Dole recipients Will have to work 19.5 hours

ei.sdraob

bbam wrote: »

No but it is popular with the section of the voters who think that the minute a person singns on the dole that they are spongers and that they have lost all rights to any self respect...

It's also a great way to speed up the exedous of skilled experienced workforce from Ireland....

Yes that sounds like a typical FF solution when you put it that way.

timespast

As so many people are coming down on the unemployed how about employers and the self employed?

For years many of these have operated in the "Black economy"

Jobs paid for in cash....you reckon the Revenue see any of this?

Small businesses ...... they buy plenty of goods for home personal use (let's claim the vat back)

This Country admires the "cute hoors"...no wonder our politicians thought nothing of screwing the system.

All of this reminds me of Charlie Haughey "we are living beyond our means"

I suspect we have posters here cutting their teeth in politics as they are preparing themselves to take on Daddys Council seat. (no doubt Grandad had the seat previously)

The amount of FF apologists here ....spot them a mile off.

Trotting out the same old spin the Govt. and media come out with.

Most need someone to blame so they can feel superior.

The country is shagged.

bonzos

Like everything else in this country this would be abused by the scumbags that would have the system flooded with claims that they got injuried while "working" ...then another quango would be set up to "train" the scumbags in order to try and prevent this. The ordinary decent persons only role in this counrty is to provide money for the scum who are at the very top and the scum who are at the bottom driving their 2010 reg vans and 4x4 depite never having worked . We are F**ked and deserve to be because we all turned a blind eye the the corruption the that goes on in front of our eyes everyday.....

timespast

bonzos wrote: »

Like everything else in this country this would be abused by the scumbags that would have the system flooded with claims that they got injuried while "working" ...then another quango would be set up to "train" the scumbags in order to try and prevent this. The ordinary decent persons only role in this counrty is to provide money for the scum who are at the very top and the scum who are at the bottom driving their 2010 reg vans and 4x4 depite never having worked . We are F**ked and deserve to be because we all turned a blind eye the the corruption the that goes on in front of our eyes everyday.....

So anyone wishing to be trained in is a scumbag?

TBH a lot of small companies did away with liability insurance as the Insurance companies charged ridiculous amounts.

The scum at the very bottom..... run that past me again....do they drive the 4X4 or the 2010 vans?

Welease

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Ok we have lets say alot of unemployed civil engineers

what work do you propose they do? build more houses/offices ? oh wait we did that for a while, and more importantly who pays for it and what's the net benefit and to whom?

---

This whole thread is a perfect illustration as to why the government is terrible employer when it comes to job creation and organisation
This should be left to the private sector.

The questions people are asking here are backward!

It should not be a case of "What the hell will we do with the unemployed?"

But a question of "What can we and the government do to make it easier for companies to be created, survive and to inturn employ people?"

By making people dig ditches or clean streets or paint walls you are not addressing the core issues, that got them there and can get them out of unemployment.

True.. but conversely..

If people don't want to take any measure of pain, want to keep their heads buried in the sand and want the government to borrow borrow borrow to continue the excess, then that leaves very little resource for the government to spend on cutting employers PRSI, lowering rates, lowering utilities, providing grants, tax holidays and funding for risky startups, credit extensions for viable business's etc.

Continuing to refuse to deal with the problem because of the Anglo bailout (not that you specifically are) is just dumb.. but thats what 90% of posters on this board believe is a viable position.

You are correct, there is little attempt to fix the core problems (and it's doubtful whether the government has the intelligence or foresight to do so), but people also need to realise that a country this small has very finite resources and we currently make no attempt to use those resources in a manner which will create employment, and nor will we do so if we continue to provide handouts to lots and tax the few.

timespast

Welease wrote: »

True.. but conversely..

If people don't want to take any measure of pain, want to keep their heads buried in the sand and want the government to borrow borrow borrow to continue the excess, then that leaves very little resource for the government to spend on cutting employers PRSI, lowering rates, lowering utilities, providing grants, tax holidays and funding for risky startups, credit extensions for viable business's etc.

Continuing to refuse to deal with the problem because of the Anglo bailout (not that you specifically are) is just dumb.. but thats what 90% of posters on this board believe is a viable position.

You are correct, there is little attempt to fix the core problems (and it's doubtful whether the government has the intelligence or foresight to do so), but people also need to realise that a country this small has very finite resources and we currently make no attempt to use those resources in a manner which will create employment, and nor will we do so if we continue to provide handouts to lots and tax the few.

