Work for Dole scheme announced

old_aussie

TheReverend wrote: »

I would hate to see people degraded to picking up litter in the street or painting walls to cover up graffiti

And there lies the problem.

What's wrong with having pride in where you live?

dan_d

letmerollit wrote: »

Ya you're not going to argue because you yourself know how idle the unemployed get. After I cleaned the gaff about 100 times and and went to the gym about 100 more times I started getting stir crazy. There is only so much day time TV you can watch like. You're not special and if you're being honest you'd admit you're only making excuses. You can find the time to contribute if you want. Maybe it means not spending all weekend in the pub. Maybe it means changing things around but you make time like.

I can't wait to hear all the excuses from people who are assigned work. I tell you this much if I'm ever out of work again the first thing I am going to do is asked to be put on assignment.

That's pretty insulting.

As a person who is currently unemployed, while I see your point, you need to go easy on generalisations. Personally, I don't watch TV during the day. At all. And I haven't since I was made unemployed about 6 weeks ago. Maybe an hour at night and that's it. I'm currently trying to get volunteer work in a shelter near me and I intend to start language lessons in the next couple of weeks to brush up. I'm learning a musical instrument and will be continuing with that.

I manage to get to the gym about twice a week. I clean the house once a week. And I do my best to fill the time in between, mostly with job hunting or anything else I can think of. Don't assume we're all sitting around watching TV all day and doing nothing - some of us actually have the motivation to avoid that, even if you didn't.Yes I'm bored, yes I'd love work, but in the meantime, while trying to find it, I'm doing the best I can to keep myself busy.As for good honest hard work - I can assure you that what I've been doing for the time I was employed is a clear indication that I'm not afraid of it.

I like the scheme - but I think it needs to be done with time limits. Meaning that it applies to those on the dole for a period of say a year or more. There are actually those of us on it through no fault of our own, trying desperately to find jobs.Having said all that, I don't trust this Government to implement it sensibly - it'll probably just turn out to be another PR stunt.

cavedave

gandalf

btw cavedave ever heard of Godwins law?

I am not comparing anyone to the Nazis. I am saying some work is degrading.

NeuroticMonkey

cavedave wrote: »

Remember this quote the first time we hear a pedophile is put in charge of children

You're just nit-picking in order to shoot down a perfectly logical and well-rounded argument. I'm sure he/she meant that there should not be an excess of emphasis put on people's dare i say snobby view of "demeaning" jobs such as picking up litter. Of course, our fcuk-up of a government will have the good sense of putting some sort of vetting system in place as to who is sent out to work in childcare, won't it??

cavedave

NeuroticMonkey

You're just nit-picking in order to shoot down a perfectly logical and well-rounded argument

If by nitpicking you mean pointing out that actions taken without "any great concern for sensitivity to who it should target or what roles should be performed" by an incompetent government might have unintended consequences then I am nitpicking.

Red_Marauder

gbee wrote: »

It should also have benefits in crime, not only will some of the claimants be active in either black market work or crime, they will come across some crime and vandalism that they or their children will have caused. So if dad has to clean the graffiti off the wall that his son did the night before ... well, I think you get the point.

What?! For the record - anybody can find themselves in need of unemployment assistance. I spent five tough years training in University for a professional degree, and i recently found myself having to go on the Dole (albeit just for a few weeks, having now found work). I signed on with ex teachers, factory staff, single mothers, lawyers, vets, the so called 'unskilled' and the long term unemployed.

Nobody is exempt from the effects of recession; and having been through it, I assure you that people feel bad enough about having to stand in line for dole payments as it is. please do not draw such a seemingly direct correlation between unemployment and criminal behaviour.

dvpower

cavedave wrote: »

If by nitpicking you mean pointing out that actions taken without "any great concern for sensitivity to who it should target or what roles should be performed" by an incompetent government might have unintended consequences then I am nitpicking.

I doubt it would be legal to place people who hadn't been vetted supervising children.

dvpower

Seems like a good idea.
But is it more than a Work For Dole scheme?

The proposals would see participants work 19.5 hours a week and receive around €210 in return.

Unlike those on Jobseeker's Allowance, participants will not be means tested, and they can work part-time outside of the scheme as well.

Does this mean that people will get €210 for 19.5 hours work and a proportional dole payment for the rest of the week?

