Work for Dole scheme announced

caseyann

Adyx wrote: »

Are you serious? Certainly they could have done more to minimise the effects, but the fact is that no other Irish government could have done anything to prevent a recession which had a global effect and is at least partly the fault of ordinary Irish people.

OT: I'm unemployed myself and would be in favour of this if it could be tailored somewhat towards gaining experience in your chosen field. For example I'd love to get some IT experience which I've just finished studying in college and the FAS WPP is only open to people who have been unemployed for at least 3 months. There was a perfect WP job advertised recently in Waterford for 40 hours a week in a 3rd level college working in the IT dept. but I'm not eligible.

They were warned years ago by economists and they didn't listen,just kept living high life.They didn't even have a saving plan to fall back on,which as a government they should have had in place.And you know why because they never lose out and never have to worry about a bill cause they get paid regardless.

Ordinary Irish people,so what are government gods lol
Ordinary Irish people did not have hold of purse strings of economy;)

round tower huntsman

im on the dole. im starting a full time fas course next week, fas will pay my dole for the course. im a plumber but have been applying for all types of work and not getting any replies. i would have no problem doing community work etc...for my dole as long as it didnt cost me anything eg. travel expenses etc...
but tbh if ff are going to run this it'll be a complete disaster imo. also i think that you should be offered a multiple choice of different types of work not just offered one job,take it or loose your dole.
people on the dole should be treated with respect and not bossed around like school kids. we're not on the dole by choice.

thebaldsoprano

I'd be curious to see how unions react to this. I'd imagine work like street cleaning for the corpo/council is quite heavily unionised and this could bring in a situation where you'd have people earning PS rates and dole rates for doing exactly the same job.

Personally, if I were to find myself redundant I'd jump at the chance to get out of the flat do some work, even though I've got plenty of other things to keep me occupied.

yoshytoshy

I'd say without a shadow of a doubt ,this will abolish Ce schemes all over ireland.

caseyann

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

I have no problems working for dole but I would have serious problems affording childcare if I were to take part in such a scheme. It wouldn't just be for the 19.5 hours in 3 straight shifts - many of the types of work proposed are not regular working hours or are in areas like childcare where the 19.5 hours would most likely be spread across 5 days. Add on travel time to the childminder and then to work and there won't be much change out of €210 per week. If they throw in free childcare (presumably to be done by other work-for-dolers, or 'scum' as AH likes to call them) and maybe it would be a more feasible scheme.

This is the thing,where my friend is from.For her children they have free after school care set up.Open from eight in morning until 7 in evening.She works in a retirement home,for dole wages.She doesnt have to hunt down a safe and low rate child minder.As we all know how much child minders cost if private.
Its your whole wages per hour.

Darlughda

letmerollit wrote: »

I felt worthless during those two months and I would have loved a bit of labour. Cleaning, helping with young ones, working in an animal shelter... Helping out the elderly or picking up trash. I wouldn't have minded at all. I would have enjoyed the distraction. I would have loved knowing I was contributing.

The unemployed receiving dole payments are an untapped resource. Get out there and earn your bread I say.

Then why did you not do voluntary work during your two months of unemployment?

letmerollit wrote: »

Ya you're not going to argue because you yourself know how idle the unemployed get. After I cleaned the gaff about 100 times and and went to the gym about 100 more times I started getting stir crazy. There is only so much day time TV you can watch like. .

There are hundreds of volunteer opportunities out there just check out www.volunteer.ie, why do you need a government to force you to work?

I am suspicious about this scheme. If it incorporates volunteer work then fine, but otherwise it smells of motivation draining pencil pushing jobs that are unnecessary, half-baked and badly supervised.

I would much rather see volunteer placements being incorporated into this, that are properly supervised and has real value for the individual and the community.

Valmont

I wouldn't introduce a scheme like this before a reduction in welfare. Trying to decrease social welfare after instituting a work-for-dole scheme would just be too hard to sell; heck, trying to sell a significant decrease full stop is going to be difficult.

gandalf

Depending on what way they impliement this I would welcome it. It would have to target the long term unemployed to get them back into the habit of working rather than those who have lost their jobs recently. Unfortunately the cynic in me suspects it will be a means of massaging unemployment numbers and to pretend that they are actually doing something about the problem.

btw cavedave ever heard of Godwins law?

round tower huntsman

Valmont wrote: »

I wouldn't introduce a scheme like this before a reduction in welfare. Trying to decrease social welfare after instituting a work-for-dole scheme would just be too hard to sell; heck, trying to sell a significant decrease full stop is going to be difficult.

reduction in welfare? i take it your not on the dole?
i worked non stop since i left school, 14 yrs plumbing/pipefitting. forced out of work. i've been applying for work in all sectors, min wage stuff industrial cleaning,storeman etc....and i cant get fcuk all. and im trying to keep a house on 240 a week and you want it reduced......GO FCUK YOURSELF.