Provide handouts to lots?

These very same people have paid into the system for years......... I hate to bring the public sector workers into it...... but it is a fact our teachers earn more than most in the EU...... Nurses earn more than in London...I could go on.

There is a culture here that Public sector workers (at the higher level) were looked after (as were the bloody politicians) to secure votes....no strikes etc.

We have a ridiculous amount of Politicians (75% are either teachers or farmers) small one horse towns have maybe a dozen councillors..... U.D.C. and County.

At the end of the day when the going gets tough.....those in the middle and at the top need someone to blame.

A lot of you sound like "little Englanders"

Welease

timespast wrote: »

Provide handouts to lots?

These very same people have paid into the system for years......... I hate to bring the public sector workers into it...... but it is a fact our teachers earn more than most in the EU...... Nurses earn more than in London...I could go on.

There is a culture here that Public sector workers (at the higher level) were looked after (as were the bloody politicians) to secure votes....no strikes etc.

We have a ridiculous amount of Politicians (75% are either teachers or farmers) small one horse towns have maybe a dozen councillors..... U.D.C. and County.

At the end of the day when the going gets tough.....those in the middle and at the top need someone to blame.

A lot of you sound like "little Englanders"

Yes, I would consider those handouts.. and excesses..
As would the fact we pay child benefit to all irrespective of income, 50% of lowest paid don't pay tax.. 1000's of unnecessary staff in the HSE etc etc etc..

It all comes out of a very small pot...

I'm not blaming the lowest, this thread is about getting long term people on dole to get paid extra for doing some community work.. or does the actual thread and what people are saying not count when there is a rant to be had?

timespast

Welease wrote: »

Yes, I would consider those handouts.. and excesses..
As would the fact we pay child benefit to all irrespective of income, 50% of lowest paid don't pay tax.. 1000's of unnecessary staff in the HSE etc etc etc..

It all comes out of a very small pot...

I'm not blaming the lowest, this thread is about getting long term people on dole to get paid extra for doing some community work.. or does the actual thread and what people are saying not count when there is a rant to be had?

The recession has been "long term" it's not a lifestyle choice.

I agree with Child benefit......anyone earning over say 52k a year cut them off.

As for community work...all for it to a point....personally I think re education and training is the road to go down.

Investment is the way........ not pumping Billions into a corrupt Bank and a corrupt Country.

That's been our problem....... Ireland has been corrupt at so many levels.

previous user

Flex wrote: »

Regards the topic, Im not sure I think this is a good idea because it still means people are being paid by the government so doesnt help the economic situation at all.

Thats an interesting point, I'm wondering if the real reason for this job scheme is to appease the Guys in Europe that we're borrowing off and saying 'look this is a self sustainable system of social benefit, can we have that extra money for the Nama thing now', as well as appeasing voting taxpayers at home as well.

efb

timespast wrote: »

The recession has been "long term" it's not a lifestyle choice.

I agree with Child benefit......anyone earning over say 52k a year cut them off.

As for community work...all for it to a point....personally I think re education and training is the road to go down.

Investment is the way........ not pumping Billions into a corrupt Bank and a corrupt Country.

That's been our problem....... Ireland has been corrupt at so many levels.

Great the long term unemployed are fine sponging since their local councillor got them their own authority house but let's punish those who worked hard and reached €52k so their tax euro can pay for someones else's kids.

And some people have been on the BTEA since I was in college that's 12 years ago- what are they studying SW Loopholes 101?

Welease

timespast wrote: »

The recession has been "long term" it's not a lifestyle choice.

I agree with Child benefit......anyone earning over say 52k a year cut them off.

As for community work...all for it to a point....personally I think re education and training is the road to go down.

Investment is the way........ not pumping Billions into a corrupt Bank and a corrupt Country.

That's been our problem....... Ireland has been corrupt at so many levels.

Yes.. it is corrupt.. but that won't change and things won't get better if everyone chants the mantra... "the bankers did it, so i don't see why I should take a hit"..

Everyone is going to take a hit.. whether you or I caused it or not..

This community program doesn't sort out anything.. it's not intended to be a panacea for all the ills of this country.. it's a change for people who receive from the community to give something back, receive extra money, and also allows them to work the other few days without taking a hit to their benefits.. these are all good things for the long term unemployed (as only those on dole for 12 months would be eligible). It also avoids them becoming means tested, and possibly having their dole lowered.