Nozebleed

if this scheme goes ahead im not going to participate.

If the government want to cut dole payments or stamp out welfare fraud..they should target the those foreign immigrants who contribute nothing to society,people begging on our streets day in day out..they get free housing and contribute nothing..they blatantly refuse to integrate in our society. in the last 10 years the social housing policy in tallaght has turned the area into a ghetto. its a disgrace. the junkies too who potter round out of their minds getting €196 a week to feed their habit. these fcukers should be made scrape the **** off the streets. Im not going to be forced into cheap labour..when these fcukers are getting housing and dole money to feed their habit.

Lemming

This smells of gUBBBERment soundbite to me. I cannot see how this would honestly have a positive impact given

1. unionised workplaces would be up in arms about undercutting. That rules out pretty much every government/semi-state working environment
2. anything childcare/social service related tends to require vetting incurring additional expense/workload not worth the effort for a prospectively transient workforce
3. Metrovelvet raised a very good point about cynical employers effectively using slave labour - which breaches employment law.
4. What sort of flexibility is there for interview availability, given the short-notice at which such interviews are usually scheduled?

Alwayson & MM also have a very good point regarding time. I've been unfortunate enough to be unemployed for longer than 4 days twice in my working history (longest was six weeks - through Feb/march 2009 when the Irish workplace was at its worst for job seekers in IT). Both times I aggressively hunted for new work and upskilled where I thought it pertinent to do so in order to secure new work. That in itself exceeded full-time work.

Forcing recently unemployed folks into such work would decrease their ability to search for new work and you then also have conflict with availability for interview, further hampering both their ability to secure new work AND provide work for whomever it is the person is being made work.

All in all, this would be a complete and utter cluster-f*ck and [sarcasm alert] well done on the inept f*cktarded f*ckwit in government who came up with this absolute brainchild of an idea. I mean, what could possibly go wrong right? Bravo sir/madam/muppet! I doff my hat to you. [/sarcasm alert]

dvpower

Nozebleed wrote: »

if this scheme goes ahead im not going to participate.

I'm not sure it will be optional.
You will either participate or they will cut your payments.

Diom

This needs to be applied only to volunteer openings. If that caveat is not followed it will cause cannibalisation of the job market. The people in charge of these placements should only allow placements with non-profit organisations.

People who are long term unemployed should be the first to be placed as well, focusing on the chronic societal leeches. With regard to parents, of course a schedule can be worked out to suit them. They can work while their children are at school can they not?

Otherwise the only real alternative is to create public jobs by instigating public infrastructure works. The key caveat for this should a legally binding clause to only use this kind of labor where the project would not have been affordable otherwise, and only when the infrastructure project will be of proven long term value (let's avoid famine works). Otherwise we will again cannabalise that sector.

dvpower

Lemming wrote: »

Forcing recently unemployed folks into such work would decrease their ability to search for new work and you then also have conflict with availability for interview, further hampering both their ability to secure new work AND provide work for whomever it is the person is being made work.

I can't imagine this would be tagetted at those on Job Seekers Benefit. That's an 'earned' payment.

I'd also imagine that there would be great flexibility for getting off work for interviews. If there were sceanarios where people couldn't take up regular employment because they couldn't get sufficient time off, it would just bring the scheme into disrepute.

Lemming

dvpower wrote: »

I can't imagine this would be tagetted at those on Job Seekers Benefit. That's an 'earned' payment.

I can't imagine someone not understanding the budgetary question of 'income < expenses' not being something that needs addressed immediately; yet there would appear to be many in government/union circles who do not grasp that. My point is that given the track record of our "government", I really have zero faith in their ability to not screw this up badly and cost the state even more money whilst screwing up the lives of those recently unemployed further than they already have (in so much as they have mismanaged the economy).

I'd also imagine that there would be great flexibility for getting off work for interviews. If there were sceanarios where people couldn't take up regular employment because they couldn't get sufficient time off, it would just bring the scheme into disrepute.