Spudmonkey

round tower huntsman wrote: »

reduction in welfare? i take it your not on the dole?
i worked non stop since i left school, 14 yrs plumbing/pipefitting. forced out of work. i've been applying for work in all sectors, min wage stuff industrial cleaning,storeman etc....and i cant get fcuk all. and im trying to keep a house on 240 a week and you want it reduced......GO FCUK YOURSELF.

Do you think the bank will give you a loan to allow you keep the house??

goose2005

after school services, childcare, services for older people, environmental projects and in the improvement of sports and tourist facilities.

So he plans to undercut creches, care workers, cleaning companies and builders. Lovely.

Alwayson wrote: »

I'm unemployed and spend all my time trying to find work. When I do get an interview, I usually have to prepare a presentation as well. This all takes time. While I have nothing against the idea of working for the dole, if I had to work half the week on the proposed scheme, it would probably decrease my chances of getting permanent work.

19.5 hours per week of work still leaves you 92.5 hours per week for finding work - is that not enough??

patwicklow wrote: »

or maybe send them to the 5 star golf clubs to wash up after the bankers/ politicians banquets that they always have.......
well come to new age slavery.like €220 for 19 hours?? and i bet that will be taxed also, what year is this? easy know politicians dont know the price of petrol.

€11.50+ per hour is good money.

metrovelvet

I dont understand. Are they going to have people working for the government? County councils, schools, etc? Or private enterprise too?

Id fire my staff and use dole people. No salaries to pay. No prsi to pay. The government would would pay for my slave labour. And the government would have no tax revenue.

Spudmonkey

goose2005 wrote: »

€11.50+ per hour is good money.

Thats higher than minimum wage is it not? Those on €8.65 must feel like they are getting screwed!!

youcrazyjesus!

I have some reservations but IF it is organised properly it's a good idea. It will cut down on the systematic fraud pretty much everyone who works in the construction trade feels -out of approximately 20 tradesmen I've either employed, met or currently know as acquaintances in the last 2 years is working full time, being paid cash and also collecting the dole, to a man, even those I didn't know well at all happily volunteered this information almost as soon as I met them- they're entitled to commit and will reduce significantly all forms of fraud. This along with the photo ID scheme will reduce the overall dole bill could be cut by 25%. We'll lose out by not getting taxes back on that money when it's spent in the economy but it's still a huge overall saving and will generate some productivity in some.

Hand on heart I'd be delighted to work voluntarily while collecting the dole, it will give people some self respect. Being on the dole is depressing in the mid to long term. Anybody honestly looking for work will react positively to this news imo. As somebody said 500,000 unemployed is a huge resource ready to be tapped.

As long as there's some flexibility there -for example if somebody is minding their children who would otherwise employ child care services when they were working full time they shouldn't be expected to enter the scheme- I'm all for it.

Bottle_of_Smoke

They say it will include childcare/looking after old people. Garda vetting takes months for that

Adyx

caseyann wrote: »

They were warned years ago by economists and they didn't listen,just kept living high life.They didn't even have a saving plan to fall back on,which as a government they should have had in place.And you know why because they never lose out and never have to worry about a bill cause they get paid regardless.

Ordinary Irish people,so what are government gods lol
Ordinary Irish people did not have hold of purse strings of economy;)

Sounds exactly like the people who spent over their heads on property etc.

And you know what I meant about "ordinary people". I'm not saying the government are blameless but I hate this "it's all somebody else's fault" attitude.

The Raven.

Manic Moran

Alwayson does have a point. Ten hours, I could see. It's only a single long day, or two half-days. But the primary focus of a job-seeker should be seeking jobs, not doing community work.

NTM

metrovelvet

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

They say it will include childcare/looking after old people. Garda vetting takes months for that

Who's going to trust unqualified strangers with their kids?

gandalf

As I have said the devil is in the detail with this. Is it just for soundbite spin purposes or does it have some real substance. Only time will tell.

old_aussie

TheReverend wrote: »

I would hate to see people degraded to picking up litter in the street or painting walls to cover up graffiti

And there lies the problem.

What's wrong with having pride in where you live?

dan_d

letmerollit wrote: »

Ya you're not going to argue because you yourself know how idle the unemployed get. After I cleaned the gaff about 100 times and and went to the gym about 100 more times I started getting stir crazy. There is only so much day time TV you can watch like. You're not special and if you're being honest you'd admit you're only making excuses. You can find the time to contribute if you want. Maybe it means not spending all weekend in the pub. Maybe it means changing things around but you make time like.

I can't wait to hear all the excuses from people who are assigned work. I tell you this much if I'm ever out of work again the first thing I am going to do is asked to be put on assignment.

That's pretty insulting.

As a person who is currently unemployed, while I see your point, you need to go easy on generalisations. Personally, I don't watch TV during the day. At all. And I haven't since I was made unemployed about 6 weeks ago. Maybe an hour at night and that's it. I'm currently trying to get volunteer work in a shelter near me and I intend to start language lessons in the next couple of weeks to brush up. I'm learning a musical instrument and will be continuing with that.

