. Your life will be so much better.

I know it's not that easy, but you can do it if you set your mind to it. After that, you will find getting better so much easier.
Just don't leave it for too long.
Go and talk about it. **** the begrudgers.
The first person to laugh at me when I had my first panic attack ended up having them himself. Dude's my best friend, so I had long since forgiven him. There was a small part of me that was happy that he felt what I felt, but then I just helped him as best as I could. He's still apologising for not taking me seriously for so long.

Anyway, I hope that ramble made sense to someone, and I hope it helped someone.

The Long Term Illness forum takes anonymous posts. Anyone who feels like asking for non-medical advise is always greeted with respect there. Don't be afraid to ask for help.

Lone Stone

Im very surprised by the poll i thought it would be high but no that high,
Yea two friends two relatives two co workers and one friends father.
It just really shows the lack of help for people suffering with depression and other mental health issues in this country. Its not a very place to be was there myself a few years ago glad i didnt do anything stupid.

MrsMcSteamy

Yes, 2 sisters of mine have attempted it. My eldest has attempted it twice. She has always said since she was a child, and my dad acknowledges this (she told him when she was i think 6) that she would not live long, that she would die young. She is now 30 and i hope i see her when she is old and wrinkly and grey all over.

More recently a lady of mid 50's committed suicide, she had suffered for the last 15 yrs with her nerves. Her husband, god bless him, whilst he said he doesnt understand it if someone said he could have her back in the morning the way she was he wouldnt want that. She obviously felt that she could no longer struggle on and that he genuinely feels she is a peace now and he can live with the pain he has to suffer now as long as she is no longer in pain.

Boxoffrogs

MrsMcSteamy wrote: »

Yes, 2 sisters of mine have attempted it. My eldest has attempted it twice. She has always said since she was a child, and my dad acknowledges this (she told him when she was i think 6) that she would not live long, that she would die young. She is now 30 and i hope i see her when she is old and wrinkly and grey all over.

More recently a lady of mid 50's committed suicide, she had suffered for the last 15 yrs with her nerves. Her husband, god bless him, whilst he said he doesnt understand it if someone said he could have her back in the morning the way she was he wouldnt want that. She obviously felt that she could no longer struggle on and that he genuinely feels she is a peace now and he can live with the pain he has to suffer now as long as she is no longer in pain.

This part of your post in bold really touched me, it shows real love and understanding for him to feel that way.

Cat Melodeon

MultiUmm wrote: »

It's a silent scandal that more people die from suicide in Ireland each year than on the roads.

Particularly when you include the many single-vehicle accidents that are actually suicides but aren't treated as such by the Gardaí in order to spare the families further grief. Not all such accidents are suicides, but it's believed that many are.

MultiUmm

Terry wrote: »

Story here: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055054940
It's something I have tried to put behind me these days because it was not the best time of my life.



It was this respect which prompted me to tell people my story. I can only hope that it inspires at least one person to go and seek help. If it does, then it was worth exposing myself to people in a country that mostly dismisses mental health issues, or looks at those suffering as people who should be locked up in an asylum.

I got to say, I admire you greatly for posting your story over in the Long Term Illness forum.

Fair bloody play to you, it takes a special kind of person to lay their soul bare like that and tell even one person all that they've been through, never mind numerous people on a public forum. Christ knows that takes a hell of a lot of strength and courage, writing about it is one thing, but actually living through it all ...

Sir, I salute you.

Dudess

Terry, as Slashermcgurk said, maybe it could be argued that, objectively, it is selfish, but that would eliminate each person's individual story...

And re the "It takes a lot of balls" posts: yeah I see where that's coming from - it's not that it's literally an act of courage, but I suppose it's the ultimate harm you can do yourself, it goes against one of our most basic and developed instincts: survival...

chatterpillar wrote: »

.

The ultimate test of friendship really - fair fecking play to you, that was brilliant. You saved her, and whether it was "emotional blackmail" or not (not sure whether that's accurate - emotional blackmail is for negative ends, this was very much for positive ones) I've no doubt she must be so thankful to you for... possibly saving her life.

A friend of mine - well she was quite a good friend when I lived in Dublin (a housemate) - don't see her now because she's an in-patient at St Pat's most of the time, but I regularly get in touch... to be frank, often to ensure she's still alive, as I don't know any other family members or close friends of hers. I'm so scared that one day a text/email won't be answered...
The hell she's going through - she's bipolar (this brings with it the delightful combination of psychosis, paranoia, hallucinations, a severe eating disorder, a predisposition to self-harm...) and has to take tablets in double figures every single day. She's 31 and this has been going on since she was 18, her life is shattered, her youth has been stolen from her - she can't even do something as minor as enjoy a drink ffs. Try telling her to pull herself together and cheer up... And yet, she's one of the bubbliest, best ****ing laughs you could meet. She really tries to make the best of things and deal with it via humour, but every day hurts so badly for her, so yeah, she regularly thinks about killing herself... and frankly, would you blame her? There is treatment for this, but no known "cure"/end in sight. This is her life - the drugs, the stints in mental hospital, the endless therapy... they're not a means to an end, they are an end in itself. Her situation drew a comparison in my mind to that of a guy I knew who succumbed to multiple sclerosis in its most degenerative form, resulting in his paralysis and agonising pain where he still had feeling - he volunteered himself for euthanasia in Switzerland. The physical (as well as emotional) pain he was going through was just too much. But I guess there's possibly more understanding of a person wanting to end their life because of physical pain, seeing as mental illness is just not viewed generally in the same way as physical illness is, and it should be. A really robust mental health awareness campaign using physical illness metaphors might be quite effective, I don't know...