TBH, telling people they are required to work for their dole whilst also saying they can have flexible time to go find work just isn't terribly compatible once you scratch the surface of it at a fundamental level. The person wanting the work done is going to get annoyed because they have workers with unreliable/unmanagable attendance and unlikely to participate in the scheme for much longer as a result since the work simply isn't getting done or done to a satisfactory level. The scheme, by its very nature, should want to get people off the list and back into employment asap, so is unlikely to be actively policed or managable.

maynooth_rules

Im sure we call all name many people in whatever towns we live in, who have never worked and payed tax, yet are somehow just given short of €200 a week. They go straight to the local supermarket and buy whatever beer is on special offer and piss away every penny they have got from the taxpayer on beer. These are the waste of spaces that need to be forced to work in some capacity. Go after these people, not the carpenter that has worked since he was 16 and has found himself in hard times the last year

Callan57

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Im sure we call all name many people in whatever towns we live in, who have never worked and payed tax, yet are somehow just given short of €200 a week. They go straight to the local supermarket and buy whatever beer is on special offer and piss away every penny they have got from the taxpayer on beer. These are the waste of spaces that need to be forced to work in some capacity. Go after these people, not the carpenter that has worked since he was 16 and has found himself in hard times the last year

Agree with you but I have a problem with your sympathy for this mythical carpenter the same carpenter who has probably been on EUR1,000+ a week for the last few years & probably a lot of it 'cash in hand' ... my sympathy for him is somewhat stretched. The new work proposal may restrict his ability to operate in the black economy while claiming benefit all right and therefore might actually protect the jobs of the few still in jobs.

Manic Preacher

If it's done on a voluntary basis it could work. If they try and force people then it will go horribly wrong.

maynooth_rules

Callan57 wrote: »

Agree with you but I have a problem with your sympathy for this mythical carpenter the same carpenter who has probably been on EUR1,000+ a week for the last few years & probably a lot of it 'cash in hand' ... my sympathy for him is somewhat stretched. The new work proposal may restrict his ability to operate in the black economy while claiming benefit all right and therefore might actually protect the jobs of the few still in jobs.

Maybe a bad example with a carpenter, what about using my own example. A teacher who cant get a look in this year after spending 4 tough years in college (with no grants), working 3 years and paying lots in taxes, and now find myself unemployed and looking at emigration:(

Yitzhak Rabin

Manic Preacher wrote: »

If it's done on a voluntary basis it could work. If they try and force people then it will go horribly wrong.

If its voluntary, then surely it will fail to target those people it is intended to target. Obviously if it is voluntary, the chronically unemployed, will not bother to sign up, and those that are genuinely seeking jobs will.

It should be mandatory, but flexible.

Our man in Havana

This will only be used against urban based benefit claimants. The rural based people will not be targeted. The government are not going to provide transport from the arse end of no where to get the claimants to the place of the work.

Lemming

Haddockman wrote: »

This will only be used against urban based benefit claimants. The rural based people will not be targeted.

Brian(s)? is that you?

Look, I know you have a soft spot for Offaly and all and that you'd bribe them with anything to keep yourself in power, but seriously ... this wont do the credibility of your half-arsed, conceived-whilst-blind-drunk plan much good when the peon masses see one rule for the rural and another rule for the rest of them.

jos22

Unions to oppose work-for-dole plan Mr Begg’s letter states: “Trade unions will vigorously oppose mandatory participation and ‘workfare’ schemes that are more about punishing unemployed than helping them.” full story @ irishtimes http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0901/1224277975155.html

xp90

What is this dole you speak of my friend?
And how do I get it?
Your friend, Prakhabar!

Grumpypants

The problem is it will be the new unemployed that will be forced into this work, many of them will be quite happy to be doing something but these are the same people who will pick up work anyway once the economy picks up. The long term unemployed wont do it and if they are forced will cause havok for the people trying to manage them in this new work place.

A good example is when i wass up signing on yesterday a guy walked in didnt queue up just walked up to the counter started shouting at the guy behind that this was where he signs on all the time and he wasnt queuing up again ( he didnt in the first place) swore and balled at the guy behind the counter then that guys supervisor and then the security untill they went and got his card and signed it for him for a easy life. The guy then walked out laughing at everyone queuing up hopped into his 2010 transit van and drove off. I see this almost everytime i have to sign on.

Its not this guy that will be forced to work as they dont want the hassle they will pick an easy target.