Those who don't want to do it.. well (harsh as it may sound) **** em.. if you believe your degree in civil engineering (for example) means you are above doing something "beneath you", then fine.. don't do it, but don't expect others to continue to pay for you to sit around doing nothing..
The majority of people who object seem to be those who while unemployed, believe they are somehow better than others who are unemployed, or indeed better than those who give their time freely for the community, or collect litter as a job..


Regarding fixing this country.. well when the PS and the unions vote to maintain their premium conditions with the CP agreement, pensioners won't take cuts, unemployed wont take cuts, lowest paid don't want to pay taxes.. and the middle have to pay for everything.. well someone somewhere is going to have to step up to the plate and do something. But, it's dear old Ireland.. whats that noise? .. ahh it's the old mantra ""the bankers did it, so i don't see why I should take a hit"..

Despite what people say, this country isn't screwed.. but we seem to prefer death by 1000 cuts, rather than taking a dose of medicine to cure the problem..

IamtheWalrus

The jackasses in our government backed by greedy property developers got us into this mess in the first place. Those unemployed because of the recklessness of said pair shouldn't feel guilty about receiving money to get by. Most people on the dole would jump at the chance to get off it and go back to work. How about those in government work an extra 19.5 hours a week to get us out of this mess.

Welease

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

The jackasses in our government backed by greedy property developers got us into this mess in the first place. Those unemployed because of the recklessness of said pair shouldn't feel guilty about receiving money to get by. Most people on the dole would jump at the chance to get off it and go back to work. How about those in government work an extra 19.5 hours a week to get us out of this mess.

And that will fix what?

Have a look at the defecit.. have a look at the tax take.. continue to blame others.. lets come back in a couple of years and see how much has improved.. or.. lets understand, nothing will change unless people stop the blame game, and start forcing the government to create the conditions for employment by allowing them to use our scant resources for employment creation not unaffordable luxuries.

(At this stage, its all irrelevant. but greedy developers wouldn't have been able to be greedy, if greedy people in this country didn't fall for the "buy property become rich mantra".. iirc in 2007 30% of all mortgages were on second properties.. there is no market unless someone is willing to buy.. and people fueled that market. )

timespast

Welease wrote: »

Yes.. it is corrupt.. but that won't change and things won't get better if everyone chants the mantra... "the bankers did it, so i don't see why I should take a hit"..

Everyone is going to take a hit.. whether you or I caused it or not..

This community program doesn't sort out anything.. it's not intended to be a panacea for all the ills of this country.. it's a change for people who receive from the community to give something back, receive extra money, and also allows them to work the other few days without taking a hit to their benefits.. these are all good things for the long term unemployed (as only those on dole for 12 months would be eligible). It also avoids them becoming means tested, and possibly having their dole lowered.

Those who don't want to do it.. well (harsh as it may sound) **** em.. if you believe your degree in civil engineering (for example) means you are above doing something "beneath you", then fine.. don't do it, but don't expect others to continue to pay for you to sit around doing nothing..
The majority of people who object seem to be those who while unemployed, believe they are somehow better than others who are unemployed, or indeed better than those who give their time freely for the community, or collect litter as a job..


Regarding fixing this country.. well when the PS and the unions vote to maintain their premium conditions with the CP agreement, pensioners won't take cuts, unemployed wont take cuts, lowest paid don't want to pay taxes.. and the middle have to pay for everything.. well someone somewhere is going to have to step up to the plate and do something. But, it's dear old Ireland.. whats that noise? .. ahh it's the old mantra ""the bankers did it, so i don't see why I should take a hit"..

Despite what people say, this country isn't screwed.. but we seem to prefer death by 1000 cuts, rather than taking a dose of medicine to cure the problem..

This country is screwed..... as for a dose of medicine take a look at the amount of cuts already implemented.

The reality is those at the bottom take the biggest cuts.

Those at the bottom have never had a choice to take cuts.

It's not a case of "the bankers did it, so why should I take a hit" I'd like to see those that were corrupt .... in politics, finance etc see the inside of a court.