I suppose it's maybe seen that the difference between ending your life because of the physical as opposed to mental is: in the latter case, you can still walk and talk and go about the place (well, not always for those with really debilitating depression) which might be quite crude, but there's some merit in it, imo, and I could never encourage someone to end their life if they're suicidal - I'd have to take a similar approach to Chatterpillar's, and I did do the staying up all night with that friend of mine once, to stop her from topping herself (getting her to think about what it would do to her family and friends etc) - it's a ****ing scary situation to be in... But to be honest, while I desperately hope she'll live a long life, it wouldn't surprise me if the worst happened...

MrsMcSteamy

diddledum wrote: »

This part of your post in bold really touched me, it shows real love and understanding for him to feel that way.

I know what you mean. He has a picture of her in the kitchen and when he is feeling angry he goes and shouts at her photo. I suppose he finds a release by doing that.

Wompa1

Its difficult to know if its selfish or not. If the person in question is really depressed and down on themselves they may think that their friends and family would be better off without them. Unfortunately then nothing could be further from the truth and it destroys peoples lives. My girlfriends dad killed himself 5 years ago and her family is really hurting. The rest of all their lives are affected by it, it affects their decisions, their physical and mental health.
If everybody that was going to kill themselves could see the trail of devestation it leaves behind I don't think they'd go through with it.

Terry

MultiUmm wrote: »

I got to say, I admire you greatly for posting your story over in the Long Term Illness forum.

Fair bloody play to you, it takes a special kind of person to lay their soul bare like that and tell even one person all that they've been through, never mind numerous people on a public forum. Christ knows that takes a hell of a lot of strength and courage, writing about it is one thing, but actually living through it all ...

Sir, I salute you.

I certainly am special.

iMax

These guys are friends of mine - www.friendsofemmet.com They're trying desperetly hard to raise awareness (& funds) for depression & suicide.

All proceeds from the sale of their track Coming Apart via itunes is going to be donated to the likes of aware in Ireland & the American Mental Health Foundation in the US.

The guy in the white shirt in the video is Kevin Hines. He's one of only 23 people to have survived a suicide attempt of jumping from the golden gate bridge (google him). The song is about him & he's now a friend of the band. He currently tours America giving talks about depression & his story of survival & how people can come through it.

Go to the site, find them on facebook & add yourselves as a fan. They're doing great work with very little (read none) media support. & the more people that support them, the better they can do to spread the word.

mikemac

Hey iMax

Your link didn't work

Here it is now
http://www.friendsofemmet.com/

iMax

Thanks man !

mikemac

It's a cracking tune

Just bought it on itunes, 99cent is nothing to pay for a song and you know where the money is going

Never heard of that band until now, sure check it out is all I can say.

Album is good too at 8.99.
Wow, I look like a schill. It's a good cause and sure listen and make up your own mind

Banji

Pic on the bottom left looks like bono.

Good band though

iMax

He gets stopped all the time & asked for his autograph. I was having coffee with him last week in Dublin & three italian girls came running up to him & started taking photos & then asked me to take one of them all

Micky Dolenz

I'll ignore the band pimp if ye get back on topic.

I talked a close family member out of it when I was a child, after they told me they were planning it.
I absolutely hate the "emotional blackmail" approach. Completely. It seems to disregard everything the person is feeling and focuses on how everyone else MIGHT feel. I know people are trying to get across to the person that they're loved, but by god is it an arseways way of doing it. When this person told me someone had asked "what about -my real name-", I was inclined to dismiss it, because it was about them and not me.
I also think saying "it's selfish" is ridiculous given the above "what about me" attitude.
What about the person who is in such a bad state and messed up already they want to overcome their survival instinct? Emotional blackmail on top of that?!

Anyway the person in question is a very happy person these days.

Micky Dolenz

It really is an interesting subject and while the end result is always the same, the paths to getting there can be so different.

why has Ireland such a high rate and why mostly young men?

I can't help but think the weather has a part to play in it.

enda1

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

It really is an interesting subject and while the end result is always the same, the paths to getting there can be so different.

why has Ireland such a high rate and why mostly young men?

I can't help but think the weather has a part to play in it.

Why does everyone always say Ireland has a high rate?

It doesn't remarkably stand out from its peers