If they made the program work for 30 hours and get 300 euro a week then they would be getting nearly a full weeks work for 110 euro extra it would get the country cleaned up and give the people who wanted to take up this option a liveable wage. as many of the new unemployed have mortgages and dont get any help towards that unlike people getting rent allowance on top of their dole.

guineapig1975

This misconception that the dole is money for nothing is maddening. Lots of people on the dole have paid PRSI whilst employed which qualifies them for social welfare payment. Not everyone on the dole is a scrounger. Also, we live in a socialist society. If you don't like it, move to the U.S.

So let's point out a few things to those who've probably never been on the dole in their lives.

• Not everyone on the dole is lazy. My partner and I are unemployed but we get up with the sun and are keeping busy and active while looking for work and trying to sell our house.
• The dole is not free money.
• I'm sure some people on the system are fiddling it.
• People in receipt of unemployment benefit are not automatically depressed or lacking in motivation. It's a coverall stigma afforded them by those who obviously know not of what they speak.
• A job does not define a person, humanity does. Humanity transcends employment.
• While we continue to squabble among ourselves, the fat cats up in the Dail rub their bellies and drink more of our life blood while bailing out their banker pals with taxpayers' money.

Does anyone else smell a red herring? Methinks the government is testing the water to see how the idea flies with the populace. Otherwise why no details about when it's starting, who's going to be on it etc...?

If you are outraged, then stop talking on here and email Eamon O'Cuiv at:
info@eamonocuiv.ie

I've already sent two emails and plan to send one every day until this mad idea is scrapped in favour of more realistic, long term plans.

Think people! Use your brains! It's the only thing they can't take away from u

feicim

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

According to RTE, a new work for dole scheme has been announced where claimants will have to work 19.5hr/wk in the community in order to claim benefits. While I can see the advantages to such a scheme, I can also see the negative side. Will it take jobs away from other people? Will it make it harder for the long term unemployed to get jobs or will a new underclass of community workers develop, getting by on a meagre €210 a week?

link:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0829/welfare.html

At face value it kind of sounds like a good idea, but I don't think this will work somehow.

It appears to me to be a soothing soundbite thrown to the section of PAYE workers who begrudge the social welfare system and also maybe timed to take a bit of focus off all the bank crap thats going on.

The ones the government are hoping to catch out will simply switch over to disability payment instead or something like that.

If this is the intent of this scheme surely there are better ways than this to achieve this goal?

It smacks of a modern day version of "folly" building during famine times.

Also forcing people to carry out duties that are handed down in court as punishment for committing crimes is a tad contentious.

Is unemployment now perceived as some sort of crime?

It sounds like a load of bullshít to be honest. Can't see it happening.

Our man in Havana

Is unemployment now perceived as some sort of crime?

You are on the money there. The unemployed are now being likened to criminals.

feicim

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

It will cut down on the systematic fraud pretty much everyone who works in the construction trade feels -out of approximately 20 tradesmen I've either employed, met or currently know as acquaintances in the last 2 years is working full time, being paid cash and also collecting the dole, to a man, even those I didn't know well at all happily volunteered this information almost as soon as I met them- they're entitled to commit and will reduce significantly all forms of fraud.

Had it crossed your mind that these guys will just rearrange their schedule around the 19.5 hours.:rolleyes:

Overheal

Haddockman wrote: »

You are on the money there. The unemployed are now being likened to criminals.

True. I have steadily observed a growing sentiment among working conservatives in which they view the unemployed as thieves.

This idea seems very, very Communist. Not to apply the slippery slope argument but how long is it until the country collapses in on itself? Increasing numbers of people forced onto the Dole and essentially all employed by the state for €220/week.

I can understand trying to filter out complete wasters from people who actually want to work (those that can't find jobs that pay any better than the Dole - which itself is an issue that's between a rock and a hard place) but ultimately that's what it stinks of. Through their own ineptitude they ultimately created the jobless situation and now they are implementing this plan that will essentially buy back those workers for 20 hours/week for free (because they're already being paid Dole); a fraction of what they would have made if the government didn't wreck the country.

So they're either really evil, or really stupid and haven't thought this out. I shall assume the latter.

The Raven.

Overheal wrote: »

True. I have steadily observed a growing sentiment among working conservatives in which they view the unemployed as thieves.

That definitely seems to be the trend.