Cuts have been carried out...... more cuts should be carried out...this includes Child benefit for over 55-60k p.a. earners....... the education system allowing upgrading of text books every 2 years (they laugh at this in the UK)
This could go on and on........ as I said some of you are looking to blame someone for a small cut in your lifestyle.....get used to it.....you yourselves brought this on because you believed "the dream"

Life's a bitch when the sauna has to go eh?

demonspawn

Not a bad idea to be honest. I've stopped looking for work as the continuous rejections are seriously damaging my self-esteem and it's just pure frustrating looking for work these days. If they can offer me a part time/full time job doing anything I'd take it. I need to get the f**k out of this house and do something productive before I go mental.

I've been working on and off since I was 15 years old. This is the longest time I've ever been unemployed due to lack of available jobs.

Welease

timespast wrote: »

This country is screwed..... as for a dose of medicine take a look at the amount of cuts already implemented.

The reality is those at the bottom take the biggest cuts.

Those at the bottom have never had a choice to take cuts.

Seriously (and I'm not trying to be an arse here).. what cuts? this country has taken minor (with a capital M) cuts.. Our defecit is over 20 Billion.. the cuts so far have been a plaster on a cancerous wound. (another 3 billion next budget).

timespast wrote: »

It's not a case of "the bankers did it, so why should I take a hit" I'd like to see those that were corrupt .... in politics, finance etc see the inside of a court.

Agreed, but look as every thread on this board.. Justice needs to be done, but look at the threads here (and from the unions).. we didnt cause it, we shouldnt be hit..

timespast wrote: »

Cuts have been carried out...... more cuts should be carried out...this includes Child benefit for over 55-60k p.a. earners....... the education system allowing upgrading of text books every 2 years (they laugh at this in the UK)
This could go on and on........ as I said some of you are looking to blame someone for a small cut in your lifestyle.....get used to it.....you yourselves brought this on because you believed "the dream"

I assume you don't mean me I think everyone needs to take major cuts in their lifestyles (which were based on credit anyway), and stop paralysing the country by thinking assigning blame causes the problem to go away... The problem will not disappear until people understand the issue effects us all, and we all need to deal with it.

timespast

Welease wrote: »

Seriously (and I'm not trying to be an arse here).. what cuts? this country has taken minor (with a capital M) cuts.. Our defecit is over 20 Billion.. the cuts so far have been a plaster on a cancerous wound. (another 3 billion next budget).



Agreed, but look as every thread on this board.. Justice needs to be done, but look at the threads here (and from the unions).. we didnt cause it, we shouldnt be hit..



I assume you don't mean me I think everyone needs to take major cuts in their lifestyles (which were based on credit anyway), and stop paralysing the country by thinking assigning blame causes the problem to go away... The problem will not disappear until people understand the issue effects us all, and we all need to deal with it.

When I mentioned cuts I meant personally...I know a guy very well.....lost his job 10 months ago.... married ,3 kids and worked for the last 22 years solid.

The cuts that have been enforced on him have been huge...fair enough...but what I find disturbing is the tone of a lot of posters here in regards to families like his.

Yes we have a major problem.....do you actually trust the present mob or FF mk II to get us out of it?

You mention credit...... I call it capitalism and Ireland's version collapsed.

Anglo should of gone to the wall ...... a bit late now I but it shows what cretins we are up against.

For people to say stop moaning we are in it together is on a par with "you know better than us"

My politics have always developed over the years....... now Im back to when I was 21..... left wing and pissed off.

We have a culture of corruption......a lot needs to be changed.

Welease

timespast wrote: »

When I mentioned cuts I meant personally...I know a guy very well.....lost his job 10 months ago.... married ,3 kids and worked for the last 22 years solid.

The cuts that have been enforced on him have been huge...fair enough...but what I find disturbing is the tone of a lot of posters here in regards to families like his.

I think people voluntarily misread the tone in an attempt to deflect attention elsewhere..

The defecit is so huge, cuts have to come from everywhere... People seem to think mentioning a specific area is a personal attack on everyone who falls into that category.. look at the drivel posted in this thread, because a proposal exists to allow long term dole receipients to do community work in exchange for higher benefit, with the opporortunity to take on further private work without reducing benefits, while also not being means tested (which they would after 12 months).. people in this thread proclaim "stop calling us spongers.. we paid PRSI".. No one called anyone a sponger...

timespast wrote: »

Yes we have a major problem.....do you actually trust the present mob or FF mk II to get us out of it?

What I think makes no difference, its just my vote.. We all have the vote.. If we vote our local guy back in because he build a swimming pool locally while also perjuring himself in court.. then we get the government we asked for. And incidentally, we have the government we asked for...

timespast wrote: »

You mention credit...... I call it capitalism and Ireland's version collapsed.

