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Dole recipients Will have to work 19.5 hours
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SuperInfinity wrote: »I never said they would go to jail Welease, I said they would rather that.
They can't just stop their benefits because there would be rioting and protests.
If they did they could just live a life of crime instead. No need for benefits.
I'm not getting into a semantics arguement, it's unnecessary
The state won't jail anyone, they will cut the benefit.. and they are targetting 10K initially people for this scheme (of 450K), so given the usual percentage of people who will actually get off their arse in this country to protest about something... initial estimates are 1 slightly annoyed person will consider doing something on a forum but won't actually turn up on the day
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I'm not getting into a semantics arguement, it's unnecessary
The state won't jail anyone, they will cut the benefit.. and they are targetting 10K initially people for this scheme (of 450K), so given the usual percentage of people who will actually get off their arse in this country to protest about something... initial estimates are 1 slightly annoyed person will consider doing something on a forum but won't actually turn up on the day
Slightly annoyed? Are you off your rocker?
People have been giving hell about this on the Joe Duffy show, on the papers, even in this topic. Rarely has there been an issue that's evoked as much anger as this. Some people have careers and recently became unemployed, are expected to keep up with the changing times and update their skills, and perhaps a happy consolation is they get to enjoy a bit of a break in their careers from the usual 9 to 5, out of the rat-race for a while. I gaurantee you that this will push people into becoming "welfare people" and unemployed long-term if not for good, because instead of being given a chance to reinvent themselves and relax they are being hit over the head with this.
The scheme will fail because people will evade, they will claim to have done something, it'd be chaos. Let's call a spade a spade here: It is a STUPID idea and a stupid scheme, dreamt up by well-meaning people who really had no idea what they were doing.0 -
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SuperInfinity wrote: »Slightly annoyed? Are you off your rocker?
People have been giving hell about this on the Joe Duffy show, on the papers, even in this topic. Rarely has there been an issue that's evoked as much anger as this. Some people have careers and recently became unemployed, are expected to keep up with the changing times and update their skills, and perhaps a happy consolation is they get to enjoy a bit of a break in their careers from the usual 9 to 5, out of the rat-race for a while. I gaurantee you that this will push people into becoming "welfare people" and unemployed long-term if not for good, because instead of being given a chance to reinvent themselves and relax they are being hit over the head with this.
The scheme will fail because people will evade, they will claim to have done something, it'd be chaos. Let's call a spade a spade here: It is a STUPID idea and a stupid scheme, dreamt up by well-meaning people who really had no idea what they were doing.
Joe Duffy bollox..as usual..
No recently unemployed person qualifies for this scheme.. If it was as all-encompassing... how come only 10K are eligible out of 450K on the live register? It can't push people into long term unemployment, if only those who are moving into long term unemployment are eligible, and I doubt anyone will give up a promising career to continue with their community efforts.....0 -
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Community work - that is something that really needs to be defined.
See how O'Cuiv defined it - environmental work, childcare and caring for the elderly - excuse me but what do we pay taxes for?
"Community work" is another name for the holes in our service sector and the government want to fill this gap with cheap or free labour. Of course community busybodies are usually paid enough, most "community activists" (of course not all) have vested interests and get paid.
He also mentions the semi-economic sector such as heritage sites, tourism and sports - again what the fcuk are our taxes for. Tourism has always been a huge part of our economy - but has there been any investment and attempts at creating a sustainable sector in recent years. No. Just building lots of hotel rooms. So instead of hiring professional and genuinely interested staff with vision and ideas he will be forcing people into the sector. The schemes will roll on from year to year like the CE Schemes and no plans or strategies can be worked out as budget/staffing levels are always unknown from year to year.
He won't be asking anyone to work for charities that are not linked to filling gaps in our services.
We all know gov could never cover all these areas because they cut the tax rates and organised our economy to suit the few. They screwed up big time and this is a sticking plaster response. Of course it also removes people from the live register.
In case you missed the last couple of budgets.. our taxes don't currently cover jack We are mortgaging our kids future to continue to current spend.
Call it re-distribution of wealth..
Our taxes will now be paying for long term unemployed people to work on those tourism sites etc that you mention.. Why should we pay twice?We all know gov could never cover all these areas because they cut the tax rates and organised our economy to suit the few
Actually they organised the economy to suit the lowest paid.. 50% of workers don't pay any tax... you are welcome to suggest we start taxing those instead of utilising the unemployed..0 -
In case you missed the last couple of budgets.. our taxes don't currently cover jack We are mortgaging our kids future to continue to current spend.
Call it re-distribution of wealth..
Our taxes will now be paying for long term unemployed people to work on those tourism sites etc that you mention.. Why should we pay twice?
Actually they organised the economy to suit the lowest paid.. 50% of workers don't pay any tax... you are welcome to suggest we start taxing those instead of utilising the unemployed..
Our taxes don't cover jack now because the development of our economy outside property interests was neglected - this was to the benefit of a minority of influential people in this country - of course there were spin-off benefits particularly for gov with huge tax takes - but where was that money put - back into PS wages in the main.
I am not suggesting we have the tax to pay for these services now, but even when the tax take was huge these gaps occurred because services were not increased or developed - yes thanks to Unions and compliant gov who gave in.
And yes, part of the problem was abolition of taxes from lower paid workers, just more nonsense. They would have been better off taxing them and providng proper services.
My point was that the community sector is really a gap in our services that government pretend to provide. That is all. Some would have you believe that it is some altruistic area that saintly folk choose to give time to, it's driven by necessity and a governemnt that doesn't give a ****.0 -
Our taxes don't cover jack now because the development of our economy outside property interests was neglected - this was to the benefit of a minority of influential people in this country - of course there were spin-off benefits particularly for gov with huge tax takes - but where was that money put - back into PS wages in the main.
I am not suggesting we have the tax to pay for these services now, but even when the tax take was huge these gaps occurred because services were not increased or developed - yes thanks to Unions and compliant gov who gave in.
And yes, part of the problem was abolition of taxes from lower paid workers, just more nonsense. They would have been better off taxing them and providng proper services.
My point was that the community sector is really a gap in our services that government pretend to provide. That is all. Some would have you believe that it is some altruistic area that saintly folk choose to give time to, it's driven by necessity and a governemnt that doesn't give a ****.
Well on that we can agree
I personally believe that anyone who has a problem doing work in the community while being paid by the community, should then take their high arsed opinions of themselves elsewhere and stop receiving handouts from the community... It's laughable that people think picking up rubbish is beneath them, but they are willing to live off the taxes provided by those who do keep our streets/parks clean.. But thats the Celtic Tiger for ya..0 -
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