This idea seems very, very Communist. Not to apply the slippery slope argument but how long is it until the country collapses in on itself? Increasing numbers of people forced onto the Dole and essentially all employed by the state for €220/week.

I can understand trying to filter out complete wasters from people who actually want to work (those that can't find jobs that pay any better than the Dole - which itself is an issue that's between a rock and a hard place) but ultimately that's what it stinks of. Through their own ineptitude they ultimately created the jobless situation and now they are implementing this plan that will essentially buy back those workers for 20 hours/week for free (because they're already being paid Dole); a fraction of what they would have made if the government didn't wreck the country.

Well said! I don't know why some people can't see this for what it is. The Fianna Fail politicians must be rolling on the floor laughing at how they easily they have managed pulled the wool over peoples' eyes with this one.

So they're either really evil, or really stupid and haven't thought this out. I shall assume the latter.

I would say stupid, incompetent and callous.

Wertz

TheReverend wrote: »

I have already posted this on the IE forum, as long as this is done fairly (target long term users of the dole who have never worked a day in their life first) then it could be a good idea. Also give people a choice where they work, let them choose from other things such as animal shelters and such. I would hate to see people degraded to picking up litter in the street or painting walls to cover up graffiti

I'd agree with this. In reality though it'll never be done fairly.
This is (in all but name) to apply to ex-construction workers only....those that have only ever done construction and whose employment prospects are shot.
By implmeneting a scheme like this, you get these guys (and girls) off the dole, off the live register and into employment similar if not identical to what they used to get paid €600+ to do....you also block many claimants from operating within the black economy, making them do 4-5 hrs a day, stopping them from working for cash-in-hand.
To hear accountants and those with degrees whining about the possibility of doing manual labour, on Liveline the other day was laughable...these "professionals" won't be put out sweeping streets or painting walls (unless they realy want to) and neither will the lazy bastards that sat on their arse throughout the boom years...this is solely to address one section of the unemployed...

BTW as someone who relies on painting as my source of income (and with no dole entitlement) the thought of being undercut by such a scheme is fairly off putting I have to say...of course it will be argued that it is unlikely that the work being undertaken would ever have been paid for by a cash strapped government/local body.

The only thing this has going fopr it is the debate it generates...even if they manage to get it to work, it still only addresses 10K people...that figure has been added to the dole queues in the last 3-4 months...

guineapig1975

Wertz wrote: »

I'd agree with this. In reality though it'll never be done fairly.
This is (in all but name) to apply to ex-construction workers only....those that have only ever done construction and whose employment prospects are shot.

To hear accountants and those with degrees whining about the possibility of doing manual labour, on Liveline the other day was laughable...these "professionals" won't be put out sweeping streets or painting walls (unless they realy want to) and neither will the lazy bastards that sat on their arse throughout the boom years...this is solely to address one section of the unemployed...

Are accountants/those with degrees not right to whine about being forced to do these jobs? After all, they went to college (and were encouraged by the government to do so) and learned all about their chosen profession and didn't expect to be punished for being unemployed by being forced to be "State Workers". (Incidentally, if they were previously employed in their chosen field, they will have paid PRSI which qualifies them to receive social welfare payments string-free)

This free-for-all attitude from people who have jobs that those on the dole deserve to be treated like second class citizens must stop. Yes, some people on the dole are scum but they were scum anyway. Being in receipt of welfare does not define a person, their actions do.

And where do you get your info that this scheme will be discriminatory? As far as I can tell there have been no real details published about the scheme, even on Eamon O'Cuiv's website. These 10,000 people on the initial scheme will probably be plucked from a hat.

I don't have a problem with people being in favour of this scheme, what I have a problem with is that they don't know WHY they're in favour of it.

If you have any questions or issues with this then you should be emailing O'Cuiv here: info@eamonocuiv.ie

I've already emailed him three times and plan to email him every day until this mess is sorted out.

Think people! Use your brains! It's the only thing they can't take from us.

Wertz

guineapig1975 wrote: »

Are accountants/those with degrees not right to whine about being forced to do these jobs?