Thats capitalism.. people in this country wanted to play.. and many lost..

timespast wrote: »

Anglo should of gone to the wall ...... a bit late now I but it shows what cretins we are up against.

Yes it should.. and we (well i didn't but I can't use that as an excuse ) voted them in.. The people in this country were fine with (or oblivious to) lax regulations in the boom years.. everyone milked it.. now we deal with the hangover..

timespast wrote: »

For people to say stop moaning we are in it together is on a par with "you know better than us"

But we are.. I left here in 1988, and didn't come back till Nov 2007.. I didn't play one part in this catastrophy, but I understand I will need to pay heavily over the next 20 years to fix the problem.. why is that so difficult for others to understand?
The long lines of unemployments queues are not a figment of peoples imagination, they really do exist, and they won't go away until people in this country wake the **** up and start doing something.. Blaming Seanie or Biffo won't fix a single thing!

timespast wrote: »

My politics have always developed over the years....... now Im back to when I was 21..... left wing and pissed off.

Left wing in this country sits on the board of the central bank, and ensured no cuts in the Public Sector until 2014.. and of course it's all out strike's if we don't pay electricians 8 hours for turning of an alarm that a security guard can and does do in private companies and of course, their only policy so far is to reverse PS pay cuts..

timespast wrote: »

We have a culture of corruption......a lot needs to be changed.

Agreed.

timespast

Welease wrote: »

I think people voluntarily misread the tone in an attempt to deflect attention elsewhere..

The defecit is so huge, cuts have to come from everywhere... People seem to think mentioning a specific area is a personal attack on everyone who falls into that category.. look at the drivel posted in this thread, because a proposal exists to allow long term dole receipients to do community work in exchange for higher benefit, with the opporortunity to take on further private work without reducing benefits, while also not being means tested (which they would after 12 months).. people in this thread proclaim "stop calling us spongers.. we paid PRSI".. No one called anyone a sponger...



What I think makes no difference, its just my vote.. We all have the vote.. If we vote our local guy back in because he build a swimming pool locally while also perjuring himself in court.. then we get the government we asked for. And incidentally, we have the government we asked for...



Thats capitalism.. people in this country wanted to play.. and many lost..



Yes it should.. and we (well i didn't but I can't use that as an excuse ) voted them in.. The people in this country were fine with (or oblivious to) lax regulations in the boom years.. everyone milked it.. now we deal with the hangover..



But we are.. I left here in 1988, and didn't come back till Nov 2007.. I didn't play one part in this catastrophy, but I understand I will need to pay heavily over the next 20 years to fix the problem.. why is that so difficult for others to understand?
The long lines of unemployments queues are not a figment of peoples imagination, they really do exist, and they won't go away until people in this country wake the **** up and start doing something.. Blaming Seanie or Biffo won't fix a single thing!



Left wing in this country sits on the board of the central bank, and ensured no cuts in the Public Sector until 2014.. and of course it's all out strike's if we don't pay electricians 8 hours for turning of an alarm that a security guard can and does do in private companies and of course, their only policy so far is to reverse PS pay cuts..




Agreed.

Well, Ive certainly read posters here calling others spongers etc.

I agree with a lot what you say and I know most would work voluntarily and go for re training.

As for Left wing in the Central Bank....... The Labour Party and the Unions aren't left wing ...so I dont know who that is.

I know this thread is about 19.5 hours for dole recipients ....I admit I got side tracked by the tone of some.

I only just realised those on Disability allowance/pension (genuine disabilities) in a lot of cases can earn up to a hundred euro on top of their allowance....... of course the Govt. will see around 21% of this in VAT they spend their extra money on.

Im for schemes...... I just don't like scapegoats ( which I think a few here are doing)

Welease

timespast wrote: »

Well, Ive certainly read posters here calling others spongers etc.

I agree with a lot what you say and I know most would work voluntarily and go for re training.

As for Left wing in the Central Bank....... The Labour Party and the Unions aren't left wing ...so I dont know who that is.

I know this thread is about 19.5 hours for dole recipients ....I admit I got side tracked by the tone of some.

I only just realised those on Disability allowance/pension (genuine disabilities) in a lot of cases can earn up to a hundred euro on top of their allowance....... of course the Govt. will see around 21% of this in VAT they spend their extra money on.