I manage to get to the gym about twice a week. I clean the house once a week. And I do my best to fill the time in between, mostly with job hunting or anything else I can think of. Don't assume we're all sitting around watching TV all day and doing nothing - some of us actually have the motivation to avoid that, even if you didn't.Yes I'm bored, yes I'd love work, but in the meantime, while trying to find it, I'm doing the best I can to keep myself busy.As for good honest hard work - I can assure you that what I've been doing for the time I was employed is a clear indication that I'm not afraid of it.

I like the scheme - but I think it needs to be done with time limits. Meaning that it applies to those on the dole for a period of say a year or more. There are actually those of us on it through no fault of our own, trying desperately to find jobs.Having said all that, I don't trust this Government to implement it sensibly - it'll probably just turn out to be another PR stunt.

cavedave

gandalf

btw cavedave ever heard of Godwins law?

I am not comparing anyone to the Nazis. I am saying some work is degrading.

NeuroticMonkey

cavedave wrote: »

Remember this quote the first time we hear a pedophile is put in charge of children

You're just nit-picking in order to shoot down a perfectly logical and well-rounded argument. I'm sure he/she meant that there should not be an excess of emphasis put on people's dare i say snobby view of "demeaning" jobs such as picking up litter. Of course, our fcuk-up of a government will have the good sense of putting some sort of vetting system in place as to who is sent out to work in childcare, won't it??

cavedave

NeuroticMonkey

You're just nit-picking in order to shoot down a perfectly logical and well-rounded argument

If by nitpicking you mean pointing out that actions taken without "any great concern for sensitivity to who it should target or what roles should be performed" by an incompetent government might have unintended consequences then I am nitpicking.

Red_Marauder

gbee wrote: »

It should also have benefits in crime, not only will some of the claimants be active in either black market work or crime, they will come across some crime and vandalism that they or their children will have caused. So if dad has to clean the graffiti off the wall that his son did the night before ... well, I think you get the point.

What?! For the record - anybody can find themselves in need of unemployment assistance. I spent five tough years training in University for a professional degree, and i recently found myself having to go on the Dole (albeit just for a few weeks, having now found work). I signed on with ex teachers, factory staff, single mothers, lawyers, vets, the so called 'unskilled' and the long term unemployed.

Nobody is exempt from the effects of recession; and having been through it, I assure you that people feel bad enough about having to stand in line for dole payments as it is. please do not draw such a seemingly direct correlation between unemployment and criminal behaviour.

dvpower

cavedave wrote: »

If by nitpicking you mean pointing out that actions taken without "any great concern for sensitivity to who it should target or what roles should be performed" by an incompetent government might have unintended consequences then I am nitpicking.

I doubt it would be legal to place people who hadn't been vetted supervising children.

dvpower

Seems like a good idea.
But is it more than a Work For Dole scheme?

The proposals would see participants work 19.5 hours a week and receive around €210 in return.

Unlike those on Jobseeker's Allowance, participants will not be means tested, and they can work part-time outside of the scheme as well.

Does this mean that people will get €210 for 19.5 hours work and a proportional dole payment for the rest of the week?

Nozebleed

if this scheme goes ahead im not going to participate.

If the government want to cut dole payments or stamp out welfare fraud..they should target the those foreign immigrants who contribute nothing to society,people begging on our streets day in day out..they get free housing and contribute nothing..they blatantly refuse to integrate in our society. in the last 10 years the social housing policy in tallaght has turned the area into a ghetto. its a disgrace. the junkies too who potter round out of their minds getting €196 a week to feed their habit. these fcukers should be made scrape the **** off the streets. Im not going to be forced into cheap labour..when these fcukers are getting housing and dole money to feed their habit.

Lemming

This smells of gUBBBERment soundbite to me. I cannot see how this would honestly have a positive impact given

1. unionised workplaces would be up in arms about undercutting. That rules out pretty much every government/semi-state working environment
2. anything childcare/social service related tends to require vetting incurring additional expense/workload not worth the effort for a prospectively transient workforce
3. Metrovelvet raised a very good point about cynical employers effectively using slave labour - which breaches employment law.
4. What sort of flexibility is there for interview availability, given the short-notice at which such interviews are usually scheduled?

Alwayson & MM also have a very good point regarding time. I've been unfortunate enough to be unemployed for longer than 4 days twice in my working history (longest was six weeks - through Feb/march 2009 when the Irish workplace was at its worst for job seekers in IT). Both times I aggressively hunted for new work and upskilled where I thought it pertinent to do so in order to secure new work. That in itself exceeded full-time work.

Forcing recently unemployed folks into such work would decrease their ability to search for new work and you then also have conflict with availability for interview, further hampering both their ability to secure new work AND provide work for whomever it is the person is being made work.

All in all, this would be a complete and utter cluster-f*ck and [sarcasm alert] well done on the inept f*cktarded f*ckwit in government who came up with this absolute brainchild of an idea. I mean, what could possibly go wrong right? Bravo sir/madam/muppet! I doff my hat to you. [/sarcasm alert]