Of course they're right...my point is that they won't be doing those jobs (but don't think that they mightn't be doing some part time work for some government body to earn their dole in the future), this will solely be laid on the backs of recently unemployed construction sector workers...for the reasons I mentioned in the other post.

guineapig1975 wrote:

After all, they went to college (and were encouraged by the government to do so) and learned all about their chosen profession and didn't expect to be punished for being unemployed by being forced to be "State Workers". (Incidentally, if they were previously employed in their chosen field, they will have paid PRSI which qualifies them to receive social welfare payments string-free)

Well aware of all of that thanks.

guineapig1975 wrote:

This free-for-all attitude from people who have jobs that those on the dole deserve to be treated like second class citizens must stop. Yes, some people on the dole are scum but they were scum anyway. Being in receipt of welfare does not define a person, their actions do.

Well aware of that too and at no point did I suggest that someone on the dole is a criminal... spent a fair while on the dole in the mid 90's before I got so fed up with it that I went on a CES and went on to learn my trade.

guineapig1975 wrote:

And where do you get your info that this scheme will be discriminatory? As far as I can tell there have been no real details published about the scheme, even on Eamon O'Cuiv's website. These 10,000 people on the initial scheme will probably be plucked from a hat.

I'm reading between the lines and basing my assumptions on the past actions of this FF cabinet...it will obviously be discriminatory...everything else this government does is...
Perceived problem plus targetted solution. Actual problem missed due to narrow targetting.

guineapig1975 wrote:

I don't have a problem with people being in favour of this scheme, what I have a problem with is that they don't know WHY they're in favour of it.
If you have any questions or issues with this then you should be emailing O'Cuiv here: info@eamonocuiv.ie

I've already emailed him three times and plan to email him every day until this mess is sorted out.

Think people! Use your brains! It's the only thing they can't take from us.

To hell with O Cuiv...you think those idiots read your emails? lol
Fairplay though, at least you're trying...

Shelli2

letmerollit wrote: »

This would also be a great way to put people back to work. Construction workers and those who hold a safe pass could work 19.5 hours a week building. Prisons, roads, schools...

.

goose2005 wrote: »

So he plans to undercut creches, care workers, cleaning companies and builders. Lovely.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

They say it will include childcare/looking after old people. Garda vetting takes months for that

All the above industries may as well wave goodbye to any chance of increasing employment ever again if the government are going to fill the void with people one the dole.....basically creating a whole new problem. No-one will train or choose to go into these industries, eventually the current generation, who will have been essentially trapped on the dole, will get too old or get fed up and retrain, and we'll have no builders, no childcare workers, no care for the elderly, and no cleaners???

Alwayson

Imagine the proposal gets implemented. There's a randomly selected team of 6 unemployed people weeding a graveyard listening to The Pretenders "Back on the Chain Gang". Assume these 6 people represent a cross section of society - say an unemployed consultant, a tradesman, a serial dole claimer, a graduate, somebody just out of prison etc. A bit like the characters in Fair City. Assume there is no rotation and they work together for a number of months. Inevitably what will happen is it will become like a job, a routine, people will get to know each other, characters will emerge, leaders may emerge. Everyone ends up in a familiar comfort zone, whinging about the government, swopping "you think that's bad" stories. This is going to have the effect of dumbing people down, not empowering them. Some kind of dependency will form. The Eagles are on the radio singing "You can check out any time you like but you can never leave". Welcome to the Republic of Limboland.

FreudianSlippers

They should be made do some work in an area which somehow correlates to their skills. Something new to put on the CV for the next job interview. Let's face it, if they don't have a job now and cannot get one anywhere in the country then obviously their CV needs a facelift.

In all seriousness though, I think this is a great idea but perhaps only for those that have been claiming the dole for an extended and excess period of time.

peasant

The governement should give those 210 Euro a week to any employer who is creating a new job for someone currently unemployed and working for more than 20 hours per week.

Give it as a employers PAYE/PRSI credit for a fixed period (say six months) to be repayed in case the new employee gets made redundant before 12 months are over.

That would be money well spent.

guineapig1975

Wertz wrote: »

To hell with O Cuiv...you think those idiots read your emails? lol
Fairplay though, at least you're trying...

Already had two replies and they're now forwarding my emails to the dublin office of O'Cuiv as I'm not in his constituency. They'll now get two emails a day.

pog it

guineapig1975 wrote: »

Think people! Use your brains! It's the only thing they can't take away from u

Really ?