Im for schemes...... I just don't like scapegoats ( which I think a few here are doing)

Well i think we shall have to agree to err agree

I don't like scapegoats either, but everyone will have to be involved in fixing the problems of this country, and when the focus falls on each area they need to take the pain. We have a €20b + hole to fix.. and no single area can plug a gap that size..

bonzos

timespast wrote: »

So anyone wishing to be trained in is a scumbag?

TBH a lot of small companies did away with liability insurance as the Insurance companies charged ridiculous amounts.

The scum at the very bottom..... run that past me again....do they drive the 4X4 or the 2010 vans?

Where did I say anyone wishing to be trained is a scumbag?:rolleyes:ordinary decent person who just wants a job and would have no problem working for 19 hrs a week.....do you actually believe that if there was a job say of cutting hedges etc...that one of the many spongers in the country who engaged in the claim culture would not see this an another chance to make a handy few grand???FFS we cant even let the army cut their own grass because they would need special "training"....as for the 2010 vans and 4x4 comment,I dont know where you live but everyday I meet waster who never worked that seem to have endless amount of cash and it just make me wonder???

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

timespast

bonzos wrote: »

Where did I say anyone wishing to be trained is a scumbag?:rolleyes:ordinary decent person who just wants a job and would have no problem working for 19 hrs a week.....do you actually believe that if there was a job say of cutting hedges etc...that one of the many spongers in the country who engaged in the claim culture would not see this an another chance to make a handy few grand???FFS we cant even let the army cut their own grass because they would need special "training"....as for the 2010 vans and 4x4 comment,I dont know where you live but everyday I meet waster who never worked that seem to have endless amount of cash and it just make me wonder???

With your insight perhaps you should offer your special skills to the Revenue and Dept of Social Welfare.

bonzos

timespast wrote: »

With your insight perhaps you should offer your special skills to the Revenue and Dept of Social Welfare.

This is not a "special skill or insight":rolleyes:.....we just need our dept of SW employees to start doing their jobs and start asking the questions of where this wealth came from!If you think that I possess a "special skill" because I wonder how certain people in this country who are in court every 2nd week getting free legal aid despite still managing to drive new cars and vans then your perception of right and wrong is alot different to mine!!!

timespast

bonzos wrote: »

This is not a "special skill or insight":rolleyes:.....we just need our dept of SW employees to start doing their jobs and start asking the questions of where this wealth came from!If you think that I possess a "special skill" because I wonder how certain people in this country who are in court every 2nd week getting free legal aid despite still managing to drive new cars and vans then your perception of right and wrong is alot different to mine!!!

This thread is about dole recipients working 19.5 hours a week .....you've brought it around to "scumbags" and "criminals"

I suggest you e mail or preferably write to your local Garda Sgt. and ask what he's going to do about it.

Have you got figures for people who are driving around in 2010 vans , claiming legal aid and obviously aren't working?

Head The Wall

Sandvich wrote: »

You can't really blame them for that, ideally we should all prepare for a rainy day but these are extreme circumstances that are NOT their fault.

Who is to blame so?

People have only themselves to blame if they didn't save for a rainy day. Who the hell else can save for them?

SuperInfinity

timespast wrote: »

This thread is about dole recipients working 19.5 hours a week .....you've brought it around to "scumbags" and "criminals"

I suggest you e mail or preferably write to your local Garda Sgt. and ask what he's going to do about it.

Have you got figures for people who are driving around in 2010 vans , claiming legal aid and obviously aren't working?

He's a troll timespast. Anyone who uses smileys like ":rolleyes:", where in a serious way they mean, "oh god, how stupid are you lololol" is obviously very immature and lowlife rude themselves and I wouldn't attempt discussion with them.

Why would you need a smiley rolling your eyes to the sky if what you're saying is valid to begin with? I mean why can't what you're saying speak for itself?

pocketvenus

I think this is another case of the goverment not knowing what to do with the country and just throwing out any idea without fully researching it or having proper implmentation.

I lost my job just over a year ago and in that time I have been keeping busy by helping out family member with DIY jobs, have done a French course by night and doing some volunteer work however as time goes on without any improvement in job creation it can get you very down.

I have no problem with umemployed people being helped to find volunteer work however I have a few issues. First of all considering the recession it is some cheek of some people and the Government to call people receiving SW for a year or just over long term receipients. My view would be that this scheme should first apply to people maybe 6 years + on the SW start there. If they are using it to clamp down on SW fraud well this is where it shold start. Not at people similar to myself who in past 1-2 years have through no fault of their own find themselves unemployed.