Sadly, I spoke with someone yesterday who told me about this scheme and who could be described as a disgruntled PAYE worker who would get great satisfaction out of seeing people out on the street cleaning the streets for their dole- and this is someone in a cushy civil service job who has never had to get out there and find a job in the private sector and constantly complains about their 35euro an hour pay.

I REALLY hope this type of person is in the minority.

guineapig1975

OisinT wrote: »

Let's face it, if they don't have a job now and cannot get one anywhere in the country then obviously their CV needs a facelift.

Are you kidding me? Are you saying then that whenever there are no jobs available that utilise your qualifications or skills, you should then retrain or do monkey work for the governmen?

Okay, so I've trained for eight years to be an architect, but wait a minute, there are no jobs, my CV obviously needs a facelift. Think I'll train to be an accountant. Three years later, no jobs available, think my CV needs a facelift. Think I'll retrain as a counsellor and on and on...

Come on. Think before you make statements like that.

And don't forget, this is what the government want. They want us divided over this topic and distracted by it so we don't see that massive gaps where policy and action should be.

Don't let them distract you. Keep emailing your minister to register your outrage at the state of the country. After all, they work for you.

Peace:D

FreudianSlippers

guineapig1975 wrote: »

Are you kidding me? Are you saying then that whenever there are no jobs available that utilise your qualifications or skills, you should then retrain or do monkey work for the governmen?

Okay, so I've trained for eight years to be an architect, but wait a minute, there are no jobs, my CV obviously needs a facelift. Think I'll train to be an accountant. Three years later, no jobs available, think my CV needs a facelift. Think I'll retrain as a counsellor and on and on...

Come on. Think before you make statements like that.

And don't forget, this is what the government want. They want us divided over this topic and distracted by it so we don't see that massive gaps where policy and action should be.

Don't let them distract you. Keep emailing your minister to register your outrage at the state of the country. After all, they work for you.

Peace:D

Who said anything about retraining? Clearly reading was not something in your training to be an architect and an accountant

I said that some sort of work in an area in which they are already trained would be good. Everyone knows that long periods of unemployment looks worse on a CV than saying "yeah, I as on the dole but did work during that time to earn my dole doing xyz (work balancing the books for a local community centre, drawing up plans for an extension to said community centre...etc.)"

I don't know what these people are going to be doing, but yeah I think people collecting the dole for extended periods of time ought to do some sort of work during that time.

guineapig1975

pog it wrote: »

Really ?

Sadly, I spoke with someone yesterday who told me about this scheme and who could be described as a disgruntled PAYE worker who would get great satisfaction out of seeing people out on the street cleaning the streets for their dole- and this is someone in a cushy civil service job who has never had to get out there and find a job in the private sector and constantly complains about their 35euro an hour pay.

I REALLY hope this type of person is in the minority.

Judging from the comments on here, I think they are. But there is very strong feeling on both sides about this argument. And I think it's one that will rage for quite some time leaving the government breathing space while the riff-raff squabble amongst themselves.

Sigh...

Overheal

guineapig1975 wrote: »

Okay, so I've trained for eight years to be an architect, but wait a minute, there are no jobs, my CV obviously needs a facelift. Think I'll train to be an accountant. Three years later, no jobs available, think my CV needs a facelift. Think I'll retrain as a counsellor and on and on...

"We're sorry but you're over-qualified for the position..."

guineapig1975

Just to set the record straight, I'm not actually an architect. I was merely using it as an example...:)

Overheal

Oh... then you're not qualified at all for the position. Sorry!

goose2005

Alwayson wrote: »

Imagine the proposal gets implemented. There's a randomly selected team of 6 unemployed people weeding a graveyard listening to The Pretenders "Back on the Chain Gang". Assume these 6 people represent a cross section of society - say an unemployed consultant, a tradesman, a serial dole claimer, a graduate, somebody just out of prison etc. A bit like the characters in Fair City. Assume there is no rotation and they work together for a number of months. Inevitably what will happen is it will become like a job, a routine, people will get to know each other, characters will emerge, leaders may emerge. Everyone ends up in a familiar comfort zone, whinging about the government, swopping "you think that's bad" stories. This is going to have the effect of dumbing people down, not empowering them. Some kind of dependency will form. The Eagles are on the radio singing "You can check out any time you like but you can never leave". Welcome to the Republic of Limboland.

Sound like The Breakfast Club II.