Secondly if jobs on this scheme are clipping headrows, cleaning up litter from side of roads etc - well where are the people paid to to do. Every cit and county council employed people to do this job so where are they and why aren't they doing their jobs in the first place. If they are not willing to do these types of jobs well why should they force other people to do it. Linked to this is these councils workers, who are civil servants cannot be let go, so what are they going to be employed to do if the SW recipients are taking over their jobs?

Never mind say vetting issues for people working with children, eldery etc. That is just a small few problems with the scheme.

If they spent more time looking at how to upskill people properly ( not FAS - that organisation just needs to be closed it's so corrupt at this stage) and getting business to set up here not just in Dublin but all over the country's IDA it would be time better spent.

timespast

SuperInfinity wrote: »

He's a troll timespast. Anyone who uses smileys like ":rolleyes:", where in a serious way they mean, "oh god, how stupid are you lololol" is obviously very immature and lowlife rude themselves and I wouldn't attempt discussion with them.

Why would you need a smiley rolling your eyes to the sky if what you're saying is valid to begin with? I mean why can't what you're saying speak for itself?

You're right.....I'm new to this and I just wanted to highlight what he was saying was ridiculous.

I'm all for opinion but his comments are indeed immature.

Sandvich

I'd just like to point out how stupid it is that the right wingers and "concerned parties" relative to the national debt are all over this thread, but haven't bothered to pop into my Employment Subsidy thread in most cases, which is all about ways of actually improving the economy and not just the national debt. Threads that involve sometimes rather drastic measures to deal with the large number of unemployed seem to attract the most attention.

Why does welfare get more attention than the bank bailouts? The libs don't like either, but why do they focus far more on the welfare, which at least for this year, is costing less?

This just makes it more apparent that they care more about looking smug, sticking it to people less well off to them and HRUR STOOPAD SOSAHLIST than coming up with real solutions. Which is ironic because they then turn around and say people only want to defend the unemployed because of bleeding hearts.

What a joke.

Welfare is way too high yeah? Yeah, I'm all over that, cut it ten million percent.
Forcing people on the dole to work? Yeah I'm all over that, ah man yeah it'd be funny.
Creating jobs, possibly without dropping standard of living? What the hell are you, someone who gives a toss about people?

This whole forum is becoming increasingly about people masturbating over what we can do to piss on people on welfare who probably don't want to be to begin with. Though a lot of people would never talk the same kind of bollocks they do here in real life, it still makes me wonder for the future of the country as much as the debt does to begin with.

You solve unemployment and high welfare bills by creating jobs. We will never be competitive with india and China and countries that are simply more ideal for cheap labour, so we can't just drop wages. There are ways out of this, but it involves creative ways of creating jobs.

People are being really stupid about this - if we can put people to work anywhere, then that's a job we can create. It doesn't matter if it's not normally something people would be paid for, or that industry goes into - if we can put people doing work in a specific area and essentially give them money to do it(albiet less than minimum wage, but for less hours), then that is an area where you can have a job. My "Employment Subsidy" thread suggested some ideas to work with this without having to significantly drop minimum wage or welfare, though effectively heavily reducing both.

We need to make some ballsy decisions, but for some reason all the "tough decisions" seem to focus on the poor. If you ask me, we should take those bonuses off the bankers - oh of course that's SOCIALISM. But that's our ****ing money to begin with. Can we at least agree that all of the banks sponging off welfare dishing out bonuses should be heavily fined, in order to recoup the losses of Anglo? That 24bn has to go somewhere and I bet you if you the government took a no-**** attitude they could get most of it back.

We need to stop wasting our brains on this kind of stuff and use them to address the real problem. The Libertarians especially need to cop on, their solution to everything is less regulation, less welfare, more **** the poor, more corporate bollocks. At the very least you're winning nobody over to your ideas when you uphold the image you do. Creating jobs is a concern for EVERYONE, no matter where they lie politically. We need to focus on this, and while there have been suggestions with regards competitiveness there are ways to do this that don't involve pissing off the "socialists". Essentially all the Libertarian solutions for creating jobs involve Libertarianism, when the **** hits the fan we have to think of the best solution no matter how much we might have agreed with it before. Even if our collective lifestyle was unsustainable, there is no reason for people who are already at the bottom to drop their standard of living.